Can you consider a game to be "good" if mods are nearly necessary?

fallout nv is good without mods, even if it is sometimes broken

skyrim is not good without mods

Depends on if the mods are bugfixes/tech opti or new content

If a game needs new content to be good, it's a bad game. If a game needs help running smoother and is otherwise a blast, it's good.

A single ranking for two separate things will be a bit janky since it doesn't capture the nuance behind the ranking.

Said no, I'll associate the vanilla game as the product. If outside user content is needed to work then it's a good game engine but not a good game. I can still enjoy it like one after whatever mods but it's always a "good game" with an asterisk, which is different.

I know this feeling from Skyrim

Needs combat/mechanic mods. It's a good game but I'll always mention the mods so it's full disclosure.

If I have to rate the game it'll probably be the modded score not the vanilla score, but mentally I'll assign it an arbitrary penalty. The game has native support for modding though so not a big penalty.

Most other games I've played the mods are just a fun diversion so they weigh almost nothing.

Honestly, it depends on if the game is supposed to have mods through developer encouragement.

The Sims, for instance, has a huge modding community because EA legit encourages people to create their own things. Finding mods is part of the game, really.

Skyrim, however, is but a decent game when left vanilla - and if you're playing on a console, you're SOL. I know I'm far from the only person who will start up a new Skyrim file every 3-4 years, get bored after 20-30 hours, give up and wonder what the hell I was doing whenever I go back, repeating the cycle anew.

I would say it's "good with mods" but not "good" period

the qualifier is necessary

I only need two things to perfect my Binding of Isaac experience.

The mod that tells you what each item does, cause I don't want to keep looking at the wiki.

And the Specialist dance mod for when you find a good item.

one very niche example i'm personally invested in is 200% Mixed Juice, a short pseudo creature collecting retro jrpg that happens to have online pvp. i really like it, though i've also been involved with doing a balance overhaul patch for online use which i consider "essential" for it specifically, rebalancing close to everything and making a few more units playable, rectifying some overpowered unit issues that were never patched out officially

i would definitely still say i consider the game really good without it though, especially since it was only done to iron out balancing quirks for one side of the game, obviously it's not an issue for the singleplayer (save for missing out on some minor/boss units being playable). it's an odd matter though since while the singleplayer IS the main draw for the game, the main reason the multiplayer isn't a bigger one is just because the game has no playerbase...

still yeah i don't think a must-have mod necessarily covers the full scope of "this game cannot be played without it", it can depend on what it's for. if you are playing something where the core gameplay experience is a hot mess without them then yeah that'd be something i'd very much be reluctant to praise

If a game is good it's good. I don't care if it was finished by the original developers or fans. To me this is almost like asking "if a game sucked in beta but is good now, is it actually good?"

Xuxon posted...

If a game is good it's good. I don't care if it was finished by the original developers or fans. To me this is almost like asking "if a game sucked in beta but is good now, is it actually good?"

well no because when you download the product, you aren't needing to add extra stuff to make it good.
like that's the main sticking point to vanilla versus not, it's the "out the box" versus "tinkered with."