Lurker > Crepes

southcoast09 posted...

I agree with him. They want to enforce universal laws on all nations, they want to monitor and censor our internet. They want to force immigration and label anybody who disagrees a racist.

Yes, they are an enemy.

I dunno man. Think about the different states. They want a model like the US with different member states that have their own laws but also a collective responsibility as well. I doubt you'd be wanting to ban from people travelling between states?
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Sativa_Rose posted...

Look at what happened to Tommy Robinson. He's behind bars now for something that would be protected by the First Amendment in the US.

Then there's all the stories of people getting arrested for saying something offensive on twitter or facebook or something. It's ridiculous. Hundreds of people are being arrested for offensive social media posts.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html

Bomb threats have always been illegal haven't they? Why should it matter if it's on the phone, by email or by twitter?
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tennisdude818 posted...

Court order or not, there ought to be a rule that all men can require a test before dealing with 18 years of baby jail.

I agree with this for what it's worth.

I'm not saying that is a bad source but they recently removed the fact that being on the birth certificate is not enough to prove paternity. It doesn't solve the query of whether a court can force a paternity test or what the current criteria are for establishing paternity.

Also want to take one line in particular:

if he has been named by the mother as the father of her child, he will have to pay child maintenance until DNA testing proves otherwise

This doesn't seem fair. I'd be interested in finding something confirming this is the case.
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luigi13579 posted...

Crepes posted...

I'm happy to debate you on each and every one of those points once you provide a respectable source for each one.

I can make a start (on whether the UK is the worst in the first-world).

1. Knife crime is an issue (a very specific one), but if you look the murder rate and violent crime generally, the UK has nothing on the US.
2. Can't argue with that.
3. Technically true, but it's never been used since 1707. It's effectively useless.
4. The House of Commons has supremacy over the House of Lords in legislative matters.
5. The US doesn't even have UHC, so the UK can't really be worse in this regard (your assumption seems to be that UHC is desirable, which I agree with). I'm not going to downplay the Tory attempts to privatize it through the back door. Fuck them.
6. It's not as if this is purely a negative thing, plus it's supported by the public, who obviously think it's worth having (no, this isn't the same as the public supporting genocide, for example, which is clearly bad). Sporting rifles and shotguns (e.g. for farmers) are allowed with a license. Our gun crime rate is tiny (not necessarily because of gun control admittedly, but it seems sensible to assume it has some effect), especially in comparison to the US's.
7. Yeah, there is an issue with going after people posting on social media (although how many have actually been jailed for their opinions I'm not sure). Tommy Robinson's situation is completely different (and justified) though: https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/05/25/what-has-happened-to-poor-tommy-robinson/ As for "literal thought crime", we don't have that. I'm being pedantic there with your use of "literal" to be fair.
8. Source? I remember there being something like this in the Labour party (something to do with all women-shortlists), but not an actual government agency. Maybe on a gender equality committee or something. Even so, I'm not sure it's the dystopian nightmare it's being made out as. I can see the downsides, absolutely.
9. Is this terrorism laws you're talking about? Or detention of migrants? Either way, I agree it's an issue, although the US does similar or worse.
10. Yeah, this is definitely an issue (Snoopers' Charter, Digital Economy, etc.). The Tories (and Labour really) don't have a clue about technology.
11. Some hardline Brexiters want this, but they're a minority in government, thankfully. If it comes to pass, then you can hold it over us. Also, the UK was instrumental in drafting these rights, which is why I find it funny when Brexiters argue that we can have our own, better Great British rights (as if)!

I agree with many of these as a point of principle (e.g. I'm against the monarchy and HoL), but in practice, they aren't all as insidious as you say (or unique to the UK in the first world). I'm not saying we shouldn't care, just that we should put things in perspective (for *some* of the above, not the ones I admitted were a problem).

Then one could make a similar list for the US and other countries. For example, I'd say having the largest prison population per capita is more of an issue than almost anything in the UK.

So, I disagree with the UK being the most dystopian first-world country (although we are up there admittedly). We have our issues, like all (first-world) countries.

Yeah as a Brit I agree with most of those. Be interesting in see what @UnfairRepresent has to say on those points.
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nemu posted...

Dystopian is a bit farfetched, but it does have major issues on free speech going on. That someone would get arrested for a joke/posting "offensive" lyrics while everyone is hush-hush on crimes committed by people of certain backgrounds because it would just be offensive is a bit scary.

