Board 8 > Simpsons mafia Redemption Topic 4 Old Man Yells at the Clouds

(+) Yeah! (+)

htaeD posted...

I asked him this too and he said that he didnt tell Ulti about the track

So it's just an overall poor use of the track rather than an actively detrimental one. Swell.

Meanwhile, if both are town I'm sure Ulti is patting himself on the back somewhere for wasting one of our town actions just to confirm his vanilla ass. What a spectacularly inefficient usage of town resources.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

No one was asking you to CLAIM YOUR ROLE though. Not a single person. I still don't understand why you did reading it back. Your only two votes were me and Lopen and all we cared was for you to offer the most meaningless piece of information. And when you stubbornly refused to do that we pressed you on it, but still just for that small tidbit, not the entire damn role.

And then to say you "got me" after still makes me question if the vigi claim wasn't fake.

I dont remember the exact exchanges but i know i give 0 shits about flavor and your hyperfocus on it was something i was continually toying with.

changmas posted...

would be funny if FD wasnt talking about himself

Oh that would be hilarious, but alas my streak of only town roles continues.

Leafeon13N posted...

I dont remember the exact exchanges but i know i give 0 shits about flavor

So then why not reveal the thing you "give 0 shits about"?

Why reveal something ACTUALLY IMPORTANT that we DIDNT EVEN WHAT TO KNOW??

Your explanation STILL doesn't make sense.

Also you (supposedly) revealed your role of Vigilant. But not your renamed role.

So what is the actual role you have that possess the functions of vigilant red? Surely there's no harm in providing that now that you've given the proper role?

I still feel like FDs vibes are off a bit

but he does tend to hyperfixate on super tiny things like this

I don't see how this is hyperfixaction.

We might as well have asked red if his flavor was male or female or some similar question that clearly was not going to ultimately have bearing on the flavor split and his response might as well have been "fuck no".

And then completely without prompting he reveals what he purports to be his actual role??

And I'm wrong for being upset about that? I didn't WANT him to drop his role for absolutely no reason. I just wanted an answer to the other question! He's the one who escalated things for a reason I still don't think has been properly articulated.

I also want him to confirm whether or not he has a renamed role.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I don't see how this is hyperfixaction.

We might as well have asked red if his flavor was male or female or some similar question that clearly was not going to ultimately have bearing on the flavor split and his response might as well have been "fuck no".

And then completely without prompting he reveals what he purports to be his actual role??

And I'm wrong for being upset about that? I didn't WANT him to drop his role for absolutely no reason. I just wanted an answer to the other question! He's the one who escalated things for a reason I still don't think has been properly articulated.

I also want him to confirm whether or not he has a renamed role.

does it actually matter for his alignment or do you just want more info

Chaeix posted...

does it actually matter for his alignment or do you just want more info

I think it is relevant, yes.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Can we please squash whatever this is? Privately post game if necessary. Seriously, I like playing games with you but youre always mad at me about something and it makes me not want to bother.

You seem to think this is me bringing in previous game baggage. It isn't.

This is me reacting to your play from THIS specific game.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I think it is relevant, yes.

in what way, exactly?

Chaeix posted...

in what way, exactly?

His answer affects my willingness to elaborate. There is a possibility being overlooked and since red has already claimed his functional role he should have no problem confirming whether or not he has a renamed role to go with it.

The only thing Red is guilty of is having a questionable, non-Simpsons meme sense of humour I think.

Mzero's FD approach felt really arbitrary. Mechanical. Like he was just checking a box. I don't know if he's going to catch up more thoroughly but right now it really feels like choosing FD and working backwards to support that, lazy in that "Mzero will never win as scum, but he will always last 3-4 days out of apathy" way.

While I do think Red is town based off his responses and actions lining up well, I think FD's question is worth answering. Not that Red of all people will comply, but it'd be nice to have an answer.

Especially if, as Ben purports, Mafia knows something about these renamed roles that we townies don't.

Anyway, I'm beginning to see more of Town Lea coming through. Maybe she's a third-party that switches alignment every day, so she was scum on D1 but now she's town on D2.
Before anyone takes that seriously, I'm joking.

