Lurker > red sox 777

That label is completely accurate, but it is what Americans want. But maybe it'll work because Bernie has something none of the rest of Trump's critics have - credibility.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Someone will have to explain to me how .1 SDEs means Pete gets 2 more delegates.

It's probably similar to how winning the Presidency by 1 EV and the House and Senate by 1 seat each gives you absolute power, while winning two of them 90/10 and losing the third by one seat/EV gets you nothing.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Also include Joe Jackson. And remove Kennesaw Mountain Landis for abuse of power.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Put them all in the Hall of Fame.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

If we're going to just seize people's wealth, I propose a 95% tax on wealth accumulated from giving speeches to banks, consulting firms, and universities.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Like he's blamed for working for McKinsey out of college? How many of the people complaining about this were okay with Hillary earning more than Pete's annual salary for giving a single speech to similar firms?

And don't say you weren't okay with it but supported Hillary anyway.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

There are people on the left who have gone so far down the rabbit hole of identity politics that it has become their identity. They are why we need Trump. We need to elect Trump or someone similar until the Democratic Party expels these people or at least stops listening to them. And if it can't do that, we need eventually to create a center left splinter off the Republican Party to replace them.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Jaykl, the answer to your question is simple. Middle class people have experience with student loan debt and understand how it works. They have no idea how corporate welfare and bailouts work because they haven't seen it personally.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Corrik7 posted...

Would just make school cost even more.

No, it would make it cost less. It would dis incentivize the profit motive.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Corrik7 posted...

Earning something is a punishment. Lmfao. Fuck the people that actually paid back their loans. You DESERVE it! It should go poof, while those who were responsible just sit there and watch.

Do the right thing. Nothing.
Be irresponsible. Get rewarded.

Literally you have just summed up the middle class argument about welfare and such in seconds. This is what Democrats do not seem to get. When you are propping up others who are being drags at the expense of the middle class, you create animosity.

Surely can't wait to see the tax increases necessary for those who paid back their loans responsibly to pay for those who simply didn't. (And, I mean, why would they even do so at this point anyways).

I can't wait for me who paid back my school loans like 7 years early to get taxed immensely to pay for example my cousins loans which are 120k+ and accumulating with interest for a general biology degree he didn't even finish and continues to accrue because he doesn't even make payments towards it and works under the table to get around the garnishment.

Like, it is a great idea in theory, but it is just another example of welfare that creates animosity with those that actually are responsible. People who go to work every day and bust their asses to support their families and pay their bills, yet are drug down by the welfare.

So, yes, if you are going to do it, you should at least have some small amount that you need to do to earn that generosity to make it not just an enabling act.

"Punishment". "Hey, you might have to make a commitment of some sort to earn this life changing amount of relief we are going to give you that others didn't get an opportunity at because they were responsible and did the right thing.". "Stop Punishing me you villain!".

And, beyond that, college needs major changes also. Colleges should receive major fines that offer degrees that have very little placement unless notifies students of this. They should have to give relative amount of notice what the expected average salary is in such a degree. Any degree offered that has little placement should have disclaimers warning this outright.

They mainly need to lose their non-profit status.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Tax the colleges with an endowment tax, and regular income tax. Distribute the wealth to people 21+ based on age - younger people getting more to reflect the higher cost of college when they attended or had the opportunity to attend.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Wanglicious posted...

and now we shift to yang.
points out that college is just 1/3 of people, less if black, so that's not going to solve the problem. wants to tackle lower tier jobs, shifts to UBI.

topic over.
bloomberg time.

Thank you. Great argument. Not everyone goes to college.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Corrik7 posted...

I mean, CNN is technically correct here and this is like the third time they have posted this fact check. But it is nitpicking what is likely a generalization by Sanders.

But the presentation is misleading. That's more important than whether it's technically correct. Like obviously Bernie is comparing with OECD countries. No one thinks we should make our healthcare more like third world countries.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Yeah, I'll believe Bernie over CNN 100 times out of 100. I'll believe my understanding of what Trump means over CNN and Trump is a known liar!