Can someone give me some examples of this?
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I think I've responded to everything backed up by sources. I'm sorry to hear that @UnfairRepresent doesn't want to actually engage in an adult debate. I'm here all day buddy.
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gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Crepes posted...

gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Crepes posted...

Is it some kind of meme that got out of hand? I live in the UK and its funny because 99% of what US people think about the UK is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.

Ask me anything.

Everything here is a meme. 99% of what US people think about the US is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.

So mostly just posted to get a reaction? Do the people actually believe what they are saying or is it 100% people on the wind up.

I think some people actually believe their filth and that's becoming the scary part. I mean, there's people that think the south here is nothing but fat racist white people. And people that think racist people can only be in the south. There's people that see white and black and then automatically assume racism no matter what.

It's a silly country here. There's plenty more examples but race seems to be the big hit here.

I think it's fair to say you get people like that in all countries. Brexit bought out the worst of people in the UK as well and seems like it's given some people a mandate that it's ok to be openly racist.
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Touchdown Boy posted...

ROBANN_88 posted...

Whatever happened with that giant child sex abuse "grooming circle" thing?

Is that finished and dealt with, or is it still ongoing?

This is what happened to a big chunk of it.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-abuse-nick/man-behind-uk-vip-child-sex-claims-charged-with-perverting-justice-idUKKBN1JT1SB

Thanks. That's pretty fucked up. Hopefully they get to the bottom of this.
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Esrac posted...

f*** that.

I think I'd rather go to prison that go through all that to pay child support for a kid that was proven to not be mine.

I fucked up. That was about something in the US. God knows why that popped up on google despite me specifying the UK.
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tennisdude818 posted...

Part of the perception is that the government is too feminist. I'll borrow one of my posts from another topic, and you can tell me if I'm missing something.

So if I understand the below correctly, a woman in the UK can lie about whether or not a child actually belongs to a particular man in order to get his wallet on the hook. The man can't get a paternity test without the woman's consent. Am I missing something? Because that sounds pretty fucked up and gynocentric to me.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1394653/Move-to-outlaw-secret-DNA-testing-by-fathers.html

Fathers who conduct secret paternity tests on their children will face prosecution under new laws to be proposed by a Government watchdog.

The Human Genetics Commission will recommend in a report to ministers that the theft of a person's DNA, including the clandestine removal of a child's hair or saliva, should become a criminal offence.

The proposal has come out of fears that increasing numbers of fathers are exploiting the growth of internet DNA testing services to undertake paternity checks without the consent of the child or its mother, with potentially traumatic consequences for all involved.

The law would also prevent private detectives, journalists, employers and others from gaining access to genetic information without the individual's consent, or using DNA left behind by an individual to check for diseases, genetic conditions or unknown relatives.

Earlier this week, the television producer Steve Bing - who Elizabeth Hurley, the actress, says is the father of her baby son Damian - was named in court papers as the father of a young girl caught up in the world's most expensive child support case.

And I don't think this gynocentric mindset is unrelated to people getting in legal trouble for criticizing Islam when you consider Intersectional Feminism.

That article is from 2002 and was about something they were looking at doing. I don't agree with that by the way. I think if women want to get money for their kids from the man they need to prove the kid is the actually by the man. That being said that article is from 2002 and I can't find anything to suggest any law was ever changed. Maybe the house of lords blocked is hehehe. My understanding is that a court can enforce a dna test and I can't see any articles to suggest this has changed. I have googled. Best I came up with was this one: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3010327/I-went-without-electricity-days-didn-t-eat-Fury-man-forced-pay-child-support-13-years-girl-s-never-met-despite-DNA-test-proving-s-not-his.html

EDIT: thats about the US. I can't find one for the UK. Forums I've read seem to suggest a court can enforce a test.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

You're esstentially going "Hey it's not so bad!" which ironically is moving the goalposts like a hypocrite.

Your argument was that the house of lords can stop laws being passed. I made my argument that the house of lords being able to vet new bills is a positive and adds some checks and balances to stop the house of commons from being able to unilaterally pass laws. I also mentions they can't indefinitely stop a law being passed. You got a response to this or not?

I already said I'll happily argue your other points once you provide some sources. I'm here all day if you want to continue the discussion.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

ROBANN_88 posted...

Is that odd?
Based on the previous sentence i got the impression you were saying that you can't do that in Germany

Try eating a ham sandwich in Saudi Arabia

Or a beef burger in India.

Or dog and cat in the US!
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Already preparing damage control.

Says it all right there.

Not at all. I just want to know what we're arguing before I get involved.

