Lurker > Anagram

I Am Grateful You Were Born
Yasuhiro Hagakure
Hobonix
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
Yomiel
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Dual Destinies
Sonia Nevermind
The Panic Dance
Sean
Zak Gramarye
Funyarinpa

Objection... able
Gravel in the Swimsuit
@aceattorneygame
Improved Hangman's Gambit
Sigma x Phi
Narumitsu: It's nuts how asexual and platonic this series is, when "murdering for love" is such a trope. I don't think there's a single case in the entire series where the motive for murder was about love or cheating or anything? I know that para is violently pro-Phoenix/Edgeworth shipping, but I'll be honest: if I was going to ship any of these characters, it'd be Phoenix x Maya or Phoenix x Iris. The fact that we get no real closure on Iris after she confesses her feelings to Phoenix is crazy. Edgeworth is 100% gay, though.
Danganronpa Kill/Cure
Meat On The Bone
Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney

Life is Simply Unfair
AA2-3: I assume this was nominated because I complained about it. Unlike, say, 4-3, 2-3 is bad because all of the characters are awful. It's that simple. All of the circus-specific characters are just the worst, except for maybe Max Galactica, who reaches the lofty heights of fine. Moe is awful, Regina is awful, Benjamin Woodman is awful, and Acro is the most boring character in the entire series. Like, the idea of him being a calm, unflappable guy is good, but the actual execution is that he's just a guy. They never address the contradiction that he feels indebted to the ringmaster, but also wants to murder his daughter, and any feelings he might have about that, or any guilt he might feel about how the police arrested Max for his crime. The idea that he has the murder weapon hidden on him because he couldn't get rid of it is good... except that that was already done with von Karma in the first game. And like, I'm sorry, but introducing Acro on day 2 is just cheating. Yeah, I know he's briefly mentioned on day 1, but they clearly wrote around seeing him because of how obviously he's the murderer. And I'm sorry, but why does he look like a Native American? That's not just me, right? He clearly looks like a Native American for some reason. The only good moment in the case is him finally crying as his emotions overwhelm him at the end of the case. And the idea that Regina is a teenager who doesn't understand literally anything outside of the circus is just dumb, and it's the crux of the entire motive for murder. Regina has the mind of a five-year-old, and it's not a small part of the case, and it's so, so dumb. And this is the last time in the entire series you ever have a proper case against Franziska all the way through! I'm not in love with Franziska or anything, but she deserved a better final case than this. This still isn't the worst case in the series, though. I'm not even sure if it's in the bottom five.
Benjamin Woodman
Seesaw Effect
Complex Motives
The Snail: I get what they're going for here. The whole series is about branching timelines that occur thanks to the smallest divergences. No one thinks about snails, so they're a perfect example of something minor causing huge effects. Here's the thing, though: no one cares. The idea that every single bad thing that happened in the series happens because of a snail randomly moving onto a road is the stupidest thing. You could do this seriously, change this out for like, I don't know, a kid not studying for a test and doing poorly and it changing the course of his life, which has further effects, etc. But making it a random snail makes it difficult to care about what's happening because it's just so damn stupid.
Character Models (Zero Time Dilemma)
Ending (Zero Time Dilemma)

Ultimate Despair
Ending (PLxPW)

I Assure You, it's Quite Based
DR2-5
AA2-4
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations
Ending (Danganronpa V3)

Top Pomeranian
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
Chiaki Nanami
Funny Wrong Dialogue Choices
Doki Doki Literature Club
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Spirit of Justice: Better than 2 and 5, worse than 1 and 3. I'd say there are a lot of disappointing elements to this game: Nahyuta is a completely boring asshole who does nothing new, the game has absolutely no idea what to do with Athena (at one point, Phoenix even comments that he and Apollo are the only lawyers in the country, when Athena is also in the room), the game is built around Apollo having a THIRD secret backstory, the DLC case is garbage, and we're advertised an epic return for Maya, and then she's barely in the game at all. But then the game says "actually, let's be good," and then it gives us the Dhurke twist, or the most bullyable assistant ever, or the super brief Apollo vs Phoenix case, or an enemy lawyer who can just change the rules whenever she wants, or Phoenix violently thrusting out his arm and screaming objection at guards and them flying backwards, or the animations for Rayfa's mother switching between "enlightened superbeing" and "angry lightning flashing behind her" are amazing, and I'd say the midgame filler cases, 6-2 and 6-3, are actually the best in the series for midgame filler cases? And the idea of having to travel to this foreign semi-backwater mystical country and be out of your element is also good. But the game squanders so many of its own ideas. Ga'ran is terrible and not a good villain (although she has the best transformation in the series, when her handmaidens step in front of her, step aside, and she's suddenly in evil mode) and uses her ability to create new laws in dumb and ineffective ways, we get YET MORE Trucy backstory when we already had an entire game for that. And then there's Rayfa's father have prosopagnosia, which is a cool twist, and the idea of someone having face blindness and not wanting to admit it, that's a twist you can build an entire case around, and it's just kind of thrown in there and forgotten about. And like, yeah, Nahyuta. If not for Klavier, he'd be the worst prosecutor in the series. He's still almost as bad as Klavier. The idea of him pretending to be this enlightened being who still gets angry and snaps occasionally is good, but he never once comes across as being actually intelligent. And like, why do we even need him in every case anyway? This game has five cases pre-DLC. Cut the first because it's a Payne case, and that's four cases where Nahyuta plays a central role, which is more than any other prosecutor in the series besides Edgeworth (I guess Blackquill ties). Just have Nahyuta be the prosecutor in the Kuh'rain cases, and have someone else be the prosecutor back in America. Have it be Klavier or Blackquill, even! Like, why do we NEED this much of Nahyuta? Just so he can imply that he knows Apollo a lot before we're finally told the whole story at the end? ... but goddammit, that Dhurke twist just makes up for everything. It's just so fucking perfectly done that it makes up for everything just on its own.
Random Fact Conversations (Zero Escape)
Bad End (Danganronpa 1)

Don't Doubt Yourself
Dance of Deduction
Presenting Character Profiles
Lynne
Franziska von Karma
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice for All
Junpei Tenmyouji
Jury (GAA): I love it. It's basically just an excuse to include a lot more wacky characters to interact with, but that's all it needs to be. Each jury member having their own personalities that you need to appeal to is a cool idea, and the idea of Ry... Phoenix's grandfather having to travel to another continent to see how different things are is also cool. They do a mostly good job of having all of the jury members be unique and interesting, even if some things didn't seem to pay off correctly (I was waiting the entire second game for the communist guy to do something). Like, as far as game gimmicks go, GAA giving us jury interactions and the Dance of Deduction was a great idea. Like, it's definitely more fun than Rayfa summoning the past for you to look at and pick apart.
The Miracle Never Happen
AA5-6
Genocide Jill
Miu Iruma
Ghost Trick Animations: I hope no one minds me combining the Cabanela Hard Hat and Chicken Eating nominations into one. Like, what do I say? This game is constantly clowning on basically all other sprite games by just doing the most complicated, elaborate stuff just to show off. I'm sure some other game has more complicated animations, but what it is, I don't know. This is also what gives the game some more personality beyond what Phoenix Wright has, since that game famously has no animation at all whenever it can get away with it. Like, if Phoenix was in Ghost Trick and had to throw a phone to Edgeworth, I get the feeling they would've done more than spin a JPG of one on the screen.
Monokuma
Japanifornia
Perjury (Danganronpa): Again, this is a secret key difference between AA and DR. AA makes it unambiguously clear that the best thing to do is to always tell the truth, but in DR, it's a little more ambiguous. This would have been a more fun mechanic if it was used more, in actual practice I was always surprised to find it worked and had to be like "oh yeah, I can do that, I totally forgot." In my DR playthrough topic, someone linked to a compilation of all of the optional perjuries, and the fact that there actually are entire chains of dialogue where a character realizes you lied to them, but can't take back how they responded and realize they're cooked, shows a lot of effort put into this. But in actual practice, the only time this ever feels meaningful is in the fourth case, where you have to lie about seeing Kokichi in a room, he's shocked you would lie to frame him, realizes he can't actually prove you're lying, and then decides to ruin the entire trial and make it as miserable as possible for everyone. That's such a strong moment, but man, it is the only moment like that. I hope if they ever make a Danganronpa 4, they'll expand on this mechanic.
Original Cases in Fanfiction
Objection (Website)
Sissel

I just remembered the scene where Volgin grabs your crotch and realizes you aren't his boyfriend. Wonder if that'll stay in.

Torterra/Kangaskhan
Centiskorch/Haxorus
Talonflame/Manectric
Aron/Dusknoir

Rain

I have no memory of nominating this at all.

