Lurker > Suprak the Stud

bng_mmmk posted...

I want to say that I keep my game persona and scumboard persona separate. Like yes I was drunk and I was ranting about the setup on the scumboard, but I was never going to give up or roll over because of Leo's role. I knew I was in a great spot to have a chance at winning anyway. I just needed to vent out of game in order to keep my balance in-game.

I made posts like "I'm not that upset, just sighing because it's going to be a long game." or "Knowing we can't kill Leo changes my whole perspective." Or "Man I'm not salty in a real way but that role is STUPID." and stuff like that

Just reading it, it certainly seemed like the coaching Chris was giving helped, but I suppose I could be wrong! It just looked like at various times that you, Han, and MI wanted to "give up" to various extents. Again, I didn't know what was going on in your heads exactly so I could be way off, but there was a possibility the overall environment of the board turns very negative if Chris isn't around.

(This isn't taking anything away from you btw I still think you played out of your mind)
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

My Immortal posted...

I only wanted to give up after Leo recruited Scare because how could I argue my role and his role co-existed?

Then I argued (with help from turbo of course) out of the lynch that day anyway!

"town never knows what scum has"

There was already paranoia that Chris was a perma strongman, which would make most protection in the game utterly useless so you could've played that up some! There was actually discussion on the mason board (or was it in game?) that Scare's doc save could've meant nothing with perma strongman Chris in the game.

Again, the real counter to your role was actually Leo, because Leo was a delayed jack essentially. But I would put multiple jacks in a game too so even that wouldn't doom you.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

ALSO for future scum teams, never quit halfway through because of role meta. There is a great chance you don't know the full set up and it is entirely possible things are not nearly as hopeless as you believe. People lie all the time. And, even if the host messes up and things are unbalanced, giving into DESPAIR won't make things better. Wait until you see the full role list before losing your mind.

Actually, Leo kind of broke GOT3 in a similar way. He had this outrageous claim (he had been a super doctor - a normal doctor with a one time self save at the permanent loss of his doctor powers). He died normally and was revived by the game's reviver. Now, the reviver brought him back as a vanilla so he didn't have any powers anyway. He comes in, claiming the super doctor was something crazy (maybe he can doc save two people at once - I forget) and how being brought back to life made him BP or something like that. Something bonkers overpowered. Plum (also town) who had previously been irked about something else PMed me telling me my game was hopelessly broken and basically quit by laying down a terrible vote at MyLo.

It actually wound up not mattering because before scum could scum hammer, Parkman got mod killed for copy-pasting his PM and Tony got killed for posting two hours after that stop >_>

But Leo almost broke the scum team this game after breaking town the last game - both times as town and both times with his NEFARIOUS LIES.

It is weird how I seem to keep on replaying the same game over and over again >_>
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Leo3L posted...

Welp, I read the scum board against my better judgment. Time to retire.

GG all, and especially to Suprak for hosting and writing funny posts when he was around. You made the Good Game, my dude.

I wouldn't take it personally. I am like 95% sure what you and Chris were both doing was STRATEGIC rather than actual taunting.

I don't think you were gloating in game - I think you were trying to psyche out scum (and it worked!). Your play completely demoralized them to the point I thought they might just roll over at a point (if not for Chris).

I don't think Chris was actually insulting you - I think he was trying to psyche up the scum team (and it worked!). If he just sits there and goes "boo hoo Leo is too strong" there is a very good chance scum loses this game. It is much better for morale to sort of be jumping up and down going "look! he's not doing anything! this isn't an important role at all and he's not even playing it well! everyone just relax" just from a psychological standing.

Personally I thought you played your role brilliantly btw. You're probably pretty bummed right now, because this was a LONG game and you guys came so close to winning, but I think after a little time has passed you won't be as disappointed.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Actually, one of the motivating factors for the dead mason board was that if Leo died, I was going to let all townies go in there and chat amongst themselves. The reason I wanted that role is I always see people come in after the game and go "oh so and so was extremely obvious what is wrong with you guys" (not meant to slight anyone here - I am absolutely guilty of doing the same thing in the past).

So, here you go. Prove things were obvious after you died. I think it is easier to sort of sit back and glance through and go "oh this and this was bad", but when you still have a stake and voice in the game, it is much more difficult to get the "obvious" ones.

I don't think puns was obvious at all. He did some....strange things....but even with a horde of some of the best town players whispering in Leo's ear, not a single one of them had any serious doubts about him. FFD/Scare/Leo/Stan/Boko...these aren't rookies. I think this definitely indicates there is a difference between casually reading along and actually still being invested when you don't have an active voice.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

bng_mmmk posted...

scum board is pretty good imo

chris actually posted an audio clip yelling at me for posting the whole scum team

=P

I will obviously never do that again but MAN the vindication is fucking sweet right now

I thought for sure FOR SURE that would bite you in the butt when it became obvious you were going to be the last man standing. Especially with Nana "statistics for days" Hara in the final four.

But, again, "what the hell do I know" apparently.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Oh, and to the townies that said something along the lines of "we can't kill MI because Suprak wouldn't put ninja/persistent in the game for no reason"...

http://makeagif.com/gif/i-did-warn-you-not-to-trust-me-wEY-bi
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

The one thing I didn't like about Leo's role is I LOVE chatting with dead townies after they pass and was unable to do that this game.

