It's my belief that everyone should follow a religion.

There's really no harm in it. People get so up in arms over difference in belief, but who gives a shit? If something gives you comfort in life, makes the hard times easier, go for it. If you die and you're wrong, then the likely scenario is that everybody else is wrong too and whatever you believed on Earth won't have an impact on the afterlife.

Theres also really no harm in not having a religion, is there?

RIP Daniel Dennet. High priest of the religion of atheism.

I'd amend that and suggest some form of spirituality, not necessarily a formal religion. Making a point of examining yourself and your place in the world around you is generally just a good idea that offers a range of mental and social health benefits. A formal religion can help to codify that with suggestions about who you should be and how you should live, and practicing as part of a religious community gives you the opportunity to discuss such things with like-minded people to develop your beliefs further, but secular spirituality still yields many of those benefits and can be a lot more comfortable for people that are hesitant to align themselves with some of the less savoury aspects of organized religion.

kind9 posted...

the religion of atheism

Why does that sound slightly oxymoronic?

I'd argue that most people do follow a religion, even if they don't admit it.

The more vocal Internet Atheists essentially have a strong belief system rooted purely in faith (ie, that there is definitely no god or higher power), and can be as judgmental and dogmatic about it much as any openly religious person, and as hypocritically guilty of most of the things they accuse religion of. They're just as convinced that they understand the fundamental nature of the universe as any other religion is.

They even have their own form of religious discourse - tons of videos on YouTube or conversations on various forums where they talk about other people's belief systems and all the ways you can try and dunk on them and prove them wrong. Internet Atheism/Antitheism/Angstheism doesn't just fit most of the criteria of a religion, it's an evangelical religion.

Even beyond that, there are a LOT of people out there who have essentially replaced faith in a god with blind faith in SCIENCE - with the new priesthood just being men in white coats (or just anyone with "doctor" in front of their name). These are people who may not understand the universe they live in (or how the actual Scientific Method actually works), but firmly believe that science has all the answers (and if we don't know something now, we will eventually). Like medieval peasants putting their blind faith in priests to know THE TRUTH and tell them what to do, people today treat scientists the exact same way (even when they should take advantage of all the available opportunities to look into things themselves, and understand that science is more of an evolving subjective understanding rather than an Absolute Truth).

Most people are blind followers. Without organized and established religions they've just found other things to follow. Because thinking for yourself is hard .



THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...

If you die and you're wrong, then the likely scenario is that everybody else is wrong too and whatever you believed on Earth won't have an impact on the afterlife.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager

EclairReturns posted...

Why does that sound slightly oxymoronic?

Because atheism is a negation or absence of god-belief, not a worldview or philosophy.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

I'd argue that most people do follow a religion, even if they don't admit it.

The more vocal Internet Atheists essentially have a strong belief system rooted purely in faith (ie, that there is definitely no god or higher power), and can be as judgmental and dogmatic about it much as any openly religious person, and as hypocritically guilty of most of the things they accuse religion of. They're just as convinced that they understand the fundamental nature of the universe as any other religion is.

They even have their own form of religious discourse - tons of videos on YouTube or conversations on various forums where they talk about other people's belief systems and all the ways you can try and dunk on them and prove them wrong. Internet Atheism/Antitheism/Angstheism doesn't just fit most of the criteria of a religion, it's an evangelical religion.

Even beyond that, there are a LOT of people out there who have essentially replaced faith in a god with blind faith in SCIENCE - with the new priesthood just being men in white coats (or just anyone with "doctor" in front of their name). These are people who may not understand the universe they live in (or how the actual Scientific Method actually works), but firmly believe that science has all the answers (and if we don't know something now, we will eventually). Like medieval peasants putting their blind faith in priests to know THE TRUTH and tell them what to do, people today treat scientists the exact same way (even when they should take advantage of all the available opportunities to look into things themselves, and understand that science is more of an evolving subjective understanding rather than an Absolute Truth).