I Am Grateful You Were Born
Yasuhiro Hagakure
Hobonix
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
Yomiel
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Dual Destinies: "Everyone hated when we did something different. Go back and make the exact same game as the first three, with no risks at all." Credit where it's due: they knew not to bring back Maya, and they didn't just chuck Apollo into a trashcan. But this is the start of Apollo having a completely different backstory in every game, and we add a new character, Athena, who's halfway between lawyer and assistant, but does neither thing as well as the actual lawyers or actual assistants. I do like Athena, though, and she has probably the best expressions of any of the assistants. I like the lawyer high school, as insane an idea as it is, I like that entire case (I assume trans people probably have things to say about the girl in it, but I'll let it slide). I HATE the case where you have to defend the guy pretending to be a magical spirit. The first case is... fine. It's not amazing, but it's passable. I like the astronaut stuff, that's fun. The epic case is, I don't know, something. It's not awful, I know there are people who hate the Phantom, and I agree that it's not done as well as it could have been, but it's not AWFUL. Like, yes, we should have met the real Fulbright, and the Phantom replaces him midway through the game, and in the final case Phoenix can find an unidentified body whose face is messed up or whatever and be like "woah who is this who has the exact same body size as Fulbright, do you have any idea, Fulbright?" As it is, yes, the character of Bobby Fulbright ends up being another Mad Eye Moody, where it turns out you never met the real person, so you don't really care that he dies. But like, fine. That's not ruinous to the case, it's just bad. What actually is kind of ruinous is that Phoenix just reverts to his old self, as if the entire previous game didn't happen. I love how when the characters are all aghast at the Aristotle professor making fake evidence, the only one who can't really take a stand against it is Phoenix, though the game doesn't really play into that. Ah well. It's made up for by the fact that this is the only latter game with a prosecutor who doesn't suck. Klavier and Nahyuta suck, Ga'ran sucks but it's a funny concept to argue with someone who can just change the law whenever she feels like it, so I'm with it. Barnham doesn't suck, but he's irrelevant, while Darklaw sucks super hard. Whoever the rival is in the Edgeworth games also sucks. It's just Blackquill who's good, even though I never understood why they needed to let a felon prosecute cases while he's on death row. That's such a bizarre, funny idea, but Blackquill is just so cool that I don't even care. It's too bad that we have nothing to really do with him after this game. Like, Edgeworth is the DA and Phoenix's rival, Godot is dead, Franziska is off-screen somewhere, and Klavier and Blackquill are just kind of also present. Like, they each show up for one case where they're no longer important. Maybe this is insane, but in AA6-4, it should've been Blackquill prosecuting his own friend instead of Nahyuta. Just have Blackquill show up, say "I need to prosecute my friend, but I want to believe in him, so Athena, I'm hiring you to argue against me in court lmao." It would've been way cooler and more fun than what actually happens. I guess Blackquill is the assistant in that case, so you'd need to find another one, but who cares, just have Trucy or Pearl be the assistant. Wait, I'm complaining about the sixth game, dammit. AA5 does at least have the better of the DLC cases, I guess. The idea of the "Dark Age of the Law" with people distrusting the justice system is interesting, but nothing is really done with it, and it never feels especially present or pressing, even when we are dealing with it directly.
Sonia Nevermind
The Panic Dance
Sean
Zak Gramarye
Funyarinpa

Objection... able
Gravel in the Swimsuit
@aceattorneygame: The official Twitter account for the series? I mean... okay? Sure, I guess. I'm not surprised that it has a Twitter account. I like how it's advertising the "Apollo Justice" trilogy, as if Apollo is the main character. I also like how it heavily advertises Maya, whose presence in the sixth game is barely existent. I don't know, these are kind of too boring for me to care about that much.
Improved Hangman's Gambit
Sigma x Phi: I love how this is the most shot-down ship in the history of fiction. There is no more thorough way to end a potential ship than revealing that one of them is the other's parent. But honestly, even before that? Sigma's way too horny. don't think Phi would've been too into him in the first place. I don't mind some horniness, but there's a limit, man.
Danganronpa Kill/Cure
Meat On The Bone
Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney

Life is Simply Unfair
Benjamin Woodman
Seesaw Effect
Complex Motives
Character Models (Zero Time Dilemma)
Ending (Zero Time Dilemma)

Ultimate Despair
Ending (PLxPW)

I Assure You, it's Quite Based
DR2-5
AA2-4
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations
Ending (Danganronpa V3)

Top Pomeranian
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
Chiaki Nanami: "Hello, I'm a beautiful woman with gigantic boobs and a super short skirt. I have all of the same interests as you, am super smart and funny, never get angry or complain or expect you to do anything, am completely devoted to you to the point where I'll die to save you without hesitation, will never look at another man even if he's way more handsome than you, and when I'm not doing all of the hard work with my cute catchphrase, I'm laying my head on your shoulder and sleeping adorably." Like, seriously, that's all it takes to over most men, I'm just saying. In all seriousness, Chiaki is the only waifu where it's to her advantage to be childishly, unrealistically perfect, because for once, it actually makes sense: she is the creation of a nerdy computer programmer making a nerdy computer program that needs to program the perfect computer nerd waifu who instantly wins over everyone without any effort at all. The only problem is that it's REALLY obvious that Chiaki is the traitor, just because she's the only character where it would be emotionally hurtful to the player if she died. And yet, despite the fact that she's literally not real, she's a million times more compelling than everyone else combined. Like, the idea that someone knew that all of these people fell into despair, so they come up with the idea to give them an unrealistically perfect (girl)friend to make them emotionally stable before revealing the horrible truth of what happened to the world, is fucking genius. I won't acknowledge the anime declaring that Chiaki was a real person who actually just was perfect in every way, because that ruins the entire point of the character... and also, she calls Alter Ego her father at once point.
Funny Wrong Dialogue Choices
Doki Doki Literature Club
Random Fact Conversations (Zero Escape)
Bad End (Danganronpa 1): This might secretly be the biggest difference between AA and DR. In AA, it's pretty explicit that trying to find or expose the truth is always good, under all circumstances, and always leads to good results. The only time this ever wavers is when Phoenix uses fake evidence to convict Kristoph of a crime he actually did commit, and that barely counts. In DR, this isn't really the case. And it's a really cool idea that the only way to defeat Monokuma is to do something crazy like trusting someone accusing you of murder: doing the rational thing that you've been conditioned to do for the entire game results in a bad ending, while trusting and hoping Kyoko knows what she's doing (spoilers: she doesn't) is the only way to win. But the ending itself, God. It's the perfect insane joke. The idea that they just give up and accept their fate, and end up in a polygamy situation with the only surviving woman, and she only gives birth to sons and just looks completely exhausted, and even the order of the children she has (Byakuya's, Makoto's, Hiro's), and Toko dying off-screen because she presumably killed herself after Byakuya chose Aoi over her... it's all just perfect. It's perfectly designed as an insane joke ending, I wish every game in the series had this exact same joke ending. And here's the thing... what Danganronpa does as a random, stupid joke, the more prestigious series Xenoblade just... does. God. Are there any other games that have a polygamous multiple-children ending?

Don't Doubt Yourself
Dance of Deduction
Presenting Character Profiles
Lynne: If we count GT as an AA game, it's not really a subversion to have the female sidekick be crazier than the main character. I'd say that's almost the standard? I think the only exception is Susato. Lynne isn't even tha crazy, honestly, other than that she dies so many times that she just gets used to it and laughs it off. "Haha, I died again!" I think she's the only one who doesn't have a skill, right? She's just a normal-ass cop. Anyway, Lynne is great. She's upbeat, she's pleasant, she's just great. I can't pretend she's very interesting, and she has the weakness of only getting a single game to show off (only Espella matches her in that regard), but she definitely makes the most of it. I'd say the thing that most sets her apart from the other sidekicks is that she doesn't really have a backstory. Like, we see her as a little kid in the time travel segment, and it's sort of implied that something weird is going on with her, but it's never explained. What I'm saying is this: Ghost Trick 2 when?
Franziska von Karma
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice for All
Junpei Tenmyouji
The Miracle Never Happen
AA5-6
Genocide Jill
Miu Iruma
Monokuma
Japanifornia: Remember that movie, Big Hero 6? Where they intentionally mix San Francisco and Tokyo? I dunno where I'm going with this. It's fine. It's funny when, like, you have "Americans" who talk about how difficult it is to get a gun in this country, or they just hop on over to the local shrine or rakugo club. But then, there actually are moments when it legitimately makes more sense for them to be American. Like in Khura'in, it's plausible that the royal family, a tourist guide, and a high-ranking monk might all speak English. You know what language they are definitely not fluent in? Japanese. Like, Japanifornia, let's talk about anime in general, where the race of everything is ambiguous, and they're just 'anime.' It's most noticeable in GAA, where the difference between Europeans and Asians is actually important, so suddenly all of the Japanese people all have straight black hair and brown eyes, when in the previous games, everyone just had whatever colorful wacky anime hair and eyes. There's no way to explain that in the Japanese version, but if everyone in the main series is American, it makes complete sense. It's like, have you played Street Fighter? Where Karin Kanzuki just has blonde hair and blue eyes? I'm just saying, if you're trying to understand this game series or anime in general as something that 'makes sense,' then the American version would trump the Japanese version... but for stuff like Kurain Village or whatever. It's weird how the first game actually has nothing Japanese-y in it at all besides the samurai show and Maya's clothes, but each game becomes more and more Japanese, causing more and more problems for the localizers. Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.
Original Cases in Fanfiction
Objection (Website)
Sissel

hombad46 posted...

