Lurker > paerarru

Imagine if I watched Babymonster and then I got attached to one of the girls and then I bet YG would eliminate her and then I'd be so mad nahhhhh

KaZooo posted...

Elle did Lia a lot of justice. He stage looks looks tend to be a bit overdone. Granted their MV and Stage stylist kinda throw together likewise outfits.

Agree, for some reason their stylists seem to have yet to figure out how to properly do Lia. Well... that may not be completely fair, I think they've actually learned to make her look better than they used to, it's just that her beauty really demands a super clean, minimal style to come out best, and I guess it would look a bit out of place or not mesh well with the others.

https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/12050b7/newjeans_hyein_vogue_korea_x_louis_vuitton_april/

[insert a couple more meaty paragraphs full of praise for nwjns]

https://i.imgur.com/xl8xA4y.jpg

One of us, one of us!

Kpop summers last all year long! :D

Hmm okay real quick Nmixx still confuses me but I also can't believe they sampled Morning Bells hahahaha yeah THAT is the trippiest thing I've ever heard in Kpop!

Mmm, I'm liking Pixy a lot more since they regrouped.

I know I keep saying this but it just keeps being true, each release I like Twice more and more, npi. Moonlight Sunrise was already great, even with the funny English, and yeah Set Me Free is a bit basic but I just love the direction they've taken, or "lack of direction" if you want. I mean this is Twice through and through, they'd just never really explored this side of them (although they've been circling it for a while). I have no excuses left.

KainWind posted...

I've only listened a few times, but I like the album enough. I like the English version of Set Me Free a lot.

Really? Hmm, I gotta check it all out. You're right, actually I think their English has gotten better, I don't know if it just mixes better with this sound or they just have more experience now lol, probably a bit of both. I wonder why they didn't do this version for Fallon, too? Probably just haven't practiced it. Not like it matters, for one as an elitist purist I still think people should like Kpop in Korean if they're going to like it (but eh). So I guess that's a good sign. But yeah it doesn't sound bad!

KaZooo posted...

Interesting they put Yoon and Sieun on the rap verse. I'm not sure how well Teddy Bear is going exactly, but just kinda interesting they're capable of many different concepts, and they went that way.

I mean it's BP, everyone's gonna rap. Yeah. I love this though, it helps that it's DDDD which is my fav BP, HYLT was getting overplayed already. I know you like it but to me it just symbolizes the beginning of the end for BP. As for Teddy Bear, people seem to love it, go figure, but good for them.

Also just because I'm a stickler for high standards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upi90X8DlbU

Ugh Monday, but not the idol. Ugh Daylight Savings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceieHmOrZZw

KaZooo posted...

Fromis supposedly having a comeback sooner than later?

Hmm! Yeah, well they've been due for a while now actually, but on the other hand that's mostly because they've always stayed pretty active, so they're still doing good time. First comeback as eight, I wonder if and how much they will change, I hope not much if at all actually, I really like their style, pretty much in every sense.

KaZooo posted...

Read this out of context for a second thinking you were still commenting on Twice lol

XD

Hey now.

I finally changed my discord avatar after several years (used to be fromis Nakyung):

https://i.imgur.com/X4JDpzk.jpg

Once again (npi) I wish I was a Once, though. Everything just looks so much simpler! Yeah, not to mention (always) quite impressive on the visual side. That takes effort, too, I mean.

Although I'm actually pretty... reassured? From the aespa previews. Then again this is kinda the bare minimum we should be expecting. On the other hand it's understandable they want to take it slow, gradually change their sound and style, as too sudden a turn can be a bit jarring, as we've seen from some other groups (e.g. Weeekly). And I don't want to say good riddance, because hey it was fun while it lasted, but yeah, I'm glad we're moving on now, already. Pretty critical times.

KaZooo posted...

I've been trying to bite my tongue on this one because I don't want to come off like I'm trashing them.
But honest opinion is both singles feel like a loss in direction.

KainWind posted...

I can't tell if I like Teddy Bear or not. Some parts are cool, others seem off. I like Poppy though, I never really noticed the Japanese version. I probably give StayC girls the benefit of the doubt.

