Lurker > red sox 777

Also, Trump's campaign was tailored for Hillary. He could afford to be incredibly unpopular because he knew his opponent was even more hated. Trump won a very substantial, probably record-breaking number of votes from people who disapproved of him and thought he was unfit to be president.

As Trump said, if the circumstances were different, his campaign would have been different. If the election was decided by the popular vote he would have campaigned hard in New York, for instance. And we aren't talking cosmetic changes, but changes going back to the beginning of the campaign that would have made him a very different candidate.

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TheRock1525 posted...

And yet Trump is apparently the most unstoppable politician of all time that could never be defeated.

Even though a rather poorly run campaign from an incredibly unpopular candidate would have beaten him had it not been for last minute FBI interference.

He was stoppable in 2016. He was an unproven challenger then. Now he is an incumbent, presiding over a very strong economy.

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Leafeon13N posted...

So the official opinion from the very top of the US government is that it will take a miracle for the coronavirus to dissappear.

I thought it was that we just had to wait until April when it gets hotter.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Bernie won Iowa though

If Iowa wants to district itself into districts, I don't see a problem with that.

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You guys should just switch to FPTP. After South Carolina, we would be at:

Sanders - 10
Biden - 9
Buttigieg - 6
Others - 0

Now wouldn't that be exciting?

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Wow, the market is down over 11% in 4 days.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/svdate/status/1233118406301356033?s=21

I mean, that's true. The Vice President's only official job is to preside over the Senate. But it's not like Mitch needs any help with that.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

No majority is now up to 50% on 538

I think this means that the nominee is officially generic Democrat. Trump has no chance now!

Yes, I hope the DNC does this. Your electors will be pledged to vote for a Democrat. They'll decide which one when the Electoral College meets. Just like the founders intended!

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Yeah, you know what else could have cost Hillary the election, if we are going to call tipping point factors the reason the election was lost? Calling 25% of the country deplorable.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Its not polls exactly, but this is the sort of thing Rock is talking about.

This is Wisconsin.

The thing is it's unfair to attribute that to minor factors like the Comey letter. That is almost certainly going to be people who were leaning Republican finally coming to a decision with the election looming. It's like how evangelicals will tell you they are undecided for months - and then will nearly all vote Republican on election day, no matter what.

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Jakyl25 posted...

It was so inappropriate that Trump fired him for it

Comey handled the whole thing badly but that letter wasn't the big problem. The main problem was that he publicly stated that he would not be charging Hillary with a crime and gave an explanation for it that held no water at all.

In legal parlance, we have negligence, and recklessness. Recklessness is criminal, negligence is not (usually). Careless and negligent are very similar. So Comey invents a new category - extremely careless - and says Hillary did that. It's not charged as a crime because extremely careless is not a legal term. But it suggests to everyone that she is guilty and isn't being charged because of her status as the Democratic nominee.

This is also unfair to Hillary because it deprives her of the opportunity to rebut the allegations against her. If Comey had charged her with recklessness, she would have had an opportunity at trial to rebut those allegations. Then she could be exonerated. By implying that she committed a crime and also refusing to charge her, Comey deprived her of the opportunity to defend herself.

Basically, Comey's 2016 actions were a disaster all around.

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The administration did suggest today that the coronavirus vaccine will only be available for the wealthy.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Mike Pence is going to win 60% of the popular vote in 2024

I don't think this is happening unless we admit Russia as a state.

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Jakyl25 posted...

I forget the timing, but I mean like in the immediate aftermath of the Grab them by the pussy tape and before the Comey letter

Well, if you cherrypick the date of the election to be on the worst possible part of the news cycle for Trump, then I suppose there's some possibility he might have lost. He probably wins by more right after the Bill Clinton/Loretta Lynch meeting on the tarmac!

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Jakyl25 posted...

Not if he still wins the popular vote, especially so if its by more than Hillary

Trump could easily win the popular vote this year, but even if not, I don't think it will matter. The Democratic Party is still going to decide that a Bernie loss means they have to run as far to the center as they can.