It's not that complicated. Nine in Japanese is kyu, which sounds like Q, and q looks like 9. Originally "seek a door that carries a q" was spoken, but to localize it they had to put it on a letter.

I guess that makes sense. You explained it better.

Bitto posted...

In the original, Franziska learns law from America. Same with the Gavins, coming from America instead of Germany. Redd White's vocabulary is a bunch of misused English words. I can see all of it except Franziska.

I also cant believe that Klavier isnt German. My entire life is a lie.

foolm0r0n posted...

Looking at that side by side, the original kinda looks better in a lot of scenes. It's just insane how good the direction was in the original. Polygon count can't make up for it. Also the faces in the new one look weird, especially The Boss.

They haven't shown anything particularly new or better about this version, which makes sense since the whole creative team is gone.

I think Snaje looks better, but the Boss looks worse. Zero and Paramedic are equal, but for the technology advancement.

MartinFF7 posted...

nice that it showed the like, high-tech hovering guard posts in the trailer and it's reminding me how much that took me out of the game when I originally played it.

I know technology in the MGS world differs from ours & there's all kinds of wacky shit, but random floating technology existing in the 60's? in the Soviet Union? frankly...

It's based on something that really existed, but it's still better than the holographic iphones in MGSV.

I Am Grateful You Were Born
Yasuhiro Hagakure: Everyone thinks that Hiro is just bad comic relief, but that's only partly true. Unlike, say, Sonia, who just kind of survives randomly and does nothing the entire story, Hiro does nothing the entire story, but serves a very specific purpose in the narrative: he's the red herring. He's always there, he's always super suspicious, if not as the potential murderer, then as the potential spy or mastermind. But he's also decent comic relief, I think. I don't know, I think MOST of his jokes are alright. I like the one where he doesn't understand why Celeste made him a patsy, and she just bluntly tells him it's because he's stupid. And the idea that Hiro is actually a horrible person, and gets away with it because his crimes no longer matter, is kind of funny, and is distoinct from Genocide Jack's. They also don't go overboard with the "actually, his predictions came true!" thing as they could have. In V3, Miu always accuses someone at the start of the trial at random of being the murderer, and she's always correct, that's the kind of thing I mean.
Hobonix
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3
Yomiel
Sonia Nevermind
The Panic Dance
Sean
Zak Gramarye
Funyarinpa: I had to look this up. So, it's a nonsense word answer to a question that only makes sense if you speak Japanese? Man, I remember reading about how they translated the 9 plot twist at the end of 999, and it seemed like the most complicated thing ever. Not going to lie, at some point, I stopped trying to understand how that twist worked and just rode the ending out. I was about to ask if this was a Danganronpa reference, but then I remembered how much older 999 is, so lol me.

Objection... able
Gravel in the Swimsuit
Improved Hangman's Gambit
Danganronpa Kill/Cure
Meat On The Bone
Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney: Even the people who like this game agree that it's the worst entry in the main series. It's probably the worst entry in the entire series; that's surely either this or AAI. It's actually kind of shocking how much of a misstep it is. And the issues about this do not stem from changing main characters. Like, that doesn't help, but the idea of injecting new blood isn't necessarily bad. It's just a combination of things. Undoing Phoenix's triumphant ending at the end of the third game, Trucy being much worse than Maya, Apollo coming across as a Phoenix clone (at least in this game), two of the worst cases in the series right in a row, the worst final case in the entire series, and then Klaiver just sucking ass. The only thing the game does well is the first case, and even that's not great, it's just not ruinous. AA4 really needed to stick the landing and prove that the series doesn't need Phoenix to succeed, and it completely failed to do that. No wonder the next game starts by bringing back Phoenix and pretending none of this happened except Apollo and Trucy now existing. I said before that the better way to do this game would have been to make Phoenix a prosecutor and turn it into some kind of grand mystery about why he's working to get people locked up. And yeah, Trucy. She's pleasant and everything, I don't hate her, but she's no Maya or Susato. She's not even an Ema or Athena. I guess she's better than Kay and Espella. She gives us one of the worst moments in the entire series, too: delaying a trial by pretending to get kidnapped, and then everyone is just like "yeah whatever" when she's fine. I can imagine that the writers wanted the assistant character to have some kind of useful, unique skill with Maya out of the picture, and they figured that stage magic was the nearest thing without introducing more actual magic, maybe. I mean, other than Susato and Espella, every assistant has such a skill. God, I just remembered the moment when Trucy figures out how a murder was comitted, then refuses to tell you because telling you how a trick is done would violate the sanctity of magician stage magic. Jesus Christ, maybe she IS below Kay.

Life is Simply Unfair
Benjamin Woodman
Seesaw Effect
Complex Motives
Character Models (Zero Time Dilemma)
Ending (Zero Time Dilemma)

Ultimate Despair
Ending (PLxPW)

I Assure You, it's Quite Based
DR2-5
AA2-4
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations
Ending (Danganronpa V3)

Top Pomeranian
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
Funny Wrong Dialogue Choices
Doki Doki Literature Club
Random Fact Conversations (Zero Escape): "Junpei, if we don't get that door open in the next five seconds, our heads will explode! By the way, did you know the Titanic had a sister ship?" It's easy to make fun of these, but they actually make sense from the perspective Akane and Santa, since they know exactly what's going on and what Junpei needs to know in order to progress. Makes no sense from anyone else's perspective, but hey. I think ZE's greatest success as a series comes not from the actual story or characters or whatever, like most other games, but instead something subtler: how well it mixes reality with fiction. Like, most people are not Titanic experts. If you say "did you know the Titanic had two sister ships," the vast majority of people would not know that that is false. It's such an easily believable idea, as are things like Ice-9. And the game gives you so many of these "that sounds possibly true" things that when you encounter something insane, like the morphogenetic field, you're conditioned to just accept it. That's probably 999's biggest strength: it just seems so plausible and real, even when it's talking about the craziest, most nonsensical things in the universe. This is just about 999, though. By the time you get to ZTD, it's like, they've run out of meaningful things to talk about, so they just start talking about weird, cool things. Like, the Monty Hall Paradox has nothing to do with anything, but there's an entire sequence just to explain it.

Don't Doubt Yourself
Dance of Deduction
Presenting Character Profiles: Everyone loves this. It's great to see what characters think of each other, that's a neat, easy little bit of worldbuilding, that characters can each have opinions that don't directly involve Phoenix. Or are you referring to just the ability to do this, period, and you being sad that it was removed in favor of just having regular evidence to streamline things? Because obviously, that's bad. I don't know, I kind of view this the same way that I view presenting your lawyer badge to people: it's not strictly necessary for the game to progress, but it's just an easy, cool way to draw a reaction out of characters and learn more about them, so why NOT include it? Although, I guess this is also the thing that led Dr. Hotti to make a boob-squeezing motion while talking about a six-year-old, so it has that working against it.
Franziska von Karma: So, I learned something last night. Since I played the games, I thought von Karma and Franziska were German. But no! They're just Japanifornian, and merely traveled to Germany to study law. And then, the idea of traveling to another country to study law is insane, because obviously the law is different everywhere. I'm actually shocked that the von Karmas aren't German. Ah well. Para once said that AA prosecutors are either very good or not, but I disagree. There are amazing ones, and there are awful ones, but Franziska is like... I view her as just space filler? She's barely a character unto herself, at least in a narrative sense. The fact that Phoenix defeats her twice, and she's forced to admit that she's not perfect, is sort of irrelevant? Franziska is ultimately just part of Edgeworth's character, which is why she has only two non-Edgeworth appearances (2-2 and 2-3), half of which she spends talking about Edgeworth. And all of her appearances alongside Edgeworth involve her talking about Edgeworth even more. I don't know, I could probably make a tasteless incest joke here, but I'll resist the temptation. Look, obviously Klaiver and Nahyuta are terrible, but at least they're full characters who exist by themselves. Combine that with the fact that Franziska is also just not REALLY Phoenix's or Edgeworth's equal at any point... So yeah, while I agree that Franziska is cute and fun to bully, and while I agree that she has a great moment when she breaks down in front of Edgeworth, she's not one of the greats to me.
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice for All
Junpei Tenmyouji: You know, when I played 999, I thought Junpei was going to be another Phoenix or Makoto, you know? The exasperated normal guy who's barely keeping up with all of the wackiness going on around him. But to the credit of whomever wrote the games, Junpei is not that. He's that in the first game, but I found his transformation into a cynical asshole completely believable... kind of. Like, the idea that he becomes kind of a bad person in both the far future timeline and the ZTD timeline is good, but the issue is sort of why. See, in 999 and VLR, I think Akane was very clearly intended to be a subversion of the standard anime waifu. She seems nice and everything, but especially in VLR, she's just a husk. Whatever emotions she once had have eroded to the point where all that's left is her mission. The part where Tenmyouji is like "she nodded at me" is great. So, the idea that he's been chasing this woman for most of his life, and she's no longer capable of perceiving him as anything except a tool, and it's left him a cynical jerk, is great. But then in ZTD, Akane becomes the stereotype, and is no longer this manipulator of everyone's actions. So Junpei just becomes cynical and nihilistic because... he's fed up with things? It's a bit of a misstep. Like, make no mistake, he's still a better protagonist than Makoto or Hajime, but he goes from being a fantastic "normal guy in a crazy situation" to something else that's not as much fun. Although, I'll admit, the "Tenmyouji is Junpei" twist in VLR is amazing. It might be the best twist in the entire game. Doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense that Junpei looks so different even as an old man, you kind of have to rely a lot on the art style changing to justify it, but I'll allow it because of how good of a twist it is.
The Miracle Never Happen
AA5-6
Genocide Jill
Miu Iruma
Monokuma
Original Cases in Fanfiction
Objection (Website): What is... objection.lol? Jesus Christ, I had no idea this even existed. I guess it makes sense. "Objection!" is by far the most exploitable and memeable thing in the entire series. I wonder what actual lawyers think of how the game uses the word.
Sissel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTVaEPHa9Bc

