Lurker > Giggsalot

transcience posted...

hey there giggs! I was ever so slightly peeved when you didnt tag me for your end of year lists the other day!

not sure if I totally believe this, but I think the hardest trinket might be the one where you have to go several rooms without touching a save point. that one is super interesting and its one of the only challenges that actually has more than a few movements to it in the game.

anyway, looks like a bunch of lists have popped up over the last few days so I better get this thing finished!

hahaha my deepest apologies! I'm conscious of trying to not annoy people who don't care about my lists, so I tried to only tag people who usually respond (like, comment, etc). I guess you hadn't for a while, it's absolutely nothing personal!

also I'm with Blur (hey man!), I was surprised to see braid so low. I probably just don't play enough games, but I'm not sure I've ever played a puzzler that felt as cleverly constructed as that one. recommendations welcome!

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been reading this from the start, has been lots of fun. excellent work as always! I'm always struck when I read your lists that we seem to have very similar tastes, but I doubt I've played more than a quarter of these. definitely gives me a nice list of stuff to eventually check out! (says the guy who plays about one new game a year)

[update: just checked and, ignoring FF and PW games, i have played a grand total of six of these so far. ha.]

VVVVVV isn't a game that immediately comes to mind when I consider my all-time favourites but it's on the very short list of games that I quite frequently want to just boot up and play these days, which probably says a lot. it's pretty close to flawless at what it does.

also, maybe I just don't think of "challenge" in the same way as most people, but I don't consider Doing Things the Hard Way (Veni Vidi Vici) to be that tough. sure, I'll die 50-100 times trying it every playthrough, but it's persistence that eventually gets me through, not skill. if you pushed me for a really hot take I might even claim the Edge Games trinket is harder from a skill perspective!

p. s. props on the numbered final fantasy rankings - ignoring your endearing love affair for the original, I definitely didn't expect X to be top tier for you alongside VI and IX, but over time those are the three that stand out the most to me too.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

sephy, thoughts on b.o.b presents: the adventures of bobby ray?

dunno if it deserves to be on a best of list like this but i remember the iconsience people making quite a big deal out of it when it came out.

Really? I don't remember anyone on this board or otherwise caring for that album, then or now! It's about as average as a "vaguely talented rapper goes pop" album could possibly be, and since B.O.B. sunk into utter irrelevance not long after there's no legacy there either.

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I don't think they have any real way of measuring that here. I haven't seen any projections used as talking points either.

This gives a pretty balanced perspective on turnout: https://www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/articles/Labour's-car-crash-result-by-age-group

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Seat projections are always tough, and the electoral outcome was towards the reasonable best case scenario for the Tories, but in terms of vote share the UK polls were essentially spot on this time around. They consistently showed a Tory majority, and anything else was wishful thinking really. From a leftist perspective this was a hugely disappointing result, but anyone who is surprised wasn't paying attention.

I also don't get Tony's references to this being a "low turnout" election: turnout was 67%, just 1% lower than the record high turnout from last time. Not one British news source is mentioning the turnout as a significant factor in the results either. Would Labour have done better if every young person had voted? Of course. But that never happens, so it's a total fantasy projection.

(It's also factually wrong to say they would've won every seat, even in that scenario - the SNP would still have crushed them in Scotland, and they don't even stand in NI.)

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internet folks getting mad about the pronunciation of real-life names not matching their headcanon (zidane, cecil, etc) is always classic

there's probably someone out there pissed off at the pronunciation of zack fair

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i think i'm just about the only person who instinctively read it as Tee-dus from the very beginning

this whole debate is a bit headscratching for me really

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

You know what's wild? When I started conceptualizing this list, my brain was convinced Untrue came out in 2011 and the early part of the decade was owned by Burial. But then I realized how long ago it really was. I can't believe how unproductive he's been for 10 years.

Anyway, Giggs it sounds like I need to listen to more Future. Got any good individual songs of his to whet my appetite?

I don't think he's been unproductive at all, he's just put out EPs and singles rather than albums. With his Kindred, Rough Sleeper and Rival Dealer EPs, you could easily make the case that he did rule the early part of the decade! He has a decade-spanning compilation coming out next week (Tunes 2011-2019) - if you've neglected his stuff this decade that's essential listening.

And oh man! Future probably isn't someone you'll love unless you can appreciate the trap style, but he's actually super versatile within that and has so much good stuff this decade. Most people would tell you his best projects are DS2 and Monster, but his 2014-15 period was this decade's closest equivalent to Wayne's insane 2006-07 run, and he has great stuff littered throughout his discog.