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Pete won't be able to withstand Trump's attacks.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Everyone except Pence!

Yup, the Electoral College hired him, not Trump.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

And as for Vindman's story about the Soviet Union - in the Soviet Union it was not possible for both sides to walk away from that trial free. Either the president or his accusers would be headed to Siberia (if lucky).

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I don't understand why this is controversial. The president can fire anyone in the executive branch at will. And why would he keep around someone he can't trust?

Yup. If the Democrats don't like it, they should think about the consequences of their actions before doing them.

I applaud Trump for clarifying that the people of the executive branch serve at the pleasure of the President and have no independent legitimacy. In our Republic they cannot because they are not elected.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

LordoftheMorons posted...

They can create some law and order, but throwing force out the window means you can't stop a bunch of stuff. Consider, for example, a thief that's willing to deal with shunning. They can get around not being able to buy stuff or whatever because they can just steal what they need. The arbitration court has no force behind it beyond other people shunning you, so as soon as one decides that they don't care about that as much as the ability to break the society's norms they can do whatever they want.

Yes, I agree it doesn't really work completely without force. But Muffin should be well known for inconsistency by this point.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

yang arguing that Trump shouldn't be prosecuted for criminal offenses after he leaves office is uh

not what I expected

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

yang arguing that Trump shouldn't be prosecuted for criminal offenses after he leaves office is uh

not what I expected

Yang is correct. Allowing political prosecution of the head of state after they leave office is incredibly corrosive to the republic.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

LordoftheMorons posted...

Are they?

I distinctively remember arguing with Muffin when he insisted that arbitration and social shunning would be an acceptable replacement for all state-run penal systems.

State run doesn't equate to law and order. The High Court of Justice, for example, was state run but clearly rebellious and traitorous against the sole source of legitimate authority in England - the King.

More seriously, I think arbitration and social shunning can create law and order? It's sort of how US and UK courts work actually - they've gained their high standing not through deploying armies to enforce their decrees but through hundreds of years of building a reputation for being fair and impartial (if quite obsessed with abstract legal principles over facts on the ground).

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Vote away!

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

LordoftheMorons posted...

I've hear that libertarians are really big on kings!

Libertarians are also big on law and order. And the law is very clear that King Charles I was in the right and the High Court of Justice was in the wrong. The King is above the law and cannot be tried by any tribunal, the purported law creating the High Court of Justice was no law at all having never received royal assent, and it is absolutely impossible for the King to commit treason as he would have to betray himself.

And remember, the authority of the King flows from God. The High Court of Justice was wrong when they argued that King Charles was the elected King of England. He was not elected, he was anointed by God through the operation of hereditary descent.

Similarly, the traitorous Third Estate of France acted completely unconstitutionally and illegally when they declared themselves the equal of the other two Estates combined, and then after that somehow the sole government of France. In forcing a written constitution upon the King with force of arms and the threat of insurrection they committed treason, and in violating their own constitution which stated the King was immune from all prosecution they committed yet more treason.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

LordoftheMorons posted...

Jesus Christ what a fucking victim blaming comment from Weinsteins lawyer:

https://twitter.com/mega2e/status/1225786512144568321?s=21

If Weinstein is acquitted.... people are going to be so incredibly angry.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

banananor posted...

One way to do this would be to stop giving the rich so many tax breaks

And Trump has closed a bunch of tax loopholes like the famous Irish/Dutch sandwich. Maybe that's why he's the first president since Carter or so to improve real wages for the working class.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

TheRock1525 posted...

Cool all it takes to get obama-era growth levels is to have 1 trillion dollar deficit.

Under Obama we had 8 years of tremendous stock market growth and increases in the prosperity of the rich. And massive deficits.

Now that the working class are finally seeing growth, we can't stop the policy of big deficits now. Not until the working class have been restored to their pre-crash standing relative to the rich.

Remember, the top 1% pays 50% of the income taxes and therefore, they own 50% of the national debt.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

DoomTheGyarados posted...

My favorite thing about that is the % breakdown of that.