Mmm, I've always said a good group deserves a couple one offs. But yeah Teddy Bear was a bit bland, which is particularly disappointing for them. Like I don't know why BEP thought bringing back the millennial whoop was a good idea. Like, that was a choice. But yeah maybe they just had to get it out of their system, that's very possible with such a traditional sound as theirs. And I thought Poppy was fine? It's fun. In fact I think it's one of my favorites of theirs. I do prefer their brighter side though, my fav A side is still ASAP. Blah blah blah still highly respect them blah blah blah speaking of still arguably the most underrated group of their (sub) generation in terms of visuals blah blah blah my inconsequential ranty opinions.

Yay corporate restructuring, I guess that's what it takes to make music good. Or at least popular. Whatever, I love GOT and I'm not just coping.

KaZooo posted...

They run their choruses with heavier background vocals. It adds volume but kinda just turns into noise at some points. Album was decent.

I know what you mean, sometimes it sounds like a lot going on just for the sake of noise. There's something about tripleS I really like though, in their own way I think they are the ones that best embody the new sound among the newer groups (after nwjns of course). And I understand that not every new group is even gonna be interested in going that way at all, of course (obviously I should say). We've gone over that.

IVE was on Running Man a couple weeks ago. So we should be expecting NewJeans sometime in... October? Alright!

Congrats to my current favorite maknae, Hong Eunchae for hosting Music Bank. Replacing Wonyoung actually.

PumpkinCoach posted...

oh yeah, the list

Wow, Hyunseung is not (even close to) your #1, never thought I'd see the day. And how come you like IVE so much? They might be our biggest mutual like now, after CLC. Also, again thanks for helping keep Class:y relevant. Also can't believe you put Elris there. And Mvsk lol... you're always full of surprises, Pumpkin.

KaZooo posted...

She was pretty much the best dancer in IZ*ONE.

Whoa. I knew you were a fan but dang.

_BlueMonk posted...

i dunno mang, maybe when Hanni becomes a pro wrestler like Sakura

How is Sakura not my all time ultimate bias? See this is what I missed while I was getting into Kpop. Her channel is amazing. Like, she's so SMART. She's an INTP goddess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmdBFtBSC-8

The hats are really silly... but kinda cute, lol. I just, yeah nothing wrong with the MV, the (dark) humor and self reference are funny (a good follow up after the seriousness of Ditto) but yeah it's just pretty hectic and I just wanna focus on them and the music (lol...) so I'm super happy with the perf vids. I love OMG, you know I think it's already my fav song of theirs which is truly, absolutely insane. One thing is certain, there's no resisting NewJeans and this is their year. Okay maybe two things.

_BlueMonk posted...

GFRIEND REVIVAL IS POSSIBLE BOYS

Good for them, hmm, I wonder what the odds are on the other members coming back and/or somehow reforming.

Best. Year in Kpop. Evar. Except for Loona.

KaZooo posted...

Chuu with lines

See this is what I mean. God I love Kpop. Meanwhile...

_BlueMonk posted...

of course, folks are acting like shes in the KKK. A supreme racist who wants a wall

Honestly? Some people shouldn't be getting into Kpop. In fact they probably shouldn't be getting into anything. Sorry I'll tone down the obnoxious gatekeeper act... NOT!

Ruddager posted...

Im just hoping Teddy has zero involvement with the new group, man ran out of good ideas before Blackpink ever even debuted

Hahaha... ouch!

KainWind posted...

This told me a lot of nothing

Mmm... on the other hand it told me everything I needed to know for now. But let's not be too quick to judge I guess.

KaZooo posted...

Industry has progressed so fast. Aespa and Itzy are kinda their own dated sub-generation. They're not bad, but the trends just shifted.

Nod, along with other groups like Everglow, or else something like StayC, Weeekly, etc (Itzy trying to balance a good mix of both currents actually). I mean, every group's case is different of course, but these sub-generational groups have it hard, they have to claw their way out of their seniors shadow only to be met with a barrage of fresh, adorable rookie babies (with the occasional idol legend like Sakura thrown in for good measure... again talk about stacking your odds).

I'm fixated on the execution. This is a popularity that wasn't driven by (ironically) hype or hard promotion. The quality of the product seems to be the focus and doing all the work. The team behind it all has been very smart visuals, vocal aesthetic, writing, musical melodic structure, conceptual depth, picking the correct performing talent to make it happen, and so forth.