I can't wait to return to the tropical jungles of Russia.

Aliens

6

7.5

Bitto posted...

I think the idea of Phoenix/Nova being "rivals" is because they had their trailer up back-to-back, which was similar for other "rivals" in MVC3 (most notably the starting 6 in the first trailer).

I guess there's context that I didn't understand, but man, that is not clear at all.

Samurai Western

I Assure You, it's Quite Based
DR2-5
AA2-4
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations
Ending (Danganronpa V3)

Top Pomeranian
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
Funny Wrong Dialogue Choices: I consider this to be absolutely mandatory. Saying something funny or wrong, and prompting a silly response from an exasperated NPC, may not be absolutely necessary for the story or whatever, but it's important to know that there's a consequence (and reward) for failure. And why shouldn't it be funny? I'm sure everyone is thinking of characters chewing out Phoenix for making mistakes, but the one that I think of first is actually the stupid Danganronpa 2 one, where someone Hajime what the consequence of waking up will, and the correct answer is that you'll regain your old memories and turn evil, but the funnier answer is that you'll lose all of your Monocoins.
Doki Doki Literature Club

Don't Doubt Yourself
Dance of Deduction
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice for All
The Miracle Never Happen
AA5-6: Is Marlon Rimes the only black person in any of these series? Ah, whatever. This is definitely the best DLC case, sure as hell beats Turnabout Time Traveler. I think the best element of this case is just the environment. The idea of a murder in an aquarium is amazing, it's a great idea, and I don't think I've ever seen a murder in any story at one before. Like, every other case in the main series is either in just a normal environment or a traditional Japanese place or a magical Nepalese city or, ugh, a circus. The very water-y and animal-filled environment is very unique, and I like it a lot. I like that you have to defend an animal, I like that you also have to defend, uh, pirate girl (whatever her name is). It's just a generally high-quality case in an A+ environment. I'd say the closest thing to criticism you can level against this case is that it's just a random pointless adventure Phoenix goes on that has nothing to do with anything. Turnabout Time Traveler, although bad, does at least have a sense of finality to it, like it has a place in the broader series.
Genocide Jill
Miu Iruma
Monokuma
Original Cases in Fanfiction
Sissel

I Am Grateful You Were Born
Hobonix
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3: I know that people championed MvC2 as the greatest fighting game ever for a long time, and that most of its appeal was that it was so poorly-programmed that the multitude of glitches just became part of the meta. That's fine to me, that makes sense, that sounds fun. Then later, Capcom makes this game, and it's... fine. It's okay. It never became another SF2 or Smash or whatever, but it has its own following. Such a strange concept for a game, too, Marvel and Capcom have nothing to do wtih each other. God, imagine Disney being this cavalier with Marvel properties anymore. But anyway, I assume this is really about Phoenix's appearance in the game. Sorry, I only played the game before he was released, so I have to resort to looking up videos. I like how his moves are all lawyer-based, where he's throwing around papers or investigating. Not really the best themes, though. I don't know how to explain this, but this version of Turnabout is way too synthy? It doesn't feel like all of the other versions from his actual game. If you want to see how to turn game-specific music into a whole that all fits together, Smash is where you go, that game does everything right (even keep out characters like Waluigi). The idea that Phoenix has to search for clues is cute. Wait, he was cut from another fighting game because they were concerned that the "objection" bubbles would be different lengths in different languages, making it unbalancable? That's the dumbest thing ever. "Phoenix Wright's rival in UMvC3 appears to be Nova, as they are both guardians. Wright being the guardian of his clients (defending them in court), and Nova being the guardian of the galaxy. Nova gained supernatural powers which he uses to fight regular crime. On the other hand, Wright, a normal human, has had numerous encounters with the supernatural, and even faced villains of a mystic nature. They also both use very different methods of delivering justice, with Phoenix Wright using the law, and Nova using violence." I hate Wikis that speculate on nonsensical crap. If this is actually true, though, then it's even dumber. Clearly his rival should be She-Hulk, the other lawyer!
Yomiel
Sonia Nevermind
The Panic Dance
Sean
Zak Gramarye: Zak might be the most detestable character in the entire series. In a series with dozens of murderers, this is the guy. He beats up a woman who helps him, he shoots a doll in a hospital (???), he dumps his kid on his lawyer, he tries to ruin the lawyer's income stream by cheating because... I still don't know why he did that. The literal only thing Zak ever does right is fire Kristoph because he just realizes there's something up with the guy. It's actually insane how cruel, petty, and pointless his actions are, and he's not even a murderer. He's one of the few people in this world who aren't murderers, and he still comes across way worse than most of them. I can't even tell how much of it is intentional, too, because all of the details of the fourth game are so poorly-handled.

Objection... able
Gravel in the Swimsuit
Improved Hangman's Gambit
Danganronpa Kill/Cure
Meat On The Bone

Life is Simply Unfair
Benjamin Woodman
Seesaw Effect
Complex Motives
Character Models (Zero Time Dilemma)
Ending (Zero Time Dilemma)

Ultimate Despair
Ending (PLxPW)

Bitto posted...

It's definitely the most famous bad ending, but there's some special dialogue for getting a game over for certain cases. 5-5 comes to mind, but I think there's a few others too.

I don't remember any of this. I remember intentionally losing in a case after the judge admitted that my client couldn't have committed the murder, then him immediately convicting her.

Nominate ____ World

Mario

Man, I hope this doesn't end up being the lowest nomination topic ever for these.

Ceruledge/Pangoro
Espurr/Terapagos
Clefairy/Iron Treads
Buneary/Wartortle

Objection... able
Gravel in the Swimsuit
Improved Hangman's Gambit
Danganronpa Kill/Cure
Meat On The Bone

Life is Simply Unfair
Benjamin Woodman: Man, does 2-3 suck. The idea of a circus murder isn't bad, but every single character involved is either awful or boring. And then there's this guy. I won't hold against him the fact that he's hitting on a sixteen-year-old, you know what, the fact that Regina is a teenager isn't relevant to the story, she could have as easily been twenty-five. It's weird, but I'll overlook it. The writers just pinned all of their hopes and dreams on the idea that the audience would find ventriloquism jokes funny, the distinction between the doll and the person. Listen. I hadn't thought about ventriloquism since I was like eight, watching Loony Tunes or whatever, and I'm confident that's true for almost everyone else. This is just such an old-timey form of entertainment. No one cares. God, it's like the magician cases later, too, where they bank everything on the idea that the audience will care even slightly about the sanctity of magicians not telling you how they conceal their tricks. Except ventriloquism is even lamer than that, because at least magic tricks can be mildly fun to watch. It's also funny how this guy just disappears after the first day, like he was never there to begin with. That's because he was always just a space-filler witness. At least Moe got to experience the emotional climax of the case with Regina; Benjamin doesn't even have that. He is ultimately just another obstacle on your path to finding the real killer.
Seesaw Effect
Complex Motives
Character Models (Zero Time Dilemma)
Ending (Zero Time Dilemma)