I've responded to your house of lords criticism in the post about. Feel free to come back to me and counter my points.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Crepes posted...

I'm happy to debate you on each and every one of those points once you provide a respectable source for each one.

Oh come on, you live in the UK and see the same news I do for the past 20 years. I'm not going to find and post sources for each one. That's a lazy evasion and you know it.

I mean christ if you do a google search right now you'll see a top story about there being 1,296 stabbings in London in the first 4 months of 2018.

And I don't even know WTF you mean when you say you want a "source" on the House of Lords... so here's a wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords

EDIT: Where did you live when you came to the UK and how long were you here for?

I travel a lot so I've been to a few places London, Bedford, Plymouth, Leeds, High Wycombe.

Longest was when I lived in Uxbridge for a couple of years and worked at the Daily Telegraph routinely seeing these stories you claim don't exist.

I'm just asking for you to back up your claims. That's all. Sorry if you won't or can't do so. I refuse to get into a debate with you based on anything other than facts so you can't move the goal posts like you usually do. If you don't want an adult debate that's fine with me. I'll be here all day if you change your mind.

EDIT: The house of lords are meant to be a checks and balances type of thing. Generally they will either pass a law or return it with some amendments for the house of commons to sign off. I can't think of many occasions where the house of lords have outright refused a law but I'm sure there are probably some.

Mechanisms are in place so that if the government want to pass something they can force it through. This is to stop the same bill ping ponging between the house of commons and the house of lords indefinitely. If the same bill is passed three times in the house of commons then it bypasses the house of lords on the third attempt so like I said they can't indefinitely block something.
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gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Crepes posted...

Is it some kind of meme that got out of hand? I live in the UK and its funny because 99% of what US people think about the UK is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.

Ask me anything.

Everything here is a meme. 99% of what US people think about the US is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.

So mostly just posted to get a reaction? Do the people actually believe what they are saying or is it 100% people on the wind up.
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0TiamaT0 posted...

Crepes posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

I dont know about dystopian, but your countrys willingness to arrest people over Facebook posts they disagree with is pretty fucked up...

I don't think this is as wide spread as the media in the US claim it is.

It doesnt have to be. The fact that it happens at all is enough.

Your country has bigger problems than worrying about the guy that doesnt like islam or the teenage girl posting rap lyrics.

I don't feel like posting hate speech on the internet or inciting terrorism is something that should be tolerated.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I've lived in the UK.

It is the most distopian first world country in the world.

Leader in the world in knife crime.
Has over 35% of the world's security cameras. If you are on a British Street (inside a town or city) you are more likely to being recorded than not being recorded.
Literal Monarchy with veto powers.
Literal House of Lords that can overrule democratic government decisions and does so regularly.
Universial Healthcare that is being sold off and privatized to pocket the rich while the poor suffer.
Strong gun control.
Strong language control and literal thought crime where you can arrested or fined for the wrong opinions or statements.
Can be arrested and held for over 30 days without cause, charge or ability to contact anyone outside of your confinment.
Strict (and increasing) internet censorship and controls.
Giving up on the accepted European Rights to make up their own Rights which are the same except don't value privacy

Yeah there's some freedoms. It's not like Germany where you can be arrested for holocaust denial. And you can go into a store and buy a cheese sandwich or a ham one. But those don't add up to the rest of the western world as a whole.

Sure you might be happy and enjoy your life, a lot of people in the UK do. I did too. But don't mistake your own happy experience as evidence of the entire nation being pristine. That's literally part of a distopian society. That's like the Inner-party in 1984 musing on blowing up the plebs

I'm happy to debate you on each and every one of those points once you provide a respectable source for each one.

EDIT: Where did you live when you came to the UK and how long were you here for?
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0TiamaT0 posted...

I dont know about dystopian, but your countrys willingness to arrest people over Facebook posts they disagree with is pretty fucked up...

I don't think this is as wide spread as the media in the US claim it is.
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Is it some kind of meme that got out of hand? I live in the UK and its funny because 99% of what US people think about the UK is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.

Ask me anything.
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Garioshi posted...

PikachuMaxwell posted...

Atheletes and celebrities entertain people.

Farmers feed people. Doctors save people. Teachers teach people.

Supply and demand. There are loads of teachers / doctors out there. Not many people as good as lebron
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Who wants marble in the bathroom? Gets sloppy when wet.
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Games industry is very fickle these days. I dont think well see any games released again that will stand the test of time in the same way ocarina if time did. I think its partly a question of quantity and how as soon as one big aaa game is out the next one is being forced down your throat so you dont have the time to reflect.
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thelastgooduser posted...