Sorry I never responded to you Scare (or dowolf or Boko). I read all your messages though!
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Scum board: http://s15.zetaboards.com/Fishing_4_Beginners/forum/5108583/
Mason board: http://walloffacees.freeforums.net/board/1/general-discussion

I don't think I made them public yet, but I'm going to sleep now and can't take the ten seconds to figure out how to do that. Just make a temporary profile for now and I can unlock them in the morning!
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

ScareChan posted...

So if I end up tieing day 1 I guess scum just pulls off puns anyways

...maybe.

Han and Shad were very nervous about pulling off Puns for no reason.

But I bet MI jumps on FFD at that point.

Which would actually make Puns worse come final 4 after MI flipped!

I dunno, it is tough to say for sure though.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

VeryInsane posted...

bng_mmmk posted...

oh yeah a fun thing was when VI pondered that if scum had a usurper it was probably me and it was probably Euron

I was scum and I was euron!

just not usurper.

I mean, it was a brief thought that I never pushed

I thought roleblocker made the most sense just because of the tongue cutting

DRAGON HORN for reasoning.

Close though.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Suprak the Stud posted...

Death's master thieving list:
Euron - You were unable to steal anything
Asha - You were unable to steal anything
Theon - You were unable to steal anything
Aeron - You were unable to steal anything
Victarion - You were unable to steal anything
Rorge - Why'd you steal from yourself, you big dummy?
Doran Martell - You stole a palanquin. Jerk probably wasn't using it anyway.
Lady Stoneheart - You stole a clump of white hair. Gross.
Brienne of Tarth - You stole a damn fine sword. Looks real nice, this one does. Probably would fetch a couple hundred gold dragons, heh, heh, heh.
Marillion - You stole a harp. If only you knew how to play the damn thing.
Guild of the Faceless Men - (If no one has been recruited) You were unable to steal anything. (If at least one player was recruited) You stole...what the hell is this? Is this a face?
High Sparrow - You were unable to steal anything
Osney Kettleblack - You were unable to steal anything
Arya Stark - You were unable to steal anything
Samwell Tarly - You were unable to steal anything
Arys Oakheart - You stole a sword. You've seen nicer ones.
Randyll Tarly - You stole a sword. Looks nice enough, I guess.

OH.

This also reminded me: Death was initially a somewhat stronger scanner. He still got nothing from Theon, Aeron, High Sparrow, Osney, and Arya, but he could catch three scum and got things from.a couple other townies. FFD was originally a one-shot BP in the game, but I was afraid if he claimed one shot BP Leo would figure out "ah yes that makes sense with my role" since Leo didn't get powers if they were used up and I didn't want that. I didn't want him being accidentally "confirmed" in that way. So instead I bumped him up to full BP and took away goodies from Death to compensate. Strong protection, weaker scanning. I think I like it better this way anyway.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

OH

And I almost never say something like this so tuck it in your back pockets for next games.

I hate usurper roles. I don't think I'd ever use one. It's basically "death miller" levels of douchbaggery to me. Being scum is hard enough. I don't want a role in there making things less fun for scum by sowing disunity in the team. It kind of undermines what I like about mafia.

Of course now maybe I'll use it next game JUST TO MESS WITH YOU GUYS. Or maybe not, who knows.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I mean again, Leo was a delayed Jack that only got powers if he could recruit and then use the skill WITHOUT being roleblocked either time. That is tough to pull off. PLUS there was only one real strong scanner in the game. Town had high protection but low scanning so if you guys botched a kill or something, there would still be plenty of mislynches to pull from.

Also, his whole "hamming up how bulletproof he was" thing was just a schtick to annoy you guys so you'd leave him alone. And it sort of worked! He wasn't actually trying to rub it in your faces, he was trying to dissuade you guys from shooting him again/roleblocking him in the future.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

bng_mmmk posted...

as soon as Chris decided to let leo run loose in favor of blocking death and shooting boko, I knew shad was getting doomed so I was going to hard bus him and Han to cash in the town points. When leo revealed recruiting Stan I really wasn't too bothered (as the scum board indicates) because while the role was annoying I knew it booked me a ticket to end game.

I mean you guys could've, you know, blocked him if he was that annoying!

(Also you all correctly deduced he was multi use based on the power I gave MI specifically so you would deduce that so I don't feel too bad!)
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

ScareChan posted...

By the way hope things are well on your family side of things suprak

Everything is fine now, thanks!
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

ScareChan posted...

Its fitting that it came down to end of game for it to break though. I was having flashbacks of getting the last scum and convincing Dels not to lynch me, so it was insipiring me

There was part of me that thought something crazy might've happened where scum gets overconfident and doesn't block Leo, resulting in a last second miracle win for town.

OH OH OH! I FORGOT!

Chris posted something in the topic along the lines of "never ever scum hammer Puns don't do it ever. You don't know what powers town has so be safe."

AND THEN HE DID IT

AND THERE WAS A DOC SAVE STILL OUT THERE

If Puns doesn't do it, Leo might just save him there anyway. But because Leo knew he was scum with only one other target, Leo could've actually saved the game there if Puns got lazy about blocking. We almost saw the ultimate "premature celebration".
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Leafeon13N posted...

Shad, I'm proud of you. Everyone has seen me say before the right play as doomed scum is to say absolutely nothing.

Han, I'm disappointed i expect better from you.

Han actually had something come up and almost needed a replace. He could've fought his lynch harder I think if he had time, because he certainly wasn't doomed. Scum actually didn't need to jettison him just yet.