I think there's a very significant chance that 2016 proves to be a pivot point election - where if Bernie had won the primary, he would have won the general and won a generation of support based on working class votes. But Hillary won, and so Trump won, and now there will be an irreversible shift to Republicans from working class voters. If Trump wins 2020 and the Dems nominate Hillary 2.0 in 2024, that working class vote may be gone to the Republicans for a generation.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Not gonna lie, part of me sees this election as totally unwinnable, and is sort of hoping for Biden pulls it off so the Dem-Dems get all the blame for blowing it again.

A really bad possibility is Bernie gets McGoverned in the general, just due to the strength of the economy, and the Dems go back to nominating centrists for a generation.

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FFDragon posted...

How... Is that a nightmare scenario?

That's how it should work!

Yeah, Biden should win in that case.

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Warren supporters are the worst. Without them she might actually have a chance!

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Corrik7 posted...

And when he wasn't the front runner they supported him over Hillary. Mostly because he is extremely left on the spectrum so left extremists are likely to follow him more then.

They supported Hillary too. I don't think they preferred Bernie as a group. Individuals sure. But you know, Bernie actually has a message other than hating other people, so he always gets a pass in my book compared to other candidates who don't. But ideally, he should condemn them vocally.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

His front runner status has nothing to do with it, tbh

The Antifa people would support any Democrat.

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Er....that actually might not be enough. He might need to go on to say that not only is his revolution not one of force of arms but it is also not one of social intimidation. Not of shunning, not of judgment, not of division. Condemn Antifa for the fascists they are.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Explain, specifically, what Bernie can and should do that he hasnt already, additionally, what it is about Bernie that attracts this toxic subset?

Bernie attracts it by being the Democratic frontrunner. He should stop it by forcefully saying that his revolution will be a legal, peaceful, democratic one. Not one of force of arms.

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Bernie should disavow Antifa. They are fascists and need to be stopped.

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Nope. It was something about what makes a leader great and will ensure they are loved by their people.

What people hope is that Trump will help to build the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem like Cyrus helped with the 2nd Temple. Both leaders of the most powerful empire on Earth and both friendly to Israel.

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Been reading about the theory that Donald Trump is the reincarnation of Cyrus the Great, King of Persia, King of Kings. Trump even quoted Cyrus on Twitter apparently.

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That's actually why Trump is a terrible boss to work for. He will delegate 99.9% of the work while always reserving the right to intervene at any time and completely change the direction. And he will take all the credit and none of the blame.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I just happened to catch a piece of Trump's Coronavirus press conference on Facebook, and he seemed to get extremely offended by a reporter calling Mike Pence the Coronavirus Czar for some reason.

Because Trump has to be personally in charge of everything. He's not going to outsource final decisionmaking on anything to anyone.

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You see an ad with Obama's voice and image talking about protecting his legacy. And the ad says that it was paid for by the "committee to defend the president." Anyone would think the president being defended was Obama. While in fact it is Trump.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

A pro-Trump PAC is running an ad in SC attacking Biden that literally uses an Obama impersonator, prompting a response from Obama's team:

https://twitter.com/mikememoli/status/1232780675658506244

"The Committee to Defend the President." Brilliant. People seeing that will think the President that committee is defending is Obama!

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

So in order to fully comply with the vision of the founders, Donald Trump should abolish term limits and then voluntarily not run for a third term. To do otherwise would betray Washington.

Yes, he can say in the words of the incorruptible Calvin Coolidge, greatest President of the Union, "I choose not to run."