Ultimate Despair
Ending (PLxPW): I am told that Professor Layton as a series has a much higher tolerance than AA for 'things that just don't make sense.' I'll talk more about my thoughts on this game when it gets nominated, but for now, just the ending. It is very bad. The thing is, some genres care about logic more than others. If there's a plot hole in Star Wars or the Legend of Zelda, whatever, the point of those stories isn't to have a really tight narrative that makes complete sense. The more that logic matters to your story, the more that plot holes damage it. And the genre where logic matters the most is detective stories. Boy oh boy, what can I even say here? They had an idea for a big plot twist at the end, they went for it, and they just barreled through regardless of any problems. I don't expect flawless writing from these games ("How did Mikan move so quickly between islands?" "Why does von Karma get a penalty for forged evidence, but Phoenix gets disbarred?" "Why doen't Maya just immediately channel every victim so Phoenix can just ask who killed them?"), I'm fine with some sketchy bits if it moves things along... but man, this level of "we don't care about the details" is too egregious even for Zero Time Dilemma. I can't even remember all of the problems with this ending. Like, I knew as soon as we entered the medieval city that the twist was going to be that no one is really executed and that the entire city is made of modern people who are brainwashed. That's fine. But then, the entire explanation for what happened to the original city makes no sense (why are they also medieval, why are they vulnerable to the bell ringing when that was added as a weakness to their replacements), Layton sending the kid to prepare to catch Espella makes no sense (how did he know exactly where), and this isn't a plot hole or anything, but Barnham being removed and replaced by Darklaw, who at the end of the game just "remembers" that she's the one responsible for the disaster years ago, and it has no effect on anything, it's like, what? The entire game is about Espella feeling guilty for getting everyone in the stupid village killed. God, I don't want to complain about this stupid ending for too long, but it is just so sincerely dumb. Whatever meager amount of good will the game's built up (even before this, this is a low-tier entry) is completely deflated by this terrible display. I assume all of the PL games have endings like this, and I assume they're all as insane.

I Assure You, it's Quite Based
DR2-5
AA2-4
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations
Ending (Danganronpa V3)

Top Pomeranian
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
Doki Doki Literature Club

Don't Doubt Yourself
Dance of Deduction
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice for All: This is the weak link in the original trilogy, but it's still a pretty strong link... I say that, but it's really, REALLY buoyed up by the final case. 2-1 and 2-3 suck, and 2-2 is okay, but 2-4 is so strong that it just doesn't even matter. Franziska is fine as a space-filler opponent, she's not as compelling as her father or brother, she's not as imposing as Blackquill or Kazama or van Zieks... I guess she's better than Nahyuta and Klavier, though. Like, I like Franziska and all, but she is nothing except padding, and she's there purely because they needed a non-Edgeworth character to stand there for half of the game. One thing I like in this game is the backstory for Maya. I like the old-timey Japanese village, I like the idea that to spirit channel, and she has to put herself through crazy physical training that would destroy Phoenix in a second. And Pearl! It is insane that Pearl is likable. Little kid characters are the easiest thing in the universe to screw up, and yet they did a perfect job with her. But man, the fact that we waste half of the game on the cop murder and the circus murder, yikes.
The Miracle Never Happen: I played the Steam version many, many years after the DS, long after everyone else on B8. I knew of this phrase because it had been memed, but I didn't know what game it was from. When it finally came up, and it was "the miracle never happened," I was disappointed. I knew immediately that the original version must have had the typo, and that it was fixed for this rerelease. "The miracle never happen" is a funny phrase, and I think everyone can agree on that. The miracle itself not happening and giving us a bad ending is great. I think this is the only bad ending in all of Ace Attorney, right? Danganronpa has a bad ending in the first and third games, and ZE is, in a weird way, built around the concept of bad endings, but I think that AA, despite having by far the most games, has only this, right? At least it made things count: Phoenix is so ashamed of saving Maya by getting an innocent woman convicted that he just disappears.
Genocide Jill
Miu Iruma
Monokuma: As far as cute mascot characters go, this is a good one. He's cute, but also gross and bad and unpleasant to look at. Perfectly fitting for Danganronpa as a series. I appreciate how the tone always changes whenever he shows up, and how he doesn't have to follow any logical rules like the human characters. He just appears, bounces around, pulls objects out of nowhere, acts like a lunatic, and as long as he's on-screen, generally acts silly. Like, this is the face of the series, and even the characters themselves don't treat him with any respect. For Danganronpa, that is perfect. God, remember that stupid mascot rabbit character in VLR? He's like a joke compared to this. This is how you do it.
Original Cases in Fanfiction
Sissel

I Am Grateful You Were Born
Hobonix: I'll say this: if you absolutely MUST have Phoenix in AA4, this is the best way to do it. You'd either want this or for Phoenix to mysteriously be the prosecutor, and it to be a big mystery why he's working for the other team. Those are the ways to do it, and they tried, and... it's okay. The first case is alright. It at least sets up a lot of questions about Phoenix, which is good. The idea that Phoenix is now so much more experienced and is no longer the panicking flying-by-the-seat-of-my-pants attorney is good. The beanie is good. But there was no way they were ever going to maintain this for the later games, and Phoenix just regresses to being the exact same person he was in the first three games.
Yomiel
Sonia Nevermind
The Panic Dance
Sean

UF8 posted...

Murders on the Yangtze River

((play it))

I'll add it to my list, but it's sure not getting into this topic.

Objection... able
Gravel in the Swimsuit: I'm not sure if this counts as a murder weapon in the series, since it's used in a murder that happened before the games started, and the heroes just have to figure out how it relates to the modern murder, but even if it does, this is only the second stupidest murder weapon in a mystery game. We ALL know the stupidest, I hope. Like, you know what, it's really not THAT dumb. It's dumb, but like, I can sort of see it. It's not the most IMPLAUSIBLE thing ever. As far as unconventional murder weapons go, I'd even call it sort of clever. The idea of combining two harmless objects into a weapon that no one could ever see coming is really good. I don't know, this isn't even close to the stupidest thing in DR2-3 alone.
Improved Hangman's Gambit
Danganronpa Kill/Cure
Meat On The Bone

Life is Simply Unfair
Seesaw Effect
Complex Motives
Character Models (Zero Time Dilemma)
Ending (Zero Time Dilemma): God, the Delta twist. Is it the dumbest plot twist in any video game? No. It's not even the dumbest plot twist in the games allowed in this topic... but it is the second dumbest. It's just, it's SO nonsensical. It's like, these games spend so much time trying to build things up to seem based in logic, and then ZTD drops the charade and is like "actually, nothing matters lmao." The idea that these characters know there's a secret evil person among them, but don't know who it is, and suspect each other, but no one says "could it be the creepy blind old man we don't know anything about" is insane. The idea that Eric flips out starts murdering people because his girlfriend died, but he never suspects the creepy blind old man is insane. And there are so many logistical questions about the wheelchair I won't go into. It's like, the idea that there's a tenth guy in the game that no one ever mentions, who just happens to be off-screen the entire time, is an amazing joke, except the game does it for real. Like, I know. You might be thinking "oh, Anagram, c'mon, this is a meta thing. ZE plays with audience-vs-character perceptions. His presence isn't a mystery to the characters, it's a mystery to the audience, which is almost explicit because Delta clearly knows you're watching him and has taken steps to ensure you don't see him." And sure, that's all true, but it doesn't make the plot twist less stupid. It's clever, but it's still stupid. When I was a teacher, I had a student ask me to explain how NFTs work, and I explained to her what they are, and her exact words were "That's smart, but it's stupid," and that applies here as well. And this is to say nothing of the even-more-out-of-your-ass twist of mind hacking. Don't you dare try to tell me that was set up earlier because Sean pressed a button without meaning to or something. God, one thing I see people say occasionally is that the Delta twist is good because it's foreshadowed really well. They're right: it IS foreshadowed amazingly. Best foreshadowing of any twist in any video game. There are so many hints about what's really going on, and I'll admit that I saw many of them and dismissed them, they flew over my head. But man, dude? Something can be foreshadowed well, and still be stupid. It's like, when I play these games, I obviously try to guess the twist ahead of time as I play. Sometimes I succeed, and sometimes I fail. This time I failed, but not because the twist was well-hidden. I failed because the twist was so incomprehensibly insane that no human being could ever see it coming, even if presented with all of the evidence in advance. But this still isn't going in the lowest tier, because while it's stupid, it's at least fun. It is clever, it is well set-up, it is fun, but at the climax to the entire Zero Escape series, yikes.

Genocide Jill
Miu Iruma
Original Cases in Fanfiction
Sissel: He's fine. Honestly, I wouldn't really call the protagonist of any of these games the point? It's kind of interesting, because other than Shuichi, all of them have to be the most generic guys they can be. Sure, they all have their quirks, like Sigma being lecherous or Makoto being naive and idealistic, etc, but at the end of the day, they're all generic anime hero men (or boys). Sissel sort of falls outside of that, in that he's a little sleazier than the rest, but not by so much that it really matters. I guess what I'm saying is, no one plays these games for the protagonists, even though they all have giant plot twists about the protagonists (discounting Phoenix, but including Apollo and Athena). Sissel is also I BELIEVE the only character in Ghost Trick to die for real, right? Everyone else has their deaths undone. And it still barely even counts for him, because he's undead or whatever. Honestly, I like Ghost Trick, but for a game where the rules of the magic are so important to the gameplay, the logic of how anything works is always brushed over as casually as possible.

