Lurker > andel

ironman2009 posted...

that doesn't mean he's top 2

he was arguably top 3 at the end of the 49ers superbowl run which is what i actually claimed

HashtagSEP posted...

Oh, so you want the post where you say Stalin got a bad rap?

he wasnt a bumbling idiot and the soviets breaking the nazis was absolutely what influenced the nazi defeat more than anything. which part of that do you take issue with?

SAlYAN posted...

Biden got lucky. He was a known quantity after Obama, and was a direct result of people begging to go back to "business as usual" after 4 years of Trump being a dumbass, a year of lockdowns, and COVID killing a solid 9/11 worth of people a day for months. It had nothing to do with him being "grandfatherly," it was people scrambling back to a known quantity after 4 years of fucking around and finding out.

As 2024 demonstrated, clearly that isn't good enough in the long term.

we occasionally elect non charismatic presidents. people liked biden because he was folksy and grandfatherly kinda like they liked charisma void dubya for being 'relatable'

nothing is good enough longterm since a potus can only serve two terms and it is really hard to replace a charismatic potus

Krojen posted...

You said Burrow is the only QB with an argument to be ahead of Purdy for the 2 spot. You did this all offseason.

2 seasons ago when purdy was arguably the mvp and took his team to within an ot td of winning the superbowl?

HashtagSEP posted...

You, of course, continue the topic with numerous posts of "Yes, he was bad, but..." such as

Why can you somehow have a nuanced view of Stalin, but you refuse any nuance whatsoever in this topic?

EDIT: By the way, YOU made that topic. Nobody asked what you thought of Stalin. You just decided that was a pretty cool topic to make, apparently.

none of that is praise for stalin, it is acknowledging that he was a good administrator. its like trying to claim that people who call hitler charismatic are defending him. awful people can be good at things too fyi and that is far different than starting a cult over a guy and attacking people that claim he is a shitbag

HashtagSEP posted...

Says the guy with the "Stalin did good things!" topic.

that is an obvious lie and to date no one has provided screenshots of my comments

SAlYAN posted...

I like him and his policies, but his debate with Vance proved he'll be steamrolled by MAGA blowhard in a head-to-head.

The left are really in a nasty catch-22. The only people with the radical policies, charisma, and stage presence to match MAGA are Bernie, AOC, and Jasmine Crockett. And all three are sadly not only doomed to be hamstrung by the party, but also carry way too much "communist radical lefty COMMUNIST NASTY WOMAN" baggage to ever be given a proper shot by our dumbass electorate.

biden beat maga without radical policies and charisma. a folksy grandfatherly type can definitely win. walz is kinda in that category but is tainted by losing. he would be a good potus but someone like newsom would probably be better

DrizztLink posted...

Also, we do in fact has precedent of someone gunning someone down on camera and getting off.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Plauch%C3%A9

he copped a plea deal, the judge just knew they wouldnt get a conviction. he actually had the excuse of being personally aggrieved by that guy. mangione is just an insane trustafarian who wanted to murder someone and cant even articulate why

Finis-XII posted...

The ceo's actions are absolutely 100% relevant. He was a scumbag who deserved what he got. Preferably not in a vigilante merc'd in the street way, but he still did deserve his fate.

And if your only contribution to the Luigi Mangione discourse is "b-b-but murder is BAAAAD", then either you're really far behind in the discussion, or you're clearly trolling.

if you think capital punishment is an acceptable practice i would disagree, but its your opinion. this topic is about people shilling for an unhinged lunatic gunning down someone in cold blood on a sidewalk

ScazarMeltex posted...

I'd rather see Pritzker but I like Walz well enough.

pritzker would be fine but it would be wild if dems just followed the gop template of running a fat billionaire

he likely isnt charismatic enough since american voters only value that and vulgarity, but he would be a good potus

HashtagSEP posted...

I like how TC dropped the act of wanting an actual discussion and just moved to saying anybody disagreeing with him at all is "shilling" for the killer.

Typical andel.

read the topic title and op. if you are defending mangione you are just as shit as the people defending the killsbury doughboy

DrizztLink posted...