Right before the flip, there were a couple posts on the mason board along the lines of "oops we might've messed this one up".
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

ScareChan posted...

I thought you played well Jeff, especially for your first game

^

It was honestly better than 95% of all newbies so no shame there!
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Leafeon13N posted...

Also puns i told you earlier with the preemptive grats, you played a really good game. I knew you were an option on the table but i had 0 way to play that card and not get insta lynch. You really had one of the better plays as scum in b8 history, to be quite honest.

It really was one of the best scum games I can ever remember seeing. Even the stuff he did that had me scratching my head like claiming his whole team first post worked to his advantage. I thought it was such a bad decision at the time, but no one even blinked other to think that it made him look even better somehow. "What sort of scum does that?" puns, apparently.

Chris was great too. And MI slipping out of the lynch against KBM (with an assist from Puns) was a crucial moment in the game.

Also shout out to Han for sticking in the game when something came up and he thought he might need a replace. Same thing for red. Games without replaces always wind up being the best games so I appreciate trying to tough it out.

Shad didn't do as much as his teammates really, but he is my board 8 mafia bud/dark beer palsies/guy who Ulti thought was me for like three years, so he gets a pass.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Leafeon13N posted...

ScareChan posted...

t I put the whole loss on me Red. I know I let you down. I thought you were town all the way until I went crazy into trying to crack the game last night. Some rule 1 crept in my mind as well

I had a few regrets on my own.

Back in CC mafia i was town backup and burned someone to the ground for claiming a jack like ability. The roles just dont usually mesh because its not something someone thinks of as host when using backup. But i let my comment on it get brushed to the side. By Han of all people if i recall correctly.

I designed Leo as a "delayed jack" so yeah.

I thought it was weird when the mason board was like "wait with Scare's abilities he is sort of like a jack so MI would be redundant" when Leo himself was actually a jack with whatever one shot abilities he could scrounge up from his palsies. He was the real jack, not Scare.

Scare was just a doctor with a couple confirmable abilities to use to his benefit/detriment depending on how things worked out.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

ScareChan posted...

I havent read all your posts yet Suprak, a bit drained still, but I hope you enjoyed my insanity last night

I thought it was great!

I am heartbroken though that your spotless record now slips to 5-1 instead of the perfect 5-0 it was before.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Jeff Zero posted...

And Jeff the newbie who confused me by not counter claiming Chris and letting him lead that lynch but then wound up causing a three scum pile up because he held his shot.

Again, "what the hell do I know" I guess.

It just felt... right.

It worked fairly well in hindsight!

...well, I still think if you just counter Chris there, you have an extra mislynch to hold in your pocket for later. Especially when he started directing town heavily at the end of the day, only bad things were going to come from that.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I think the consensus was "good player unlikely to be protected by doctor" but scum can correct me if wrong.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

No, I definitely remember you almost killing Menu in Wrestling.

There were two scum that actually did kill their RBer in Valve though, I just couldn't remember who the second one was. Sneaky uwnim, always not posting stuff.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

No MenuWars was the dude you almost killed in Wrestling.

You were town with me in Valve Mafia!
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Nanahara715 posted...

Player X was Uwnim and Corrik gladiated him Day 3.

Uwnim! Thank you, it had completely slipped my mind.

But yes, day 1 role blockers dying because scum panics and doesn't want to look bad happens more frequently than you'd think.

Puns played well outside that though, but man did that really make him look good.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I enjoy going on adventures sometimes. Note the amount of wifom I spun totally fucked town in the end!

FUN

SO MUCH FUN

(you guys might've won day 3 if you play it safe but fun is much more fun, I think)
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

But to cover how "unluckily lucky" the scum team were, they:

1) Got the BP lynched day 1. Hooray! But it lead them to believe Leo was actually BP. Boo. It is crazy how this happened. Puns kept grumbling "YOU CAN'T HAVE TWO FULL TIME BPS IN A GAME YOU NEED TO PLAN THIS BETTER" and MI said something along the lines of "this doesn't make sense there has to be something we're missing" and he was right! Still, I fully understand why you thought there were, and it was all due to crazy bad luck.

2) You guys found the secondary scanning day 1 and put him in roleblock hell. Hooray! But he was mostly useless against you and couldn't actually get any dead to right scans on you. He might have actually been an easier mislynch target if you hadn't gotten him so quickly.

3) You found out Boko was protecting Stan night 1. Hooray! ...but he wasn't doctor, just a bodyguard who could've easily been mislynched.

It was crazy how unlucky you guys got with how lucky you were >_>
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Leo3L posted...

Sceptilesolar posted...

I wish people would not profess to want to step away from Mafia for a while after one good or bad game! I want games to keep firing.

I'm in a bit of a weird position with that. On one hand, this game was a lot of fun and filled a lot of spare time niches that would otherwise be wasted on phone reddit or whatever. And I don't outline all of my mistakes like I did in last post in a self pitying wallowing in a hero complex kind of way, but because it's important to note to improve for future games. Additionally, I've noticed in past games people don't want to play because the post game is full of blaming and recrimination and bitterness, so I'm trying to be liberal with my GGs

But at the same time I put a huge amount of time and emotional energy into the game once I wasn't literally at grand prix vegas, and it's very demoralizing to have all that effort be meaningless, possibly even leaning towards harmful. I don't think I can do better, not very easily. I poured over the game archive, which I haven't been motivated to do for years I'm pretty sure. I just don't think I shake off another crushing defeat when I'm that invested and by happy about it. So if I play, it tends to be a less invested, more casual way which is a good ticket to being lynched for me.

