I would argue otherwise. Plagueis was definitely a better duelist with a lightsaber than Palpatine could ever be. He was also much better at using the Force than Palpatine was when Palpatine cowardly killed him in his sleep. Palpatine knew this, which is why he killed him at his most vulnerable. Plagueis mastered midichlorians and the unnatural powers well before Palpatine even had an inkling of them.
Palpatine literally drugged Plagueis to get the upper hand.
That was actually one of my favorite aspects of TLJ, because it at least shook up the standard master-apprentice formula and opened up the possibility for more interesting story dynamics. Alas...
Also, Snoke just plain fucking sucked. I hated his jerkoff name, I hated his jerkoff face, I hated his jerkoff appearing out of nowhere to be the new big bad. Not even Andy Serkis could salvage that turd.
On one hand yeah, but "somehow Palpatine returned" is one of the few worse outcomes for that
The Disney continuity has not in fact said that Palpatine created Anakin. The one comic that did,
Kylo wasnt big bad material. He got his ass bl
Hux was relegated to comic relief.
Snoke was meant to be the main dude from the beginn
When people tell criticize these movies about snoke in any way 90% of the time what they're saying is "I had this amazing idea for snoke that I wrote up in my head and the movies didn't follow that so they're bad"
It's weird that I only hear this exact defense when it's about TLJ. I never see it about any other movie or show, but many TLJ fans use that same argument.
When people tell criticize these movies about snoke in any way 90% of the time what they're saying is "I had this amazing idea for snoke that I wrote up in my head and the movies didn't follow that so they're bad"
Its so hilarious to see people unironcislly argue "nan this movie would've worked if it was much more formulaic and copied the old movies best for beat some more!"
Are these strawmen in the room with you right now?
At his core I hated Snoke specifically because he was a dimestore Palpatine that the universe pulled out of its ass just to have a new big bad Sith master. The ST could've been so much more interesting if it had been Kylo Ren alone who was the commanding figurehead of the First Order, as opposed to just another Sith apprentice lapdog.
Are these strawmen in the room with you right now?
At his core I hated Snoke specifically because he was a dimestore Palpatine that the universe pulled out of its ass just to have a new big bad Sith master. The ST could've been so much more interesting if it had been Kylo Ren alone who was the commanding figurehead of the First Order, as opposed to just another Sith apprentice lapdog.
He'll argue that TLJ is amazing but ROS is also great and makes sense with absolutely no sense of contradiction.
He hates Snoke
Hot take: The First Order would've been better if Kylo had the same role but the actual one in charge was General Pryde from the start and he manipulates Kylo with stories of when he knew Vader in the old wars.
And you argue that TLJ is awful but defend AOTC and everything Lucas does but also Lucas was wrong go want a follow up to the OT and those characters were perfect and shoild never be portrayed in any light but positive.It's funny you keep lying about that because you're not capable of arguing honestly and you let Disney define your tastes for you.
Are these strawmen in the room with you right now?
At his core I hated Snoke specifically because he was a dimestore Palpatine that the universe pulled out of its ass just to have a new big bad Sith master. The ST could've been so much more interesting if it had been Kylo Ren alone who was the commanding figurehead of the First Order
Man, it says a lot about Ep 9 when you look at the fairly stock hardass Imperial general character and say "holy shit this guy is the best part of the movie."
But yeah, having Pryde from the start of the trilogy as a vizier-like subordinate general manipulating the hotheaded Kylo to his own ends would've been a winning recipe.
Hot take: The First Order would've been better if Kylo had the same role but the actual one in charge was General Pryde
"Instead of not-palpatine we should've had not-tarkin!"
Also the imps hated Vader. Whu would anyone of them want another ego tripping edge lord around them who they had to follow orders of?
Its been 10 years and almlst no one still can come up with actual good alternative ST plots. I mean, I've seen good ones but its incredibly rare.
Hot take: The First Order would've been better if Kylo had the same role but the actual one in charge was General Pryde from the start and he manipulates Kylo with stories of when he knew Vader in the old wars.The First Order would've been better if, instead of being "somehow the Empire returned," they were a terrorist cell meant to destroy the Republic, essentially flipping the original dynamic around.
The First Order would've been better if, instead of being "somehow the Empire returned," they were a terrorist cell meant to destroy the Republic, essentially flipping the original dynamic around.
If Disney were to implement any of them, you'd be on your knees at a statue of
Also, Not-Tarkin already exists. His name is Krennic
Hilarious from someone who's critique of the ST is that it exists and grt doesn't spends its runtime fellating my goat Luke SkywalkerKeep lying dude. It's like a security blanket so you only have to fight the strawman.
No, krennic is a very very different character than tarkin and if you watched rogue one and andor and didn't see that then that actually explains why the complexities of TLJ escaped you
The First Order would've been better if, instead of being "somehow the Empire returned," they were a terrorist cell meant to destroy the Republic, essentially flipping the original dynamic around.That's literally what they were supposed to be at first, that's what they were pitched as. JJ just can't tell any stories that aren't just retellings of something someone else did better.
He didn't drug him to get the upper hand, he drugged him because it was the best way to catch him off-guard, on a night of celebration.I think upper hand and off guard can pretty much be interchanged here.
Which isn't even how it happens in canon anyway.
I think upper hand and off guard can pretty much be interchanged here.
In terms of pure power and mastery Plagueis would have mopped Palpatine in a stand-off.
Keep lying dude. It's like a security blanket so you only have to fight the strawman.
Krennic is literally written as a Tarkin wannabe who chafes enormously that Tarkin is better
Kinda like your "Luke's struggles were all concluded in ROTJ and the movie promised us hed rebuild the order"? That kind of lie?