Most people are blind followers. Without organized and established religions they've just found other things to follow. Because thinking for yourself is hard.

Maybe take a long vacation from the internet.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3dbb551b.jpg

EclairReturns posted...

Why does that sound slightly oxymoronic?

There is layveyan Satanism. Atheism turned into a religion.

Was supposed to be a parody of organized religion just not as on the nose as pastafarians. But it kinda became a thing that has lasted 80 years.

Or how about you just leave people the hell alone? That's not much to ask. Too much harm has come from that sort of belligerent thinking.

This is literal fascist thinking... Please don't think this way.

Melody_JR posted...

This is literal fascist thinking... Please don't think this way.

Right? Like seriously, what is wrong with some people?

i am a card carrying member of the church of satan

because somehow satan actually follows the ideology of what organized religion says they are but actually are not.

I'm back from my warning from this topic and have learned my lesson. Fear God.

Melody_JR posted...

This is literal fascist thinking... Please don't think this way.

Eh, I'm reading it the same way I'd read "everyone should have at least a couple good friends": It's not "Everyone who doesn't have friends should be forced to do so" (which would be fascist), it's "It's a good idea for everyone to have friends" (which is decidedly less so). It's just always a bit dicey saying things like that about religion because of how many societies do force people to be religious and how many problems that's caused (particularly where forcing people into spirituality means you don't get any of the benefits of conducting personal introspection on your own terms).

Glob posted...

Theres also really no harm in not having a religion, is there?

Right? Lmao like TC said who gives a shit?

Jen0125 posted...

Right? Lmao like TC said who gives a shit?

People like to pretend they live in a bubble but they don't. What they believe in ultimately effects the rest of us.

Like you're going to tell me that you think that there's a hell and people are going to it, but you're not going to do anything to keep your closest friends and family from ending up there?

Example; I remember TC having some pretty homophobic remarks. How happy do you think his kid would be if they were trans? It would be impossible to reason with him. It'd be hard to have any conversation about society with him without hitting a nerve. He wants society to be religious... because he thinks atheists are worse. Exactly what I just got warned for.

Yeah, someone having a religion affects everyone because they feel everyone should live that way because of their religious texts. Atheists just want to be left alone to live life the way they want.

THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...

There's really no harm in it. People get so up in arms over difference in belief

You just explained perfectly why forcing more people into religion is a terrible idea and contradicted yourself.

People should support (or not support) any religion they want, so long as they do not force their support (or lack thereof) onto other people. That's it. Be a Satanist if you want, so long as your beliefs don't impede on anyone else's.

Really not that hard, but unfortunately religion wouldn't be as profitable as it is without getting people to recruit more followers, and by extension, donors.

And all that doesn't even include the violent aspects of overzealous religious folks. When literal wars are breaking out over religion, something's wrong.

adjl posted...

Eh, I'm reading it the same way I'd read "everyone should have at least a couple good friends": It's not "Everyone who doesn't have friends should be forced to do so" (which would be fascist), it's "It's a good idea for everyone to have friends" (which is decidedly less so). It's just always a bit dicey saying things like that about religion because of how many societies do force people to be religious and how many problems that's caused (particularly where forcing people into spirituality means you don't get any of the benefits of conducting personal introspection on your own terms).

The desire to mandate forced spiritual or religious involvement is pure fascism. Don't try to white wash it with wishful thinking. It will eventually be boiled down into forcing people into specific religions for control over their thoughts and actions. If you think otherwise youre horribly naive.

Melody_JR posted...

The desire to mandate forced spiritual or religious involvement is pure fascism.

Well, yes, but I don't think this topic represents a desire to mandate forced spiritual or religious involvement. Not everyone saying "this would be a good idea" is saying "this should be codified into law," after all.

Depends where you follow it and how far down that road you're prepared to go, doesn't it?

When the stakes are as high as eternal life, what wouldn't you be prepared to do in the name of your deity?