If I was going to make a starter playlist that summarizes his various styles it might look something like this:

March Madness
Codeine Crazy
Turn on the Lights
Just Like Bruddas
I Serve the Base
Mask Off
Fly Shit Only
Hardly
Coming Out Strong
Benz Friendz

If none of those appeal to you then I think you can safely move on!

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whoa i missed a lot in this topic. here's some scattered thoughts!

• TLOP and KSG are both great and writing that down makes me think that I under-rated Kanye's decade slightly. I'd take his 2010s over his 2000s, I think!
• the lack of mainstream rock bands this decade is admittedly pretty unprecedented but I really don't worry about it. maybe it's just my nerdiness, but when I think about massively influential bands my mind goes first to stuff like the velvet underground and joy division, neither of whom were commercially successful in their time at all really. there are as many inspirational bands like that around now as ever, and I think enough people are hearing them to safeguard the future of rock and roll or whatever.
• everything everything are ridiculously fun and creative and absolutely one of those bands - check them out for sure. since foals decided they'd rather be U2 they've taken up their mantle and sprinted away from every other semi-mainstream british indie band
• not gonna massively argue with Ivy or MBDTF, neither are my picks but both are great and feel representative enough.

Nelson_Mandela posted...

@Giggsalot tell me what albums and songs I'm sleeping on

christ, where to start? I have no idea how to even begin to summarize a decade of music! if you narrow me down on genre or something, maybe I can begin to talk more precisely.

that said, here's a quickly thrown together list of albums I utterly adore. (I made it just long enough to sneak a bona fide indie rock record on there!)

1. nicolas jaar - nymphs
2. a winged victory for the sullen - s/t
3. gris - a l'ame enflamee, a l'ame constellee
4. mark kozelek and jimmy lavalle - perils from the sea
5. matana roberts - coin coin chapter one: gens de couleur libres
6. burial - kindred
7. mutual benefit - love's crushing diamond
8. danny brown - xxx
9. swans - the seer
10. kanye west - my beautiful dark twisted fantasy
11. kendrick lamar - good kid maad city
12. flying lotus - cosmogramma
13. lorde - melodrama
14. rome - der aesthetik der mannschaftsfreiheit
15. lana del rey - norman fucking rockwell
16. earl sweatshirt - some rap songs
17. mount eerie - a crow looked at me
18. the weeknd - trilogy
19. tropical fuck storm - a laughing death in meatspace
20. spectral lore - iii
21. agalloch - marrow of the spirit
22. algiers - algiers
23. young thug - jeffrey
24. vince staples - summertime '06
25. hop along - painted shut

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I think the work of Kendrick and Frank defines the decade better than Kanye's, but that's a pretty reasonable list. Assuming a mainstream focus I would probably replace LCD with Lana del Rey and/or Lorde (indie rock has had almost zero cultural significance this decade) and you probably need a trap rapper of some kind in there too - Future or Young Thug would be the most obvious choices.

If you blow this out to all genres and styles and ignore mainstream considerations that totally changes everything, but that also becomes a much longer post. Maybe later!

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i'd say his music is hip hop (at least his first two albums). it's just modern trap/R&B-inspired hip hop. a lot of mainstream hip hop sounds like his stuff now.

for someone who attacks sephy and me for "not being dialled in to the contemporary hip hop landscape," you seem to have a surprisingly conservative view of what hip hop is. right now, you're kinda sounding like the people who went "LOL THAT'S NOT JAZZ" when miles went electric back in the day.

I wasn't trying to attack anyone, sorry!

And I dunno, I actually don't dislike Post but for me what he's doing is as close to some bland pop like Maroon 5 as it is to Travis Scott or Young Thug.

P. S. Those guys might have had a point! I prefer electric Miles overall but On the Corner is basically a funk record and Jack Johnson always felt like blown out blues rock to me.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Giggs would it be fair for me to say that I just don't like the general sound that the plurality of music artists are taking in the 2010s?

I am totally with you that it's annoying when 30-somethings try to say that "music sucks now." But I look at the album/song of the decade lists in publications vis-a-vis the same lists from the 90s and 00s, and I just can't bring myself to say that they're equal.

FWIW I feel the same way about the 1970s (generally).

I'm sure you can always pull out exceptions but, hey, this is a topic where I am supposed to be making sweeping generalizations!

Of course! All of this is subjective anyway, and I'm not a huge fan of the prevailing popular music trends of the decade either.

I do think everything's so crazily accessible these days that it's a slight irrelevence - you can almost always find what you want in 2019 somewhere - but I was never trying to stand here and say anyone's personal tastes were invalid.