I really don't want to praise NewJeans now because it'd make the post ten times bigger than it already is. I'll just post a couple things I wanted to post way back when we were talking about choreo but didn't. It's long, sorry, just very detailed and it doesn't really say anything new, just articulates well a lot of the thoughts that come. In short you're right, a lot of very smart thinking goes into them. I like his analysis of Antifragile also but again, maybe a little too detailed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnExSBcFt10

Also this from way back which is just stupid clowns.

https://www.allkpop.com/article/2022/08/street-man-fighter-dancers-criticized-after-they-are-seen-mocking-newjeans-in-a-now-deleted-tiktok-video

While I don't want to get into contests and comparisons, I do still think NewJeans is a slap in the face to the industry because of this. Probably a very biased and messed up PoV, but I don't see the point of a group like Kep1er existing. They're still new, but don't bring anything different or substantiated to this industry; and this has nothing to do with the talent it's there. NMIXX too. What is that? What was that creative team trying to do? It's just...filler.

Mmm. Something interesting that happened this year is that while 4th gen was blossoming, 3rd gen was reaching its extremes. Did you notice that a lot of groups actually turned edgier this year? There is obviously a change in trends, but it's slow. NewJeans are the ones that are really pushing it. But I think the push will take the whole generation.

See, with me you know you're preaching to the choir. And yet, I love Itzy. I think they're amazing. I'm always surprised by how easy it is for me to like them. I think I've said it before, stuff that by rights should repulse me, I love it when they do it. And aespa... they are the ones that gave me something new. Because for me it took all this time. I can't just drop that now. I don't want to. Now, imagine the rest of the fandom, and it's not hard to see the reason behind things. There's a lot of resistance behind the push.

This was made by a Blink so it's fun to guess at the thought process behind their matching up, I mean some are obvious but there's some interesting ideas, too... Mostly though I just thought it was a nice little review of the last two years, maybe something to look up stuff one might have missed or forgot, I know I had a lot, I mean there's 150 songs here (although I'm only really interested in a few and I don't expect much to come out of it but yeah).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRjL8O6UzA8

Anyways, sorry if I was a little end of the year reflective, again I've had a blast, I hope you guys have a great one. :)

_BlueMonk posted...

also, i stopped paying attention to kara after Damaged Lady, after nicole and jiyoung bounced. I remember laughing at the idea they replaced Jiyoung with a girl named Youngji lmao.

That's the problem, some people saw it that way which I never understood why, I guess in the past this idea of being "loyal" to certain groups or even just members was more prevalent, I might have been guilty of it here and there myself, I mean I understand the idea but sometimes it goes too far. Youngji wasn't there to "replace" anybody, they needed one more member and she was the one chosen.

Watch Roommates Season 2 for more Youngji!

Did they like, not age at all wtf Seungyeon looks exactly the same. Gyuri looks younger somehow lmao.

That's what I'm saying!

YamaChan posted...

I thought about sharing my thoughts on the recently concluded MMAs and MAMAs, but really I'm just happy to see Kara on stage again. Hara's absence will always be felt, but they are still one of my all-time favorite groups and just as gorgeous as ever.

Nod. To me Hara is always alive, seriously honestly a part of me just can't. She was always such a big part of Kpop to me, to everybody right, and now more than ever.

They're as amazing in every respect as ever. Again as if time hadn't passed. I specially love how happy Youngji looks like yeah that's right look at me now bitches.

The combo of Lupin + STEP + Mr is undefeated.

So powerful. So good.

_BlueMonk posted...

i can't bring myself to watch this

just yet

i need to prepare.

wise choice

i wasn't as lucky

it caught me by surprise and now

i'll never be the same again

there are moments when you can close your eyes and it's as if time hasn't passed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g3voeqIJpM

Wait, what the... oh my god. Oh my god.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXmyL8ZwBtI

Shut up, baby! Shut up, baby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2heDnR3sjc

Seriously actually... I want another one! :D

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Awww... really?

The rest of your comment

KainWind posted...

How do you pronounce ReVe Festival?

It's not French, lol!

PumpkinCoach posted...

wrong + not based + touch grass + straight + to + ya + dome + like + whoa + whoa + whoa

really though one of the lsf songs above is alright.

Antifragile right? That shit's a bop and a half man, come on.

And I agree nwjns are still a bit wet behind the ears, but LS know what they're doing. That girl was dancing the Nutcracker a year ago!