I apologize for the inconvenience, but I am not allowed to engage with users who mark me for harassment.

wut

DrizztLink posted...

So only protest if your act of protest will exclusively effect the target.

Like Luigi.

murdering a guy while shilling for elon musk isnt protest

Krojen posted...

andel is adamant that Brock Purdy is a top 2 QB.

Take that into consideration.

if you are itt unironically defending the people shilling for a psycho killer idk what anyone can even say to you

and i never said purdy is a top 2 qb, but he was an mvp candidate two seasons ago

CyricZ posted...

Except when it wasn't.

I'm not saying such drastic change needs to be the first option, but we have absolutely employed it when incremental change wasn't feasible given the circumstances.

We are way too early in the history textbook to make such a claim.

The answer of the Cynic is that there is no line, and never was.

The greater answer is that ultimately, society will decide in the aftermath where the line is.

But really, the problem is you're asking the wrong question.

You're asking "how can we allow this bad thing" and not asking "how can we allow the root causes that led to the bad thing".

the only time incremental change didnt happen was the civil war, where lincoln proposed incremental change to prevent a civil war. if that is the metric i think almost no one would be ok with millions dead to change our shit healthcare system.

we really arent too early at all. there has never been an incident of some loon killing someone and the murderer gaining praise that led to legislative change. the change happens in the other direction if anything since society is generally disgusted by someone murdering another person he hasnt interacted with in cold blood.

society has long since decided that vigilante murder is unacceptable. even if a jury acquits mangione (not happening, the best he can hope for is hanging one or two), society is certainly not in sync with that

Umbreon posted...

I believe I asked this before but...

Are you aware of American history? Yes or no?

are you? making vague retorts doesnt accomplish much imo

CyricZ posted...

Yes it has. Oh BOY has it.

You just had to be the right person, or work for the right institution.

Andel, the reason people are responding to you like this is because you're calling for an order in a time when the system is being disordered.

You are calling for rules in a time when they are being broken left and right by people obliged to uphold those rules.

And your calls are not being answered.

disorder accomplishes exactly nothing here. change in the us has almost always been incremental, and the idea that killing one easily replaceable guy will cause some kind of change is absurd. there will always be a new guy to step into the position left vacant and continue the same kind of behaviors. killing this guy accomplishes less than nothing, it just exposes the killer as a lunatic. the idea that people are mad so somehow murder is ok is devoid of any logic at all

real change in this country has to come through elections and legislation and judicial oversight. there will always be injustice in any society, but murdering people wont do anything but undermine the purported cause of the murderer and end up with their life being forfeit.

change has never come in any society instantly, and extrajudicial murder of some patsy ceo who doesnt control policy wont change that.

i will ask the same question another guy asked that got ignored (and will be likely ignored again). where is the line drawn? is it ok to murder tobaccoo execs? alcohol? gambling? unhealthy food? when is it ok to have a braindead level of bloodlust and when does it become abhorrent behavior?

AnsestralRecall posted...

Unless of course you wear a badge and the one being executed is black

and anyone justifying those people are lunatics as well

Evening_Dragon posted...

Murder is a legal term. So no, they can't legally murder, that doesn't make sense. What happens is that they can legally kill people who posed no real threat. Sometimes they kill the very people who called them for help.

There's a response and a big backlash and a bunch of red tape, but ultimately, they get away with it. Sometime's There's not even that much of a fuss.

The crux of what you're pushing is that The Rules work, but they don't.

you wont ever find me jus
HashtagSEP posted...

Oh wow. TC literally has a topic in their history that is basically "Stalin was bad sure buuuut he did some good things!"

Has topic about finding nuance with Stalin, but for some reason finds it impossible to understand nuance here. Huh.

wut? post screenshots

TheLiarParadox posted...

TC once posted full on holocaust denial trying to answer questions like this. You probably don't want to know the real reason behind the silly shit they say.

this is a blatant lie. my posting history is well known but idk who you

Umbreon posted...

