Anagram Ranks Anything* Persona-related (spoilers)

I like this line of topics I do, but I haven't had time to do one lately. Last time, we had a nice topic get all the way to 500 for Blizzard Entertainment games, and I thought "what's another series that B8 likes that I can talk meaningfully about?" So far, we've done Star Wars, Star Trek, Final Fantasy, Flags, Visual Designs, Metal Gear, Pokemon, Legend of Zelda, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Mario, Mystery Games, and Blizzard, so today, we're doing Persona. Will this get to 500, or will it fizzle out early? Only time will tell.

In this line of topics, you nominate one thing at a time related to the series at hand, and then I analyze it with waaaaaaaay too many words, and put it into a tier list. What will be the best and worst Persona-related thing? I can't possibly guess in advance.

* I've only played P3:FES, P3R, P4, P4G, P5, P5R, P4AU, P5S, and P5T. So if you nominate weird crap from the first two games or whatever, you're just going to get a veto.

people saying any jazz song sounds like persona

Shooting yourself in the head to start a battle

The Subway Slammer

Mara

fusion accidents

Yosuke's unreleased queer content

The evolution of the games as they are endlessly rereleased.

Social Links

Persona 5's bad translation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDw6xxIErK4

Hiimdaisy Persona 4 Comic Dub

- The Means By Which All Is Revealed
Social Links: The defining feature of the Persona series, in my eyes. The idea of gaining literal power from your relationships with people makes sense and is compelling, and the idea of mixing your wacky supernatural shenanigans with being a normal person who knows other normal people is great. It makes a little more sense in P3, to be honest, where Igor is like "You will gain power by forging relationships," and then the protagonist does so, and it's like... There are two ways to interpret this. Either the protagonist is a psychopath who is minmaxing his relationships in order to gain power to save the world, and does not actually care about any of these people, or he initially doesn't really care (which fits with his general style) and slowly comes to care about each one. It makes less sense in P4 and P5, as does the conceit of the year-long calendar (in P3, you're counting down to a god's arrival and everything is measured in months, in P4 and P5, it's just kept the same because it worked in P3), but it's fiiiiiiine. The only other series I can think of seeing anything similar to this is, of all things, fucking Danganronpa, but there it's pointless and does not affect the game in any way. Having these actually interact with the game and having the opportunity to write a ton of ancillary characters really fills out the world in a way that other RPGs can't replicate. And P5's best idea was giving the confidants all new bonuses so you're more incentivized to do these... although Ohya's remains utterly useless.

- Mine for the Slammin'!
The Subway Slammer: I have not played Persona 5 X at all, I only know this guy by the memes. And by the memes, he's hilarious. The idea of a villain whose evil plan is just to shove people in the subway and then act like it was an accident is insane. Where did this concept even come from? It's just the pettiest, stupidest concept for a villain I've ever seen. A random guy pickpocketing people is more threatening to society. The scene where he threatens the female lead that he may have failed to shove her this time, but he's going to shove her one day, then disappears into a crowd like a ninja, holy shit, that was maybe the hardest I've laughed at anything Persona-related, I didn't see that coming at all. The idea that they needed to establish that you have to defeat him because you have a vision of him one day shoving a baby down a staircase or whatever, it's like the worst writing I've ever seen for a villain who doesn't even have an evil plan, he just likes being an asshole because he's bored. I can't tell if the writer is a moron or a genius, but I think I love this guy. Like, I can't imagine playing P5X and comparing this guy to Kamoshida. Kamoshida is the height of Persona villains in terms of personal connections and making you immediately care about taking him down, and then there's this guy, whose defining line is "the whole subway's mine for the slammin'! Ahahahahaahahahaha!"
Mara: I was 100% certain this would be the first persona nominated. It is insane to me that Mara is still in the series. It makes complete sense as something from the series' early days, back when it wasn't as popular, but Persona is borderline mainstream at this point. I have seen people who aren't really gamers discuss this series... and there's still this disgusting penis-mouthed chariot monster around. And it's not a HUGE part of the series, it's just a random monster, but you'll see it at least once in every game. I almost can't believe it still showed up in P3R and P5R, this is the kind of thing that gets quietly cut when the series gets popular, and longtime fans joke about it, and it's just STILL here. Like Incubus also has a giant penis, but at least his isn't a human-style penis. Very distinctive design, very disgusting, I love it.