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There's no early 90's equivalent to Post because there was no sing-rap monogenre back then. It's a new sound.

But Post is barely a rapper and his music is pop first, R&B second and hip-hop a distant third. To hold him up as emblematic of modern rap is mad, and the only good comparison across eras can be to someone who was similarly outside of respective rap circles back then like the guys I mentioned.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

You make a fair point. But I suppose my thesis really applies mostly to the artists that were so fundamental to the 2000s--the producers (particularly hip-hop producers). I can't prove this objectively, but 15 years ago you had the smartest music minds in the industry (imo) working behind the scenes with artists to produce really cohesive sounding LPs. But now due to streaming, the money is in these one-off hits. So you have these ultra-talented producers making radio songs instead of crafting more comprehensive records. I blame Pharrell Williams.

I'd argue producers are more influential than ever in hip-hop in the trap era. People like Metro Boomin, Pierre Bourne and Kenny Beats are making sonically cohesive collaborative projects with rappers where the producers are the main draw. That never happened before this decade. Without being an asshole, it doesn't really sound like you guys are dialled in to the contemporary hip-hop landscape.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i don't think hip hop is as album-based now as it used to be. post malone's albums (to name one of the biggest modern hip hop stars) sound way more like "playlists" (like drake's more life) than albums. there's absolutely no reason why track #1 is #1, #2 is #2, etc.

edit: and i get that you said "under the mainstream surface" but uh... mainstream hip hop is also a part of hip hop. like, back in the day a tribe called quest was mainstream and their music was very album-based. you can't just say "oh mainstream hip hop doesn't count."

You need to compare like with like here, comparing ATCQ and Post is silly.

Kendrick, J. Cole, Future, and many other hugely popular rappers now are also heavily album- (or project-) oriented artists like Quest were.

If you're gonna go back to the early 90s, Post Malone is analogous to the likes of Vanilla Ice or Kriss Kross - and no one remembers their albums either.

Nothing has changed.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

I think much of this is due to the decreased emphasis on albums due to streaming. But we shall discuss.

I've heard this a lot and find it weird. genuine question: what genres that were album-based are less so now? pop music has almost never been an album-based genre, and under the mainstream surface there are as many album-crafting auteurs in rock/hip-hop/jazz/etc as ever.

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I could see that, especially when it comes to attributing "masterpiece" status. the most obvious caveat to everything i said is just subjectivity, and i've seen countless studies showing that most people treasure most the music they discovered in adolescence / early adulthood. I think i'm an outlier here, but I still find it difficult to shift my perceptions of my all-time favourites these days, even if I rarely reach for some of those albums.

that said, I've never failed to find at least one or two new "masterpieces" in any given year (this year i have 4!). I think i might have a little internal crisis if I did!


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i mean i'm obviously going to say this but this decade was incredible for music. every modern decade is, too - more music is being created and made accessible now than ever and it's wild to me that anyone could think that quality levels don't essentially balance out over a ten year period

i feel like the only valid grounds for disagreeing with that are narrow tastes (decades can absolutely be bad for certain genres). in most cases it's just rooted in unwillingness/ignorance as to how to really find the good stuff, or generally waning interest in discovering new music as happens with age to most people

in principle I'd argue the same for film, literature, etc too, though admittedly i don't follow either obsessively enough to be confident in that assertion

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

That takes care of TV

Honorable mention goes to the original "Serial" podcast, which was more riveting and entertaining than any TV documentary in an age where that genre absolutely exploded

A "best podcasts" section of this topic would actually be super appropriate and interesting to read!

Also, in the dark is basically the wire of true crime podcasts, that shit is incredible (and quite a bit better than serial IMO)

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I'm definitely with Seph on this, season 5 of breaking bad in general left a slightly sour taste in my mouth. the premise is wonderful but the characterisation feels flat to me - lydia is never interesting, the nazis feel like ludicrous cardboard villains after gus, and I find walter's a much more compelling character in earlier seasons when he's actually wrestling with his decisions and not just embracing his darkness.

there are a lot of great moments in there - the cinematography remains wonderful, the tension throughout is pretty masterful and ozymandias is obviously a landmark episode - but it falls into grotesqueness and action movie silliness a little too much for me

all that said, I never unconditionally adored the show even in what I consider to be its better seasons, so maybe that's not all that meaningful. clearly I'm in the minority anyway!

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I'm not surprised by that call, but mad men > breaking bad forever. i rewatched mad men front to back for the first time this year and was stunned to realise that I'm no longer sure if the wire is my #1 show anymore.