Who are those 15%

Social liberals and people who hate Trump. Basically, people like Mitt Romney.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

I think it's actually really dangerous for Democrats to focus on the things that made Obama a strong candidate other than his message. The political class on the left really loves to talk about his "ground game," his charisma, his oratory. But he also had a message and it was a powerful message. And Democrats don't talk about it anymore, maybe because they really don't want change we can believe in!

Like, in 2016, Hillary supporters and maybe the campaign were actually trying to answer "Make America Great Again" with "America is great because America is good" and "America is already great." Compare these slogans with "Yes we can" and "Change we can believe in" and you tell me which candidate had a message closer to Obama's?

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Obama also had a message of real change. He failed to deliver because being inexperienced, he ended up relying on a lot of the same experts that got us into the mess of 2008 in the first place. Among the Democrats today, Bernie is the only one pushing for major change.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Also, if you rely on experts, you will never ever have a government that is by the proletariat or of the proletariat. No expert is a proletariat.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

I think Hillary has trouble empathizing with regular people because she's been in politics her whole adult life. And she has too much faith in experts. The problem with outsourcing your decisions to experts is that relying on a consensus of experts makes you especially prone to groupthink, and to systemic error.

And I think that's sort of the rot at the heart of the Democratic Party these days, and why Bernie is unique. Bernie doesn't do things because a team of experts say it's the best policy. He does it because he thinks it is. He stuck with his socialism when every economist in the country was talking about how great neoliberal capitalism was. And then the worst recession in 80 years took place, and the economists realized that their success from 1980 - 2008 had been smoke and mirrors all along.

The people ultimately are electing a person to decide things on their behalf. You can take advice from experts but not orders. You can only take orders from the people.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

LordoftheMorons posted...

Hillary is very smart

Yet she lost to Donald Trump. That means that only the following two possibilities are possible:

1. Both DJT and HRC are very smart, and DJT is smarter.
2. DJT is very smart, and HRC is not, and DJT intentionally won by a small margin so as to maximize power amongst the winners (fewer people in the coalition means each person gets a bigger slice of the pie).

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Hillary believes she is very smart when really, she just married the most gifted politician of his generation. Then if all those rumors are true, she ignored his advice in the 2016 election and lost.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

banananor posted...

Holy shit does Hillary hate Sanders. Is this supposed to be reverse psychology?

As opposed to Hillary who promised to take people's jobs away and give them nothing. Because that was an amazingly effective campaign strategy for her.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Also, the idea of a special counsel subordinate to the President investigating the President was fatally flawed from the outset. What they needed was an independent counsel who reported to Congress, not the President.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

ZaziGuado posted...

Something I heard throughout the impeachment trial from Republicans that didn't get much push back was that the Mueller report proved that the Russian collusion was a hoax. However, my understanding of the conclusions from the Mueller report was that wasn't true.

If I'm not mistaken, and I may be because I never poured over the Mueller report, the conclusion was that there was no direct evidence of collusion, but there is still uncertainty due potential obstruction of justice and that there IS evidence that the Trump campaign was welcoming of Russian influence. Mueller didn't make a determination of guilt or crime because a sitting President cannot be charged and instead left it up to Congress to make that decision (which being Republican controlled had no chance of happening). Mueller definitively said, however, that he in no way exonerated Trump.

Did I get that all straight? And if so, why was there little push back when this claim was repeatedly made?

Yes, you are correct. Basically, Mueller concluded that he did not have the authority to charge the President and therefore, as a responsible, ethical, prosecutor he refused to issue an opinion one way or the other on that issue.

The Democrats sort of set themselves up for this though. They framed the Mueller investigation as an investigation of Trump for years, until the public thought that that is what it was. But Mueller never said that Trump was a target of his investigation, which did charge many other people.

Now, if a person is a target of an investigation, the prosecutor basically never will conclude that the person is innocent. They conclude that they do not have the evidence to convict and therefore do not file charges. Thus, if Mueller was actually investigating Trump, and followed usual protocol, his language of saying he cannot conclude that Trump committed any wrongdoing is the same as a prosecutor would use to "exonerate" someone. Legally there's no difference between the two coming from a prosecutor, since a prosecutor lacks the power of a trial jury to find someone permanently not guilty even if new evidence arises later.

So when Mueller came out with his report, the Democrats should have been prepared and said that he didn't conclude anything about Trump because he lacked the authority to do so. They did try, but they couldn't credibly do it because they had spent the previous 2 years talking about how Mueller was investigating Trump.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

LordoftheMorons posted...

Thread on Treasury voluntarily assisting Senate Rs weaponized "investigation" of Hunter Biden, previously having refused to cooperate with Congress on impeachment or with Trump's tax returns:

https://twitter.com/RepDonBeyer/status/1225558138998415363

Didn't the Democrats argue for years that Congress was entitled to get anyone's tax return? Seems like they should be estopped from complaining now.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

But I do agree a great performance for Buttigieg in Iowa and New Hampshire is worst for Warren. Biden is likely to keep most of his base of support in the red states, long after it's clear he isn't getting a majority of the delegates. Buttigieg had to come 1st or 2nd in Iowa/NH and it looks like he's on track to do so.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Suprak the Stud posted...

I guess...if Warren can't win Iowa or NH, what states is she expected to win?

She is likely to be strong in California, New York, Massachusetts, and most of the big blue states.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Shes the Comms Director for the Human Rights Campaign, and unfortunately shes 100% serious.

https://twitter.com/cmclymer/status/1224898815356030978?s=21

More cringe

At some point we have to consider that these people are Republican plants.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Like, there's a reason the Republican Party didn't impeach Obama. They knew he wouldn't be convicted. Sure, they could have gotten a majority of votes in the Senate to convict, they could have 6 months of trial and hundreds of witnesses, but they wouldn't get the conviction. And the acquittal would benefit the Democrats in the 2016 election. So the Republicans didn't impeach.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

FFDragon posted...

Look at all those consequences in 2000.

Democrats failed to press their advantage in 2000. Al Gore actively pushed Clinton away from his campaign, implicitly endorsing the impeachment. The Democrats are wrong to assume that Republicans will act like they do and decline to press an advantage. Republicans will pounce on the smallest advantage like a bald eagle dive-attacking a snake from above.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-respond-senate-trial-acquittal-noon-remarks-white/story?id=68800473

Really sounds like hes learned his lesson and wont do it again!

The real question is whether the Democrats have learned their lesson. Don't prosecute when you cannot convict, because trials have consequences! As do elections!

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Man Trump should have run in the Democratic Iowa caucuses. He could have won.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

LordoftheMorons posted...

Iirc superdelegates can now only vote from the second round onward, and the number of superdelegates was substantially reduced.

Right, so Bernie isn't winning a brokered convention then. Maybe they can be as dysfunctional as the 1860 Democratic Convention and actually leave without being able to agree on anyone, causing the Dems to splinter into 3 parties and allowing the Republican to win the Electoral College with 39% of the popular vote.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

So.....Hillary in 2nd now?

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

So, hypothetically, if Bernie Madoff ran for president and won.... would they have to release him so he can serve as president?

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/nprpolitics/status/1225181106812735488

If that's the case, the Senate should hold Nancy Pelosi in contempt for casting aspersions on the integrity of the Court of Impeachment. Is there a way to get her tried by a non-DC jury? San Francisco isn't great either.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

LordoftheMorons posted...

Removal gives you Mike Pence, not Biden it Clinton

Removal virtually guarantees the Democrats a win in November. Even worse, it gets them a win without the need to change anything about how they operate as a party. It will embolden the centrists and silence the working class who finally spoke up in 2016.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!

Or to put it this way - I consider collusion with Goldman Sachs and other banks like that to gain an advantage in US elections to absolutely be worse than colluding with Russia. Russia could be a friend and we're better off with them as a friend than foe. GS is an unrepentant enemy of the working class and all they offer us is our subjugation by them.

Hillary's speeches to big banks should be absolutely disqualifying.

---

September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!