And then we've got the TC gleefully posting this shit like he enjoys it.

@thelastgooduser

I seem to recall teppic threatening to call social services over your perceived treatment of your own daughter. Did anything ever come if that?
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As others have said. Some lore is there in the data logs. Take it or leave it if you want to invest in the story or not.
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Cause thats what the guys who made clicker heroes 2 are asking.

https://www.clickerheroes2.com/

At first thought it seems mad to pay 30 quid for such a game but then I think backbit some of the idle games on my phone and Ive stuck like 100 hours into games like egginc and almost a hero and probably more than 30 quid on IAP sonactually maybe it isnt such a bad deal. What you reckon?

Anyone here bought and IAP in any mobile games?
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Do you think people would look back to the end of the 2010's and say:

"the warning signs were there, why didn't they so anything?".
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Everything Ive heard about her makes me hate her. This was a pure pr move and written by someone else.
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Was what bought me here originally.

http://web.archive.org/web/19961114192414/http://segasages.com/
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Final fantasy 7 and resident evil Gaiden.
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What is a bond? Does she get that money back?
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Slip-N-Slide posted...

YellowSUV posted...

LinksLiege posted...

Isn't there also some convoluted-as-fuck theory that the Matrix series (or at least the first one) is a huge parallel to being trans somehow?

I vaguely recall something about that.

Yeah I like this.
I wouldn't doubt it. If someone can make up that Jar Jar Binks was intended to be a Sith Lord originally, I can see someone making a convoluted theory for the Matrix.

The biggest theory I've heard for The Matrix is that Agent Smith is actually The One instead of Neo.

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Lol America. Every day gets closer to some sort of dytipian future.
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You betcha.
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Zikten posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

They did not say "do not go into this cave"

how do you know what these signs in Thailand written in Thai said?

How do you?
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People make mistakes man.
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southcoast09 posted...

Did hey use Elon Musks submarine thing?

RIP to the hero who died trying to save them

Wtf.
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Fucking hell some people will troll over anything. I dont get why hes not been ostracised yet.
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Great news.
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Looking for something similar in tone and style?
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D

Im in the UK. It starts at 1AM and I have work tomorrow.
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Antifar posted...

The story is on the front page of BBC.com
https://imgur.com/lz2TBic
And The Guardian
https://imgur.com/fjzb8kL
And The Telegraph
https://imgur.com/2NcjUEM

Im looking at the UK version. Its all football and brexit related here.
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Not a fan. Ill probably get it at some point when its cheap and never play it.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44760875

Not even on the front page of the BBC. No announcement from the government. Russia can now literally do what the fuck they want.
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Webmaster4531 posted...

Devils advocate here. This video is aimed at hipster overprotective mothers but it makes some relevant points.

The sort of stuff the money makers love to muddy the waters enough to cause enough doubt to make their plans go unopposed.
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TheVipaGTS posted...

Fuck, i can't even fathom being trapped in an area like that for this long...

Rather there than CE tbh.
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They beat thanos then use the stones to sort stuff out. But goes one step further like they use the time stone to send cap back In Time to be with his girlfriend and another to make vision while and another to make hulk and Bruce separate people. I dont remember the other but could see it happening.
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Bloodychess posted...

Expected from Trump

Disappointed some EU country didnt step in to sponsor

I think Russia did.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/health/world-health-breastfeeding-ecuador-trump.html

American officials sought to water down the resolution by removing language that called on governments to protect, promote and support breast-feeding and another passage that called on policymakers to restrict the promotion of food products that many experts say can have deleterious effects on young children.

When that failed, they turned to threats,

The Americans were blunt: If Ecuador refused to drop the resolution, Washington would unleash punishing trade measures and withdraw crucial military aid. The Ecuadorean government quickly acquiesced.

Health advocates scrambled to find another sponsor for the resolution, but at least a dozen countries, most of them poor nations in Africa and Latin America, backed off, citing fears of retaliation, according to officials from Uruguay, Mexico and the United States. What happened was tantamount to blackmail, with the U.S. holding the world hostage and trying to overturn nearly 40 years of consensus on best way to protect infant and young child health, she said.

How the fuck can the US be against breast feeding? And to the extent of threatening other countries to stop promoting it.
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Funkydog posted...

Lol, Izual calling someone a troll.

You don't agree?
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Also reported the rain they feared is now coming down so it's a race against time getting the rest out.
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