Politics Containment Topic 469: Cave Story

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Board 8 » Politics Containment Topic 469: Cave Story
Inviso posted...
I'm genuinely wondering what option the Dems had here
The Republicans are in control of government. Think about what options they had.
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
Sent an email to my Senator, Tammy Baldwin today. I know nothing will come from it but I literally feel broken today and needed to get my thoughts in writing to try to work through things myself. Copying it here because why not.
---
Good morning.

I know the odds are low that you yourself will be the one to read it and even lower that I get a response. But after the vote to reopen the government last night I have been in a weird headspace. I need to get my thoughts out there to someone and I hope just the act of doing this will help me feel better.

My name is Steve. I live in Madison, WI with my husband and our son. I have been a lifelong Democratic voter. I have voted in every election I can since the moment I turned 18. I have voted blue no matter who in local, state and federal elections. I have volunteered with the Democratic Party to canvas and make phone calls in 2016, 2020 and 2024 - in fact, I met you in 2024 when you came to greet canvasers in Madison one morning. I truly believe that the Republican party is causing harm to our country, Trump most of all. I need the Democratic party to fight for the rights of all people. And that did not happen last night.

I know that you voted the correct way last night in the fight against the Republicans, but I am beyond dissapointed with your colleagues. And I do not believe that this was done with just the approval of the 8 Democrats who voted yes. I truly believe that there were more than 60 votes available in the Senate and the party was just picking those who would be able to weather the fallout the most.

I'm not even angry, like I was in March when Schumer and some other Senators broke from the party to keep the government open then. This time, I am just numb. I feel shattered. This whole fight was for nothing. Nothing was accomplished. Nothing was gained. And worse - the party just signaled to Trump and Johnson that we will back down from all future fights. That there is no reason to try to negotiate with us moving forward - because we will cave. Just like we always cave.

It truly has me left wondering... why should I bother? Why should I vote for Democrats moving forward when they will do literally nothing to help? When they will just bow down to Trump and give him whatever he wants without a fight? If Democrats will vote for Trump's agenda... then why should I bother voting for them? Bother voting against the Republicans? My choices don't matter if Democrats will not FIGHT when it matters. People's lives are going to get worse based on the vote from last night when healthcare premiums jump for those on the ACA. I am not one of those people. It will have no impact on my life. But I still have become completely disillusioned with the process.

For 20 years, I have been a proud Democratic supporter in every single election.

I literally do not know what I am going to do in the future.
JustLurking posted...
For 20 years, I have been a proud Democratic supporter in every single election.
Oh phew, I don't need to actually read the email anymore since I know you'll keep voting D no matter what you say
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
Tbh that's a good message and I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears.
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
Those emails are maintained by interns and if youre lucky one might open one up and if theres a compelling storyline in there theres a slight chance they might pass it up the chain to their supervisor who then might pass it to their supervisor who will likely then forget about it.

my wife was an intern and that was her role
That's a fair point, Fool. He should probably consider voting for the people who will promise to dissolve his marriage and take his son from him instead.
"Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic
TimeForAction posted...
Those emails are maintained by interns and if youre lucky one might open one up and if theres a compelling storyline in there theres a slight chance they might pass it up the chain to their supervisor who then might pass it to their supervisor who will likely then forget about it.

my wife was an intern and that was her role
I assumed, sadly. I even say at the beginning i doubt she will ever read this. I just feel lost and don't know what else to do.
JustLurking posted...
Sent an email to my Senator, Tammy Baldwin today. I know nothing will come from it but I literally feel broken today and needed to get my thoughts in writing to try to work through things myself. Copying it here because why not.
---
Good morning.

I know the odds are low that you yourself will be the one to read it and even lower that I get a response. But after the vote to reopen the government last night I have been in a weird headspace. I need to get my thoughts out there to someone and I hope just the act of doing this will help me feel better.

My name is Steve. I live in Madison, WI with my husband and our son. I have been a lifelong Democratic voter. I have voted in every election I can since the moment I turned 18. I have voted blue no matter who in local, state and federal elections. I have volunteered with the Democratic Party to canvas and make phone calls in 2016, 2020 and 2024 - in fact, I met you in 2024 when you came to greet canvasers in Madison one morning. I truly believe that the Republican party is causing harm to our country, Trump most of all. I need the Democratic party to fight for the rights of all people. And that did not happen last night.

