Lurker > legendary_zell

It's absurd, my sister just went through it. She'll be paying more than she used to pay for a whole apartment to live with a stranger, but at least she'll be where she wants to be.

King_Rial posted...

I feel like he is a superhero?

He definitely is, you're right. If Batman is, he is.

Tuxedo Mask is definitely a superhero.

Oh a troll. I should have known better.

HighOnSolar posted...

if society were run by me, those things wouldnt require anything. Theyd just happen. You know, because I run society.

unfortunately most of us here dont run society and just want to drive to and from wherever the fuck were coming from.

You sound like an idiot.

You have to try hard to misunderstand a simple post this badly. The if you ran society part is not about you literally running society, it's a common phrase meaning if you had your way. You don't understand something that basic and yet you're calling me an idiot?

The point is that your "protest/movement can't inconvenience ordinary people" test would have stopped all of the progress that you rely on for that "peaceful" life.

Zorro

If society was run by some of you, we wouldn't have a minimum wage, maximum hours, safety regulations, the right to unionize, civil rights, women's rights, or even the US as a country etc etc etc. All of these things required huge societal upheaval, if not outright mass violence. Big positive changes generally don't come without death, destruction, riots, marches, boycotts, strikes etc. Meanwhile you guys are complaining about a road being blocked temporarily.

You are all the white moderates MLK Jr. talked about. You oppose social changes or don't think they're necessary or pressing, and you hide behind hypothetical ambulances to spin your indifference as concern and other people's concern as indifference.

They want to spark right wing reactionary backlash that will result in the paying less taxes, getting worker protections cut, unions crushed, and less oversight. As well as more police surveillance and harassment of poor people and minorities.

A lot of people who posted these topics essentially want the same thing. They don't care that they're buying into an inaccurate version of reality that has them baying for small time criminal's blood and paying no attention to systemic exploitation. It also has the wonderful side effect of making even some so called progressives reflexively hate any elected politician left of Reagan.

Because being on the actual left requires a clear understanding that current systems are broken in specific ways. Being a centrist or conservative comes from thinking that a broken system can either be fixed or is actually good, or that it's scary/unrealistic/childish to not accept things as they are. You can't change these systems by being a "centrist" on injustice. Neutrality on injustice being accepted or considered "smart" is only useful to the unjust.

Supporting the status quo actively or passively makes you functionally right wing, regardless of your self-image because actually changing things is not possible through anything short of active engagement. Inaction helps the status quo. Inconsistency helps the status quo. Both sidesing helps the status quo. Half measures, compromise, and patchwork "solutions" help the status quo.

To provide a historical example, a left wing economic position would be giving more power to workers. Whatever form that takes, from strong regulations to unions, to worker democracy, such a thing can't be accomplished through half measures, half hearted support, or agreeing with capital on some things and labor on others. Any success was pushed forward by radicals who fought and died for the idea that labor should organize. Centrists were the people who thought "a union might be okay, but the laws shouldn't be too strict/no one should strike/they shouldn't sabotage/they shouldn't fight the police" etc.

Centrists may signal that they might support some final goal, but passively or actively block the methods that would actually get people there. They do this because they don't understand the true problems with the current system or they think it's outright good. Their stance benefits the right wing.

Tl;dr, centrism can be passive and is compatible with and necessary for right wing victory, while leftism is fundamentally incompatible with the status quo and right wingery.

trivialbeing posted...

"What is an example of liberalism?
The fundamental liberal ideals of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the separation of church and state, the right to due process, and equality under the law are widely accepted as a common foundation of liberalism"

All things anathema to leftists.

Who starts and operates the legal, advocacy, and media organizations that support and defend these things? Would you say the ACLU, the Intercept, EFF, civil rights organizations, public defender's offices, mutual aid groups, etc are staffed by conservatives, or by people generally significantly to the left of center, if not socialists/anarchists/communists?

thronedfire2 posted...

yeah, poll numbers out of Gaza shouldn't be taken any more seriously than poll numbers out of Russia.

That doesn't make sense in this instance because the poll numbers are opposed to the current regime there, rather than in favor of it. Poll numbers that showed widespread opposition to Putin would be notable, while ones showing widespread support might not be.

A big problem we have is treating the Republican Party and ideology as valid. It's not valid. It hasn't been for a long time. People that sign onto or support this are bad. They are extremists. People buck against that idea because they know people who vote Republican, because there's tens of millions of them, and because they don't want to acknowledge the implications of that. But that's the reality, and it needs to be addressed head on. A process of understanding how millions of people ended up this way, of offering a real alternative from the left, and of deradicalization must happen on a national, state, and local level.