I'd probably argue for mad men in the decade too (I certainly don't agree that it peaked early; seasons 4-5 are my favourites and 7 was incredible too), even though that's a tougher call. BB had more cultural impact and inarguably peaked this decade, and part of me wants to choose something that "belongs" to the decade anyway. but what would that be? game of thrones? hannibal? the leftovers? none of them quite feel right to me. who knows, maybe I haven't yet seen my favourite show of the decade!

p.s. the best breaking bad episode is crawl space, fight me

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oh in that case go right ahead, my apologies

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

For what it's worth, I don't think you can be the athlete of the decade by playing soccer anyway

odd thing to say about the most popular sport in the world!

I'd almost get it if you were judging it by pure physicality, but then you wouldn't be picking LeBron either so idgi

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A few points on the Ronaldo / Messi thing:

i) They're probably the two best soccer players of all time, I absolutely agree with Ex that they both deserve to be on that list.

ii) The idea that either Ronaldo or Messi dominated the other this decade is pretty ludicrous. There are two ways you can look at this - individual achievements, or team achievements. Let's break both down.

Individually, both won 4 Ballon D'Ors this decade. Based on quick wiki maths, Messi has 523 goals in 526 appearances, Ronaldo has 478 in 483. I'm sure there are more stats you could find to weight the argument one way or another, but for me this is almost a total wash.

Team-wise, Ronaldo wins 4-2 on Champions Leagues, Messi wins 7-3 on league titles and 5-2 on domestic cups. You can weight this in favour of European competition if you want, but I call this a wash too.

iii) On Real's Champions Leagues: I know nothing about american sports, but if Seph believes that it is possible to "fluke" a Superbowl win, then Real Madrid "fluked" at least two of those Champions Leagues. They're statistically obviously the best club team of the decade in european competition. But even when they were winning those trophies, did anyone actually think they were the best team in the world? Especially the last two years, they just seemed like an average side who were preternaturally good at (and obsessed with) winning that specific competition. They only won two Spanish leagues in the whole decade, for comparison!

In any case, the Zidane-era Real really don't strike me as a team that anyone will talk much about in decades to come - if you look at the decade as a whole, Guardiola's Barcelona (featuring Messi of course) is easily the defining team in terms of impact on the sport. So I'm not so sure that's an inarguable point in Ronaldo's favour either.

iv) So yeah, I don't really agree with Ex at all there. You can definitely make the case that Ronaldo is a superior athlete, that he's more "clutch", that his moments of brilliance have defined the sporting decade more than Messi's have. But I'd argue that Messi's actually been dragging both Barcelona and Argentina along behind him for years now, with - counterintuitively - comparatively little attention. In the end, choosing one over the other is pretty much entirely subjective, and to act otherwise is pretty silly.

Enjoying the topic so far, despite the fact I can't add much to the US sports discussion at all. Looking forward to music/TV drama chat later!

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Opinion of a dude who barely plays games but played it recently: I liked it a lot! The main appeal for me was the humour, it's funny and quirky and charming in a way that I can only really compare to Earthbound within JRPGs.

The overall concept and story is endearingly unusual too, and while the gameplay isn't something that specifically drew me in, it's also utilized in some really neat and creative ways (that are as you've observed kinda hard to describe in an enticing manner without being spoilery).

Music rules too, best modern chiptune soundtrack i can think of this side of VVVVVV.

So yeah, just give it a shot! Even accounting for two playthroughs it's maybe a ten hour game, and you'll know if the setting/humour works for you in not that much more time than it takes to read this topic.

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Deadwood

(the real answer is probably the wire but come on, 27 posts and no one mentioned it? that's a top three show of all time right there)
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Plainsong or disintegration win here
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in my life or strawberry fields forever or rain probably

i don't think any of those listed would make my top ten!
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Sign of a Storm by Skepticism

hahaha this'll be fun

let's go for a bit of this:


(too kvlt for spotify apparently, sorry)

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i have absolutely no idea why i still come here, i have one active post and it's in the politics topic (god help me)

hello friends!

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Corrik7 posted...

Again. Where is the correlation. 30% of Switzerland have guns. 30% of America has guns.

Why doesn't Switzerland have a proportionate amount of mass shootings and/or gun violence?

You are acting like a guy having 500 guns and a guy having 5 guns matters.

I live in Switzerland. There are a lot of guns around because every man who completes military service is allowed to keep their service weapon.

They are not allowed to keep ammunition.

Guns are everywhere, but bullets are essentially illegal and incredibly highly regulated. To compare gun violence in Switzerland and the US is ignorant and disingenuous at best.

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The Simpsons
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Simpsons
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