Lurker > darkjedilink

FrenchCrunch posted...

darkjedilink posted...

And WHEN those mandatory gun buyback programs don't even get a small fraction of the guns in America, who's going to get the rest?

i dunno, that's for our leaders to decide, not me

So, military.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

FrenchCrunch posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Guns are only 'easy' to get in America if you violate the law in some way to get them.

which is why they should be collected and destroyed or melted down or something

And that will never happen. Maybe the FBI and ATF should actually enforce the law and arrest gun sellers and buyers who sell and buy illegally.

According to the mayor of Chicago, gang members drive to Wisconsin and buy "vanloads" of guns to bring back to Chicago, "and it's perfectly legal." Except it isn't. If these people are able to pass a criminal background check (which I doubt), it's still a straw purchase, which is against Federal law. They're also circumventing Federal law with the purchase by not having the guns go through an Illinois FFL seller to make sure the weapon is legal in Illinois. That means that, if Chicago "knows" this is happening, they need to get the evidence of such to the FBI or ATF to stop it.

Also, the kid who just shot up a school in Florida was reported to the FBI multiple times, yet the FBI didn't do jack shit. What's the point of instituting new laws or implementing new bans if the current ones aren't enforced in any meaningful way whatsoever?
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

FrenchCrunch posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

darkjedilink posted...

FrenchCrunch posted...

darkjedilink posted...

The government sending the military to take everyone's private property isn't authoritarian?

okay, so we're going with your scenario of the government sending the military to take the guns

that is an authoritarian act, sure

Who the fuck else would?

my dick

idk i was thinking they can set up a buyback program at gun stores or temporary government set ups

And WHEN those mandatory gun buyback programs don't even get a small fraction of the guns in America, who's going to get the rest?
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

FrenchCrunch posted...

darkjedilink posted...

So the argument I quoted is not valid.

uh yeah it is, guns are easy to get in america which is how they end up in cities that are strict on guns

Guns are only 'easy' to get in America if you violate the law in some way to get them.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

LordRazziel posted...

Defending yourself is a fundamental right.
Defending yourself with a gun is a constitutional right.

Not according to every Supreme Court ruling on the subject.

Owning a firearm is a fundamental right.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

FrenchCrunch posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Going to another state to buy a gun is illegal in most cases, and gun shows still are required to follow state law to sell firearms.

Out-of-state sales REQUIRE an FFL dealer in the state you live in to take possession of the firearm before it's released to you.

so?

So the argument I quoted is not valid.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

FrenchCrunch posted...

darkjedilink posted...

The government sending the military to take everyone's private property isn't authoritarian?

okay, so we're going with your scenario of the government sending the military to take the guns

that is an authoritarian act, sure

Who the fuck else would?
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

FrenchCrunch posted...

DragonGirlYuki posted...

r4X0r posted...

"Gun control" != "Nobody owns guns." Some of the places with the most gun crime have the strictest gun control.

Like Chicago.

oh was he talking about the US? who cares when you can just go to another state and buy a gun, or buy from a gun show or something. i thought he meant outside the us

Going to another state to buy a gun is illegal in most cases, and gun shows still are required to follow state law to sell firearms.

Out-of-state sales REQUIRE an FFL dealer in the state you live in to take possession of the firearm before it's released to you.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

FrenchCrunch posted...

darkjedilink posted...

FrenchCrunch posted...

yo no lie i would love if guns were illegal. i'd feel a lot safer if the government actually rounded up ppl's guns

You would feel safer living in an authoritarian society?

i dont believe that one issue would lead to an authoritarian society

The government sending the military to take everyone's private property isn't authoritarian?
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

FrenchCrunch posted...

yo no lie i would love if guns were illegal. i'd feel a lot safer if the government actually rounded up ppl's guns

You would feel safer living in an authoritarian society?
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Suicide literally isn't violence.

-cide
is the ending
for killing

Violence is an action against someone else.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

mario2000 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

mario2000 posted...

"TECHNICALLY they were ACTUALLY other kinds of shooting incidents on or near a school! haha owned hard"

when you're reduced to arguing semantics maybe you should rethink your position

So you think a suicide should count as a school shooting?

I think if you need to inflate statistics you should rethink your position.

tell me why again we need to split hairs over incidents of gun violence

oh right because it's part of the rightist tactic of wringing one's hands and shrugging one's shoulders whenever the subject of gun violence comes up

Suicide literally isn't violence. Accidentally firing a real weapon when you think you have a fake one literally isn't violence.