- OMG! We Are SO Awesome!
Shooting Yourself in the Head: I have always assumed this is some weird Japanese cultural thing, like that Japan has a different relationship to suicide than the West? Like if someone made a game where you activate your magic powers by eating too much fast food and getting obese, that would be the American version. But viewing it without that weird cultural aspect, it comes across a little bit like some kind of bizarre edgelord thing? Like, your persona is supposed to be who you truly are and represent your ability to accept what you are... and then you can only get in-tune with it by simulating dying? I don't *quite* get what they're going for here, I'm not sure that the logic of this *completely* holds, but it's definitely a cool idea that does stand out from an RPG wizard using magic by doing hand signals or whatever.

- I Am Thou, Thou Art I...
Deleted Yosuke Gay Romance: It's more interesting to think about how this changes Yosuke's behavior toward Kanji. In the game as it is, Yosuke is just a homophobe. But if Yosuke is also into dudes, then his actions toward Kanji turn into some kind of self-projection/denial thing, which is way more interesting. But it's not in the game, so it's just homophobia, so, so be it. I'm kind of shocked this idea existed at all in a game from 2008, how ahead of its time. You get lesbians all the time, I know that was added in P3P, but a gay romance in 2008 in a mainstream RPG? I guess the reasoning behind this was probably to appeal to fujo female players more than to actually have it as a real option. Anyway, how reasonable is the idea of the protagonist and Yosuke falling for each other? I'm not sure. Yosuke is very clearly the dumb best bro of the game, like Junpei and Ryuji (yes I realize he's smarter than them), and is very clearly written to be your best friend who gets into shenanigans with you. I don't know if evolving that relationship to be something deeper would actually improve the game or not. I wonder why they deleted this option, anyway. Was it just that they were afraid people wouldn't like having GAYS in their game?
P5's Translation: I'm vaguely aware that people were like "some of the meanings/intentions/feelings were changed by the English translation," or that some nuance is lost, but it's like... I don't know. This isn't some FFT situation where it results in nonsensical bullshit. I can generally accept that translations aren't going to be perfect, unless they're intentionally changing the meanings for some reason, which is rare. It does happen, though, but I don't think P5 is an example of that.
Orbit: You'll Never See It Coming: I don't understand what I just watched. 18 million views, really? I like when the security guards do the All-Out Attack animation, I guess.

- Gasp! The Enemy!
Hiimdaisy Persona 4 Comic Dub: You know, if you'd nominated just the comics, that would have been fine, but because you nominated specifically the dub, I had to watch it. And it's fine. I think the comic itself is better than this, it didn't need silly voices, it was fine when you were just imagining the silly voices. But speaking of Hiimdaisy, the fact that she quit making these comics and refused to make anymore, and complained that people associate her with them instead of the later original art she wanted to be known for, is just so tragic. Pardon me for liking something you made, man.
People Saying Any Jazz Song Sounds Like Persona: Is this something people actually do? Like, some Persona songs do sound Jazz-y, but Persona music has a pretty distinct feel to it, doesn't it? I won't lie, I sort of dislike Jazz music. I never listen to it ever. As far as the big genres of music go, it's one of my least favorites. But I do like Persona music, so I guess confusing the two of them is mildly low tier.