I Am Grateful You Were Born
Yomiel: It's hard to really discuss this character, because as far "main villains" of all of these games go, he's sort of the least interesting and important? I guess he does beat Kristoph. Like, sure, he's there a lot, but it's not until the last hour of the game that we understand what his fucking deal is. I don't know, this might sound unsatisfying, but he's one of the weaker aspects of the game? He's perfectly servicable toward the ultimate goal of a really cool plot twist, but that's about it. I like that in the end, no one really wants to be a villain, and everyone just agrees to work together to right the wrongs of the past, and Yomiel is even like "yeah okay, just get me sent to prison if it means no one'll die." It's a very... optimistic view of the world, I guess? Obviously, the AA, DR, and ZE universes have no shortage of evil murderers, but the only ones in Ghost Trick are the Blue people. No game is more racist against fucking Blue people than Ghost Trick, let me tell you.
Sonia Nevermind: It is incredible that Sonia of all people wins the title of "second smartest Danganronpa 2 survivor." Anyway, I said this in my waifu ranking topic, so I'll just briefly restate it: Sonia's basically designed to be the perfect waifu. And she is. She's really compelling, she's really sweet, you want her to succeed and survive... but she's not very interesting as a character. She basically just decides not to kill anyone, and then doesn't. The only conflict she has the entire game is that she doesn't like Kazuichi. Even Aoi had more conflicts with the rest of the cast than that. I'll give her this: she has the best Rebuttal Showdown in the series, where she just will not accept that Chiaki was tricked into committing murder, and just keeps inventing more and more implausible alternate explanations, even implicating herself, because she can't stand the idea of anyone else dying. It's maybe slightly deflated by Sonia's first action in the previous trial being disappointment that Kazuichi isn't the killer and so can't be executed, but I'll allow it. Anyway, to sum it up: great waifu, solid fish-out-of-water jokes, boring character. I honestly don't know which DR I would say has the most boring survivors.
The Panic Dance: Does Ghost Trick have the most impressive spritework ever? ... No. But it's still damn good. There are a lot of sequences in this game that are clearly just the producers showing off, and this random, unimportant guard dancing for as close to no reason as possible to sure one of them.
Sean: I think the hardest I laughed in any of these games was when Sean takes off his mask, and it's just a neck underneath. I don't know why I thought that was so funny, but I loved it. Anyway, Sean, listen. I noticed right away that no one was calling him Q, but I still fell for the twist. I don't mind having a kid in the game, that's fine. But we'd just had Quark. So, you have these two kids, both of whom seem to have Q names, and they're the same size, and one is wearing a mask, and... they're just unrelated. They have nothing to do with each other at all, except as a trick by Delta to mess with the audience, I guess. Why did he do that? Shut up. You can't even claim it's the best way to have handled it, because the end of VLR promised us more K action. God, okay, so Sean himself. He's actually a good kid character. I enjoyed him well enough. I think the only thing I dislike about him is the text ending, where he's like "Hey Mira, I'll break you out of prison so we can go back in time and undo the murders you committed," when we carefully spent two games explaining how that's not how it works. But fine. Sean is just... who cares? He's just another character. For all the importance he seems to have to the plot, he's just another gear Delta uses to make sure things go as he planned. I guess he's more important than the truly useless, interchangable characters, like Seven (remember him?) or, sadly, Quark and K. Like, you think Sean is more important to the story than Eric and Mira, but he's really not.

I Assure You, it's Quite Based
DR2-5
AA2-4: God, what are the best AA cases... 1-4 is good, but it's not on this level. 1-5 is good, but way too long. 3-5 is a contender, the fourth game is trash, the fifth game is better, but still not on this level... Yeah, I'm going to call it: this is one of the two best AA cases, it's this and 3-5. The idea that Phoenix has preconceptions about his clients, and that he's always been able to rely on miracles bailing him out, and him realizing that his client is a villain, there's no miracle coming, and Mia can't help him, and the only way for him to move forward is to swallow his pride, force a miracle into existence, and ruin his own perfect record, is great. The fact that Maya gets kidnapped is basically just a way to make sure Phoenix can't just leave, which is fine. Although, can I say, is Maya the most damsel-in-distress ever? I think she's arrested or kidnapped in literally every appearance; even Peach has games where she goes the entire time without being kidnapped. Maya is both arrested by the police and kidnapped by an assassin in a single game. God, Matt Engarde, too. I love him. Acting like all of Phoenix's other clients, like an innocent dunce, and then he has the best 'evil mode' sprites of any character in the series. Not su4re how I feel about Franziska getting sidelined. It's great to see Edgeworth again, but it's basically like admitting that Franziska is a joke compared to Phoenix and Edgeworth, and not really on their level. But Edgeworth IS more fun, so... I don't really mind. And the radio sequence with de Killer as a witness, amazing. Every idea in this case is both really good and perfectly executed, I can't compliment it enough. I don't know if there's anything I would change about this case.
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations: The best mystery game. Virtually flawless from start to finish. The Mia segments give a lot of context to her character, even if they create a plot hole with Grossberg not knowing Phoenix in the first game, Godot is so compelling as a character partly because of how much his plan doesn't make sense (in a good way), and it tops everything off with the greatest villain in the series. I'll even allow the violation of the Fair Play detective rules with the surprise identical twins. For the climax of the third game? You've earned it. You're allowed one violation at this point. Even the filler cases with Luke Atmey and... uh... red guy... are still good. And man! The fact that Godot can easily resolve the entire final case by just going to Phoenix in advance and telling him what he knows, thus effortlessly saving everyone, but is just driven to prove to himself that he could have saved Mia had he been there instead of Phoenix, and HAS to do this without Phoenix's help, thus making everything worse, is so, so good. He's also like the perfect prosecutor for us to encounter after Edgeworth, Franziska, and von Karma harping on about 'perfection.' If we're being really honest, the series should have ended here. I'm not sad that it continued, but this was the obvious ending point. Phoenix has to overcome a villain mixed up with his past and prove that he's as good as Mia and not indirectly responsible for her death, and he does so by finally moving on from everything. Godot is incapable of moving on, makes everything worse because of it, and finally dies from a wound he could have easily avoided had he just been willing to let go of his bitterness. I love von Karma and Edgeworth, of course, but in terms of sheer villain depth in this series, Godot wins handily. This is where things should have ended, or at least where Phoenix's story should have ended. The rest of the series should have just been like Apollo and Athena doing things, whatever, maybe sometimes they meet older characters like Maya or something, but Phoenix was done as a character after this. That moment where he yells and points his finger at Godot, and Mia's ghost backs him up, and Godot freezes and realizes how wrong he was and how Phoenix is the person who really lived up to her ideals, is so fucking good. It's the best single moment in the entire series, bar none, but it was also the end of Phoenix as a character, because he had nowhere else to go from there. Ah well. At least we got Dahlia out of it.
Ending (Danganronpa V3)

Top Pomeranian
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
Doki Doki Literature Club: I guess I'll allow this, even though I find its credentials as a mystery game to be dubious. This is the ultimate example of a genre I'll call "Waifu Horror," where there's a seemingly perfect girl who turns out to be a monster or whatever. Even that weird fan song someone made after it came out is good. This is a very short game, and everything in it is purposeful. Every scare is super fun, the "gameplay" is pointless, but results in a solid scare of its own, the four characters are super memorable. It's a haunted house, basically. An evil waifu-themed haunted house. Like, that moment early on when Sayori kills herself? That is like a top 10 video game plot twist moment, for real. It's so freaky, it's so sudden, I love it. The idea of a fictional character gaining sapience and being unsatisfied with their lot and doing evil things has been done before, but it hadn't been done (or at least, I was unaware of any examples of) in a way that involved a crazy girl falling in love with you because she has the misfortunate of being in a dating sim. I imagine this game wouldn't be very popular if it came out today, but at the time, it was revolutionary. And the extra hidden stuff, like the stuff in notepad files or what happens if you delete Monika's character file before starting the game, is all fantastic. Although, why exactly did the game not have a Monika route "before" she messed with it? I dunno, it's fine. If there's one thing I don't like, it's the rerelease. It adds a bunch of 'extra' episodes of the girls' lives before they met the protagonist, and it's like, the entire point of the game is that Monika realizes that none of this is real and none of them are real people. They shouldn't have had lives before meeting the protagonist!