It isn't the right splitting hairs. It's the left lying to sell the stripping of fundamental rights.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

mario2000 posted...

"TECHNICALLY they were ACTUALLY other kinds of shooting incidents on or near a school! haha owned hard"

when you're reduced to arguing semantics maybe you should rethink your position

So you think a suicide should count as a school shooting?

I think if you need to inflate statistics you should rethink your position.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Carlbertomfg posted...

Super Saiyan 3 Goku posted...

There was a recent USA Today report that said teens tend to favor iPhones and adults tend to prefer Android devices. As someone who currently has a Galaxy S8+ and used iPhones for the prior 9 years:

Spot. On.

I figured it would be the reverse. Maybe that's for 'young' adults? Most folks 40+ that I encounter are carrying iphones.

Because they can't handle devices with more than one button.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Questionmarktarius posted...

Moving music to a droid is just a simple copy/paste operation, instead of demanding I install bloatware that requires an agreement to let that boatware install still more bloatware.

This.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

Squall28 posted...

Let's go back to the thought experiment. If you remove the 2nd amendment, would it still be a right?

Obviously not.

Incorrect, unless you think a piece of paper has the power to grant rights.

The Constitution doesn't give you rights (it explicitly states that 'our Creator' gave them to us by virtue of being born). It establishes a framework for a limited government, who's sole job is to protect our ability to freely exercise those rights.

The constitution says nothing about "our creator" that's the declaration of independence and has no legal bearing.

The amendments don't grant rights, they limit government power. You're correct that it does not give the right but merely says the government can't limit a right. If the 2nd amendment was removed however congress would be free to limit that right to whatever extent they feel. It would no longer be a right.

And that's why the Second Amendment exists - they knew that people would become so stupid as to think that the paper gives them rights.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Balrog0 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

It did say you can't force renewals of that permit.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. Please feel free to elaborate.

DC also required all firearm permits to be renewed annually, or you forfeit the firearm to law enforcement. As in, your 'license' idea.

That decision made that unconstitutional too.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

LordRazziel posted...

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

Certainly not something to be worried about.

Just because they make up a very small portion of muders, doesn't mean they're irrelevant or it's irrational to seek preventative measures.

When the solutions take away people's fundamental rights, it most certainly does.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Balrog0 posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

I haven't read or know about DC vs Heller, but I am curious about this now.

they ruled that you can't outright ban handguns or force legally owned firearms to be disassembled with a trigger lock while in the home

it definitely didn't say you can't require a permit -- that part of the law is still part of the law

It did say you can't force renewals of that permit.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

Squall28 posted...

Let's go back to the thought experiment. If you remove the 2nd amendment, would it still be a right?

Obviously not.

Incorrect, unless you think a piece of paper has the power to grant rights.

The Constitution doesn't give you rights (it explicitly states that 'our Creator' gave them to us by virtue of being born). It establishes a framework for a limited government, who's sole job is to protect our ability to freely exercise those rights.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

So, once again, there's no path to 270?

It's like liberals wear an inability to learn from history as a badge of honor.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

DundiesAward posted...

If he didn't shoot anyone else unfortunately this will be quickly forgot about. There is a big difference in reporting between a single death suicide and someone killing a few then killing themselves. If student killed a few it would probably have been connected to the Florida shooting.

No, it'll be added to the list of school shootings.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

josifrees posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Balrog0 posted...

I think we should require a permit to purchase guns and expand background checks to private sales, neither of which count as strong gun control but both of which would greatly reduce gun violence in america

100% agree.

The permit should require X amount of hours of training and safety.

This is the most realistic solution

It's also unconstitutional as per DC vs. Heller.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

smoliske posted...

darkjedilink posted...

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

No, it ruled that Heller was permitted to keep a functional handgun without the "one year license" in his home for the purpose of self defense. Nowhere did it say Heller required military grade weapons to do so.

You've never seen a military grade weapon.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Squall28 posted...

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I mean you're definitely wrong but even if you weren't it doesn't change the argument.

I mean beyond what is written down in a law. Human rights weren't just created when the bill of rights were drafted. We shouldn't let one law that was written hundreds of years ago be the standard for what is right.

The option to live a good life which affects every single second of your life is more important than a person's ownership of a gun.

Who decides what entails that option?

How is self-defense NOT part of such?
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Squall28 posted...