I know that you voted the correct way last night in the fight against the Republicans, but I am beyond dissapointed with your colleagues. And I do not believe that this was done with just the approval of the 8 Democrats who voted yes. I truly believe that there were more than 60 votes available in the Senate and the party was just picking those who would be able to weather the fallout the most.

I'm not even angry, like I was in March when Schumer and some other Senators broke from the party to keep the government open then. This time, I am just numb. I feel shattered. This whole fight was for nothing. Nothing was accomplished. Nothing was gained. And worse - the party just signaled to Trump and Johnson that we will back down from all future fights. That there is no reason to try to negotiate with us moving forward - because we will cave. Just like we always cave.

It truly has me left wondering... why should I bother? Why should I vote for Democrats moving forward when they will do literally nothing to help? When they will just bow down to Trump and give him whatever he wants without a fight? If Democrats will vote for Trump's agenda... then why should I bother voting for them? Bother voting against the Republicans? My choices don't matter if Democrats will not FIGHT when it matters. People's lives are going to get worse based on the vote from last night when healthcare premiums jump for those on the ACA. I am not one of those people. It will have no impact on my life. But I still have become completely disillusioned with the process.

For 20 years, I have been a proud Democratic supporter in every single election.

I literally do not know what I am going to do in the future.
The eight people who voted for this, excluding Dick Durban, are not up for reelection until 2028. It was only seven Democrats, plus Angus King who is an Independent, and the rest of the party, including Schumer, are chewing them out for this. Keep voting for Democrats. You are a fucking moron if you let this ONE mistake that wasn't even most of the party's fault stop you from voting to kick out the guys who are responsible for taking away the health care in the first place. Also, you aren't considering what the consequences of SNAP funding failing and the loss of freedom of travel due to ATC shortage would have been.
"2001 called, it wants it's message board signature back....." - aarrgus
Bat178 posted...
and the rest of the party, including Schumer, are chewing them out for this.

Citation/Evidence needed
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
There were definitely more Dems who were gonna vote yes, they just strategically decided who was going to take the blame.

I hope Osoff wasn't one of them.

Schumer definitely was, and him trying to make a big huff about how he didn't is pathetic. 2028 AOC primary is inevitable.

https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
Also there's no sense berating someone for feeling disillusioned or upset after something like this happens. It doesn't matter that we've been conditioned to expect things like this.
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
Some good news from SCOTUS to hopefully get morale back up here, they refused to hear Kim Davis's appeal: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-rejects-long-shot-effort-overturn-sex-marriage-ruling-rcna241113
"2001 called, it wants it's message board signature back....." - aarrgus
I didn't even consider the chance that they were going to, lol. I knew they were meeting today, but no matter how in the pocket they are it was never going to happen. I think the good news there is they came out to say hell no so fast , pretty clear they were just putting in the books that they did have a meeting so they could pretend they were humoring it.
https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
Forceful_Dragon posted...
Also there's no sense berating someone for feeling disillusioned or upset after something like this happens. It doesn't matter that we've been conditioned to expect things like this.
What I'm getting at is that giving up over ONE setback and not even trying to throw the assholes that forced us into this situation in the first place out is foolish, especially after what happened earlier last week. If you don't hold your nose and vote Blue, the Reds will keep throwing the US into Morton's Fork situations like this.
"2001 called, it wants it's message board signature back....." - aarrgus
Inviso posted...
I'm genuinely wondering what option the Dems had here

Republicans used every government tool available to them to commit crimes and literally accuse the Dems of the shutdown on Federal websites, and STILL the polls were blaming the GOP and they massively lost the election.

The Dems caved in exchange for a vote that will get shot down and basically raised their hands to say yeah it was us holding it up, actually
Phantom Dust.
"I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado
I don't think anybody here is going to suddenly stop voting because of this, given who's in power. Doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a lot of justified bitching an moaning.