FlyEaglesFly posts the same "if Hamas put their weapons down" canard in every single topic and in every single topic it's refuted, yet he just posts it again in the next topic. He never ever acknowledges apartheid or the choice Israel has made to be an enforced ethnostate rather than a multicultural democracy until called out. And even then, he never does it without in the same sentence deflecting to something emotionally upsetting thing to distract us from that baseline, independent reality. Certain actions are necessary to maintain an ethnostate as a minority population in an area. Those actions are the exact actions that provoke both peaceful and violent resistance and stoke hatred the descends into mutual genocidal intent.

Apartheid, settlement, and blockades must end and democracy must begin for anything to change. If those conditions do not change, you are at best hoping an oppressed people will just take it indefinitely for the benefit of Israeli comfort. Or hoping those people just stop existing in that area at some point... for whatever reason. Everything Israel has done is driven by and consistent with one of those two irrational hopes.

Also, a judge denied his motion to dismiss the charges for the assault. That doesn't not in any way indicate guilt on his part, but it does indicate that statements that any "evidence" that he released that "exonerates" him and should get the ball rolling on sending his accuser to jail instead could be premature, incomplete, or misleading.

The article Horny posted says the DA explicity filed a motion refuting what this article says. And says that his team has been involved in a lot of shady stuff trying to taint his accuser's image and leaking misleadingly framed evidence. We've seen that with the disastrous leaked messages, the laughable staged attempt to break up a fight, etc.

No one has real evidence of what happened here other than Majors, his gf, and maybe law enforcement. If you're going off about how headlines from obscure websites prove there's an agenda against men and women who make accusations should be prosecuted, you're doing the same thing you're accusing others of doing.

I was really worried during 2020 that we'd see a lot of violence and intimidation at polling places. People's brains will have had four more years of melting and the threat of Trump's incarceration, plus him calling for intimidation openly again. Unfortunately, I think it'll be much worse this time.

Damn, Adolis haaaates the Astros. GG

Right wingers here wanna do the same thing. They don't believe in government, except to the extent that they can use it to direct benefits to themselves or enforce social hierarchies.

Not sure what more he could really do to establish himself as more of an antisemite, short of goosestepping.

Try Everything. It fixed this problem for me.

https://www.voidtools.com/

I really hope this wasn't a hate crime, if so, things could get ugly there. I hope her killer is brought to justice, no matter what's going on in the world or in an individual's life, there's no excuse for antisemitism or murder.

American Criminal Justice System when eviscerating an impoverished black teenager: Unlimited Powah

American Criminal Justice System when it might have to say a mean word to a rich fascist: I'm too weak.

All of this being "good" is premised on the idea that they get Trump and he goes to jail. Even if that happens, all these slaps on the wrist for coup plotters and fascists will just embolden them to try it again or make sure not to give up the Presidency next time. I don't see why they couldn't have imposed harsher penalties AND gotten them to flip. These people were all dead to rights.

And yet he is still part of their party, almost uniformly votes with them, and was part of setting the groundwork for their rise through spreading soulless corporate raider capitalism that destroyed the working class and made them vulnerable to these grifters.

Not to say that he's wrong about any of this. He's completely right on a micro level. But then the solution is to oppose these people in every way, not to lead their party.

And it's not like he can't easily be described as sanctimonious, severe, and strange himself.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

This whole thing started with Hamas killing kids. Everyone of you acknowledged that even if Israel did negotiate with Palestine, terrorism would still occur which means more dead kids. It is the responsibility of a government to keep its citizens as safe as it possibly can be, which is why NO ONE negotiates with terrorists.

And again none of you have a response to the REALITY that Israel was attacked by terrorists who murdered over 1000 people in cold blood and then hid behind their human shields. Not once in the two weeks that Ive been banging the table repeating this point over and over again has anyone provided a viable alternative that any other civilized country would do if they were faced with the same circumstances. Because you cant. This is what you call a no win situation for Israel, but at least you can stop the god damn Hamas from trying it again. All a ceasefire gets you is a suspension of violence before this shit happens again in a year from now, two years, whatever. It hasnt stopped in twenty since Israel left Gaza in 2005.

We've all been over this over and over and you never acknowledge it. First, the history of atrocities between Israel and Palestine does not start when Hamas launches their latest attack. Quite a few relevant things happened before that.