TLDR; this actually did just become a self pitying hero complex post BUT I do think post games should be more positive.

Nana, I'm proud I had faith in your towniness but unproud I did not listen to you about Puns

You guys did very well, I thought! Sometimes the other team just does better, and there is no shame in that. Puns was a great combination of excellent play and almost dying day 1 with the help of two already flipped scumbuds. That's a hard one to figure out.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

FFDragon posted...

In conclusion, had fun. But not something I could do regularly anymore since apparently my activity level was not adequate for some people.

I liked the fluidity and not having to waste energy 'appearing town' while being a force ghost though.

Hit me up in 2020, we can do it again.

Your activity was perfectly fine! Everyone's was, really! I don't need like 200 posts a day. No one does that anymore besides me and I'm just weird.

As long as you're here, posting thoughts, interacting, you are actually playing mafia so I don't care if you aren't constantly active. Boko/FFD/Stan please play again it was great having you guys.

And all the other Mafia regulars too, of course!

And Jeff the newbie who confused me by not counter claiming Chris and letting him lead that lynch but then wound up causing a three scum pile up because he held his shot.

Again, "what the hell do I know" I guess.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Something that I was thinking about over the past day: it is weird to me that what I thought was maybe the worst play for scum/town is what almost wound up winning each the game.

For scum, I was so confused when Shad and Han were content to let Puns die. For almost no reason, too! I've actually seen this before, it was in Valve Mafia (Chris and MI were in that one with Nana and other people too I'm forgetting now). Chris and I spent the latter part of Day 1 yelling at each other and forcing each other to claim (we both lied and caught scum with powers at night). Midway through our screaming match, someone on the scum team does...something (I don't remember) and we all turn on him (Chris/MI/Corrik/me) and he winds up mod killing himself. He was scum something. Then we have a contested day 1 lynch where Nana and Person X both wind up helping us decide it. It was scum RB. So we finished two scum down including RB and it wound up being a 3/4 day town romp. BUT Nana and Person X were both scum. Luckily Nana's fake claim was so bad we caught him any way (I forget how we caught Person X or even who that was), but I was genuinely confused at first because "why the hell does scum kill their RB"?

Well, because they were scared. "I didn't know what else to do"/"what if he flips scum later and then town sees me jumping off and gets me too!"/etc etc etc. I think the same thing happened here. Shad and Han couldn't think of a good reason to get off (hint: town very often uses bad reasons to get off random day 1 lynches) so they just stuck on him and came within ONE "Scare realizing what votals were" vote of losing their RB day 1.

It could've cost them the game. But instead it helped buy Puns so much town cred (on top of what they did on top of that going forward) that they cruised to a victory without so much as a single vote on Puns.

(Also I think if Chris is here that never happens because seriously bussing your RB for no reason on day 1 WHAT WHAT ARE YOU TWO DOING.)

Again though, it worked for them. "So what the hell do I know" I guess. Just a general reminder going forward "scum wouldn't almost kill their RB right away". Well...usually not. I've seen it twice now (and I'm almost positive Corrik almost killed his RBer in Wrestling Mafia day 1 too - some people have different play styles and it can really mess with people's heads).
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

I also really need to thank @MZero11 and @Lolo_Guru for running things without me. I had personal issue pop up right near the start of the game, and I couldn't do all the stuff I love doing when running a game. Flavor, weird names for votals, special lists of the dead/alive players, all that stuff. I always have a ton of fun with that stuff even if YOU DON'T. I'm such a micromanager though that I hated the idea of giving up the game to someone else because I was afraid I wouldn't be clear in how to handle something, they would misunderstand, and it would wind up ruining what was shaping up to be a CLASSIX. And the game was going so well I didn't want to just leave it be, but I couldn't be here most of the time. I tried to find experienced hosts to go instead because I'd at least feel a little better that way, but everyone was busy (or playing!). I was actually going to pause the game at one point, but you all had a rhythm going so I thought cohosts taking over would be better in the long run.

But they both did an amazing job so A+++ work thanks for handling things in my absence!
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Tracker - Middling scanning role. It was primarily a tools to catch Leo or some of the secondary town power roles.

Ninja Godfather - The ninja part wasn't useful by itself, but sometimes there is power in making scum not be afraid of something. Like, if I leave the Ninja modifier off, perhaps they talk themselves out of killing their desired target night one because "oh he might be watched". Godfather was good though.

Persistant Strongman Vig - Nice extra kill. Persistent made him immune to redirects (again, not in the game but just to give them a "oh cool lets do what we want and not be afraid of bus driving etc" kind of thing). They did something weird with this and I never figured out why. They had MI bus the targets, then Chris shot through them...to confuse town. Which was weird. Because if he flipped...why wouldn't town just assumed that "oh sure they bussed these two people, shot with their normal kill, and then Chris used his super shot on the other guy". What was to keep town from thinking that sure, the bus and shot happened, but it was the other scum that used that shot and Christ just killed Scare instead? I missed that part of the argument, I think. He claimed he shot through the bus drive (which he did)...but why not just have their normal kill use the bus drive to go around protection and have Chris shoot the other guy? What if Scare had been doc saved? It would accomplish the same thing without the risk I think. Unless they were afraid of being tracked, I suppose.

