Lopen posted...
Psychological testing, as in like, design of studies designed to approach psychological norms and stuff. It's actually a field of study on its own and isn't simple. It's because there's just a ton of variance in how people react to things creating a standardized testing set is difficult. It's brain chemistry sure but there are things in the personality, experiences, relationship with the person giving the advice, etc that influence how people are going to take any given treatment.
You're right, there are so many variables that affect how a person copes with anything really. Like genetics plays a part, trauma, diet, lifestyle, mood, it so far has been hard to pin point the exact reasons/causes for mental illness. So far what we know is that all of that can play a part. At what level each plays a part is unknown and it's something we as a species are still trying to figure out.
Lopen posted...
So I mean when you say "you're objectively wrong to ever be anything 100% but loving and supportive at all times when dealing with people who suffer from depression" to me feels like you read some studies and are taking way more from them than you maybe should. They are generally broad strokes and I highly doubt any formal studies have been compared between "total love and compassion" vs "harsh but trying to be helpful" and even if there were it would be of dubious use to cite because everyone is different.
I mean that isn't what I said, and I think you're conflating love/support with something else, because being harsh while trying to be helpful doesn't necessarily mean you're not being loving or supportive. Because again, people can and do express themselves differently. Being loving and supportive is about making sure the other person feels heard, knows that you're there for them, and helping with what you can/are comfortable within your own personal boundaries.
For example, let's say you have an adult child that is addicted to drugs and they've spent the better part of the last decade stealing from you to support their habit. You'd be well within your right to kick them out and I wouldn't think you were any less loving or supportive of them for that. It depends on how you handle it, like if you found out your kid smoked a joint one time and disowned them I would absolutely never believe you ever loved or supported that child, but with kicking out your adult child and telling them that they are not welcome to live there due to their actions but you are more than willing to help them find the resources they need to stay safe and/or get clean, 100% absolutely loving and supportive in that situation.
Lopen posted...
Some people simply do respond better when told more bluntly and a support circle that is too kid gloves with them can put them into an apathetic state or a state where they get some sort of form of community by being one who suffers from depression which itself can be harmful. I can't cite a study on this per se, only anecdote. But I feel anecdote when taken with some use of empathy and intuition, as psychology goes, is useful, because it's simply not something we can approach purely statistically yet. Maybe in the future we'll develop ways to measure things beyond "you are not producing enough of this chemical or are producing too much of this other one" but at the moment we aren't there yet.
As for this, I personally believe it is more of a time and place kind of thing. From my experience when people are in a more depressive state being harsh on them doesn't help and making them feels worthless when they are already doing that to themselves only makes ot worse, but when they are a bit more together sitting them down and making sure they hear what you need them to hear is easier because they can be more receptive.
Lopen posted...
But this is just musings from a guy who grew up in a poor community and has a lot of experience dealing with people who have depression in close personal relationships as a result, has struggled with depression himself despite not currently identifying as someone who is suffering from it, and has taken some courses (I took quite a lot of them because I find it interesting but not enough to have a degree just fill a bunch of elective slots in my degree). There are some people I would never be as bluntly harsh as I have been with you here, but although we aren't close I do know you at least a little over the years here and my perception was you could take it at worst wouldn't be harmful. And there are some people that I know where I know receiving that kinda input from me or others has legitimately helped them (myself included from around 5 years ago, again, if I count) so I figured I'd give my two cents just in case it did help at all.
I mean typically when I am "normal" there isn't anything anyone can say to me that won't roll off my back, but when I am in a depressive state even people trying to empathize make me feel worse because I start to believe they are just faking it and they don't actually care and blah blah blah. It's a really fucked up thing to go through.