Second, Israel is not starving and bombing their way out of this. There's a bombed out, sickly, imprisoned population that you have to deal with and you can't do that by bombing, sickening, and imprisoning them even more. That is only creating more terrorists as we speak. Hamas is not any closer to being dead from all the Palestinians that have been killed so far. What level of violence would it take to make that happen permanently? How would that level of violence not just create more members of Hamas, especially if you're committed to the idea of bombing rather than targeted special operations.

Third, no one is really disputing that any major world power in the same situation as Israel would do the same things they're doing. That doesn't make those things acceptable. Nationalism, fear, and hatred, and dehumanization are the hallmarks of war and of colonial powers and they lead to the same ends reliably. It'd be bad if America did it (and we did do it in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it was an ineffective disaster). The whole problem is the situation. The situation is ethnic cleansing, apartheid, blockades, occupations, denial of sovereignty, and illegal violent settlement.

TL:DR, fix the situation that inspires Hamas AND get rid of Hamas, that's the only way to end this. That's not even on the table though because the Israeli government, military, and their supporters seem to think collective punishment and increased violence is what will permanently solve this.

Man, Nate Silver has gone increasingly mask off.

This type of Democrat is the absolute worst. All weaponization of the forms of moral outrage and social justice language with none of the socialism or the justice.

Definitely no genocidal statements and actions though.

Link_of_time posted...

This is even more evident when you compare to it's peers like League of Legends. Riot was an independent unknown company, opposite of Blizzard/Activision. With animated lore video, comics, cg animations, they expanded their world/lore and have grown significantly. It now has multiple successful games based on League, numerous #1 music videos, one of the best animated shows to exist, a thriving e-sports league, and stolen marketspace from OW with their own shooter Valorant.

Riot did everything with League, Blizzard refused to do with Overwatch.

This is the biggest tell. If you'd told me even two years ago that League of Legends content would break containment and make me watch despite actively avoiding that entire culture, I wouldn't have believed you. But they did it. There's no reason Overwatch couldn't have done that and more as a shooter rather than a MOBA and with a way bigger studio behind it.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

This is the trouble of it though. It's more like the bullies have been bullying and the poor kids have been ballkicking as long as anybody can remember. This example makes it seem like this started with Israel bullying Palestinians until they snapped and that is not true. As soon as Israel formed there were already attempts to wipe it off the map. So this example doesnt work. The whole thing is extremely messy. It does seem like they need intervention though to try and stop this from both sides

They formed through bullying and displacement though so it DID start with Israel bullying and continuing to bully. Then the bullied kid and their friends brought a gun to school and tried to murder the bully. Then the bully kicked their asses and continues to give them swirlies, knock their papers out of their hands etc and the bullied kid tries to stab the bully in the eyes with a pencil and keeps threatening to get the gun again, and on and on.

From the Palestinian perspective, this started with ethnic cleansing. From the Israeli perspective, they needed a place of refuge because they suffered the worst atrocity in modern history and their historic homeland made the most sense. But those two things always conflicted and continued to conflict.

Literally just a few weeks ago I was saying I was so happy I wasn't an aware adult during the post-9/11 hysteria because it would have infuriated, scared, and disgusted me. Seems we're all gonna live an echo of it right now.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

They are in an open air prison and an apartheid because Israel is afraid of being attacked by terrorists. If the terrorists stop attacking there is no more open air prison.

Of course the palestinians should not have to accept that as the forever state of affairs. There has to be better conditions and things HAVE to move forward. But if Hamas is around that can never happen because Israel will never relent if it is going to put their citizens at risk, and until Hamas is gone, its going to do that clearly.

If people think Israel is doing this just for fun or just to hold down Palestinians, I think they are just wrong. They are doing it because the Gaza governmental body wants to kill all of the world's Jews and after the Holocaust Israel is never willing to let that happen again.

That does not give them free range to oppress anybody and it DEFINITELY does not give them the right to brutally attack Palestinians and they should be condemned for those actions. But Hamas must be dealt with if we want to have peace and better conditions for EVERYONE

Do you genuinely believe that if every member of Hamas was killed/surrendered/turned themselves in today, Israel would let the people of Palestine have self determination, equal rights, and would stop the blockades, surveillance, and settlement?