Don't Doubt Yourself
Dance of Deduction: What does it say about Phoenix and Ry... Ryu... Ryuno... Ryunosuke Naruhodo (thanks, Google!) that they're the only lawyers without a special skill? Apollo has magic lie detection, Athena has magic emotion powers, Edgeworth has basic logic, and Phoenix... is just given a magic stone by his friend. Ryunosuke has even less than that, this isn't even his skill. It's Sholmes'! Sholmes just lets you ride along and pretends not to know what's happening while he solves every case instantly and lets you take the credit. Like, yes, the idea that Sholmes always just instantly knows everything, and pretends to be an idiot because he's bored and wants to see if he can make you solve it for him, is great. Everything associated with Sholmes is great, including this. As far as the dance itself goes, it's the best of the minigames, yes. Apollo's is cool in theory, but it sucks in practice (I'm still mad about armpit sweat). Athena's is cool in theory, but it's boring in practice. Phoenix's are Edgeworth's are boring in theory, and boring in practice. Meanwhile, Ryunosuke is dancing around with Sholmes, the best character in the game (maybe the best in the series), you have to make actual observations and do cool camera tricks to figure things out, there's an energy to things that doesn't exist in any of the others, it's great. It should probably be unsurprising that the last games in the series are the most polished in terms of these kinds of things. But if we're being serious here? This is really being held up a lot by the strength of Herlock Sholmes. Imagine any other character in his place in these dances; it would be a million times less fun.

Byrde: 4
Prince: 5
Wellington: 4

Aggron/Bulbasaur
Cursola/Dratini
Hitmonlee/Zweilous
Oranguru/Infernape

WarThaNemesis2 posted...

ZTD True Ending

Do you mean the ending, or the text ending?

Raka_Putra posted...

I was really surprised when they first revealed that first image of Diana and Sigma, it looks so dark and serious after ZTD's free hanging tatas and cavewoman Clover. But it did make everyone look like free default character models that come with a game engine.

When I bought the game on Steam, I only recognized Sigma and Phi, and didn't realize Junpei and Akane were also there.

They'll just change it, or say that it "destroys" the world in the sense of destroying the current political order, or something like that.

100% guaranteed the ending is you deciding whether to keep the Veil or combine the two worlds.

Life is Simply Unfair
Seesaw Effect: I actually don't mind the idea of a murder predicated around the seesaw effect. I'd even go so far as to say that it's a clever idea for a murder mystery! But obviously, the implementation of the idea into V3 is horrible. V3-3 is simultaneously the worst case in the series and the best. In a way, it's sort of emblematic of Danganronpa as a whole, relative to Ace Attorney or Zero Escape. It's definitely the most uneven of the three, which is weird, because it has neither the highest highs nor the lowest lows. But as far as the seesaw effect itself goes? There are so many things wrong with how it's used in the game that it's insane. It's like they tried to make the most nonsensical murder plot possible.
Complex Motives: Are we talking about motives that are complex in general, or Delta's specific complex motives? I mean, obviously the phrase "My motives are complex" is stupid and mockable, but having a character whose motives are actually complex isn't a bad thing. But the thing is, Delta's motives aren't even really that complex. He basically has two goals: stop the world from being destroyed, and ensure that he'll be born via time travel. I'm not going to say that his motives are SIMPLE, but "complex" is a bit of an overstatement. It's his means that are complex (why did he shoot the dog, again?), not his motives. And yet, if we're being serious? He probably does have the second most complex motives of any villain in any of these games. The only other main villain with a claim on that title is the Storyteller from PWvL. THAT guy's motives are ACTUALLY complex, and he's also a terrible villain. Maybe what we need for these complicated mystery games is a villain whose motives are simplistic. Say what you want about Danganronpa being the dumbest thing ever, but Junko actually is super memorable.
Character Models (Zero Time Dilemma): I assume by this, you really mean ZTD's choppy animation. It's actually kind of amazing how bad and cheap it looks. When I realized that the game cut away every time the characters fell unconscious so that it didn't have to animate them falling down, but it happens seriously like thirty times during the game so it should have been a priority to animate, I laughed. The most shocking thing in the entire game for me was when Carlos jumps over a bar, because they actually animated it. Everything else is so stiff and bad, as if this was a cheapo indie game. Completely bizarre, especially since the other two games, both made with much inferior technology, look WAY better. This is actually one of the biggest problems with the game, honestly, how ugly it is. 999 just has that classic anime look, and VLR looks dumb and way too wacky, but it at least has its own little aesthetic going on, I suppose. ZTD looks like any other random game, but terrible. I think the thing to take away from this is that of the three big mystery game series, ZE definitely has the least idea of what its identity is. AA looks and feels very professional, and has a very specific tone. DR feels much trashier, but in an intentional way. ZE, though, has a completely different atmosphere and aesthetic with every single game. Things like this make it feel like the least... professional? of the three series, if that makes sense.

Don't Doubt Yourself
Genocide Jill: You might think I don't like this character, but you'd be wrong. To me, she's emblematic of everything that makes Danganronpa what it is: delicious trash. I'm not being insulting, either. AA feels very professional, with a world of G-rated wacky murders. Danganronpa, though? It really leans into being an unrealistic world of gross sex jokes, blood everywhere, constant cursing, and absurdities. It's much more of a cartoon than AA, which is interesting because it also has a more consistent logic to how things function than the "real" world of AA. Like, this character, Genocide Jill? The sex-obsessed long-tongued serial killer split personality, who never gets punished for her many horrific crimes and just casually shrugs off being at ground zero of an explosion? Even for AA, it's too much. But in Danganronpa, she slides into place perfectly. And the idea of her being an actual murderer trapped in a murder game, which means this is the only context in which she cannot murder anyone, and thus she is rendered completely harmless and actually becomes one of the most reliable people in the game? That's a really solid joke, I'm not going to lie. Like, yes, she's screechy and annoying, but if we're being REALLY honest, most of her jokes land because she mostly just annoys Byakuya, who's a dick, and the game never goes too far with her to make it unpleasant. And if we're being really REALLY honest, the idea of all of the late-game characters in the game learning to work together and overcome the evils and obstacles that block their path via friendship or whatever, and then also Toko/Jill is there and she learned nothing and is still just as obnoxious as she started the game, she just happened to survive by accident, is hilarious to me. It's like, every other survivor in the series improves and becomes a better person as a result of the game and makes friends for the rest of their lives, and then Toko is just also there because no one bothered to kill her. I love that. I think it's fucking hysterical. And the idea that this character, of all side characters in all of fiction, got to star in her own sequel is mind-boggling, but I guess we'll get to that later.
Miu Iruma: I might be overrating Miu a little, but it's okay. I'll say this outright: as far as mystery game waifus go, Miu is the hottest in terms of pure physical hotness, and it's not close. I think Miu stands out not only because of that, but because after the third case, she's the only high-energy character left in the game. There's a period of a few hours, honestly, where Miu is holding things together purely on the strength of everyone else being kind of dour or normal or just generally nice, and the game actually is improved by her being an obnoxious, loudmouthed piece of shit who helps the group, but causes more problems thanks to her personality, but the problems aren't as big or intentional as Maki's or Kokichi's. When I started the game, I actually thought she might be the new Byakuya/Nagito, not yet realizing that Kokichi was just going to be Discount Nagito instead. But man, as far as murder plans go? Possibly the worst one in the entire series. The obvious contradiction that Miu can effortlessly build the most advanced technology in the world, but she's a complete moron who can't solve 2+2 by herself, might count as a little bit of an indication for where V3's plot twist is going. As a character, there's honestly not THAT much to her. You could probably argue that what happens to her is tragic, that she's a victim of her own fears that things are falling apart around her and that she needs to act to save herself, but any seriousness in her situation is ruined by the fact that the murder weapon used to end her life is fucking toilet paper. I was so disappointed when Miu died, I can't tell you how much more I wanted her to survive over the all of the actual survivors. God, I think Miu is probably the clearest example of, I don't know if this is a term, waifu forgiveness? Imagine if this character was male, everyone would hate him. I guess if an anime character is a hot enough girl, anything is acceptable.
Original Cases in Fanfiction: I'd imagine these are fanfiction's bread and butter, right? How could they not be. I've read exactly one Danganronpa fanfic all the way through, I'm really not a fanfiction guy, but I enjoyed it well enough. Taking the existing elements in the game and rearranging them in a new way is a good idea. I imagine it's a very LIMITED idea, and you'll run out of new ways to combine them pretty quickly, but it's a good idea.