- All You Do Is Eat Away At My Life
Fusion Accident: I have literally never been happy to see a fusion accident. In P5R, I always just turned off the stupid prison alarm thing, too. I don't want randomness when I fuse things. I go into the Velvet Room to fuse personas I don't have yet, and select whatever moves I don't already have access to on an existing persona. I have never wanted a random persona with different moves, and I never will, and I can't imagine anyone else does. It's just such an annoyance; I've reset the game over this, too. And it's not a HUGE deal, but why is it even in the game at all? It adds nothing.
Endless Rereleases Changing the Games: I was actually a little shocked at how much P3R was just P3, but with P5's mechanics. They changed almost nothing of the actual story and characters, and yet... couldn't quite manage the atmosphere of the game. Compare this to the FF7 remake, which completely alters the entire gameplay, but sort of captures the spirit and atmosphere of the original, but then fails because they make all of the villains less asshole-ish and no one dies. Where was I going with this again? Oh yeah, well, obviously the actual gameplay parts improve with each new game and rerelease. I'm not really sure if the games NEEDED constant rereleases, though. Like, the time between P4 and P5 is shorter than the time between P5 and now, and there's still zero info on a P6, we're still on rereleases and spinoffs for P5. I don't know, man. Remakes and rereleases, it's like, the game already came out, it had its time, you don't really need to just rerelease things endlessly, do you?

October 4th

(Persona 3 if the meaning is lost)

Romancing Ken

Akihiko (Persona 4 Arena Ultimax)

Koromaru

The prison alarm in P5R actually does have a use. When using specific personas and itemizing them, certain ones can be created into the character's ultimate weapon/guns.

Although, it's advised you save beforehand, and only do it once with each fusion alarm, as it can always be reset after fighting enough battles. [Or in the case of being strong enough, and having auto kill ability from Ryuji's confidant, mowing down enough enemies will bring yet another fusion alarm.]

Morgana

Metis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYMmKXqwHQc

Dark_Silvergun posted...

The prison alarm in P5R actually does have a use. When using specific personas and itemizing them, certain ones can be created into the character's ultimate weapon/guns.

Although, it's advised you save beforehand, and only do it once with each fusion alarm, as it can always be reset after fighting enough battles. [Or in the case of being strong enough, and having auto kill ability from Ryuji's confidant, mowing down enough enemies will bring yet another fusion alarm.]

I had no idea about this, but I assume this is only important on the highest difficulties.

Joker being in smash

- The Means By Which All Is Revealed
Social Links

- Mine for the Slammin'!
The Subway Slammer
October 4th (Persona 3): This is where it all comes together, the one time in the entire game Ken does literally anything. Ken says "Shinjiro, you are responsible for my mother's death," and he says "Yeah okay kill me," and Ken says "okay," but then Takaya says "lmao he's gonna soon anyway, this is completely pointless, btw where is your team's navigator for me to kill," and Ken says "it is I" and Shinjiro takes a bullet for him, and Ken says "ahhhhh I am conflicted." It's a really good scene, and a great way for Shinjiro to go out (I understand that in P3P, he doesn't die and just survives the game, which sounds horrible), but it's a shame that Ken is completely useless after this for the entire rest of the game. But I mean, here's a secret: Akihiko, Fuuka, and Koromaru are all also pointless to the game's actual plot. It's just Aigis, Mitsuru, Junpei, Yukari, and the protagonist who actually affect things, and Yukari is borderline, so I won't hold this against Ken too badly. I like how Shinjiro dies on the anniversary of the event that defined his and Ken's lives, too.
Mara

- OMG! We Are SO Awesome!
Shooting Yourself in the Head
Joker (Smash): It was pretty hype. There are multiple Final Smashes that are just other characters from the series showing up to lend a hand, but the All-Out Attack is like the only time when it's actually appropriate. Joker is annoyingly complicated to play, though. I'm aware that he's one of the best characters in the game, according to the Wiki, he's 12 out of 82, but I could never really use him. I won't lie to you, all of the very complicated characters, I basically just can't play. I don't know, I think we were all excited to see Joker and acknowledgement of Persona. It's sort of an acknowledgement that yes, Persona has eclipsed Final Fantasy as the definitive JRPG series... but that doesn't mean I have any actual ability to use this fucking character. I'm just going to stick with Ness and Captain Falcon, sorry.
Akihiko (P4AU): You want me to rank his appearance in this spinoff game specifically? Well, uh, he's fine. I like the idea that Akihiko and Mitsuru continued to do crazy supernatural adventuring shenanigans, so they dress like insane people, while Junpei and Ken are mostly just normal people, so they dress like regular people, but I'm almost certain that that was an accident by the designers, because Mitsuru seems to realize that her car stands out from other cars. I like how Akihiko is the only person besides Mitsuru who's kept up on his adventuring, so he's who she calls for help. There's also a line in the game where Akihiko is like "a true man isn't defined by his sex!", where I was almost wondering if that was inserted as a response to that one Naoto quote. Honestly, I think sort of the most interesting thing in P4AU is that the P3 cast shows up as adults, instead of just being time traveled directly from their game as teenagers, I know all of the other crossovers do that.