The left needs it's own tea party moment. Hopefully we see the start of that beginning to rise up. I do think Maine is going to be a critical race to eyeball for this.
https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
UshiromiyaEva posted...
I don't think anybody here is going to suddenly stop voting because of this, given who's in power. Doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a lot of justified bitching an moaning.

The left needs it's own tea party moment. Hopefully we see the start of that beginning to rise up. I do think Maine is going to be a critical race to eyeball for this.
Mamdami getting elected to the mayor of New York I believe is the start of the Democrat's own Tea Party Movement.
"2001 called, it wants it's message board signature back....." - aarrgus
UshiromiyaEva posted...
I don't think anybody here is going to suddenly stop voting because of this, given who's in power. Doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a lot of justified bitching an moaning.

The left needs it's own tea party moment. Hopefully we see the start of that beginning to rise up. I do think Maine is going to be a critical race to eyeball for this.

The Democrats are incapable of allowing a tea party movement at scale by this point. Any groundroots groupswhich by definition will have to be on the left sidewill be accused of being whiners closer to MAGA, and proud Dems will reach to Liz Cheneys and former CIA agents to save them.
Phantom Dust.
"I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado
Johnson looks super shook in his press conference this morning and I think it's because this has actually fucked up some of his plans lol.

Can't hold off the Epstein vote waiting for that new TN house Rep in December anymore buddy.
https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Republicans used every government tool available to them to commit crimes and literally accuse the Dems of the shutdown on Federal websites, and STILL the polls were blaming the GOP and they massively lost the election.

The Dems caved in exchange for a vote that will get shot down and basically raised their hands to say yeah it was us holding it up, actually

I understand what happened, Tony. I watched it unfold. I'm asking what they could have done DIFFERENTLY. If your suggestion is "Democrats should have kept the government shut down until 2026 for the NEXT election", then that's your answer. But the Dems winning big on Tuesday ultimately does not matter until the midterms, if the GOP doesn't give a shit and is more than happy to continue hurting people, rather than accept any message contrary to what they're already doing.
Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier.
Inviso
ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Republicans used every government tool available to them to commit crimes and literally accuse the Dems of the shutdown on Federal websites, and STILL the polls were blaming the GOP and they massively lost the election.

The Dems caved in exchange for a vote that will get shot down and basically raised their hands to say yeah it was us holding it up, actually
And WHO will get the blame for shooting down the vote, if your prediction is correct? That's right, the GOP.
"2001 called, it wants it's message board signature back....." - aarrgus
Bat178 posted...
Mamdami getting elected to the mayor of New York I believe is the start of the Democrat's own Tea Party Movement.

I don't want to hang it all just on that single election in case he ends up doing poorly, there needs to be a few more for me to buy in. If it does happen I think that will end up being the moment historically by default, though.

We should hopefully know what's happening in Seattle by the end of the day, too.
https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
Inviso posted...
I understand what happened, Tony. I watched it unfold. I'm asking what they could have done DIFFERENTLY. If your suggestion is "Democrats should have kept the government shut down until 2026 for the NEXT election", then that's your answer. But the Dems winning big on Tuesday ultimately does not matter until the midterms, if the GOP doesn't give a shit and is more than happy to continue hurting people, rather than accept any message contrary to what they're already doing.

Yes. Democrats needed to weather the storm to prevent a permanent apocalypse.

What did they gain by caving exactly? They just won the offyear elections bigly while the GOP took the blame. You think the Republicsns would let the government stay shut down until 2026? And if they did, how do you think those elections would go?
Phantom Dust.
"I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado
ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Yes. Democrats needed to weather the storm to prevent a permanent apocalypse.

What did they gain by caving exactly? They just won the offyear elections bigly while the GOP took the blame. You think the Republicsns would let the government stay shut down until 2026? And if they did, how do you think those elections would go?

The Dems as a party gain nothing by caving; the American people suffer slightly less however. And yes, I do think the Republicans would gladly let the government stay shut down until 2026 because their entire political philosophy benefits from the government being shut down: no social programs that they're against, and the government employees get fucked over as well. Sure, they would EASILY lose the midterms, but the GOP have proven time and time again that they look at the long game, and they're fine with taking losses here and there since the pendulum WILL swing back in their favor within four years, since the voters will forget how shit they are at governing and vote them in because we need a change from the Democrats.
Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier.
Inviso
ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Yes. Democrats needed to weather the storm to prevent a permanent apocalypse.