With the scumpool thinning out, I'm in favor of lynching Isquen or MZero now. I don't think they were good D1 lynches, but with more info on the table about every player thus far, Isquen and MZero are still enigmas.

##Vote: MZero

Just to spice things up from the classic D2 Isquen lynch.

That's ridiculous. I was town D1 and I'm scum today. But you know what, sure. If Mzero is scum and lives to day four I'm part of the very problem I mock.

##unvote

##vote: Mzero

Gonna need some non-FD thoughts there eh bud (please)

Whatever, red probably screwed up his sleeping schedule again and I don't want to wait.

I think what we're overlooking is that Wallz' renamed flavor doesn't really seem to fit what we've seen so far. They've all been rather generally descriptive of the character and not particularly related to the role. Unsuccessful businessman is confirmed. Average Joes, Naive Neighbor and Old Man are claimed. Those 4 are all attached to vanilla sure, but the thing linking them is that they really just generally address the character itself and don't tie into the vanilla-ness.

And then we have "Kidnapper" for Fat Tony? With a role that just happens to closely match what a Scum Kidnapper might do?

I could see scum day 1 thinking "we know the flavor split is Simpsons vs the rest, but we could get someone to claim a flavor they believe is miller-ish because it's a literal mafia member" and then tying themselves to that Fat Tony role (despite actually being a Simpson). And then they learn that town roles are all renamed, but what luck! Fat Tony is an actual criminal so you can just say 'sure he probably kidnaps people, we'll say the renamed role is kidnapper!'.

But wouldn't a more fitting rename for Fat Tony have just been "Mob Boss" or "Mafiaso"? Or something that fits the trend of generally describing the character? It would be our first instance of the renamed role actually describing the role and I for one am not sold.

This goes against the good credit I wanted to give wallz for participating in the Ctes lynch, but what he is claiming is functionally out of sync with what we currently know about renamed roles and is a conceivably logical attempt to have been made by a scum team that was aware of the flavor split but not aware of the renamed roles.

##Vote: Wallz

(P.S. Why does this topic show me having a previous vote down on Death? I never voted Death, but I previously voted Ulti before later unvoting)

Oh I see Mzero things are happening. I don't oppose that necessarily, but I'd also like to hear thoughts my my expanded wallz theorizing.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Whatever, red probably screwed up his sleeping schedule again and I don't want to wait.

I think what we're overlooking is that Wallz' renamed flavor doesn't really seem to fit what we've seen so far. They've all been rather generally descriptive of the character and not particularly related to the role. Unsuccessful businessman is confirmed. Average Joes, Naive Neighbor and Old Man are claimed. Those 4 are all attached to vanilla sure, but the thing linking them is that they really just generally address the character itself and don't tie into the vanilla-ness.

And then we have "Kidnapper" for Fat Tony? With a role that just happens to closely match what a Scum Kidnapper might do?

I could see scum day 1 thinking "we know the flavor split is Simpsons vs the rest, but we could get someone to claim a flavor they believe is miller-ish because it's a literal mafia member" and then tying themselves to that Fat Tony role (despite actually being a Simpson). And then they learn that town roles are all renamed, but what luck! Fat Tony is an actual criminal so you can just say 'sure he probably kidnaps people, we'll say the renamed role is kidnapper!'.

But wouldn't a more fitting rename for Fat Tony have just been "Mob Boss" or "Mafiaso"? Or something that fits the trend of generally describing the character? It would be our first instance of the renamed role actually describing the role and I for one am not sold.

This goes against the good credit I wanted to give wallz for participating in the Ctes lynch, but what he is claiming is functionally out of sync with what we currently know about renamed roles and is a conceivably logical attempt to have been made by a scum team that was aware of the flavor split but not aware of the renamed roles.

##Vote: Wallz

(P.S. Why does this topic show me having a previous vote down on Death? I never voted Death, but I previously voted Ulti before later unvoting)

Didn't he say it was mob boss day 1?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Those 4 are all attached to vanilla sure, but the thing linking them is that they really just generally address the character itself and don't tie into the vanilla-ness.

can you give me a few examples of little quips for a character that would tie into their vanilla-ness?

i feel like those on the whole kind of do suggest being vanilla

Thought he said his role was a Miller cuz his flavor said he was a mob boss of mafia boss or something.

