Did you like Ganondorf's inclusion in Twilight Princess?

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Current Events » Did you like Ganondorf's inclusion in Twilight Princess?
first time I played I was 10, and so scared of zant. so to learn that he was answering to the big bad, ganondorf, reverse executioner- was so wild.

then I learned that a lot of people felt ganondorf was just shoe-horned in and ruined what could have been a great original antagonist's arch, as zant in the 2nd half is kinda dumb and stupid

what do you guys think
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zant struck me as more an an annoyance, ganondorf felt like an actual threat.

i wonder though, people that hated his insertion into TP, what they thought about demise in skyward sword.
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The thing that's odd to me is his first encounter with Link being right at the final battle . Cause he's supposed to have made his first introduction by the time the first 3-4 dungeons are over in order for all the tension to have built up by that time. Where's the fun in two complete strangers trying to kill each other just because that's just what they're supposed to do?
I know I beat Twilight Princess but I remember very little about it.
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TendoDRM posted...
I know I beat Twilight Princess but I remember very little about it.

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he was built up the entire game so its not like he came out of nowhere
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TendoDRM posted...
I know I beat Twilight Princess but I remember very little about it.

Yeah, one of my favorite versions of him.
I probably only like WW more.
I enjoyed him in ToK, but there just wasn't enough of him.
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Only thing I remember about Twilight Princess was how slow it was at the start
Kind of mixed on it. Zant was a pretty good villain until Ganondorf took over and he turned into a goofy character, so I didnt like it in that regard. But it had my favorite vs Ganon/Ganondorf climax in the series so I like that it gave us that.
TendoDRM posted...
I know I beat Twilight Princess but I remember very little about it.
Do you remember when Zant started jumping and bouncing around and making high-pitched squealing whiney noises
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The strange thing about discourse surrounding this topic is that people talk like Ganondorf's being revealed as the final villain was an endgame plot twist, like you beat Zant and "surprise, it was Ganondorf all along!" Even though Ganondorf was revealed halfway through the game and hinted at even earlier. I legitimately don't understand if people just forgot you learn about him in the Arbiter's Grounds or what, but it is strange.
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Srk700 posted...
Kind of mixed on it. Zant was a pretty good villain until Ganondorf took over and he turned into a goofy character, so I didnt like it in that regard. But it had my favorite vs Ganon/Ganondorf climax in the series so I like that it gave us that.


Basically this. Would have loved to have Zant stand on his own and be a formidable threat all the way through. This incarnation of Ganondorf was great, but I wished he had been in his own game for that reason, and not having all his screentime dumped into the last 30 minutes of the game.
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Evolician posted...
Do you remember when Zant started jumping and bouncing around and making high-pitched squealing whiney noises

I don't even remember who Zant is.
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I was whatever on him until I read a post on the TPHD board back in 2016 that puts Ganondorf's behavior into perspective with the events of the child timeline.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/183128-the-legend-of-zelda-twilight-princess-hd/73401589

Now, how much of that was intended by the devs I don't know, but I think it shows there's more to him than what players give him credit for. Too bad the child timeline never features him again!
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snake_5036 posted...
I was whatever on him until I read a post on the TPHD board back in 2016 that puts Ganondorf's behavior into perspective with the events of the child timeline.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/183128-the-legend-of-zelda-twilight-princess-hd/73401589

Now, how much of that was intended by the devs I don't know, but I think it shows there's more to him than what players give him credit for. Too bad the child timeline never features him again!

This made me really interested to replay TP again....
Letsago posted...
The strange thing about discourse surrounding this topic is that people talk like Ganondorf's being revealed as the final villain was an endgame plot twist, like you beat Zant and "surprise, it was Ganondorf all along!" Even though Ganondorf was revealed halfway through the game and hinted at even earlier. I legitimately don't understand if people just forgot you learn about him in the Arbiter's Grounds or what, but it is strange.

Its more like he doesnt seem to take notice of the strange kid running around trying to foil his plans this time until he shows up on his rooftop.
The whole point of the game was to serve as a followup to the child timeline of OoT (along with Wind Waker which did the same thing for the adult timeline). It wouldn't have made sense for Ganondorf to not be a significant player.
snake_5036 posted...
I was whatever on him until I read a post on the TPHD board back in 2016 that puts Ganondorf's behavior into perspective with the events of the child timeline.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/183128-the-legend-of-zelda-twilight-princess-hd/73401589

Now, how much of that was intended by the devs I don't know, but I think it shows there's more to him than what players give him credit for. Too bad the child timeline never features him again!