Okay I'm sorry, that was uncalled for.

PumpkinCoach posted...

don't care + didn't ask + seethe harder + skill issue + lesser afim fan

Oh yeah? Oh yeah?? Well you... you're... you're a closet Blink! :p

KaZooo posted...

I like this more than her previous comebacks. Credit to how well she's stayed in the game and stays young.

Agree with some possible exceptions it's my favorite in recent years. Maybe working with her hoobaes made her realize who she is, like oh okay look at this then.

_BlueMonk posted...

lol its still forever crazy to me how long she's been in the biz.

shes only like 2 years older than Taeyeon but they feel generations apart. Hell, Sandara and Bom from 2ne1 are older than her lmao.

That is pretty crazy. She was so young when she started. She's like the prototype of the modern, 2nd+ gen idol.

Uncle Elon we need you now more than ever, save us from the wrath of Chuu!

_BlueMonk posted...

ACTUALLY NOPE I WAS WRONG HERE IS PROOF OF HER BEING ABUSIVE

smh narcissist psycho

KainWind posted...

When was the last time Loona did anything as 12?

Not sure, they did promo Flip That all together.

PumpkinCoach posted...

L take + ratio + you fell off + cope harder + midjeans fan

He hasn't been pulling any punches lately.

Happy Thanksgiving!

YamaChan posted...

Attention and Hype Boy just simultaneously became the longest charting debut songs by a girl group in history on the Melon top 10.

Wah... this is really impressive. And yeah that list also goes to show what an amazing year we've had for girl groups.

I think it also relates to one accomplishment of nwjns that's harder to track: buzz. I don't live in Korea so I don't have any direct evidence but although it may not be to the level of cultural phenomenon of a Gee or Bboom Bboom or what have you I noticed their songs made quite an impression on the public. I know within the entertainment industry itself at least some random reference or something playing in the background more often than not it's them, seriously random it's not just bias confirmation, and yes of course I know this is common for any popular group/song but the level of it has been significantly higher than your usual hit. People noticed nwjns more than your usual group debut. It's calmed down a bit now (although yeah still going pretty strong) but just a while back it was all about them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fguHrWQpNI

KaZooo posted...

And JYP still out here, being out there. I mean I get he's promoting at the moment, but it's like watching everyone's uncle.

XD hopefully he can use this somehow as inspiration to give Itzy a good comeback

_BlueMonk posted...

guys

Lily

XD

Anybody watch Produce China, or know Lana in some other capacity?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QcqJin8PpE

This is my latest show obsession. I'm catching up on the first season. It's so terribad lmao... don't judge me!

Rudd, you were right here giving us a play by play as HYBE debuted LeSserafim.

That didn't happen for NewJeans!

MixedRaceBaby posted...

i will forever stan my fellow mixed race babies

Nod, good man.

Ruddager posted...

The fact that they went out of their way to show her in the documentary probably means she'll be on I-land season 2

Ohhh, I see... yeah it's gotta be at least something like that, because the amount of time they gave her isn't some fluke or just to illustrate a point, there's some intention behind it. Hmm.

NewJeans really came out of nowhere, that itself was a gamble move but it just added to their mystique. At least now we have some dates lol, we got a single coming next month, with the album scheduled for January! :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKoA4EgRCBs

Wtf... whoever came up with Danielle gets Best Character award!

YamaChan posted...

NewJeans charisma is INSANE. What the freaking hell?? HOW?? I got this theory that we live in a sub-universe and the author wrote NewJeans to make the perfect Five Man Band trope as a Kpop girl group.

With that said, the prize for most amazing story behind a group has to go to Le Sserafim. Wow. Epic. And it's like the next chapter of an awesome saga. Heo Yunjin gets called back from the States and joins Sakura and Chaewon to make a group?? Genius, whoever wrote this, best fanfic ever. And speaking of I've been rewatching their documentary just these days and what's up with Haruka? Huh!?

Rob_Cesternino posted...

Oh hey, it's been a while.

Just wanted to say that 'Acid Angel from Asia' is amazing. Love the song, MV, and name.

What's incredible about the music video is that its a low budget production done right. It really feels authentic and captures the fleeting days of youth perfectly.

I like it! Good stuff. And yeah well produced, and smartly produced, but still... I just get anxious when I see big, complex project groups like this, reminds me of Loona (and by the way their CEO worked for Blockberry). Of course that can also be a good thing. Interestingly the lineup is still being decided, and the fans actually get to vote the members in, and buy the votes, and via NFTs at that. It's called "fan participation" lol... which hey, it's a smart move right, when you got a bunch of talented trainees and you don't particularly care who goes where, why not let the fans decide right, and in the process cover some of your costs. Where have I seen this before...

Speaking of, BTS Jin came to RM (also going around promoting other places of course). Alright HYBE, that's a good start, keep sending them~

Yes, gimme that!

Any man wanna nwjns in Busan?

https://kissasian.pe/drama/newjeans-code-in-busan-2022-episode-1

Great, LS ruined my Sunday night. I can't watch anything else now! I'm addicted! One listen!

If I don't get a perf soon I'm gonna die.

Eagerly waiting for Antifragile, and full agree again as I'm sure we've mentioned LS's sound is really good, like the whole even more than the singles, very mellow which is greatly appreciated. Also, Eunchae is breaking ALL my biases.

Meanwhile,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkvIzKwzYNc

Mmm... it's pretty good for what it is, after a couple listens I really enjoy it, but to be fair I might not give it even that much if it wasn't them. Still I think they always score some good points. A bit hectic but that's their style and it's better than others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVIPUnVDNQ

In these situations I like to imagine that the comic is somehow channeling and voicing the inner thoughts of another person. In this case that'd be (weirdly enough) Kazuha.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

what are some kpop groups that make songs like I GOT A BOY era GG?

I think this is actually a difficult, complicated question. IGAB was a pretty different song for its time, a time when (girls) Kpop used to be very formulaic and followed certain styles closely, with few songs one would call "experimental" like IGAB (I think even by today's standards it's still pretty off beat). At this point we'd have to go through a whole review of how Kpop evolved since then... almost ten years ago now. To a large extent groups just do things differently nowadays.

Sparing that, if I have to pick a group that most closely followed what ironically became the traditional girl group sound (but also developed and gave its own twist for sure), again if there's even such a thing now, it would be Twice. But there are many possible worthy mentions, even here. Actually Mamamoo is another very nice example, still classic pop music but with their own signature style. Mamamoo's style has always been fundamentally different though, more soulful, jazzier than regular, sugary, girl group pop. Which carries a bit of IGAB. Again this all goes to show that all girl groups since IGAB have changed in essential ways (and of course it wasn't just IGAB that did it, but it's one of the most prominent examples because of GG), all of them carrying something of that spirit, which was very influential if for no other reason than being different, but then nothing is that much like IGAB specifically because by design everyone tries to do their own thing now.

What was her crime?

PumpkinCoach posted...

is this song especially good or is it just next to dice.

It's pretty good! And maybe Nmixx should just become a vocal group lol. Kpop's first ever... septet.

speaking of rookie girl groups,

she's killing it.

Wow impressive. And something I never expected to see, Mimi doing a ballet duet. It's a good year to be a Kpop fan. I hope Classy gets more good songs soon. What is this show? Second... World...

KaZooo posted...

I actually don't like wearing jeans but that really are that group.

XD nwjns, reclaiming words and changing clothing customs since... two months ago

"I envision NewJeans as a truly whimsical group not whimsical just for the sake of being quirky, but trying out what hasnt been done in K-pop even though it should have been. The members are ready to go on an adventure with me. Even before NewJeans debut, we already had the next release planned. If things go as planned, it will also be a very whimsical album."

Let's go!

Sorry this may be harsh but Nmixx just confuses me, what a waste of good talent because yeah, it's not that they sound bad, it's just the songs are a hot mess.

I've yet to give Lapillus a serious listen, nice sound actually even if not my cuppa, I thought Hit Ya was fun, but yeah the bells of girl crush are (thankfully and finally!) tolling. Good to see Shana on stage.

KaZooo posted...

Still my only loked JYP group

There is a bit of repetition with their singles, but I think they nail it almost every time and it doesn't come off lazy like BP.

There's also some apparent growth every time. Yuna has better vocal control, Lia dances sharper, etc.

Pretty bold for a JP release, but yeah that's their sound. Hard agree, as I've said, to this very day I've yet to make a single real complaint against Itzy. Maybe they're not the most exciting of groups but they're always rock solid and somehow they've managed to stay pretty fresh. Also they're one of the most fun groups to watch outside the stage which counts for a lot for fans like me.