They would not because that goes against the concept of Israel as it currently exists. Israel as it currently exists is a settler colonial ethnostate that has outright stated that only Jewish people in Israel have self determination. It believes that even though Israel is located in a majority Arab/Palestinian/Muslim area, Israel must be a majority Jewish country controlled by Jewish people, and run for the benefit of Jewish people.

That in itself is incompatible with freedom for the Palestinian people separate and apart from the real antisemitism and hostility Israel faces or the actions of Hamas. So no, there will not be peace if Hamas puts down their weapons.

The thing is, presence of apartheid, occupation, settler colonialism, and blockades is not peace. That's the status quo and what would remain if Hamas all committed suicide today. Like MLK Jr. says, only the real presence of justice is peace, not the absence of tension. Calling that peace is like saying if the leaders of slave revolts would put down their guns, there would be peace. Only from the perspective of slave owners.

The people of Palestine shouldn't have to accept that as the forever state of affairs. In fact, that's not even a possibility, the only possibility is for things to get even worse for them.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

I still think the "Israel wants to genocide" everybody thing screams of anti-semitist propaganda because if thats what they wanted things in the past would have looked very differently. I really really hope that the events of this week have not changed that. US honestly should step in

They're happy as long as they can slowly choke them out without backlash. They get the land, the right wing has a boogeyman to run against to keep the left/people of conscience scared and in check, they keep international support that they'd be in trouble without. We have a hard enough time reacting to quick genocide, our international institutions have no way of dealing with slow ethnic cleansing, apartheid, settlement, and apartheid, because no specific incident triggers a genocide alarm, and violent responses by the Palestinians take the form of terrorism because that's literally all they can do.

All of this costs only the occasional flareup of violence and condemnation by irrelevant foreign groups. The calculus has been changed here because Hamas managed to catch Israel off guard, cut through their sophisticated defenses, and then inflict lopsided casualties on Israeli military personnel and civilians. For the first time ever. That's why quick genocide didn't happen until now, but the possibility has been there since the beginning and the will and the international cover has been growing. Now they're both at their maximum, so the indiscriminate killing begins.

The Republican Party is beyond a circus now. They're straight up non-functional. When you're purely the concentration of every grievance, grift, and graft running in the 50 states, this is what happens. Catch Me If You Can knockoffs having meltdowns with borrowed babies, while you nominate randos and sex abuse ignorers for Speaker.

Dehumanization is the worst thing out there.

It is very important that there be a limit, even if the limit can't be quantified. Asking for a limit is a crucial question here because the upper range of possibilities here clearly includes genocide and there's been no indication by Fly or anyone else taking his position that they have an upper limit.

You're saying that clearly atrocities are going to be committed, seemingly acknowledging that far more innocent Palestinians will be killed than innocent Israelis, but for some reason that doesn't give you pause, and instead you frame the question as do nothing vs a blank check. That's a scary dichotomy.

Asking for a limit is crucial because "doing something" won't even fix the problem if collective punishment is used. The Israeli government will just confirm once and for all their monstrous nature in the eyes of Palestinian innocents. Israel will be forced to commit at least ethnic cleansing. If the survivors are anywhere near Israel, many will have undying hatred towards Israel which will generate groups worse than Hamas in about 10-15 years.

If you are advocating for unlimited retaliation, say so and own it. If you're not open to that, consider whether the Israeli military agrees with your reservations right now.

Low level players need to join guilds and seize the source code and dev tools for themselves! The devs won't do it for us, they're literally paid by the whales. Then we can finally abolish the Republican Par...I mean EA!

It seems like some people who were very pro Israel are starting to understand what path this could take. The Israeli government/military may not subjectively have the intent to commit genocide, but their actions are gearing up to be identical to someone who does. I think their actions are what count here.

Righteous anger or even just anger that feels righteous is a dangerous thing and is the second biggest cause of atrocities, behind outright hatred. Unfortunately, we have both flowing in both directions here. Only one has the power to actually carry out genocide though, and they're speeding in that direction.

I think elected Republicans are incredibly stupid and they'd have to be even stupider than I thought if they allowed George goddamn Santos to collect any compromising info about them.

It'll also be even easier than usual to say he's a lying liar that lies if he does try to drop info. And the sad thing is, the Republicans won't face any consequences for propping up a known liar and fraud.

McMarbles posted...

Totally clears Hamas, thank you!

Are the babies less murdered because there's no proof they were beheaded?