There's potentially a lot of harm in it because organized religion is rife with abusers and con-men, and often (not always) promotes bigotry, science-denial and conservatism.

Not saying religion can't be a positive experience in someone's life, but its very very often a negative imo.

THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...

If you die and you're wrong, then the likely scenario is that everybody else is wrong too and whatever you believed on Earth won't have an impact on the afterlife.

What god hates religious people?

At that point you're just talking about culture in general and its only benefit is busy work.

this topic was removed for being off-topic in a social board lmaooo

THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...

this topic was removed for being off-topic in a social board lmaooo

So they brought back "off topic" too?

Honestly, what makes all this so baffling is the lack of clarification, transparency, and straight up definition of what is and isn't allowed.

Don't just say we're banning a blanket word and call it a day. Give examples. Answer questions. Dissolve confusion.

adjl posted...

Well, yes, but I don't think this topic represents a desire to mandate forced spiritual or religious involvement.

It's literally step 1. Ease them into the thinking you want, then force them when they're non compliant with your ultimate desires.

adjl posted...

Not everyone saying "this would be a good idea" is saying "this should be codified into law," after all.

This is en entirely puerile statement to make. Simply because they're not stating outright their ultimate goals, doesn't mean that isn't what they exactly want. Literally the point of Christo-fascism is to force everyone into your laws and ways of thinking and to purge anyone who isn't apart of that thinking.

I never claimed the original post was fully fascist, only that it is fascist thinking. I urged them not to think that way. To think that the baby step of forcing people to be in a religious institution against their will isn't to work to the end goal of pure fascism... there's nothing else for us to say to each other. Please don't attempt to diminish, white wash, or otherwise mitigate the actual things we're seeing in the world today. Fascism is absolutely a terrifying prospect that is being pushed to by a surprisingly large number of people.

Melody_JR posted...

This is en entirely puerile statement to make. Simply because they're not stating outright their ultimate goals, doesn't mean that isn't what they exactly want

Media illiteracy has been declining in recent years, I have heard complaints from teachers and book tiktokers about how people don't seem to understand something unless it is outright stated. Which I have also noticed in other areas but that gets more political.

There certainly is a religion that everyone should follow, but one of the key tenants of that religion dictates that you should not force people into following it as that isnt actual faith, nor does it produce it.

slacker03150 posted...

Media illiteracy has been declining in recent years, I have heard complaints from teachers and book tiktokers about how people don't seem to understand something unless it is outright stated. Which I have also noticed in other areas but that gets more political.

This is entirely by design. The constant defunding of schools and now the outright attack on anything that isn't White Nationalist. A certain orange dictator has even stated he loves the less intelligent, because they believe whatever he wants them to.

To be sure, I am not stating that Adjl is on that side. However, he has a misguided need to try to add more information that's utterly asinine to an argument just to see himself type. He argues points simply for the sake of, instead of just saying the proper thing, that fascism is wrong. The idea that everyone should be governmental mandate to be engaged in religion is literally the first step to outright Christo-Fascism.

It's my belief that everyone should lick eggs before eating them. There's really no harm in it.

it can literally kill a puppy if you do that

Melody_JR posted...

It's literally step 1. Ease them into the thinking you want, then force them when they're non compliant with your ultimate desires.

It's also step 1 of suggesting that religion can be helpful for people, then leaving it at that. There are many slippery slopes into fascism, but that doesn't mean that everything that can be one actually is one.

Melody_JR posted...

To think that the baby step of forcing people to be in a religious institution against their will isn't to work to the end goal of pure fascism...

But that's not what happened here. TC didn't say "everyone should be forced to be religious." Nobody said that. TC said "I think following a religion can be helpful for everyone," which is very distinct from forcing anyone into anything.

I'm all for shooting down fascism whenever the opportunity arises, but this ain't it, and there's really no reason to think it might be.

So much to say so little when nothing should have needed to be said.

You would think, but here we are.

ConfusedTorchic posted...

it can literally kill a puppy if you do that

Licking an egg?