Heineken14 posted...

amendment
men(d)mnt/Submit
noun
a minor change in a document.
a change or addition to a legal or statutory document.
"an amendment to existing bail laws"
an article added to the US Constitution.
noun: Amendment; plural noun: Amendments
"the First Amendment"

I find this especially hilarious. They act like the Constitution can't be changed and that it's something that is factually and undeniably true. In reality, it's some arbitrary rules some guys made hundreds of years ago. The very law that stand behind is a 2nd change.

A change specifically meant to prevent future generations from heavy-handed, European style gun control.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

smoliske posted...

The Supreme Court ruled that the rights of the second amendment are not unlimited. District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

It also ruled gun bans are unconstitutional, as is any gun control measure that makes defense of the home more difficult.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Dark_SilverX posted...

Get it when Smash comes out. There is nothing worth playing on it right now.

lmao
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Paragon21XX posted...

iClockwork posted...

MuayThai85 posted...

f you're highly functioning autistic person who can pass a psych evaluation, then sure you should be able to own a gun. If you're someone like Adam Lanza, then obviously you shouldn't be able to.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights

Any right can be revoked as long as due process procedures are followed. Stuff like being on the no-fly list or a having diagnosis of any kind of mental illness being used to ban gun purchases without the opportunity to appear before a court to challenge the impending abridgment of their rights are unconstitutional as it skips the judicial due process mandated by the 14th amendment entirely.

If it can be revoked, it isn't a right.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Darksaber310 posted...

I've seen the word "stricter" used countless times. No one ever defines it. What's lax as it stands? I've had a week and more long wait for every firearm I've ever bought, from a .22 plinker to my Nagant. Federal background checks aren't exactly fast, but they're plenty thorough.

Add mental health into it? So you want to stigmatize people even more in this country? How many more incidences will be caused by people not wanting to tarnish their name, so they just don't talk to a mental health professional?

Put everyone on an antidepressant on a list? Sure sounds like that no fly list's unconstitutional nature. Who adds people to this list? Who removes them? Who bears the burden of cost when all of this invariably goes belly-up and there's lawsuits because thanks to HIPA laws you are already violating?

All of this ridiculous over production. We could patch our current system just fine. Apply more money so our ridiculously overburdened court system can keep up with the criminal database and for the FBI so they can respond to developing situations as opposed to reacting to them?

All of this.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

josifrees posted...

Even with current rights gun control as it is, it is completely unconstitutional as the 2nd amendment states that it must be well regulated while it is currently poorly regulated.

Also you cant be my slave they amended the constitution to prevent me from having the right to me owning slaves

No, it doesn't say gun rights must be regulated.

Look up what a 'well-regulated militia' was in the late 1700s. Hint - it's a well-armed populace.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

josifrees posted...

Also rights in a free country where the constitution is able to be legislated and amended are quite fluid. Its only a right because of an amendment the same way it could pretty quickly not be a right with another amendment.

Lrn2legislastion

lol
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

chollima posted...

notice how when the red line is long the yellow line is short

'...has been normalized for comparison.'

How so?

Also, is this all gun deaths, or mass shootings?
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Squall28 posted...

I don't believe gun ownership is a "right."

Except it literally is. That's why it's outlined in the Bill of Rights.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Genocet_10-325 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Then they should support Trump's immigration plan.

Building a useless wall with taxpayer money and making it even harder to immigrate here legally isn't the answer.

>says he doesn't want 'just anyone to come in'
>hates changes to immigration policy that would actually keep 'just anyone' from coming in
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Then they should support Trump's immigration plan.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

cjsdowg posted...

That is a lot of effort to say F--- you to the man over something so small.

Property rights aren't a small thing.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

You literally aren't a woman, either.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

ASithLord7 posted...

Almost identical
*proceeds to list every way its worse*

Lol ok then. Yeah 4k and 900 are totes the same

You missed how it's got a smoother framerate, faster load times, and is portable.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Punctus_Pilot posted...

Tony is correct that there should be some check to the Avengers.

Cap is correct the the UN absolutely should not be that check.

The UN controlling the Avengers is even worse than nobody controlling the Avengers.

That wasn't Cap's argument. You are correct in your analysis, but his argument was that nobody should be a check against them.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Tmaster148 posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Malcrasternus posted...

Wow, it sure got stupid in this topic.

I was interested in hearing what exactly entails as "tougher, better background checks," but no one is explaining what that means.

Almost everyone is just flinging baby-tier logical fallacies at each other, like in every other gun "debate" on this site.

That's because none of the people talking here other than me are alt-center

Do we really need an "alt-" for every ideology now?