- I Am Thou, Thou Art I...
Persona Pokerap: I appreciate the effort put into making the personas' names match the Pokerap rhyme scheme. It's obvious that personas in general have an element of Pokmon's "gotta catch 'em all" to them, so this does fit as a general concept. But there's clearly not enough anime cutscene to draw from, so a lot of it is just reused or inappropriate to the actual pokerap, and the fact that you only see a small handful of personas in the anime cutscenes means they're very limited in terms of what they can show in-between the persona-naming sequences.
Morgana: It is incredible how Morgana remains a mostly sympathetic character despite having basically only bad qualities. He's a moody asshole, constantly belittling Ryuji for basically no reason, simping for Ann, and getting offended by getting 5% of what he dishes out. Like, he IS better than Teddie. Morgana never becomes completely super annoying, where Teddie often is. But there's never a moment when Morgana is like the best or most interesting character. I'll tell you this, though: it's comical in Persona 5 Strikers how every single character is now completely pointless except for Morgana, and he's only not pointless because someone needs to explain all of the Metaverse logic again. It's a solid game, but all of the returning human characters besides Joker and maybe Futaba are just along for the ride, doing absolutely nothing of consequence. I dunno what you want me to tell you, Morgana is okay. He's fine. He is inoffensive to me.
Deleted Yosuke Gay Romance
P5's Translation
Orbit: You'll Never See It Coming

- Gasp! The Enemy!
Hiimdaisy Persona 4 Comic Dub
People Saying Any Jazz Song Sounds Like Persona
Koromaru: THE single most pointless party member in all of Persona. Koromaru has exactly one moment, which is where he saves everyone because Ikutsuki says "I will crucify everyone except Koromaru because he is a dog," and that's it. Koromaru does nothing for the entire rest of the game, culminating in him not even appearing in the ending (neither does Ken). I feel like he's here just to establish that animals can also have personas, and to be a marketable plush toy. And yet he is still, by technicality, the best mascot character. And don't tell me that Aigis is the mascot; Koromaru is clearly categorized with Morgana and Teddie in the crossover game stuff. I also like how in P4AU, they clearly knew that no one cares about Ken or Koromaru, because they have zero impact on the plot, barely show up, and are a single fighter instead of two. Which is a cool idea, but in the actual game itself, Ken and Koromaru aren't any closer than any other random two characters. They clearly just wanted to include all living Persona characters, and for some reason didn't include Chidori or Fuuka. And don't say that Fuuka is a navigator and can't fight, because they go out of their way to add a sequence where Rise learns how to fight so you can play as her.

- All You Do Is Eat Away At My Life
Fusion Accident
Endless Rereleases Changing the Games
Ken Romance: It is such insanity that this exists. They had to manually add it, too. It wasn't part of the original game, someone in 2009, years after the original game's release, had to go into the code and add dialogue for you to have a relationship with a fourth-grader. And this isn't even some Jojo's Bizarre Adventure thing, where everyone is 15 but looks 45, Ken is just a straight-up elementary schooler, and you're like 16. And they knew it was bizarre! It's not some Japanese cultural thing that doesn't translate properly, the characters in the game itself comment on it. I don't understand how this got into a big mainstream game. It's like when you play Danganronpa Ultra Despair Girls (I didn't mean to have another Danganronpa reference), where it has the most insane sequences ever involving children, and you can't believe this was translated faithfully into English. Not that P3R will ever add FeMC, but if it did, this entire element of her character (being into elementary schoolers) would 100% be dropped. Most you can possibly get is "if we were the same age..." type of dialogue.
Metis: Ugh, The Answer. This is the worst of the four Anti-Shadow Weapons who have names, and--holy shit, Labrys was supposed to be THIRTEEN? I thought she was supposed to be like seventeen. Anyway, Metis sucks. Part of it is that she's confined to the worst part of the main Persona series, The Answer, but part of it is that she just sucks on her own. She does nothing useful, she whines a lot, she's needlessly hostile, and I saw the twist about her identity coming from a mile away. At least she eventually goes away.