Jack-of-all-trades (Bus drive, Body removal, Psychic, Name Scan) - A good solid jack role. Bus drive is crazy strong, body removal was an excellent counter to Leo's role (it mostly existed to make them aware of the fact that someone could do something to dead bodies from the get go - I think they actually guessed the dead mason recruiter thing right away). It also lead them to figure out he was multi use before he claimed it because "why have this if he could only do it once?" Plus it was actually functional as it removed a town power from play (particularly if they use it to get rid of doc or one of the scanners). It would doubly screw with Leo because it made the player untargetable, and the way I treat that is a reflexive roleblock on anyway taking action on them. So if Leo tried to recruit and use an action on the same night, he would get roleblocked for both (and not even know why!). I thought it was a good soft counter to Leo's role, to go along with their one-two punch of role blockers. Psychic is "fine" and name scan was kind of a weak power to round things out.

So there you have it.

I hope Puns/MI/Han are slightly less irate now that they see Town wasn't nearly as strong as they thought they were. I still think this is a really fun set up, and I was honestly really happy with the way basically everyone played. It was a great game from top to bottom, fun to read, and I think just about everyone played well. I hope, at the very least, you had FUN.

SO MUCH FUN.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

WEAK ROLES:
Bodyguard - Basically just exists to die. Plus a classic scum fake claim. Unlikely to really do much damage by itself. Plus, there are really only three town power roles that would be beneficial to protect AND scum had two ways to avoid kills day 1. Easy mislynch target. Scum got extremely unlucky tracking him night 1 because they wound up thinking he was the doctor and shot him directly. Boko would've been a prime mislynch target so scum really got a tough draw there.

5 vanillas - I usually either go: vanillas = number of scum players or vanillas = number of town power. Wound up going with the number of scum players here because bp/bg/nerfed thief were all easy mislynch targets in addition to the vanillas.


On to scum roles!

Bulletproof RB - Fun fact! In my original 19 player game, scum had a rotating roleblocker and I really liked that. It was whoever blew on the Dragon's Horn for that night was the roleblocker, and as long as they weren't lynched the next day they could pass it to someone else (they couldn't do it two nights in a row though as it took a night to recover). Euron was a "rotating RBing enabler" and got to pick who would use it each night, and if he died, whoever had it was stuck with it for the rest of the game. It didn't really work in this set up though, so I went with a backup roleblocker instead. Originally I had Victarion as the backup, but I thought it would be more FUN to just have a kingsmoot if the RB died. Two reasons for this: I don't like scum roles that encourage scum to bus other scum ("hey we can kill the RB and then we get another RB who cares!") and plus a kingsmoot just worked well in terms of flavor and picking the next in line was probably better for scum anyway. I like these "SURPRISE" kinda roles ever since I first saw it in FFD Mafia (<3 FFD Mafia) with the "untargetable" tree stump. Just the right amount of chaos. I tried this in my last game (Fuck 2016 Mafia) where each of the scum roles had secret upgrade conditions. That wound up being a little much, but I thought this would be a nice way to work in the same sort of idea without devoting the entire set up to it.

I didn't spell it out directly, but did put small flavor hints in some of the PMs. I might've put too much because MI read into it a different way and immediately assumed there was a usurper. Then Shad, Han, and Chris all tried to kill puns right away and I legitimately had to check their role PMs to make sure I didn't accidentally mention it somewhere because I couldn't figure out why they were trying so hard to kills puns otherwise.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Leo3L posted...

I kind of like the idea that FFD was Obi Wan force ghost mentoring me, and Chris was mentoring the scum.

I think the biggest mistake I made was scanning VI to get info on the D2 lynch. Pretty much anyone else would have been a better choice. And then I didn't get another unroleblocked night for the doc save. Though not roleblocking me this night would have been funny.

It was awesome seeing the last day play out as one scum (and dead buddies) vs. Leo (and dead buddies). I thoroughly enjoyed Scare's leg work (even if it lead to the wrong deduction in the end).
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Nanahara715 posted...

Fuck Everyone Who shat on me at the start of Day 5 for saying that the Han lynch appeared planned and thus Puns was scum.

Granted it was scum and Leo, but whatever.

The math never lies. Getting 4 of the scum right in your first post is only a 1/78 shot. No way I convince Leo/Red to lynch Puns final day even if I had been able to convince myself.

I thought "oh hey Nana's crazy boring math routine is going to be Puns undoing". It was literally the one time the entire time I've played mafia that you cracking out the calculator would lead to a solid argument. Because the odds were 0.2%.

But then you come in and basically say "eh he's probably fine".

Also, if I was here the full time instead of having to catch up from my phone long after thing happened, there is a good chance you may have been mod killed! Gaming my decisions when I can barely post and keep up do to personal issues is bullshit and trying to use that in your defense because you don't have good arguments is even moreso, imho.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I actually called Han on the saturday I was with FD to calm him down. It felt kind of cool actually, being a calm headed coach. It makes me feel like I have finally transitioned into a mentor role after all of these years. I am proud of all my beautiful scumbuddies.

It was seriously HUGE. Scum needed that. Even if things were 100% as bad as they thought (hint: they weren't) you gotta play through and I think your calming presence helped a ton even after Jeff was very mean and shot you for having fun.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

bng_mmmk posted...

I posted my whole team immediately to start the game!

lol!

Chris (and my) immediately reaction was "OH SERIOUSLY WHAT THE HELL".