Krennic is a completely different personq than tarkin in every way. Hes ambition, and impatience and arrogance. Hes messy, crass. Tarkin knows his role and silently does it better than anyone else. Thats why taekins where he is at. He doesn't seel greater than what he has. He uses what he has most effectively.
Toonstrack, on a film titled "Return of the Jedi:" "This never promised the Jedi would come back!"
That's why he's Not-Tarkin. Keep up
The idea that Palpatine created Anakin comes from the PT, in that scene from RotS. Palpatine essentially says so.Eh... it's an implication meant to lead on Anakin, not any actual proof that it's actually true. And even in Legends lore, he didn't create Anakin either. The Plagueis novel pretty directly states that Plagueis and Palpatine experimenting caused a backlash, which was the Force retaliating to create Anakin.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3d8b3ee4.pngIll need those sources before I believe that Palpatine wasnt just a sneaky apprentice who seized power after killing his master in his sleep. That And somehowPalpatine returned doesnt sell it for me.
Thhere's like 8 different sources that say Palpatine surpassed Plagueis. He didn't act until he learned all he could from him and Plagueis was of no further use for him.
Palpatine is the ultimate villain of the SW saga. Plagueis got played by the best
Ill need those sources before I believe that Palpatine wasnt just a sneaky apprentice who seized power after killing his master in his sleep. That And somehowPalpatine returned doesnt sell it for me.
Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history. (The New Essential Chronology, page 84)I concede.
"The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course [that the Rebel Alliance would be troublesome]; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith who had ever existed. (Death Star, page 76)
Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known. (Vader: the Ultimate Guide, page 19)
"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure"-- The Dark Empire Sourcebook.
[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.-- The Dark Side Sourcebook.
Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time.-- The Complete Visual Dictionary.
"The Sith Order, in hiding for a millennium, had awaited the birth of one who was powerful enough to return the Order to prominence. Darth Sidious was the fulfillment of that prophecy, capable of exacting the Sith's revenge on the Jedi for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force." -- the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia.
The newest of these sources predates the Plagueis novel by a couple years, but the point is very much clear - Palpatine is the strongest Sith Lord in history.
Ill need those sources before I believe that Palpatine wasnt just a sneaky apprentice who seized power after killing his master in his sleep.
The one I just posted is from a canon story called "Masters."My problem comes from which one had the most raw power and mastery of death and the force. A lot of Palpatines power is political.
The New Essential Chronology straight up calls Palpatine "The most powerful Sith who ever lived."
The novel Darth Plagueis
Vader: The Ultimate Guide.
Jedi vs. Sith, the Guide to the Force
The Complete Visual Dictionar' states Sidious s ithe most powerful Sith ever, which was re-released in September 2012, after the Plagueis novel was released.
Genuine question; why do you hold Palpatine killing Plagueis in his sleep as a black mark, but not Plagueis using a similar trick on his own master? Isn't that how the Sith are supposed to work? Whether he could defeat his master directly instead of with subterfgee at the time of his (Plagueis') death is debatable, but there is no question that he eventually and ultimately surpassed his master.
Although I do have to wonder how much of Palpatines reputation was due to his political power over his actual raw strength.My dude, of those sources I posted, literally only one isn't an out-of-universe material literally stating directly he's the most powerful Sith to have ever existed. There's nothing there saying that Plagueis was stronger, or a better duelist, literally in anything except the beginning when he's first training Palpatine.
Although I do have to wonder how much of Palpatines reputation was due to his political power over his actual raw strength.
My problem comes from which one had the most raw power and mastery of death and the force. A lot of Palpatines power is political.Again, not true. Yes, Palpatine holds a lot of political power, but I literally posted multiple quotes saying he has enormous power in the Force. Even Lucas said he's stupidly powerful, though I don't have that quote on hand, and in 2005 Vanity Fair interview said that Anakin would have had the potential to be twice as powerful as Palpatine.
My problem comes from which one had the most raw power and mastery of death and the force. A lot of Palpatines power is political.
My dude, of those sources I posted, literally only one isn't an out-of-universe material literally stating directly he's the most powerful Sith to have ever existed. There's nothing there saying that Plagueis was stronger, or a better duelist, literally in anything except the beginning when he's first training Palpatine.Plagueis was a master of all seven lightsaber forms, being able to move at light speed, and would have easily outclassed Sidious in a one on one lightsaber duel, through Palpatines own admission.
Plagueis lost, and is dead. He died to trickery and cunning, like so many other Sith before him. It's kind of what they do.
Again, not true. Yes, Palpatine holds a lot of political power, but I literally posted multiple quotes saying he has enormous power in the Force. Even Lucas said he's stupidly powerful, though I don't have that quote on hand, and in 2005 Vanity Fair interview said that Anakin would have had the potential to be twice as powerful as Palpatine.
My dude, of those sources I posted, literally only one isn't an out-of-universe material literally stating directly he's the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.
Plagueis was a master of all seven lightsaber forms, being able to move at light speed, and would have easily outclassed Sidious in a one on one lightsaber duel, through Palpatines own admission.
Plagueis was a master of all seven lightsaber forms, being able to move at light speed, and would have easily outclassed Sidious in a one on one lightsaber duel, through Palpatines own admission.Literally no Force user is able to move at light speed.
Literally no Force user is able to move at light speed.
Palpatine was also a master of all lightsaber forms.
When does Palpatine admit that?https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c06a0af0.jpg
Also, where is that sourced on Plagueis? He's got solid feats, but Palpatine has superior saber feats to him. Especially as Palpatine was able to match Yoda, described as the most powerful Jedi Master who lived as of their duel