What did they gain by caving exactly? They just won the offyear elections bigly while the GOP took the blame. You think the Republicsns would let the government stay shut down until 2026? And if they did, how do you think those elections would go?
It stops people relying on SNAP from starving to death and air travel from ceasing. You are not looking at how bad things were actually becoming. Also, if the GOP votes against the ACA or doesn't hold the vote for it next month, it puts the blame squarely on the GOP for taking away people's healthcare.
"2001 called, it wants it's message board signature back....." - aarrgus
Bat178 posted...
Mamdami getting elected to the mayor of New York I believe is the start of the Democrat's own Tea Party Movement.

Many Dems still wont endorse him, even as they crow about the people speaking loud and clear. Lots of Democratic social media figures posting actual racist memes about him, too.

Its pretty pathetic, and undercuts my hope in his movement on a nationwide scale.

Bat178 posted...
And WHO will get the blame for shooting down the vote, if your prediction is correct? That's right, the GOP.

People have already seen what their premiums will be at this point, that vote wont change a single persons mind, unfortunately.
Phantom Dust.
"I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado
Basically Tony, I would FULLY be onboard with the mindset of the Democrats being one hundred percent at fault and being shit/cowards in the wake of last Tuesday...until we saw the Republican reaction to that loss was to double down on the strategy that lost them big time in the elections, including Trump actively and openly suing to keep people from getting SNAP benefits.
Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier.
Inviso
Speaking of Mamdani I hear Trump and the GOP want to strip his citizenship and have ICE deport him
Bat178 posted...
It stops people relying on SNAP from starving to death and air travel from ceasing. You are not looking at how bad things were actually becoming. Also, if the GOP votes against the ACA or doesn't hold the vote for it next month, it puts the blame squarely on the GOP for taking away people's healthcare.

My blue state had plans in place to take care of our people, as did many others. Again, the Republicans were shouldering all the blame for the suffering, despite a massive propaganda campaign. They control all three branches of government, including both parts of Congress. It was on them to act, they would have been forced or the blue wave in 2026 would have been biblical.
Phantom Dust.
"I'll just wait for time to prove me right again." - Vlado
Id like to know when Grijalva will be sworn in.
I need to update my signature.
Bat178 posted...
You are not looking at how bad things were actually becoming
No one is, because it literally wasn't. Youngkin gave out 90% of SNAP payouts between this and last week. And Thanksgiving air travel is not essential.

You will spend the next 12 months yelling at people to believe you that everyone was going to die if the Ds held on for 2 more weeks, and how you majestically saved everyone, and everyone will rightly see you as a yet another shrieking liberal clown.

You simply stopped any chance of an actual popular turn against Trumpism. Democrats voted to raise healthcare costs by 3x more than SNAP. That was you.
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
foolm0r0n posted...
No one is, because it literally wasn't. Youngkin gave out 90% of SNAP payouts between this and last week. And Thanksgiving air travel is not essential.

You will spend the next 12 months yelling at people to believe you that everyone was going to die if the Ds held on for 2 more weeks, and how you majestically saved everyone, and everyone will rightly see you as a yet another shrieking liberal clown.

You simply stopped any chance of an actual popular turn against Trumpism. Democrats voted to raise healthcare costs by 3x more than SNAP. That was you.

Not going to lie. I would have selfishly been more than mildly infuriated if my Thanksgiving trip to Australia was cancelled because of air travel being non essential. Holiday aside, it would have cost me about $6k in flights and hotels. Even if we got fully reimbursed (we would lose some of it for sure), there's not an alternative date I could move it too as that's the only time my wife can get a prolonged period of time off work.
Bat178 posted...
What I'm getting at is that giving up over ONE setback

"One"?

As this isn't just the latest in a lifetime of watching Democrats refuse to dig in on behalf of the things that they were elected to do?

ACA was only fragile in the first place because the Dems in 2009 refused to use their majorities to enact a significant single payer option that could have actually meaningfully affected health care in our country.