But when Scare was doing his crazy thorough detective work on the mason board, he quoted this and said something along the lines of "you know scum isn't going to do that first post in the game". And Scare is probably one of the top three town players on the entire board.

So "what the hell do I know" I guess.

(Ironically I think your original idea of "I'll claim my role!" which Chris was ok with...might have been more likely to get you lynched as the last member of the team alive.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

(As a note for future games because this came up on the scum board when Puns was having a drunken panic attack, I would never allow two full time bulletproofs in the game without giving scum something crazy like a full time strongman or something - but I could see why they though that at the time. Again this is where Chris comes up HUGE by calming down his pals and telling them to just play though it. I think that coaching really helped)

These three were the "yeah, they aren't getting lynched roles". The rest though were fair game!

MID TIER ROLES:
Bulletproof - Always solid protection. Nothing confirmable though, and the thief wouldn't give anything on him. Could easily be a mislynch target.

Thief - Secondary scanning. He was built to be a weak scanner though, unable to catch anyone on the scum team. I didn't want scum getting hard caught by scans (it was still theoretically possible I suppose, if they claimed something like Cersei it might be weird that they didn't get anything from them but it wasn't 100% damning in any way). Still, they did get stuff from a good chunk of town. Some of it was hard confirming (i.e. the white clump of hair from Lady Stoneheart) and some of it was weak confirming (there were like three swords in the game - although you might be able to deduce that Brienne had Oathkeeper from the description). I wanted a scanner that could also possibly be a lynch option and not immediately confirmed because "oh they claimed scanning power". Scum got unlucky here in a way finding him night 1, because they (rightfully) kept him roleblocked and never realized he was extremely weak and not much of a threat to them directly. I purposely went light on scanning because town was stacked in protection and I wanted to balance that out, so one great scanner and one weak one (with a potential for a one shot backup for each) was all they got)

Vig - Killing roles are always fun! I originally had her as a target bomb, but I never like how bombs tend to immediately claim and then everyone goes "eh well just test. him at some point down the line". Vig *probably* isn't getting mislynched with no other town killing power in the game (and most people probably wouldn't assume scum has two extra killing shots in a game of 17). Could.be a good role for town (in this game it was!) but very often you see it misfiring and actually hurting town. Still, solid town power.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

FFDragon posted...

For the record, if I had to do it all over again, I would still choose getting lynched D1.

I did far better work as a voice in the background and helped keep Leo alive much longer than he would have.

I just missed completely the idea that scum would be okay if their blocker had been lynched D1 because it literally would not have mattered, which was my bad.

Fun times though.

I checked their role PMs like six times day 1 (Han and Shad) because I panicked and thought I had accidentally kept in the text about the kingsmoot because I couldn't figure out why they wanted Puns dead so badly.

(more on this later, too!)
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

(Checking Scare's role PM it was indeed a one time use "unlynchable". I changed it when sending out role PMs but same idea.)

Scum hates confirmable roles. I know I do. Even with power out there, a lot of time scum will just try to control them via roleblockling and kill the confirmables because no one wants confirmed town around. So what if you tack them onto a power role they will want to protect? It is possible scum ignores them and goes hunting for power elsewhere (which is why I gave scum the backup roleblocker - I didn't want town power sneaking by late and then scum having no way to counter it). OR (and what happens here), they blow their load too quickly to confirm themselves and scum shoots them to get rid of the confirmable. Lolo actually mentioned to me when I sent out the role "uh isn't this just going to get the doctor killed earlier" and I was like "nah they probably won't use it right away!" Then they did. And died. I don't think Scare's move was wrong btw so this isn't meant as a criticism (<3 you Scare). There always was the chance scum ignores the double voter because "zzz double voter we'll get him later" to go power hunting which is maybe what he was banking on. Really strong though overall.

Dead Mason Recruiting Limited Backup - Oh man, did this role end up screwing scum over. It shouldn't have, but it totally did. It was the perfect combination of crazy bad luck for scum and good play from Leo/the corpses. Again, at its strongest it was sort of a delayed jack that could talk to dead people. It's best powers were quite good (cop scan, bp vest, doc save), but relied on them not getting roleblocked either recruiting the person or using the action. Now, talking to dead people itself is incredibly strong (because I mean scum usually kills the people they DON'T want talking anymore) so I wanted to make sure there were plenty of counters to this. So scum had the one use body removal that takes a player out (it actually removes them from the game and makes them a sort of paranoid roleblocker at night so Leo would've gotten a "you have been roleblocked" message) and a full time roleblocker WITH a backup roleblocker just in case something weird happened. I wasn't counting on Leo getting a BP vest night 1 and tricking the entire scum team into thinking he was a perma-BP by timing putting on the vest perfectly, but what I was concerned about was the doctor sneaking late into the game and protecting Leo so Leo would up recruiting like half the game. I didn't want the scum team going up against like half the game in one player unless they messed up somehow...and then he wound up recruiting half the game because scum let him be (for good reasons from their perspective mind you). They used it on death instead, which was also CRAZY bad luck on their part because death was a very weak scanner that was supposed to be "mislynchable". It was a non-standard role so I don't blame scum for being caught off guard, and they had the worst luck possible with it, but a lot of the strength here would've been negated if they had blocked him at any point.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Leo3L posted...

If scum had blocked and killed Death in the same night, I would have doc saved him :(

DIdn't need to because of their body removal!