There are caveats though. George Washington and Calvin Coolidge weren't impeached. They weren't obstructed at every turn by a Democratic Party basing all its decisions on pure hatred. A party that never accepted the election. If Trump decides to keep running and winning until the Democrats accept his movement - I think that would be fair.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

You know its pretty fascinating that Pete grew up with a pretty radical father, is like family with Cornel West, but somehow is railing against the civil rights movement of the 60s to hit Bernie

https://youtu.be/jQlj-9yUyss

Is he railing against the civil rights movement of the 60s or modern copycat acts? There are a lot of people nowadays who want to be radical protesters but have nothing really to protest about.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Uh the reason term limits exist is because George Washington started the two-term thing as an informal tradition and it made Congress so mad when presidents ignored it that they codified it into the constitution

Yeah, the founders saw the term limits as a voluntary thing. Congress of the 1940s decided to make it law.

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We should return to the founders' vision and abolish term limits.

Obama, if you want to run, you'll be welcome to try!

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After 100+ years of efforts and 200 failed bills, Congress has finally passed a bill to make lynching a federal crime, which it is expected that President Trump will sign into law.

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And if Obama doesn't like it, he can sue Pete for copyright infringement. We'll let the courts decide.

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Puh-lease. Obama's primary claim to being a good president was being good at oratory. Pete is allowed to copy him, just like Boris Johnson is allowed to copy Churchill.

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Yeah I'm seeing why LOTM likes Biden so much. He wants a cabal of technocratic "experts" to govern rather than the elected President. And that's what we'll get with Biden, who is no longer able to remember who he worked with in 2015 as opposed to 1990.

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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1232701323587604484?s=21

Trump endorses Pete

If we can't get Bernie, Trump, or Tulsi, or someone who's not running anymore, then I'm fine with Pete as a backup as well.

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Dancedreamer posted...

I'm not sure why Bloomberg didn't just do what Trump did, and run for President as a Republican.

Because he knows he'd lose to Trump.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMc9RBK7QfQ

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Er...open borders is a socialist idea only in the sense of a worldwide socialist revolution.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Yes. Much like guns he has only recently moved to the left on immigration.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/25/21143931/bernie-sanders-immigration-record-explained

(It's not all bad, like apparently he was good with regard to asylum seekers, but he generally bought into the idea that increased immigration hurt American workers).

Open borders is not a socialist idea. Nor is it popular. Highlighting Bernie's opposition to the idea will only strengthen him.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I like him! Who are you referring to? Almost all of the Pete hate I've seen has been from his left.

Hmm. I guess I mean Warren supporters. I don't think there are any Biden or Bloomberg supporters here besides you!

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Yeah, Warren's career has been built on the idea that money in politics (and society) is bad and can be fought by the Democratic Party acting through government. A Bloomberg win here would bring a crushing end to her dreams and leave Trump as the only champion of the working class against the oligarchs. Warren would hate that, it would be the repudiation of her life's work.

I think Bernie would not be shocked - he's known for decades that the Democratic Party does not represent the working class and poor as they say they do.

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Biden sounds seriously teetering into senility. I would be worried that it will actually be him rather than a bunch of advisors running the country.

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scarletspeed7 posted...

McKinsey & Company

He's 38. Young people these days don't have the range of opportunities people used to. You can't make a good living as an auto worker anymore. It's hard to start a business. Sometimes your only way to make a living is to work for some consulting firm. He got out when he got a bit more established financially.

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I don't get why you moderate people hate Pete so much. He's a moderate which you guys should like and he's not going to send me to a labor camp in Alaska for being conservative which I like. What's the problem?

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At this point Bernie could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and he wouldn't lose half his base.

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Actually, if Warren REALLY wants to be president the best strategy is to keep going, divide the progressive vote and get a moderate nominated with max acrimony. Then watch that moderate go down in flames against Trump. Then run in 2024 as the champion of the left with Bernie having retired.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

That didn't work out too well for Chris...!

Okay it would probably work out better for Warren, but Chris Christie's dead eyes staring out from behind Trump at that press conference were basically screaming "I've made a huge mistake"

His "prosecution" of HRC at the convention was the lamest prosecution I've seen. Sounded like he was tired, and didn't believe the charges. If I'm a on jury and the prosecutor sounds like that I'm voting not guilty.

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