"Idol worship" is absurd, unless you're buying too hard into the memes. If you want literal idolizing, look at the people literally bowing to golden statues of our current president.

And while shooting someone dead is certainly murder, I find it odd that you find the death of one man more brutal than you seem to find the deaths of thousands. You've seen fit to call Luigi multiple condemning words, yet the CEO merely "might be" a scumbag.

Murder is murder? Then why the difference in attitudes towards the alleged and the victim?

it is well established that trump has the worlds largest cult.

there are videos and social media posts of people crying about mangione being arrested.

no one is hand wringing about a healthcare ceo being called a shitbag. you have repeatedly taken offense to mangione being described as such. when people start idol worshipping health care ceos i will create a topic about that, or when people start praising them for denying coverage that leads to death i will also condemn those people as unhinged psychos. my position on healthcare has been fleshed out on this site for over a decade so i didnt feel compelled to address it as it isnt relevant to the topic in the first place.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


mangione committed the murder before trump was in office and the insane worship of him predates that as well.

Unknown5uspect posted...

What do you mean? The police do it daily.

the police cant legally just murder people in the streets either and anyone defending them doing so are also scum

WingsOfGood posted...

you can have your own uninformed ignorant opinion correct

but then spouting it off like it is fact is trolling

literally no one thinks he is innocent, not even you with your poor attempt at gaslighting.

if you think this is trolling mark it and move on

WingsOfGood posted...

you did not see him on video

you were told that he kinda looks like whoever was on that video by the police and you wholly accepted it like a sheep

no, i saw him on video murdering a guy and have also seen an overwhelming amount of evidence that makes it clear he is guilty.

you know he is guilty as well, you are just talking out of both sides of your mouth while celebrating the murder and pretending like he is maybe not guilty while being unconvincing

ai123 posted...

He is absolutely entitled to the presumption of innocence and a fair trial.

We are agreed on that.

in court he is, but certainly not to random non jurors. the presumption of innocence is purely judicial, it doesnt mean that random people cant come to their own conclusions.

ssjevot posted...

The time the nation was fractured the worst it literally fought a Civil War killing more Americans than all the others wars it has been in combined. That wasn't legislation or democratic process. It was shooting people.

yeah, i typed my stream of consciousness there incorrectly. we ended the guilded age through legislation.

WingsOfGood posted...

and you really really want him to go to jail correct?

kinda strange that you don't give a presumption of innocence until proven guilty

now I really wonder why that might be.....

i am not a court of law. if i see someone murdering a person on video i dont have to give a presumption of innocence. would you? because that would be dumb

CyricZ posted...

In a world where certain kinds of killings are legal, the line as to where a killing is illegal is blurred.

gunning down someone execution style in the united states has never been legal

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


trump is uniquely awful in the modern age, but the pro slavery presidents that drove the nation to civil war with insane mismanagement and pacification of the south were also incredibly dangerous as history has shown.

there is no question that trump is a top 2 worst potus of all time imo. the problem is the braindead voters that thought more of him was better than a competent vp and senator. that is kinda off topic tho

WingsOfGood posted...

fyi nobody said "wow I am so glad he killed that guy!"

they instead said "I am not sad that he killed that guy and that guy probably deserved it seeing how he made an a.i. model that is the worst denier of life saving care"
and then people shared myriad of stories of UHC denying care like even a user here talked about how their family member had cancer and UHC deny care

i wasnt here during the immediate aftermath of the murder, but people in the other two topics are absolutely cheering him on and hoping he gets off on a technicality (while not understanding the judicial process at all)

Umbreon posted...

Again, very interesting language you're using.

But funny thing, the media was running this guy constantly in order to get people to fear and hate him. Dude had an unusualy excessive amount of police surrounding him during his prep walk, even had the mayor joining in for some reason?

But then it turns out both the left and the right were unsympathetic towards the CEO and suddenly Lugi's name vanished from the media's lips.

what exact problem do you have with my description in the quoted post? are public, on camera executions brutal in your estimation?

the mayor of nyc being a slimeball opportunist or a perpwalk doesnt have any bearing on the moral question of gunning someone down on a public walkway.