FFD was trying to figure out what the other power on the jack was AND what they had to counter you. That was it. (More on that shortly)
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

So, again, lets look over TOWN power:
We had 5 scum/5 vanilla/7 power. I feel this is fairly standard. I wanted to make one of the vanillas a secret functional vanilla (backup bus driver or "king" where the princess couldn't die as long as they were alive but I was afraid that would get them soft confirmed due to "oh, typical Suprak shenanigans" so I left it.

For the power I would break them down into:
3 STRONG
3 Medium
1 Weak

For strong powers you have:
Ninja Cop - I thought this role was cool for a couple of reasons. I just liked the interplay between Scum Tracker and Town Ninja (Power Role). It was also Town's only real scanning role, so I thought the extra layer of protection would help and prevent him from getting caught in a scan before he had something worthwhile to reveal. Cop also could get dead to rights scans on 4/5 of the scum team. Plus, he had an easy way to just claim vanilla based on the flavor I gave him. Doran wasn't an obvious cop, so a vanilla fake claim would've been pretty excellent. Town's best role imo.

Double-Voting Protector - All time double voter, all time doctor, 2 use day power of making your target unlynchable. I was really curious how this would play out. My goal here (between this and the mason recruiter) was to reward town for playing sneaky and maybe not just claim confirmable to be lazy. I've always disliked roles that exist solely to confirm the player, so the two I put in this game came with a cost.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

A couple of things:
1) When I sent out roles, I actually thought scum might be overpowered >_>. Guaranteed backup roleblocker is tough, and I almost made it one use but I was afraid that if they didn't figure out doctor was hiding in a double voter they could reach a frustrating situation where either the cop or recruiter was going crazy and they had no way to stop it. I kept it as infinite use, but it might have been better served as maybe a two-shot. Didn't wind up mattering!
2) There was no true secondary scanning left after the cop died. Death was half useful, but considering ninja cop is so strong with a scum tracker (plus the potential backup), I didn't want multiple ways for scum to get screwed over on a scan. Thief was more of a "town power identifier" than anything, although I threw in a couple of vanillas with vague "they have swords" things so that it didn't become too obvious scum/nillas all returned with nothing. Randyll Tarly was swapped out for Aemon as vanillas from my original role list specifically because of this. A lot of my vanillas had good reasons to not have anything (Osney is in prison, Arya gave it all up, Samwell is out at sea, so was Aemon) but I was afraid that might make it TOO obvious if a vanilla was telling the truth and I didn't want that meta'D.
3) I wanted either Sam/Randyll or Sam/Aemon as vanilla pairs because last game a couple of people went "so and so must be scum because Suprak wouldn't pick two so related like this with so many to choose from!" Nyah, I would, and I have people who said that last game. It was a dumb argument then and I was kinda hoping someone would fall for it this time but alas I was wrong.
4) I know some people (mostly scum) were upset about Leo's role, but he was lying to you basically with everything he said. He was sort of a delayed jack who could ONLY get the powers if the corresponding town power died AND he successfully recruited them AND he used the power the following day, neither step being roleblocked or else it would fail. Oh, and scum had a backup roleblocker just in case. And then Leo just went around picking up faces like "hey don't mind me I'm just here for the faces". I was 100% sure what would happen was he would wind up claiming and be trapped in roleblock hell the rest of the game (or shot), but scum either believed he was fully bulletproof or totally lying, never figuring out what was going on until too late. Best case scenario this is what Leo has:

Cop scan
BP vest
Doc save
Thief (partially useless, particularly by end game)
bodyguard (no way was he using this)
Vig shot (only useful if vig didn't use it first because he couldn't use any abilities that were already gone)

That's a very fine JOAT (for the first three alone - second three are all kind of useless) but not broken considering all the work he has to do to get them.

5) Scum had a "body removal" that allowed them to perform a kill and prevent any further night actions from being taken on the body (not a full janitor - just to counter Leo's role). It was more meant to show there was a role that could work on the dead in this game, and once Leo claimed, MI immediately deduced that he had to be multi-use because why else have the power I gave him if it was only a one shot? So MI was (rightfully) afraid Leo was going to recruit Stan and kill Shad the next day. Then they decided not to do anything to Leo and wound up getting Shad murdered the next day. I am still not sure why. I think Chris was assuming it wouldn't matter because they just needed one more mislynch so who cares, but that would up not being true because of Jeff.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

First off, here is the big master role list:

1) Euron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Bulletproof Roleblocker - puns
2) Asha Greyjoy, GREYJOY Tracker - Han
3) Theon Greyjoy, GREYJOY Ninja Godfather - Shad
4) Aeron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Jack-of-all-Trades (bus drive, body removal, psychic, name scan) - MI
5) Victarion Greyjoy, GREYJOY Persistant Strongman Vigilante (extra kill, goes through all protection in the game not affected by redirection roles) - Chris

NOTE: When Euron dies, remaining members have a "Kingsmoot" where they decide who will become roleblocker at the sacrifice of their other powers (basically a backup roleblocker for scum - unannounced though hinted at in some of their flavors)