Please don't point to the latest act of cowardice and try to convince us it's the very first one.

I understand there are some minor benefits, such as republicans having to actually go on record with an ACA vote which will age very poorly as early as January, but everything else they "got" was literally nothing.

The illegal RIFs were already being fought and overturned in the courts. The back pay was already guaranteed. The SNAP funding had already been partially secured and could have been fully secured by the courts, but the optics on Trump suing to avoid finding SNAP was politically incredible.

They traded their position for a handful of magic beans and in the best case scenario the ACA will make for a pretty wimpy bean stalk.
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
Shattered posted...
Not going to lie. I would have selfishly been more than mildly infuriated if my Thanksgiving trip to Australia was cancelled because of air travel being non essential. Holiday aside, it would have cost me about $6k in flights and hotels. Even if we got fully reimbursed (we would lose some of it for sure), there's not an alternative date I could move it too as that's the only time my wife can get a prolonged period of time off work.

That's understandable, but in that scenario who are you considering to be responsible?
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
wallmasterz posted...
Id like to know when Grijalva will be sworn in.

As soon as that other Republican wins so they can avoid the Epstein petition.
This isn't funny Dean, the voice says I'm almost out of minutes!
~Alexandra
Dancedreamer posted...
As soon as that other Republican wins so they can avoid the Epstein petition.

That's December 7th. Not even Mikey can manage that.
https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
Shattered posted...
Not going to lie. I would have selfishly been more than mildly infuriated if my Thanksgiving trip to Australia was cancelled because of air travel being non essential. Holiday aside, it would have cost me about $6k in flights and hotels. Even if we got fully reimbursed (we would lose some of it for sure), there's not an alternative date I could move it too as that's the only time my wife can get a prolonged period of time off work.
This would've been an incredibly great thing for the future of our country
_foolmo_
he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance
Forceful_Dragon posted...
That's understandable, but in that scenario who are you considering to be responsible?

Republicans
Dancedreamer posted...
As soon as that other Republican wins so they can avoid the Epstein petition.
That's not how it works. Grijalva will be the 218th person supporting the discharge petition, which needs support from a majority of the House to force the vote. Adding another Republican does not make 218 less than half of 435.
Congrats to 2020 GotD Guru champ azuarc!
Do recall that Bat178 is 14
"Bordate is a pretty shady place, what with the gangs, casinos, evil corporations and water park." - FAHtastic
https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m5c4qrgtqc2d

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/07447371.jpg
https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
He's in my doghouse recently, but more of this energy overall would be nice
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person?
#theresafreakingghostafterus
I've seen some people say we gotta kick Jeffries, but I imagine those people haven't seen his approval rating in the district that actually voted for him. He's not going anywhere.
https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
he should not be the face of the party though
If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person?
#theresafreakingghostafterus
Solid 4 seconds contemplating if he could say fuck no on television.

https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m5c7z6ycyd2m
https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
...You know as shitty as caving is....I do not think this is gonna shift the needle against the Dems if this data is anything to go by.

https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1987902754162119007?s=20

1951. Jeeeeesus.
https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
Apparently the plan is to have the House vote on Wednesday for whatever the Senate passes, assuming things don't get held up.

On an unrelated note, Trump has said he wants to give every household $2000 tariff refund checks. This would be more than the amount collected in tariffs. And since we pay the tariffs, we'd essentially be getting our money back. Brilliant...
"That was unnecessarily dramatic". - NY Mets motto (courtesy of InnerTubeHero)
Congratulations to azuarc, the guru of gurus and winner of GotD 2020!
Besset came out afterwards to say that it wouldn't be literal checks but...."money returned through savings elsewhere".

So basically bullshit lmao.
https://youtu.be/d2qp2scgc_4?si=7k54z8xFv75JQ9ya
https://youtu.be/qj9p6IFSlnk?si=cZ5L4OPM0TjVjwCD
Theres a lot of chatter about the $2000. When people hear that they think itll be something they can deposit into their account but may not even be in the form of a check.
Savings on what? Tariffs is going to make shit continue to cost more and more
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
Board 8 » Politics Containment Topic 469: Cave Story
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