Lesserafim comeback next month?

Saw a bit of their documentary. Can't really say I'm ever into that kind of stuff, but I was wondering if how they'd get around the whole Garam thing.
Strong production value, but in the face of NewJeans, there's higher expectation for it to translate into something really good.

It's funny how they went so out of their way to completely erase her from the history of the group. No 15 year reunion with this one!

Man, I wouldn't want to be a rookie girl group this year. What!

I never thought I'd say this but after watching a few cams of the actual stage I wanted a really good shot of the audience just to see how big it was.

https://twitter.com/newjeansblog/status/1572513955687596034

Not too shabby, not too shabby, I might've climbed a tree.

KaZooo posted...

Routine BP gripe for me this time is the writing. That was lazy with a mix of the same recycled context.
Instrumental and flow had potential.

Yeah, this one wasn't that bad I guess. Still didn't give me much (well, not musically...), but at least I can listen to it.

masterpug53 posted...

Considering that The Little Mermaid is the topic of conversation, maybe you should just leave.

Considering you have nothing to say to me, you could just not post.

famfam posted...

sure there is a way to change society without changing thought. what do you think the Civil Rights movement was about? you think peoples' thoughts changes instantly before/after Jim Crow laws were outlawed? No, society changed because of that, and peoples' thoughts change over generations as people get used to being integrated and realizing people aren't the monsters they were made out to be. People of all kinds being represented, being seen as been normal/ok/as good as everyone else matters. It's the same reason why (more) people are cool with gay marriage. You may the change, people realize it's not as bad as they thought it was, and people change their views and move on. Same with will happen with socialized medicine in the US, one day, too. This is why we see intergenerational progress. Thoughts and society adjust/oscillate/progress over time, and laws/actions/movements are what help disrupt the status quo to move things along (very slowly, sadly). This is one of the things people are trying to do to normalize non-white, non-cis, non-male in some cases, people from being in main roles and more diverse roles than they have been for decades. And I am all for that. We just need for it to be normal, then we can "stop talking about it". This is, sadly, a necessary step, since we aren't at a point yet when it can just happen without needing to be commented on. This is similar to, say, interracial marriage, which is commonplace now, but was a big(ger) deal in the past. Now, we can see it (in some places) and not even bat an eyelash. Even in this case, we still it still catches peoples' attentions, sometimes in a negative way, but its certainly moving in (what I consider) a more positive direction. Why? Because things changed, and peoples' views adjusted accordingly.

And I do not dispute whatsoever that it swings back and forth. All of human history shows that there is constant back and forth in society. And that is normal. However, if you look at US history, you'll see it continually moves to the left if you look at long enough time scales. Conservatives continue to fight a losing war, even with (many, perhaps too many, in my opinion) victories along the way.

This is rather complex, and I do see your point, and as I said before even perhaps you're more correct than I believe. It remains to be seen, however, and more relevantly, it's not really the position I'm challenging. All the changes that you mentioned were also accompanied by huge shifts in thinking, over many years, centuries even, that may not have been as obvious as the changes in society, and that I believe are sorely lacking today. Again, I'm not disputing that there is no good in direct change, I'm questioning relying on it solely, or even primarily.

There's even a second counterpoint I could make. The changes you're talking about could also simply be understood as the natural progress of society, or deriving from it, and not only conscious changes to address particular social issues. I could go on but eh.

For now,

Shadow_Don posted...

Bro it's a fucking disney movie. Nobody is expecting one disney movie about mermaids to solve racism.

Sorry, I'm way past the Little Mermaid, you're the one stuck on it.

Also please show us your sociology and/or poli sci degree? And maybe some studies to back up the bullshit you're spewing?

What is this bullshit I'm spewing, that I need to show you my degree or a study to back it up? Please point to it, don't just be an internet idiot, hurr show me your degree durr.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

You're not challenging that idea because no one here has claimed that representation alone will eradicate racism. Also why not respond to post 208?

First off that's not what I'm challenging, "representation alone will eradicate racism", but of course you don't really want to think about any of this so you resort to intellectual laziness. But more importantly I don't need anybody here to explicitly make any claim in order to challenge some related or similar position.