I'll check. but this is the clarified claim T3 P306

wallmasterz posted...

I am Fat Tony, town kidnapper. I am kidnapper in name only, and my role actually works as a one-night neighborizer and tracker. My role pm paints it as Tony kidnapping another player to interrogate them and then letting them go, but following them. As of d2 starting I cannot continue chatting with Ulti, tracking Ulti or neighbor anyone new in future nights. I am essentially vanilla now.

The problem to me is kidnapper generally removes someone from the night completely. He is saying it was a neighborizer and follower but isn't it just more likely it was a kidnap and thus ulti was unable to move or be targeted. Hence ulti didn't move? My question to ulti would have been if he tried to move but he says he is vanilla now. My next question would have been if wallz knew he couldn't move supposedly anymore before coming here to claim.

The reason this concerns me is because if it's actually a normal kidnap then it doesn't confirm ulti couldn't have gone somewhere if he wanted to like him saying he tracked him nowhere suggests. If he tracked him nowhere, ulti looks to be town. Unlikely he didn't move night 1 if scum.

But if he is lying about details then that is no longer in ultis favor and my question becomes why lie about this detail.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I'll check. but this is the clarified claim T3 P306

It was day 1

T1P57

wallmasterz posted...

If I saw my flavor and role without the alignment next to it I wouldve thought Im scum.

Ultis claim also falls into this kinda miller territory. I dont have a strong feeling about Ulti yet other than knowing I dont want to spend another day 1 hyper focused on Ultis role.

T1P268 !!

wallmasterz posted...

I have never seen a Simpsons ep with my character in it, so I dont know just how miller-ish or not is my flavor. Im not a Simpson.

My role is harmless but has a name that suggests otherwise. I do think my flavor and role both work as foils to a potential flavor or role cop.

Why did wallz feel the need to include this?

T1P290

wallmasterz posted...

Being a literal member of the Springfield mafia.

T1P294

wallmasterz posted...

If theres a town flavor cop they dont know the split right now either, so I fail to see your point

I am Fat Tony, boss of the Springfield mafia. Does being mafia sound like town flavor or mafia flavor

Corrik7 posted...

The problem to me is kidnapper generally removes someone from the night completely. He is saying it was a neighborizer and follower but isn't it just more likely it was a kidnap and thus ulti was unable to move or be targeted. Hence ulti didn't move? My question to ulti would have been if he tried to move but he says he is vanilla now. My next question would have been if wallz knew he couldn't move supposedly anymore before coming here to claim.

The reason this concerns me is because if it's actually a normal kidnap then it doesn't confirm ulti couldn't have gone somewhere if he wanted to like him saying he tracked him nowhere suggests. If he tracked him nowhere, ulti looks to be town. Unlikely he didn't move night 1 if scum.

But if he is lying about details then that is no longer in ultis favor and my question becomes why lie about this detail.

MafiaU just makes it seem more like a scum-themed neighborizer that sometimes has the option to murder:
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/role/?mafiarole=Kidnapper

Regardless, Ulti apparently freely offered up in the chat that he was actually vanilla without being pressed so the bit about having a Track could simply be something Wallz tacked on after the fact.

Also of note, ctes said inactive were town yesterday which is dumb. I believe me and Kirby were the inactives. Just a note.

i remember reading T1P268 at the time and not noticing anything amiss at the time. I think there was some sort of discussion that made it reasonable for him to say he wasn't a simpson at the time.

and "My role is harmless but has a name that suggests otherwise." does at least check out, so if he was planning this whole line he was planning it very early.

i think he looks fine to me

Betrayed by Ctes and Wallz?! I don't know if I can get behind that, but it probably should be considered. I still don't care about renamed roles or PM formats though. But I will check into him and Ctes.

Then we have this exchange. T2P57

Leafeon13N posted...

I'm not sure at all what ultis logic is. Being seen not murdering someone is usually the opposite of damning. Pretty sure this is fake in some capacity.

T2P59

wallmasterz posted...