AnsestralRecall posted...

We are far past the point of this being realistic without the use of extralegal actions that will make the ruling class have to listen.

we are not. this nation has been fractured worse than it is now and much more inhospitable for all but the rich and these things were made better vis legislation and the democratic process. the gilded age ended and the insane stranglehold the rich had ebbed incrementally.

change is never a snap of the finger, it has to go through the process. all the best places to live in the world have a similar process, though some arent as broken or corrupt.

HashtagSEP posted...

And people aren't praising him for that.

Hell, they're really not praising him, directly, at all.

He's a figurehead for an action they find sympathetic. That's pretty much it.

There's a reason people run to "But look at this other stuff!" when they want to push a dishonest argument against that premise.

that kind of logic is absurd and your second line is obviously false. legions of people are celebrating mangione and some are idol worshipping him

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


sure but apathy isnt the same as enthusiastically supporting the murderer.

Tmaster148 posted...

When America starts prosecuting the wealthy for killing people, we won't need Luigis.

america does prosecute wealthy people for murder. see robert durst or any number of other wealthy convicted murderers.

if you mean we need institutional changes to prevent awful practices from being legal, i agree with that. you cant prosecute people for things that arent illegal, you first have to make those things illegal.

i support ending private healthcare in the us altogether, but to get to that point you have to have legislative support. to get legislative support you have to have some support from the finnicky right wing moderates in the us (for reasons like the electoral college and the archaic senate and to a lesser extent house electoral rules). while most of the nation supports some form of universal healthcare, they definitely dont support the idol worship of brutal murderers like luigi mangione.

WingsOfGood posted...

correct

you dont seem to understand how russian disinformation works if you think they just advocate for what they actually want. they exist to foment dissent in the united states and other places they wish to destabilize

Dungeater posted...

not good enough.

good enough will never exist in any facet of existence.

Dungeater posted...

we arent. just specific bad people, bad people poisoning society and killing uncountably high numbers of people

seems illogical and self defeating to me.

Tmaster148 posted...

So we have to ignore the CEO who was running a company that had the highest rate of denying life saving healthcare. So your life only matters if you have money.

we tend to ignore how big of a scumbag a murder victim was, yes. murder is murder regardless of the victim. most victims of mob/gang violence are also bad and violent people, but we still prosecute and incarcerate the murderers and people generally dont seem to have an issue with it.

Umbreon posted...

As an aside... I can't help but notice the power that be's reactions to school shootings: Them telling children that their lives are a small price for ""freedom"", via their inaction.

And the reaction to one CEO being shot: Increased security, CEO names from certain other companies being removed, trauma hotlines dedicated for consoling other CEOs.

"A million is a statistic"?

the ultra rich and politicians being scum shouldnt be surprising, but they still shouldnt be murdered in the streets. where does the rationalization stop? should paroled murderers be shot in the streets? verified members of the mob and street gangs? the secretary that worked for this guy mangione shot since they were enabling his behavior? where does it end?

Dungeater posted...

tc i am assuming you are of means

this act doesnt exist in a vacuum - a decades-long war against american citizens' health, combined with ignored pleas for change, led us here

people arent cheering because of "murder"

theyre cheering because of the sentiment. these people have killed, destroyed, and siphoned the wealth of countless people, for ages. they were untouchable. one of them was touched, hard. thats what people are cheering. non violence does not and will not work. so when the rare person takes that extra step, people will be very, very forgiving

no act of violence exists in a vacuum as there are always extenuating circumstances.

our health care system being ratfucked doesnt mean that these people 'were untouchable'. health care executives have been prosecuted and served prison time, and this isnt hard to confirm at all.

if we devolve into just being ok with murdering bad people our society will continue to devolve into an absolute hellscape. wantonly murdering people is never an acceptable solution

Umbreon posted...

TC going out of their way to NOT address the CEO's actions making me think they're not here for an honest discussion.