The point is beheading is a deliberate act that promotes a specific emotional response, and that's why it was put forward in connection with every effort to excuse Israel for what they're doing/about to do. In reality yes, killing babies is the worst thing you can do, no matter how you do it, but there's been a long history of people reacting genocidally to allegations that the other side bayoneted babies, took them out of incubators, smashed them on the floor etc. People universally react differently to those kind of things and you know that.

This is not to clear Hamas. What interest does anyone here have in supporting a terrorist group? My interest here is in accurate information, thinking rationally, and not supporting a genocide in progress based on unsourced, unconfirmed allegations.

You are reacting in a hysterical post 9/11 mindset, where you view anyone who calls for rationality, caution, humanity, or even just accurate info is called a terrorist sympathizer.

NY
IL
CA
TX
LA
PA
NJ
VA
MD
DC
TN
GA
MN
OK

I want to add Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Massachusetts, and Connecticut next year.

The problem isn't Jewish people being there or even there being a state called Israel in the region or elsewhere. It's the fundamental conception of the nation that despite moving to a majority Arab/Muslim area, Israel the country can't just be a country founded by Jewish refugees, or a place of special importance to Jewish people, or even a universal safe haven for Jewish people. It must be an enforced ethnostate, that reduces non-Jews to second class citizens, displaces them, and kills them in order to make things "safe" for Jewish Israelis.

There is a path to a secular, Jewish plurality Israel, but that seems to be anathema to most. And it's been known since before modern Israel ever existed that the only way for it to be a majority Jewish ethnostate in that region was through ethnic cleansing, settler colonialism, and apartheid. None of this is a surprise.

Undead undead undead

whitelytning posted...

This.

People dont know either way and they give the benefit of doubt to a terrorists organization. Weird take.

The story may be untrue but until its more clear why jump in this at all?

Because the story was presented as a fact and used as an unquestionable justification for collective punishment and the destruction of Palestine! It was parrotted by the President without confirmation! You're asking why people have a problem with potential textbook war propaganda.

Actions plans and views on this conflict have already been formed on the basis that this is true. That's why it's relevant.

Now they're trying to substitute it with other claims, that babies were burned/killed in other ways. They know the rhetorical effect this type of claim has, that's why combatants have used it since the dawn of time.

It's like you guys learned nothing from the lead up to the Iraq War

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I think everyone can agree on that. The problem is, can the former happen without the latter happening first?

The Israeli government and people certainly can't agree on that, and neither can the surrounding Arab countries or the West. That's exactly the problem here. This presents the situation as if Israel is even willing to consider such things when they are absolutely not.

NittanyLions23 posted...

God, by virtue of omnipotence, theoretically, could possess somebody.

An angel?

Absolutely not.

Why can an angel not possess someone because they lack omnipotence, but demons can, despite also lacking omnipotence? Unless you either think demons are omnipotent when angels aren't or don't believe in demon possession. Many Christians do though.

This is why history is so important. People should know by now that one of THE most common wartime tropes is "the other side are true monsters that don't reserve rights because they're bayonetting/beheading/taking babies out of their mother's womb." Not to say that such things never happen or even that Hamas didn't do those things, but such claims should always be evaluated in a historical context.

The claim is made not to reference reality, but to essentially state "my adversary is so evil you shouldn't care what I do to them" without saying it, and that's never true and always leads to atrocities. It's meant to turn off your brain and your empathy, and that's exactly what it does.

I trust that he'll always do the worst thing and will never exhibit good moral character. With my life.

This was likely a result of incompetence and a feeling of impunity and invincibility, not a conspiracy. They felt they had the best tech, intelligence, and defense capabilities, and the entire West on their side, so they had that ragtag bunch of impoverished rocket shooters under their thumb. They'd know about anything before it happened and thought Hamas would have to be crazy to try anything.

HHH_is_the_game posted...

Yes. But there is no reason to say the second one after a horrific terrorist attack on Israel. Its ok to JUST say the first one and leave it there. It sounds like defending Hamas to bring up the second one in this context

There is reason when the the first is intimately related to the second. When would be a better context? It was heavily discouraged to bring it up in those other contexts as well, to the point of it being made illegal in some contexts (anti-BDS laws). This is similar to the idea that people shouldn't bring up gun control in the wake of a gun related tragedy.

If oppression is not brought up when there's an (unjustified and disgusting) reaction to the oppression, we get stuck in a loop of only condemning one side and never acknowledging what led to that. Like a principal that routinely punishes the student that swings back after being swung on. We end up acting like history starts when the oppressed fights back and inflicts harm on the oppressor.