The 1966 Ingmar Bergman film, Persona.

Kamoshida

The Velvet Room

yeah fusion accidents are terrible

Morgana telling you to go to sleep

the school concert sequence in persona 4 golden

Urban Fantasy (genre)

Pancakes

Junpei and Chidori's relationship

Calling cards

Uncontrollable Party Members

Hatsune Miku (from Persona 4 Dancing)

Rise's poster in persona 5

colliding posted...

yeah fusion accidents are terrible

Literally never helpful.

- The Means By Which All Is Revealed
Social Links
Calling Cards: It wasn't until I replayed the game that I realized that Ryuji makes the initial one, which is fine because it's an ugly piece of crap, and then Yusuke makes the rest because he's an artist... and it looks exactly the same. Like, Yusuke's one skill that could possibly be useful here ever, and he's exactly as good at it as the delinquent. But yes, these are distinct, cool, and stylish -- everything Persona 5 aspires to be, except also there's an element of messiness to them. I like how they describe the target's sins with silly, flowery language, I like the logic behind them, I like how Akechi is shocked to learn that they're actually a necessary part of the process because he just assumed the others were idiots trying to show off, I like it all.
Suguru Kamoshida: I've said this before, and everyone already agrees: Kamoshida is the height of villains in the series. Adachi, eat your heart out. Kamoshida sets the bar WAY too high for P5, it peaks WAY too early because of him, but what a way to set the stage. The way he immediately makes everything incredibly personal between Joker, Ryuji, and Ann, the way he becomes just the most detestable human being in the universe as soon as you confront him, the way he presents a direct threat to innocent people around you (as opposed to Madarame, whose threat of plagiarizing his apprentices is way more abstract [until he says LMAO I KILLED YOUR MOM at the end], or Kaneshiro, who vaguely harms people but you never really see it in action), like Kamoshida does such a good job of immediately establishing the stakes and that you don't really have a choice except to become the Phantom Thieves, it's incredible how much better he is than everyone else after him, it is insane. And part of it is also how Kamoshida also has actual talent, being an Olympian, as opposed to some scummy yakuza or a fake artist or a boring CEO. And then you have his palace, which is gross and filled with statues of female teenagers' boobs, it's just perfect, every single thing about him is great. Easily the best villain in the series, it's all downhill after he's taken down.

- Mine for the Slammin'!
The Subway Slammer
October 4th (Persona 3)
Velvet Room: Such a fun concept. The games never quite say "yeah this is some kind of dream world made out of human unconsciousness and conception," but you can immediately tell that it's set apart from the normal world and even the magical world you enter. Which is why, if P5 wasn't your first game, it must have been shocking to see the plot actually interact with it, because it is completely, 100% separate from what's going on in the first two games. I like Igor as this weird 'clearly not human but can act like it' character, and all of the attendants are fun... maybe not Marie, but she's not the 'main' one anyway, so it's fine. Admittedly, I never played P3P, so maybe Theodore sucks, I have no idea. Why it's velvet or associated with blue, though, I have no idea. I also like how it takes a different form in each game... If I have one question, though: I get why P3's is an elevator that's always in motion, because you're climbing a tower, and I get why P5's is a prison cell, because you're a felon, but why is P4's a limousine...?
Mara
Junpei x Chidori: I like how Chidori is one of the people who's given up on life, and then learns against her will to start caring again thanks to Junpei's goofy charm. What woman can resist a future Little League coach? I like how Junpei falls in love with her mostly because he's just looking for girls, but then actually learns to like her. Like, yeah, you can cut Junpei from the game, and it won't actually affect the game's plot per se, but he's like the one main character who actually has a subplot playing into the game's theme of the normal people around you not caring and losing interest in the world, so it's fine. So I don't know about how 'well-written' the romance actually is, but it really does lend some heart to the game in a way that is definitely positive. I also like how P3P doesn't let you romance Junpei, because he's too focused on Chidori.