100% agree with this. I believe he wants to draw a scan, or possibly other town power, which is why he brought it up then tried to keep what should be an obvious detail ambiguous

So he agrees with red that Ulti seemed to just be trying to draw a target from town power... And then he went on to target him with his supposed town power?

changmas posted...

I think there was some sort of discussion that made it reasonable for him to say he wasn't a simpson at the time.

The discussion was "did you mean you weren't in the TV show simpsons or did you mean you weren't a member of the Simpsons family" to which he clarified that his character IS from the show, but is not a Simpson.

But that's still a detail that he decided to provide completely unprompted. I didn't notice it my first time through, but now that we know the mafia are called Simpson that feels like a slip.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Then we have this exchange. T2P57

T2P59

So he agrees with red that Ulti seemed to just be trying to draw a target from town power... And then he went on to target him with his supposed town power?

that's pretty nice.

I may have started down this path based upon lol renamed role meta, but that's a few things clicking into place now during the re-read.

fd selling me on wallz here.

well i think it would be less of a slip and more of a wink wink nudge nudge for bragging rights post-game

which i actually think would be within wallz's game to do, but i'm definitely not sold on that actually being the case for other reasons.

not sure he and ctes band together on the isquen thing if scum/scum

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I may have started down this path based upon lol renamed role meta, but that's a few things clicking into place now during the re-read.

The power usage oddity was a good find

now make it make sense that wallz and ulti are actually scum together.

soooooo boring to see SBell call ulti scum in every game ever zzzzzzzzzz

changmas posted...

soooooo boring to see SBell call ulti scum in every game ever zzzzzzzzzz

that's not what I'm doing. I'm asking fd if he can.

Obellisk posted...

now make it make sense that wallz and ulti are actually scum together.

I don't see that being possible. It could be neither of them, or it could be one of them, but both doesn't feel possible.

Anyways onto more Wallz posts:

The first half of T2 was mostly him being annoyed that people were "protecting" isquen from the pressure he and ctes were putting down.

Then T2P292 we have:

wallmasterz posted...

I cant remember for sure if I was before death but I think I was, I also mentioned thinking there could be a flavor cop or a role cop because my role name didnt match my benign role.

Another reference to having a scary role name. This is at least with consistent with Kidnapper.

T2P366

wallmasterz posted...

Someone suggested ulti should indicate who he plans to visit tonight. That still seems like a good idea

wallmasterz posted...

My paranoid thought all d1 is ulti is scum bomb and intentionally kept his role explanation vague + unsatisfying in hopes of drawing a town tracker or cop. Probably unlikely, but something is off for sure

Ulti is maybe a scum bomb trying to draw a town scan? Let's town scan him!

>_>

wallmasterz posted...

I dont want to special Corrik.

What has FD done other than spreadsheet talk. Admittedly, he makes nice spreadsheets.

wallmasterz posted...

lets get a counter going. FD, someone.

I really dont like the Corrik voters and prefer the ulti voters but I dont want to lynch ulti

And then he threw out my name twice right at the end :(

That doesn't mean anything about his role, but when he didn't get the special he wanted we got his "meh" ctes vote instead.

Anyways that's what I've got for now. I would have liked an additional data point to consider from red, but lol at red providing useful information when I ask for it.

And all the other stuff?

Was it wallz that neighbored me last game and he was scum? and then red vigged me.

this would be a good time to have a better short term memory

Obellisk posted...

Was it wallz that neighbored me last game and he was scum? and then red vigged me.

Wallz was the godfather neighborizer. MZero was the town Vigil.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c979c231.jpg

reliable spreadsheets.

changmas posted...

well i think it would be less of a slip and more of a wink wink nudge nudge for bragging rights post-game

which i actually think would be within wallz's game to do, but i'm definitely not sold on that actually being the case for other reasons.

As someone who has been scumbuddies with Wallz, he's a pretty reserved scum player. Doesn't strike me at all as the cocky kind of scum player.

Really, I can't believe Wallz is even being considered right now. I thought we were done with Lopen-level conspiracies.

UltimaterializerX posted...

He was scum neighbor, yeah.

Speaking of, how did he act in that chat?

extra friendly and freely giving information, totally understanding if I wanted to hold back any info because I didn't trust him yet.