(Actually the first post did, but I was giving the benefit of the doubt.)

the ceo's actions arent relevant at all. you cant murder people in the streets even if they are terrible people. should we allow paroled murderers to be gunned down at will? obviously a society cant operate if people gun down those they dont like and have mobs cheering for them to go free and do it again

Southernfatman posted...

Lots of people don't have much sympathy for an even bigger murderer being murdered. If the government/courts/cops would do their jobs and not allow our rotten healthcare system amongst other horrible things done by the rich to get more money instead of outright supporting them, then certain people wouldn't feel the need to result to vigilantism. Certain folks also aren't going to clutch pearls because a rule was broken in our rotten status quo that so many defend. Where's this outrage and pearl clutching when so many die due to lack of health care?

not having sympathy is fine, celebrating an unhinged murderer is not just a lack of sympathy.

roughly 200 million people (maybe more) want to reform our awful healthcare system according to consistent polling for years. the population keeps electing republicans despite being against our broken healthcare status quo. this has nothing to do with some lunatic murdering people in the streets and the very weird jubilation some have shown

SilvosForever posted...

Probably because through his illegal action society was made a (slightly) better place.

so he stopped a practice by murdering that guy?

AnsestralRecall posted...

It's not legal, but the murders that happened under Brian Thompson's leadership are far more numerous and far crueller, yet remain legal

His hands were stained with far more blood than Luigi's ever could be

and mangione publicly murdering the guy accomplishes nothing. another guy will just take his place. actions like that only marginalize your position if you are mangione. legislation is the answer, not publicly murdering someone

Umbreon posted...

Interesting language here. You call Luigi, the alleged (Innocent until proven guilty by a court of law) killer a "psycho".

Yet you say the CEO "may have been" a scumbag.

If you find a person killing someone to be objectionable, an understandable stance, then would someone who's responsible for the deaths of thousands be more despicable than someone who's responsible for one?

i am not a court of law and i saw a video of him murdering a guy. i didnt call him a convicted murderer so my assessment is obviously and demonstrably correct.

no need to use weasel words here imo. if you defend the execution of people you dont like you should just own that

bluezero posted...

I have some bad news about health insurance companies

it is not legal to execute someone in the streets and shouldnt be.

if you favor the murder of people you dont like you arent a serious person

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


i am baffled after reading the other two topics that people are openly shilling for an unhinged murderer.

Jupiter posted...

I highly doubt Russian bots were mostly in favor of Luigi.

russian bots will spew any viewpoint to foment dissent. russia hates when democrats have power, and they have no problem taking extremist positions to try and whip up a twitter mob to look unhinged and undermine democrats with 'moderates'

i havent been here in like half a year, but the russia bots and tankie types on twitter were weirdly defending that psycho.

whether or not the guy he murdered was bad really isnt relevant as you cant just murder people in the streets. it blows my mind that people are falling for obvious russian propaganda talking points just because the murdered guy may have been a scumbag

i am a very longtime ceman and an og 261 but am not on that list

absolute lunacy

voting for something like that is just dumb, especially when she publicly announces her reasoning is naked political ambition

revolutions are almost always bloody affairs that leave countless innocents dead or destitute, so they should generally be avoided. obviously there are a precious few exceptions when the status quo is even worse.

trump is awful for the us and world, but we will be rid of him in 4 years at least. the bigger problem is the dipshits that vote for him

OrangeCrush980 posted...

Depends on the exact situation. But generally speaking, probably.

this. being a mobster/gangster/gang member is not the same as just doing illegal things for a living. when violence is involved it dramatically escalates the level of moral failure

trumps own awful health/diet. he wont be removed from power since the gop are feckless cretins who just bow down to anything he does.

democrats are pathetic at the moment, and a lot of that is self inflicted as always but a lot has to do with russian propaganda and general propaganda. democrats always have to own our crazies while the gop somehow get their elected while being able to simultaneously disavow them

never take twitter users opinions seriously

lera lynn wolf like me

https://youtu.be/vwVX4cG6F9s?
si=7mkCuT_Qh1qXMHQG

Umbreon posted...

Were you around when CE got quarantined?

yes i just havent been around in the last few months

anything?