- OMG! We Are SO Awesome!
School Concert (P4G): I like how the other characters imagine that they are in any way relevant to this concert. Like, you are performing with the most popular idol in Japan, no one is going to care about any of you except her. I like how Teddie is completely useless, so he gets the tambourine, that's the instrument I'd be playing, too. And yeah, I like how the crowd roars, because this is exciting, you get to go to a free concert with Rise. It doesn't make any sense that the other characters are competent at playing their instruments, of course, but that's fine. Sure, it would be funnier if everyone sucked except Rise, but the crowd still loved it, but I'm okay with that.
Shooting Yourself in the Head
Rise Posters (P5): It's fun! Unobtrusive if you haven't played P4, fun little easter egg if you have. Funny, I suppose, that Rise in end just decided that yeah, all she wants out of life is to continue doing exactly the same thing she was already doing, just like Yukiko, but that's the way it goes. I don't really 'get' idol culture in Japan, but it's fine. Don't idols have a shelf life of like 5-6 years each? No way she's still relevant in 2016, if she was idoling in 2008.
Joker (Smash)
Akihiko (P4AU)

- I Am Thou, Thou Art I...
Persona Pokerap
Morgana saying Go to Sleep: Everyone always makes fun of this, but I mean... In P3 and P4, it's just the main characters deciding on their own to go sleep or not to go out. And when Morgana is gone for whatever reason, Joker does it, too. It's amazing how having a separate character voice this suddenly turns him into a villain. Does P5X have the owl in your bag doing this? Like, I like how Morgana is more integrated into normal life than Koromaru and Teddie by almost always being by your side, and this is one of the ways that manifests. I don't know, I don't have a problem with this, sorry!
Morgana
Deleted Yosuke Gay Romance
P5's Translation
Orbit: You'll Never See It Coming

- Gasp! The Enemy!
Urban Fantasy (Genre): I'm not going to lie to you, the sum of my experience with this genre is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Does JoJo technically count? I guess I played VtM:B. Does Bullet Witch count? Do ghosts count as magic, I've seen movies with ghosts in the normal modern world. I don't even think of Persona as urban fantasy, to be honest. The normal world and the magic world never interact except at the very end of each game, and I feel like the interactions between those worlds is what defines the genre. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not a fan of this. I like it more than steampunk, I guess, but I'm very anti-steampunk.
Hiimdaisy Persona 4 Comic Dub
People Saying Any Jazz Song Sounds Like Persona
Koromaru

- All You Do Is Eat Away At My Life
Hatsune Miku: I dislike this character, but not even that much. Like, a virtual idol? Who cares. I don't like her design at all, she looks like a character from an anime you've never watched, but even for people into this sort of thing, I think Vtubers have completely eclipsed this sort of thing, right? I have to believe that Hatsune Miku is relevant exclusively because of some kind of grandfather clause of being the first. I mean, really, who likes this character?
Fusion Accident
Endless Rereleases Changing the Games
Ken Romance
Metis

- Please Beat The Shit Out Of Me
Uncontrollable Party Members: This has been a good idea in zero games ever. The only time it's ever a good idea is when the party members basically just don't do anything, and the 'party' is really just window dressing while your main character does everything in an action-RPG, and by this I basically just mean Dragon Age: Inquisition. Like, I don't know about anyone else, but when I fought Nyx in P3, I had to just keep the protagonist as a healer almost the entire time and just rely on the other characters to attack, because I just absolutely could not trust Yukari to heal the party for 600 HP each instead of use a 50 HP healing item on a single target. And let's not even talk about Marin Karin.

- Veto
Persona (1966): Yeah, you really got me here, this is technically Persona-related, but I've never seen this movie, so you get nothing but a veto.

Kamoshida as a villain

Metaphor: ReFantazio

Funky Student

Hiimdaisy Persona comics

The cosmic tower burger

after school clubs

Elizabeth

Burning Men's Soul

https://youtu.be/6plVf2T6AOo?si=dTR1UXQZXXMlJjxs

Kawakami