I did respond to 208. I don't know what "evidence" you want, I'm just reading the current sociopolitical climate, perhaps you disagree, in which case honestly I'd call you a little naive. I mean, I could point to this very thread as part of my evidence. There's quite obviously a problem and there hasn't really been that much progress made on it even after a few decades now of holding to the position I'm challenging. And sure, you in turn can show me all kinds of evidence and studies and what not that show that there is some progress made here and there, now and then. Is that what we want, to be eternally locked in this war? Perhaps you even believe that's all there is, that there's no alterative. I disagree.

FigureOfSpeech posted...

"trump was obama's fault"

oh I see *rolls eyes until they fall out of skull*

Again yeah, you look very comfortable dismissing the problem so offhandedly. Too bad the problem stays.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

You haven't explicitly explained your position this whole time, so why don't you go ahead and do that. Because every time someone responds to you and calls out your perceived bullshit you backtrack and say thats not what you meant. So why not avoid all this useless back and forth and state your opinion on the matter and the points you're trying to make.

Again, I don't have a "position". I don't need one, because I'm not trying to advance any particular point of view. I'm just challenging the idea that things like representation, by themselves, and more importantly the mindset, the logic, the ideology behind it helps eradicate racism.

famfam posted...

I'd argue that peoples' thoughts are based on the societal structures. Changes in system thought patterns require a change in the environment.

You can't just magically have people thinking different. You have to change the environment in some way to make people think differently. It's not just a switch you can change through wishing things were different.

I don't know if I would say "people's thoughts are based on societal structures". They do have an influence on it, for sure, but the way people think comes out of a lot more factors than the status of society.

Not to mention that if it does depend on society, then we're stuck. There's no way to change a society without changing thought.

I didn't say it's going to happen magically. And sure, while we're at it, why not change society as much as we can for the better. Hence, representation. But just that won't make any meaningful, lasting change, because you're locked in a power struggle, and power swings. So one decade things are going fine, and the next one you get Donald Trump. Why, because you didn't really change anything, no matter how comfortable it is to tell yourself that you did, and what twisted logic you use to tell yourself that.

FigureOfSpeech posted...

no kidding

But at least I don't claim that's what I'm doing, when I'm not.

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

So you want to have a problem with this and can't find one. You SERIOUSLY need to evaluate your feelings on this and why you feel like you should respond the way you have.

It's a good thing, and this bigoted old argument that if it doesnt fix everything at once by itself that's it's not worth anyone's time is something you really need to look at.

Nah, I don't need to do that. If you can't see the problem then that's on you, not me. I can't make you see a problem if you got your head so far up your collective ass.

My argument has never been that it's not worth time because it doesn't fix the whole problem immediately. But once again, it's comfortable for you to have that take, and nothing else. Thinking is too hard!

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Ok so what do you mean by this...

Simply that racist people are not going to get out of this what one would like them to get. In fact they get something you really don't want them to get, stuff like this reinforces their racism.

I've never disputed that there's nothing good to get out of it. I'm saying, ultimately it doesn't really help the problem, by itself. But by itself it's also not a problem, and there is some good to get out of it.

Shadow_Don posted...

On a certain portion of the population in particular and society overall, yes. At best it hasn't helped the problem the way it's made up to have. And again, if you need a source on this...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I'm asking you for a source on a large group of people seeing themselves represented making them more racist.

Well ask somebody else because that's not my argument. And again, representation by itself is not a problem. This is one of the very first things I said in the whole thread.

bigblu89 posted...

The claim you made was "Again, you're describing what goes on in the heads of people. That's not necessarily reality."

So... What is the "reality".

No, that's not a claim, that's a quite accurate and modesty aside, insightful description. Do you not agree with it? Isn't identity a "social construct", to glorify an illusion?
Reality is a lot of things. For example, again, the fact that there are genetic variations in some human features. But once again, my intention hasn't been to describe reality.

Shadow_Don posted...

Huh?

Challenging an established point doesn't mean you get a free pass to not have to back up your claims with data and research.

What are these "claims"? I haven't made any claims. Please point out to me a "claim" I've made.

The only one I see is "there are genetic variations in a number of features of human beings". Do you want my degree or research on that?

Shadow_Don posted...

So uhhh.. you gonna show us your degree? Or some data or studies?

Because your saying all of this with a lot of confidence.

No, because I'm challenging an established point. A challenge to which you apparently have no response.