Objection... able
Improved Hangman's Gambit: I mean, to its credit, it IS better than Hangman's Gambit. Here's the coldest take ever: the only good DR trial games are the basic rail shooter one and scrum debate, or whatever that V3 one is called. The one-on-one argument does have good music, though. Most of the Hangman's Gambit things are super easy, too, but they all move so, SO slowly. I actually like the idea of gamifying the abstract concept of thinking and deduction, but the implementation... yeesh. This is something that Rain Code absolutely does not improve.
Danganronpa Kill/Cure: Is this... a fanfiction youtube series for Danganronpa? Jeez, okay, I'll check it out. But it says "upcoming," bro, these kinds of things never actually get released. The last update was eight months ago, and it was just a two-minute song? And the original creator left and was replaced by some other dude? This is so dead. But okay, let's see these characters. Ultimate Angler, Ultimate Theorist, Ultimate Epidemiologist... Okay, I want to ask... is Danganronpa the most OC-able series in video games? It has to be Danganronpa or Sonic, right? Both have a lot of extreme, vibrantly-colored wackjob characters who just have one very narrow shtick they embody. And Danganronpa's premise, man, is that the most OC-able premise of all time? Don't get me wrong: these characters at least LOOK Danganronpa-y. They have the general aesthetic down. I don't want to say they're missing "something," but I don't know. It would obviously help to see them in action, but barring that, I'll admit they have good music on their youtube channel. It sounds Danganronpa-y. They've at least got the FEELING of Danganronpa down. I have nothing against fan projects, and this looks like it could have been fun, but like, the only fan project for Danganronpa I've checked out is that DR: Another series, and those immediately give up on emulating the aesthetic and just focus on the story, and they're better for it. Like, I'll let you in on a secret: Danganronpa's aesthetic is not its strong point. It's distinctive and it sets a certain kind of unbalanced, wacky tone, and it's better than being 'generic anime,' but I would never actually call it 'good,' so devoting all of your energy to emulating it is kind of revealing some misguided priorities, as far as I see things.
Meat On The Bone: You know, this gets memed a lot, but I don't remember having any trouble with it. I mean, sure, it's ambiguously worded, and they should have fixed that, but like, c'mon. Who cares.

Wow, twelve noms, and nine of them were Danganronpa-related. Okay then.

I Assure You, it's Quite Based
DR2-5: This is the best case in the series, and it's not close. Mr. Komaeda's Wild Ride is so heads and tails above everything else in the series that it's sort of TOO clever for Danganronpa. This is the only case where the actual mystery itself is on the level of AA's greatest. There are lots of other 'good' Danganronpa cases, but this is the one time when everything comes together. Nagito abusing his luck to do something normally impossible while continuing to worship hope as a concept, everyone except the main character and main girl being completely useless and having to be dragged to the finish line, and then being actively problematic on purpose because they don't want to believe what they're hearing, a reverse murder-suicide designed in the most complicated way possible, and most of all, for the only time in any of these games, a mystery that is not solvable with evidence. The realization that Nagito actually succeeded, and actually dreamed up a murder plot so unpredictable and random that evidence and logic are no longer a useful method to solve it, and that you can only backtrack who the murderer is by figuring out whom Nagito would most like to have killed him (without him even knowing who it is himself) is brilliant. It's the perfect culmnation of class trials, Ultimate Luck, the idea of a spy working against you, the emotional attachment you have to cute waifus, the sadness you have during executions, hell, even the execution itself is great (makes up for Teruteru's and Mikan's crappy ones). Someone I know on a Discord server called this case "too good" for the rest of Danganronpa 2, and I sort of agree. Nagito is so effortlessly superior to Kokichi that even his own suicide is better.
V3's Ending: I love it. I absolutely love this ending. Is it the best final plot twist in any of these games? Maybe. 999's is cleverer, better-presented, and more mind-blowing, AA1 and 3's feel more satisfying, and AA6's is more emotional, but V3 is probably the most outrageous and bombastic ending you can possibly have to one of these games before entering "wait, what? That doesn't make any sense" territory like ZTD or PWxL. It builds perfectly on the fact that Junko has been the villain for three games (including the spinoff), and that you expect her to return again. It's set up properly throughout the game. I love all of the 4chan dialogue from the audience. The only one thing I would say is not done very well is setting up Tsumugi, because she is way, WAY too obviously the mastermind. When I played the game and it was introducing the characters, long before it even introduced the concept of a spy, I knew the spy was either Tsumugi, Keebo, Rantaro, or Shuichi, because it just couldn't be anyone else, and then it quickly becomes obvious that it's one of the first two, and then it's obviously Tsumugi because she just does nothing the entire game except hang out and make anime references. Only the first game has a spy I didn't see coming, and only because it cheats with the audience seeing a silhouette of the spy looking like a normal person, and then it's Sakura. But yeah, okay, let's talk about this plot twist. I can't believe I'm saying this, but this is actually stolen from the plot twist to the worst AA game? Where it's revealed that everyone voluntarily brainwashed themselves because they were unsatisfied with their boring lives? Except in that game, it makes 0% sense, and here it makes, like, 70% sense. It's like, yes, Danganronpa is goofier and crasser than Phoenix Wright, but it does do some things better. It's not a simple AA > DR > ZE tier list, they each have their own advantages and disadvatnages. I like the idea of Shuichi beating the game by just refusing to play it, that the game only has power if you give it attention and care enough to participate, that's great. It's like, the idea of the final boss of a video game telling you that the first two games were just silly video games that don't matter, and that their only value is as disposable entertainment, is great. Imagine being Tsumugi, psychotically devoted to your favorite piece of media, then accidentally destroying it. So, this ending isn't PERFECT per se, but it perfectly fits Danganronpa as a series. But despite it all... I'm sorry, I kind of want more Danganronpa? I would buy another game, if one game out. I side with Tsumugi on this one, sorry Shuichi.

Top Pomeranian
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: This is THE mystery game, the one by which all others must be measured. It's not the best, but it does everything right. I would say that every single game in the series has at least one bad or embarrassing case except the original. What's the worst case in this game, 1-3? 1-1? They're both fine. I mean, maybe 'bad' is an overstatement, because GAA2's worst case is also fine, and I know most people don't dislike 5-2 as much as I do, but what I'm saying here is that this game has no low lows. It's just quality from start to finish, no frills at all. And for the sheer amount of stuff it has to introduce, compared to the other games being able to just speedrun all of that because they're sequels, it does the best possible job. But let me tell you, it's hilarious how much of a backstory Phoenix doesn't have. His entire backstory after seven games is that he got accused of stealing money in first grade once and defended by another kid, so he decided to become a lawyer, then he got accused of murder and defended by a lawyer, so he decided to become a lawyer again. That is 100% of what we know about this guy's life prior to the start of the first game. I think we know more about the backstories of every single other major character in the series besides maybe Gumshoe? I don't want to talk about Danganronpa here because it's an AA nomination, but you can really feel from the very start that this is, I don't know, I don't want to say a "classier" series, since this series has jokes like a muscular gay man who calls himself as a maiden as a recurring joke, but it definitely feels more well-designed and plotted-out. Is this the actual BEST game in the series? Nope. Is Maya the superior Fey sister? Nope. But if you needed a game to introduce the concept of mystery games to someone, this is probably the one.

Slay the Spire

Girl

There will be untagged spoilers allowed for the following games:

• Ace Attorney (All)
• Ghost Trick
• Danganronpa (All)
• Zero Escape (All)

Spoilers for these games aren't allowed:

• AI: Somnium Files (both)
• Master Detective Archives: Rain Code
• Your Turn to Die
• Anything Else Unlisted

So, only AA, GT, Danganronpa, and ZE can have spoilers. Don't post spoilers for anything else, even if they're marked and spoilerbarred, I don't want anyone complaining that they were spoiled about something. I've actually played all of these games, but they're more recent/less likely to have been beaten by others, and I don't want people to be alienated. If you'd like, you can post nonspoiler stuff, like the game name itself to get my thoughts, but do not post spoilers for anything except AA, GT, Danganronpa, and ZE, because I don't want people being scared off.

-----

I've played an embarrassing number of mystery-focused games on Steam. How many? Too many. Like eight of them during Covid lockdown alone. I love mystery stories, I love goofy nonsense, I love grand impossible plot twists, and I love waifus. Awkward Japanese mystery games combine all of these into a single "this barely qualifies as a game" package.

To save you some effort in nominating things I haven't played, here's a list of all the games I've played that I think qualify: everything listed above, Anamnesia, Birth ME Code, Head AS Code, does Doki Doki Literature Club count?, Gnosia, Lost Dimension, Process of Elimination, Return to Shironagasu Island, Shinrai: Broken Beyond Despair, Paradise Killer.

Go ahead and nominate a game I haven't listed if you think it counts and that I might've played it, I can't stop you, but I'll just veto it if I don't know it well enough. Do not nominate Return of the Obra Dinn, Disco Elysium, or Another Code. I'm still playing them, and I'll just veto you if you do.

Final Fantasy Tactics

Charmeleon/Serperior
Rockruff/Kabutops
Voltorb/Dodrio
Kingler/Dudunsparce

Starcraft

Worst Movie

Giratina/Samurott
Mandibuzz/Reshiram
Gible/Toucannon
Stoutland/Clauncher

DmC: Devil May Cry