unrelated but people VASTLY over state how "nuanced" ganondorf was in WW

he is still just as much of a selfish bastard as he was in OoT he just gives ONE LINE that contradicts his actions in both OoT and WW

i take that line as him lieing to himself
3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.*does her janpuu dance*
AceMos posted...
unrelated but people VASTLY over state how "nuanced" ganondorf was in WW

he is still just as much of a selfish bastard as he was in OoT he just gives ONE LINE that contradicts his actions in both OoT and WW

i take that line as him lieing to himself
I agree with you. A lot of Ganondorf's speech doesn't reflect what we see in OoT (or any of the games, really) and what the rest of the Gerudo (and people who speak of the Gerudo) say, and everything negative about the Gerudo we hear in OoT can be traced to Ganondorf's actions/decrees. I think showing Ganondorf justifying his actions in his own mind and explaining that to us is a great thing to add, but I find it concerning how many people fall for it and feel bad for him after 3 attempted genocides (Gorons in the child part of OoT, almost all of Hyrule in the adult part of OoT, and Hyrule again in the era without a hero).
You felt your sins weighing on your neck.
TendoDRM posted...
I know I beat Twilight Princess but I remember very little about it.

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It was fine. I liked Zant a lot though
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snake_5036 posted...
I agree with you. A lot of Ganondorf's speech doesn't reflect what we see in OoT (or any of the games, really) and what the rest of the Gerudo (and people who speak of the Gerudo) say, and everything negative about the Gerudo we hear in OoT can be traced to Ganondorf's actions/decrees. I think showing Ganondorf justifying his actions in his own mind and explaining that to us is a great thing to add, but I find it concerning how many people fall for it and feel bad for him after 3 attempted genocides (Gorons in the child part of OoT, almost all of Hyrule in the adult part of OoT, and Hyrule again in the era without a hero).

dont forget ganodorf left his people to rot in the desert the moment he took over hyrule in OoT and then brought death on all of hyrule

and in WW he is bringing death to the seas

thoe when you factor SS into things there is some interesting implications
3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.*does her janpuu dance*
I was fine with it... Like the design too...

I also like Zant... But that might be because I like playing as him in Hyrule Warriors... He has a fun Risk-Vs-Reward playstyle...
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I'll be real, the end of a game released this year that did something similar made me actually a lot more forgiving retroactively to Twilight Princess for that.

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CyricZ posted...
I'll be real, the end of a game released this year that did something similar made me actually a lot more forgiving retroactively to Twilight Princess for that.

For anyone curious DK Bananza.

huh glad to hear something made you rethink your stance
3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.*does her janpuu dance*
I can understand why people were disappointed that he overshadowed Zant, but I thought they were both excellent villains. TP Ganondorf also has a really cool design, and I like the backstory of his botched execution.
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loved it. and loved zants play in his downfall
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I remember his boss fight being pretty badass, but nothing specific.
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Zant was such an interesting villain in the first half of the game. I loved how petty he was when he returned Hyrule back to Twilight but then quickly reversed it just so he could attempt to kill Midna with the light when she refused to join him.
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GeneralKenobi85 posted...
I can understand why people were disappointed that he overshadowed Zant, but I thought they were both excellent villains. TP Ganondorf also has a really cool design, and I like the backstory of his botched execution.

Yeah I have no issue with Ganondorf being the main villain and wouldnt want Zant being so instead. I just think they did a poor job building him up despite the amplitude of cinematic scenes in the game in general. The end sequence was really cool but could have been more powerful with better context.
Zant makes several references to the awesome and terrifying power of his god. even when I was 16 i was like "oh my fuck. ganon is gonna be in this." i think it was telegraphed well enough
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It is a shame they never had another Zelda games in the Twilight Princess world (besides Crossbow Training, lol).

Even if they made one now it wouldn't be the same since it has been 20 years and most of the people who worked on Twilight Princess have moved on.
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snake_5036 posted...
I agree with you. A lot of Ganondorf's speech doesn't reflect what we see in OoT (or any of the games, really) and what the rest of the Gerudo (and people who speak of the Gerudo) say, and everything negative about the Gerudo we hear in OoT can be traced to Ganondorf's actions/decrees. I think showing Ganondorf justifying his actions in his own mind and explaining that to us is a great thing to add, but I find it concerning how many people fall for it and feel bad for him after 3 attempted genocides (Gorons in the child part of OoT, almost all of Hyrule in the adult part of OoT, and Hyrule again in the era without a hero).

I don't think people are meant to feel "bad" for Ganondorf in Wind Waker. It just adds new layers of depth and understanding to his motivations in OoT, making him less one-dimensional.

Plus TWW Ganondorf isn't really the same person he was in OoT, so it's hard to compare them when so much had changed. Centuries have passed and he's had a lot of time to reflect. I think TWW does a good job at conveying his growth from an ambitious diabolical tyrant to an old man who's still just as ruthless, but also perhaps a bit wiser and more melancholic.

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Current Events » Did you like Ganondorf's inclusion in Twilight Princess?