Also @Malcrasternus The issue comes from the fact states are free to do whatever they want for for gun control which leads to some states being fast more lax than others. The best place to start would be to invoke a federal mandatory min requirements that is above what some states are currently doing. Like for example some states don't impose waiting periods which would be easy to federally mandate.

Already had one. Had no effect on crime.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

I wonder why CElibs are all Team Cap, when Cap is clearly Libertarian.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

CircleOfManias posted...

SomeonesAlt posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

Voter ID laws are used to suppress low income voters, and have been proven to do so.

How about if IDs were provided free of charge with proof of citizenship?

Isn't it interesting how the pro-voter ID people are, without exception, vehemently against this?

I have never seen anyone argue against this.

At the very least, I am pro-voter-ID, and for such a policy, so you're wrong by technicality.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

TheVipaGTS posted...

Typhon posted...

TheVipaGTS posted...

Foppe posted...

Whats cheaper and easier to get, an ID or a gun?

Consider that for many people the easiest way to get an ID is to take a day off of work and spend the afternoon at the DMV. Forget the fact that they'd be missing a pay check to do that...for many families that 25-35 dollars for an ID might be better prioritized on food for the week, or put towards a rent payment.

Its easy for me to get an ID. I'm fortunately in a position where if i did have to miss a days pay and had to pay 30 bucks for a card I wouldn't be hurt by it. Unfortunately for many people in this country that isn't the case at all.

How did they get a job without an ID? How do they cash a paycheck without ID? How did they rent a home with no ID?

Not all jobs require ID. Your social or any other verification works. IDs expire. You can get a job with a valid ID and just not renew it. People can pay rent and not be on a lease. Families will often pool money for rent while the lease is just in the fathers name for example. And thats just one example. What kind of questions are these?

Plenty of people dont have IDs. Its not a requirement for anything. If were going to make it one we have to make it easier to obtain one.

It's required to buy alcohol, tobacco, firearms, fireworks, buy a car, drive, get a checking account, get a home loan, get auto insurance, and a million other things.

There is no meaningful way to argue that you can legitimately adult without a state-issued ID in America.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

FLUFFYGERM posted...

darkjedilink posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Or maybe when the 1994 Assault Weapons ban expired in 2004 and people saw that it didn't really make a difference he changed his mind.

Shhhhhhhh

I wonder if TC even knew we once had a ban that lasted ten years.

I wonder if ANY liberal knows that a whole bunch of school shootings happened under it, too.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Conflict posted...

ToonLinkWithGun posted...

Innocent people will still be killed. If you really want to lower the gun death rate just start bombing the cities.

What a braindead approach lol. Like you literally know there's a solution that could help lower these incidents but you're so attached to your precious guns. Pathetic

Without rewriting the Constitution and a military force disarming the population, what solution is there?
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Or maybe when the 1994 Assault Weapons ban expired in 2004 and people saw that it didn't really make a difference he changed his mind.

Shhhhhhhh
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

MuayThai85 posted...

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Genocet_10-325 posted...

ToonLinkWithGun posted...

First it's mental illness. Then it's just regular citizens. That's the end game of liberals. Don't know why they pretend it's not

Slippery slope fallacy. Wonderful

It's literally the case though. We're not going to give an inch so you can take a mile.

Fucking lol. I'm all for gun ownership but you're insane if you are ok with people who have mental illnesses being able to buy guns. Psych evaluations and stricter background checks are only for the greater good and it's utter horseshit to try and argue against that. You want to be able to own a dozen AR-15's, a couple AK's, dozens of pistols, etc then be my guest but if you're mentally ill you shouldn't be allowed to own those and it's supposed to be the governments job to make sure that people like that don't have access to guns.

So transgendered people don't have a right to self-defense in your eyes? Mental illness is very common among transgendered people...
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

The Great Muta 22 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Anteaterking posted...

Typhon posted...

How did they get a job without an ID? How do they cash a paycheck without ID? How did they rent a home with no ID?

Are you suggesting this doesn't happen?

Usually in poorer neighborhoods there are people willing to provide those services without ID.

It doesn't happen legally.

You're the type that thinks no legal resident would work under the table, aren't you?

Not legally.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen

Anteaterking posted...

Typhon posted...

How did they get a job without an ID? How do they cash a paycheck without ID? How did they rent a home with no ID?

Are you suggesting this doesn't happen?

Usually in poorer neighborhoods there are people willing to provide those services without ID.

It doesn't happen legally.
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'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen