Our tax refund shrunk over 1k this year.

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Current Events » Our tax refund shrunk over 1k this year.
Our combined income did grow some 10k. I'm assuming that's the reason? Our deductibles remained the same with the mortgage interests and kid.
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That's not how taxes work. Figure out your effective tax rate and see if it changed.
realnifty1 posted...
That's not how taxes work. Figure out your effective tax rate and see if it changed.

Yeah, I found it odd since we got some 1.2k back last year and now it says 237. We both only have W2s for income so its pretty straightforward and the change in interest payments due to the mortgage amortization is almost none since this is our 3rd year since we bought.
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did you get dividends from a saving account?
WingsOfGood posted...
did you get dividends from a saving account?

No other income other than 2 W2's. And the same deductibles form last year.
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Although your mortgage interest stayed the same, the portion of each payment that went to paying off that interest was less than the previous year.
tankboy posted...
Although your mortgage interest stayed the same, the portion of each payment that went to paying off that interest was less than the previous year.


Right. But its not that much different from one year to the next so EARLY of the mortgage lifespan. Probably not even $100, though I havent checked. Also my mortgage is just 710.
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The more likely explanation than anything mentioned so far is one or both of your employers more accurately estimated the tax withholding on your paycheck this year.
Instead of looking at your refund, compare 2024 total tax paid vs 2023 and see how those compare to their respective burdens.
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Ugh, taxes.

Can I just go ahead and die so I don't have to file this year?
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Looking at last year's refund it was only 1,121 so the difference is actually just 884 less from last to this year.

Hinakuluiau posted...
Instead of looking at your refund, compare 2024 total tax paid vs 2023 and see how those compare to their respective burdens.

2023 says withholding was 9, 146 and we only had to pay 8,025 thus the 1,121 refund. For 2024 it says a withholding of 9749 with a tax responsibility of 9,512 thus the 237 refund.

I dont think theres much I can do about that, right?

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CARRRNE_ASADA posted...
Looking at last year's refund it was only 1,121 so the difference is actually just 884 less from last to this year.

2023 says withholding was 9, 146 and we only had to pay 8,025 thus the 1,121 refund. For 2024 it says a withholding of 9749 with a tax responsibility of 9,512 thus the 237 refund.

I dont think theres much I can do about that, right?

You made 10k more income and have an additional $1500 in tax liability. What's your marginal tax rate? You can check if it makes sense.

Trump is pursuing a chaotic far-right overthrow of existing US government norms and checks and balances, trying to destroy our way of life.
before 2021 i used to get around $1,700 every year. The last few years i get $0 back. I am single, live alone with 0 dependents and 0 deductables so I pay the maximum amount in income taxes and this makes me feel better that the IRS has ALMOST no reason to kick in my door and kill me.

also i've never had any financial debt, never received any kind of welfare, never accrued any outstanding bills. Never even used a credit card. Never got any stimulus checks. I guess the gov just decided to embezzle my tax return as a new norm just for the hell of it.
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emblem-man posted...
You made 10k more income and have an additional $1500 in tax liability. What's your marginal tax rate? You can check if it makes sense.


Yeah not so sure. We went from 103k to 112.5k gross. I guess a good chunk of that new income is being taxed at a higher bracket? We do file as married jointly. Guess I should just be glad we dont have to pay huh.
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Married filing jointly tax marginal rate is 12% between 23k to 94k

Assuming standard deduction, 12% is going to be your marginal tax rate.

So 12% of 10k is 1200, which seems to roughly work out

Did you decrease or increase amount going into your 401k?
Trump is pursuing a chaotic far-right overthrow of existing US government norms and checks and balances, trying to destroy our way of life.
ReturnOfDevsman posted...
Ugh, taxes.

Can I just go ahead and die so I don't have to file this year?
Your estate still owes taxes on whatever you earned while living in 2024 in that case.
BloodyBenten posted...
Your estate still owes taxes on whatever you earned while living in 2024 in that case.
As long as I don't have to spend the next two months trying to track down a 1099-WTF and a WD40 and a 1095-BBQ.
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emblem-man posted...
Married filing jointly tax marginal rate is 12% between 23k to 94k

Assuming standard deduction, 12% is going to be your marginal tax rate.

So 12% of 10k is 1200, which seems to roughly work out

Did you decrease or increase amount going into your 401k?

Its remained at 6% for the both of us these past years. I did lower it to 3 recently around December or so cause I wanted to catch up with some debt. I'll probably raise it back up after seeing this.
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I never understand how it was supposed to be fair to have all the tax rebates go to people having kids. Arguably the people taking up more resources.
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divot1338 posted...
I never understand how it was supposed to be fair to have all the tax rebates go to people having kids. Arguably the people taking up more resources.
Kids being taken care of is not only morally right, its a net positive on society
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I got 180 bucks. After I paid for turbo tax it was 100. Turning a sucky thing into a positive, at least it dont owe anything. Taxes are a joke.
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divot1338 posted...
I never understand how it was supposed to be fair to have all the tax rebates go to people having kids. Arguably the people taking up more resources.

Cause it takes more money to raise someone? You're also bringing another consumer and producer into the world. It's not like you get a whole lot anyway.
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Having a smaller refund is a good thing, it means you gave the government less of your money interest free on loan for a year.
Your memes.... end here.
SauI_Goodman posted...
I got 180 bucks. After I paid for turbo tax it was 100. Turning a sucky thing into a positive, at least it dont owe anything. Taxes are a joke.

Next year use FreeTaxUSA and you won't have to pay Turbo Tax all that money.
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SauI_Goodman posted...
I got 180 bucks. After I paid for turbo tax it was 100. Turning a sucky thing into a positive, at least it dont owe anything. Taxes are a joke.

Literally the same. Last year I made 1k less and got $960 back. I don't use deductibles/tokens/, just raw dogging w2s and seeing what I get back. I'm going to make $90 after TT takes its due this year.
Since only from below can one better see the heights.
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I usually get $1000-1300 or so. I dont remember what I got last year. I cant file til around March, as thats when the tax form for my HSA comes out.
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CARRRNE_ASADA posted...
Cause it takes more money to raise someone? You're also bringing another consumer and producer into the world. It's not like you get a whole lot anyway.
The only thing you know about that new person for sure is that theyre going to be sucking up resources that I pay for while you get a fucking rebate. And other people certainly shouldnt need to subsidize it unless there is some similar restitution being made for what I need.

Im going to assume youve been married for a couple of years now so you may have forgotten but single people dont not get a lot.

They get fucked over. Theres almost no refund and theres certainly no $1000 rebate.

In a world where we have too many fucking people, the time to subsidize the middle class shitting out babies left and right is over.
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Lol wtf bro

Trump is pursuing a chaotic far-right overthrow of existing US government norms and checks and balances, trying to destroy our way of life.
Yeah my wife worked a full year at her job so we jumped a tax bracket and our refund also went down. Oh well.
his comparison suggests we're closet african americans.
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divot1338 posted...
The only thing you know about that new person for sure is that theyre going to be sucking up resources that I pay for while you get a fucking rebate. And other people certainly shouldnt need to subsidize it unless there is some similar restitution being made for what I need.

Im going to assume youve been married for a couple of years now so you may have forgotten but single people dont not get a lot.

They get fucked over. Theres almost no refund and theres certainly no $1000 rebate.

In a world where we have too many fucking people, the time to subsidize the middle class shitting out babies left and right is over.
For one, this same logic applies to pretty much everything taxes fund.

For a second, the developed world is actually entering a serious population crisis. It's mostly Africa that's keeping us above population replacement globally.

For a third, I for one meticulously itemize and still end up taking the standard deduction every year.
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Blbmbr666 posted...
Having a smaller refund is a good thing, it means you gave the government less of your money interest free on loan for a year.
Explaining this every tax season is the modern version of Sisyphus.
BloodyBenten posted...
Explaining this every tax season is the modern version of Sisyphus.
It's also really dumb. The most common missing of the point in the entire first quarter of every year.

The point is I already paid $X in taxes regardless, so I would prefer to get more back. I mean, duh .

It's the tax equivalent of this conversation:

"Aw man my lottery ticket didn't win!"
"That's a good thing because playing the lottery is statistically going to be a loss."
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hyperskate65 posted...
Yeah my wife worked a full year at her job so we jumped a tax bracket and our refund also went down. Oh well.

Yeah, think Im gonna go ahead and just file it.

BloodyBenten posted...
Explaining this every tax season is the modern version of Sisyphus.

Its just that I usually use it to pay for my kids annual fee for his school so now I have to budget for that.
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divot1338 posted...
The only thing you know about that new person for sure is that theyre going to be sucking up resources that I pay for while you get a fucking rebate. And other people certainly shouldnt need to subsidize it unless there is some similar restitution being made for what I need.

Im going to assume youve been married for a couple of years now so you may have forgotten but single people dont not get a lot.

They get fucked over. Theres almost no refund and theres certainly no $1000 rebate.

In a world where we have too many fucking people, the time to subsidize the middle class shitting out babies left and right is over.
The money isnt to subsidize the people having kids, its to subsidize the kids, who, it should be noted, generally dont work to pay for their own food
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TheGoldenEel posted...
The money isnt to subsidize the people having kids, its to subsidize the kids, who, it should be noted, generally dont work to pay for their own food
Shouldnt the parents be doing that?

Because giving only parents the tax break means were subsidizing your children.

And thats not based on need or anything. Its just all children.
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divot1338 posted...
Shouldnt the parents be doing that?

Because giving only parents the tax break means were subsidizing your children.

Do you disagree with disability payments?
Trump is pursuing a chaotic far-right overthrow of existing US government norms and checks and balances, trying to destroy our way of life.
emblem-man posted...
Do you disagree with disability payments?
Its not only limited to those in need.

All parents filing who have children get included so this has nothing do with the disabled or kids who are in need.

You and I are paying Donald Trump a Child Tax credit for Barron.
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divot1338 posted...
Its not only limited to those in need.

All parents filing who have children get included so this has nothing do with the disabled or kids who are in need.

You and I are paying Donald Trump a Child Tax credit for Barron.

There's an income limit for the tax credit. Means testing benefits is rarely worth it anyway, so I don't even think we should have an income limit. Just claw back the money from higher income people through taxes

But my question was more, are you fine with a disabled adult getting benefits? If so, why is that different than from a child getting benefits?

Kids are essentially disabled. They can't care for themselves or work and provide income. Why should they not receive benefits?

Would you accept that argument that helping to incentivize and raise children is a long term investment in the country?
Trump is pursuing a chaotic far-right overthrow of existing US government norms and checks and balances, trying to destroy our way of life.
Having kids is you grown an economy and thus wallstreet. You may not have kids, but your investments also depend on this.
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emblem-man posted...
There's an income limit for the tax credit. Means testing benefits is rarely worth it anyway, so I don't even think we should have an income limit. Just claw back the money from higher income people through taxes

But my question was more, are you fine with a disabled adult getting benefits? If so, why is that different than from a child getting benefits?
Because
  1. theres no reciprocation so this is all one way,
  2. parents can pay for their own kids or utilize the existing systems to see to their well being,
  3. given Republicans penchant for calling people welfare queens when theyre not white makes this seem kind of disingenuous.


Im realistic enough to realize this will never change since theres no way theyll ever take it away now that people are accustomed to it.
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CARRRNE_ASADA posted...
Having kids is you grown an economy and thus wallstreet. You may not have kids, but your investments also depend on this.
You are reaching unbelievably far.

Didnt you just argue that this isnt us subsidizing people to have kids?
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divot1338 posted...
Shouldnt the parents be doing that?

Because giving only parents the tax break means were subsidizing your children.

And thats not based on need or anything. Its just all children.

Even if they got rid of the tax credit for kids, its not theyd decide to lower taxes for everyone. So youd still get nothing.

Cuticrusader09 posted...
Even if they got rid of the tax credit for kids, its not theyd decide to lower taxes for everyone. So youd still get nothing.
I would save
(# of children)* (cost of child tax credit) / (# of tax payers)
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divot1338 posted...
Because
theres no reciprocation so this is all one way,
It is reciprocated. The child becomes an adult and adds to the workforce, paying for services that you use. Social security for example.

divot1338 posted...
parents can pay for their own kids or utilize the existing systems to see to their well being,
I mean, part of that existing system are things like that child tax credit. Are you also against public education? Free meals at school? Services they are paid for by the community regardless of if you have a child or not. If not, how are those different?
Trump is pursuing a chaotic far-right overthrow of existing US government norms and checks and balances, trying to destroy our way of life.
Is it child tax credits in particular you're against, or like most forms of tax credits? I want to understand the baseline here
Trump is pursuing a chaotic far-right overthrow of existing US government norms and checks and balances, trying to destroy our way of life.
The government wants people to have kids, so theres a tax benefit to having kids.

You guys are overthinking it.
emblem-man posted...
Is it child tax credits in particular you're against, or like most forms of tax credits? I want to understand the baseline here
I was pretty clear this is about the child tax credit.

If you want to treat this like some kind of precious resource that I would be foolish not to be willing to wait two decades to see very little return in the investment, then I would point out that kids will keep being born whether this happens or not.

So they should either give everybody a credit or no one. Then let the welfare and medicaid l systems do their job.

And theres a reason that child welfare isnt usually addressed through the tax code. Because there are much better ways to address poverty and provide for children in need. But this way allows Republicans to have the thing they want without having to negotiate for it in Congress.
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As someone else mentioned, the government wants kids to be born.
On the other hand, our country is very blatantly an oligarchy run by wealthy corporations and individuals who will never agree to any sort of social benefits or welfare for people. They just want more laborers.
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BloodyBenten posted...
The government wants people to have kids, so theres a tax benefit to having kids.

You guys are overthinking it.
You could look at it that way

the other way to look at it is people, generally, want to have kids, and kids who are financially cared for are statistically less likely to grow up to do things like commit crimes or grow up with untreated health problems, etc

(obviously the tax credit isnt nearly enough in many cases)
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Current Events » Our tax refund shrunk over 1k this year.