6) Rorge, TOWN Thief (Steals one item from any living player just a flavorful flavor cop basically no roleblocking ability) - Death
7) Doran Martell, TOWN Ninja Cop - Stan
8) Lady Stoneheart, TOWN Vigilante - Jeff
9) Brienne of Tarth, TOWN Double Voting Protector (Select target person is doctor saved that night. Also has a two use day unlynchabilizer that must be used more than twelve hours before a day ends. Also has a permanent double vote.) - Scare
10) Marillion, TOWN Bodyguard - Boko
11) Guild of the Faceless Men, TOWN Unlimited Dead Mason Recruiter and Backup (Can recruit any previously killed TOWN player. No limit to number of recruits but can only recruit one per night. Actionable role that can be role blocked. Each night can assume the role of one player and gain any unused night actions they may have for that night. Limit one use per player (can't use same power twice). Can recruit and use action on same night. Both can be roleblocked. Sort of a "delayed JOAT"- Leo
12) High Sparrow, TOWN Bulletproof - FFD
13) Osney Kettleblack, TOWN Vanilla - dowolf
14) Arya Stark, TOWN Vanilla - VI
15) Samwell Tarly, TOWN Vanilla - red
16) Arys Oakheart, TOWN Vanilla - Nana
17) Randyll Tarly, TOWN Vanilla - KBM

Death's master thieving list:
Euron - You were unable to steal anything
Asha - You were unable to steal anything
Theon - You were unable to steal anything
Aeron - You were unable to steal anything
Victarion - You were unable to steal anything
Rorge - Why'd you steal from yourself, you big dummy?
Doran Martell - You stole a palanquin. Jerk probably wasn't using it anyway.
Lady Stoneheart - You stole a clump of white hair. Gross.
Brienne of Tarth - You stole a damn fine sword. Looks real nice, this one does. Probably would fetch a couple hundred gold dragons, heh, heh, heh.
Marillion - You stole a harp. If only you knew how to play the damn thing.
Guild of the Faceless Men - (If no one has been recruited) You were unable to steal anything. (If at least one player was recruited) You stole...what the hell is this? Is this a face?
High Sparrow - You were unable to steal anything
Osney Kettleblack - You were unable to steal anything
Arya Stark - You were unable to steal anything
Samwell Tarly - You were unable to steal anything
Arys Oakheart - You stole a sword. You've seen nicer ones.
Randyll Tarly - You stole a sword. Looks nice enough, I guess.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Nana has died! He was Arys Oakheart, TOWN Vanilla!

Leo and his merry bad of corpses have been endgame'D! He was NOT BULLETPROOF AT ALL HOLY HELL WHAT A SLICK FAKE CLAIM AND PERFECT TIMING OF HIS ONE SHOT BP VEST. He was actually, Guild of the Faceless Men, TOWN Unlimited Dead Mason Recruiter and Limited (i.e. one shot) Backup(s)!

That means the GREYJOY team of:
DoomTheGyarados - Victarion Greyjoy, GREYJOY Persistant Strongman Vigilante
Shaduln - Theon Greyjoy, GREYJOY Ninja Godfather
Han - Asha Greyjoy, GREYJOY Tracker
MI - Aeron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Jack-of-all-Trades

AND

COMING IN ALL THE WAY FROM BEYOND QARTH WITH HIS CREW OF TONGUELESS WEIRDOS

Puns - Euron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Bulletproof Roleblocker

More thoughts to come shortly, but DAMN what a game from Puns. From Puns, MI, and Chris, really. It is oh so hard for me to pick an MVP. Just great scum play all around. Puns was obviously key, but MI was HUGE slipping out of that lynch against KBM because if he gets there who knows if Puns can run the table by himself. And Chris just dominated the early game AND was huge on the scumboards when everyone else was losing their mind a bit when Leo put on the Leo show. Great calming influence, great MASTER PLOTTING, and some really good WIFOM sprinkled throughout his time in the game (vig claim was maybe not the safest claim with like 10 people not claimed yet but FUN FUN SO MUCH FUN and hey it worked out in the end).

Also, I need to talk about how this was the unluckiest lucky scum team I've ever seen. Like, just impossibly unlucky. Everything that possibly could've gone wrong, did. Things will make a bit more sense when you see the full set up:
---

Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

Votals:
[3] Red - Leo, Nana, Puns

Leafeon13N has been lynched! He was Samwell Tarly, TOWN Vanilla!

Slayers (3):
1) bng_mmmk
9) Leo3L
13) Nanahara715

Ser Piggies:
LD1: FFD - The High Sparrow, TOWN Bulletproof
KN1: Scare - Brienne of Tarth, TOWN Double Voting Protector
KN1: Stan - Doran Martell, TOWN Ninja Cop
LD2: dowolf - Osney Kettleblack, TOWN Vanilla
KN2: MajinZidane - Marillion, TOWN Bodyguard
KN2: DoomTheGyarados - Victarion Greyjoy, GREYJOY Persistant Strongman Vigilante
LD3: Shaduln - Theon Greyjoy, GREYJOY Ninja Godfather
LD4: Han - Asha Greyjoy, GREYJOY Tracker
KN4: Jeff_Zero - Lady Stoneheart, TOWN One-shot Vigilante
LD5: Vengeful_KBM - Randyll Tarly, TOWN Vanilla
KN5: Death - Rorge, TOWN Thief
LD6: MI - Aeron Greyjoy, GREYJOY Jack-of-all-Trades
KN6: VI - Arya Stark, TOWN Vanilla
LD7: Red - Samwell Tarly, TOWN Vanilla

It is now night. You have until 9 PM tomorrow to get all night actions to me.

No posting.
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

STOP STOP STOP

Plz
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/75508243
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Moops?
"I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion."