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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/22/20 2:47:18 PM
#222
LordoftheMorons posted...
Iirc whichever outlet broke the story transcribed the audio incorrectly. She said that Tulsi was a favorite of Russia but only a Republican asset.

And from Davos, Trump admitting to obstruction:

https://twitter.com/justinhendrix/status/1219981403120644103?s=21

Since when is the defense in a criminal case required to produce evidence against themselves? Never. We fought a revolution to guarantee to ourselves this right.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/22/20 2:41:12 PM
#219
I thought she said "Russian asset." It's going to be tough because Tulsi is a public figure so she has to prove Hillary acted with actual malice. But I do believe that Hillary acted knowingly and maliciously so hopefully that truth will come out. The case does have a problem with damages - it seems like Hillary's comment boosted Tulsi in the polls so it doesn't seem to have damaged her.

If I could as a juror, I would award Tulsi $1 in nominal damages and $49,999,999 in punitive damages. I don't think 50 million x punitive damages are allowed anymore though.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/22/20 2:20:14 PM
#216
banananor posted...
wait... when does the statute of limitations run out on birtherism?

Based on a google search, it looks like the various states vary between 6 months to 3 years. So I think we are already past that point.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/22/20 2:01:25 PM
#214
I'm hoping that by 2032, the Democratic Party will fade into irrelevancy, and the Republican Party can split into 2 new parties to represent the left and the right while the toxic centrists go down with the ship of the Democratic Party into political defeat for a generation.

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TopicShould the Republican Party adopt socialism?
red sox 777
01/22/20 1:52:05 PM
#1
Should the Republican Party adopt socialism?




Vote away!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/22/20 1:18:04 PM
#212
2024 Democratic Primary:

Ronald Reagan Jr.
Megan McCain
Michelle Obama
Hillary Clinton
Lindsey Graham
John Kasich
Elizabeth Warren
Mike Bloomberg
Tom Steyer
Mitt Romney

The list of 2024 Dem contenders after the Republicans poach their best talent.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/22/20 12:42:48 PM
#211
Judge Jeanine on Fox News has been repeatedly hammering Clinton/Obama for months/years for secretly selling uranium to Russia. So maybe Trump got some ideas there.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/22/20 12:18:25 PM
#208
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/22/tulsi-gabbard-hillary-clinton-russian-asset-defamation-lawsuit

It's happening! Tulsi Gabbard has sued Hillary Clinton for defamation, seeking $50 million. Go Tulsi!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/22/20 2:14:50 AM
#199
I read the articles of impeachment. What garbage. I fully support a motion to dismiss. Get to work on issues of actual importance like repealing and replacing Obamacare and investigating Hillary's emails.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/22/20 2:02:06 AM
#195
Spoilers:

Trump's reality bending powers are fueled by the Democratic Party's refusal to apologize. When they wake up and repent and show genuine contrition and take action to reform themselves, Trump will fade into the history books as the man who saved the Democratic Party by confronting them with reality.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/22/20 1:58:02 AM
#194
LordoftheMorons posted...
https://twitter.com/lawrence/status/1219859504352976896?s=21

LOL how does somehow even say that with a straight face

Trump is a man of his word. Reality simply shifts to whatever he is saying at the moment. If the Democrats disagree let them prove it!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 9:09:57 PM
#172
LordoftheMorons posted...
It's funny to see you say that because that's a large part of the argument that Sanders unacceptably hurt Hillary in the last primary! (e.g. that it's impossible to walk back insinuations that Clinton was bought and sold by Goldman Sachs or whoever).

She still shouldn't be doing it, but I'm pretty certain that in her mind she's just doing to him what he did to her (and she wouldn't be totally wrong).

But those allegations were true. Hillary should have confessed and either said "so what" like Trump, or quit and let Bernie be the nominee.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 7:51:21 PM
#160
LordoftheMorons posted...
Good, Hillary walked back the uncertainty about supporting Sanders:

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1219773503735508992

Hillary, you can't even imagine having authentic views anymore. You've gone so long without having them that you can't even imagine what they look like anymore. Please retire and work on accepting that the American People made the right decision in choosing Donald Trump over you.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 7:49:16 PM
#158
So I wonder if the Democrats will learn a lesson from this. If you start something, Mitch McConnell is prepared to finish it. Harry Reid started the nuclear option and Mitch has expanded and perfected it. The House used an arbitrary process based on partisanship and now Mitch is taking it to its conclusion.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 7:33:32 PM
#154
HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
You somehow forgot Don Jr., Eric Trump, and most importantly Kanye West

The Trump family will have a private primary to decide which member they run to avoid splitting the votes. The GOP will not support Kanye.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 7:08:24 PM
#150
So now our field for Republican nominee 2024:

Bernie Sanders
Tulsi Gabbard
Andrew Yang
Pete Buttigieg
George Prescott Bush
Ivanka Trump
Kellyanne Conway
Nikki Haley
Matt Gaetz
Marco Rubio
Ted Cruz

Looks pretty good!


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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 6:58:01 PM
#148
Pete is actually very good looking. I think the GOP should invite him to run in the GOP primary in 2024.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 6:39:14 PM
#144
xp1337 posted...
i mean watching the checks and balances of our government die in real time is kind of a big deal even if we all knew it was going to happen

The Senate is a check on the House's power. This isn't the UK where a simple majority of the Commons can remove a prime minister.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 5:19:12 PM
#90
LordoftheMorons posted...
In a relative sense, she does get called out too much compared to other GOP Senators because she has a history of sometimes not being a total hack.

But the solution to this unfairness isnt to call her out less, its to call out people like, say, Josh Hawley, assumed to be a pro-fuckery vote, more.

But if you do that you get tuned out. You have a limited amount of political credibility so it's all about how you allocate it. That's why nothing sticks against Trump - the Democrats attack him with the same intensity for bragging about himself on MLK Day and for using his office to enrich himself. You lose all your credibility that way.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 5:00:54 PM
#83
Liberals from outside Maine have been so incredibly mean to Susan Collins, it's really shameful. She is the most or 2nd most moderate Republican senator and they treat her far more viciously than anyone else. I mean if that's the reward you get for trying to broker compromise it's just sending the message it's better to just vote in lockstep with Mitch at all times and stay out of the spotlight.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 4:56:56 PM
#82
LordoftheMorons posted...
I said Bernie isnt sexist

A lot of his vocal online supporters are

Anyone can claim to support anyone. Maybe all the people saying Hillary's deplorables comment was correct were actually Russians being paid to post online and we shouldn't have gotten so upset at the liberals after all!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 4:52:58 PM
#80
Hillary's comment is the epitome of toxic. She disagrees with Bernie on policy issues but she can't win a debate with him there in the eyes of the public so she resorts to smears. It's like Bush accusing McCain of having a mixed race child out of wedlock.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 4:40:18 PM
#73
LordoftheMorons posted...
The story of genesis blames Eve - literally an avatar for her entire gender - for giving into the snake and costing humanity Eden

Genesis places greater blame on the snake, who is male. Also, Adam uses that exact defense of blaming Eve when God confronts him and God does not accept it as a defense.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 4:33:34 PM
#66
LordoftheMorons posted...
Snake has been a gendered insult since Genesis!

(and plenty of women are sexist against other women fwiw...!)

What? The snake in Genesis is male.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 4:30:34 PM
#64
LordoftheMorons posted...
I dont think that Bernie himself is a sexist.

I do think that, e.g., an army of Bernie supporters swarming Warren tweets with s is sexist, and its just a fact that theres way more of that going on among Bernie supporters than supporters of any other (Democratic) candidate. He cant totally control what they do, but its a big enough problem that he should be explicitly calling it out.

You have no way of knowing if those people are even Bernie supporters. They could be people working in a warehouse in Russia.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 4:29:11 PM
#62
If Bernie gets elected the Clinton Foundation (and the Trump Foundation if it's still around) might have to start paying taxes.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 3:52:31 PM
#53
Jakyl25 posted...
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/01/21/metro/iranian-student-removed-us-before-court-hearing-lawyer-says/

Yay police state!

Well, if Northeastern refunds his tuition, he's probably better off. Definitely better than sitting in jail.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 3:27:25 PM
#48
I'm not sure how I feel about Trump's thing about holding members of Congress responsible for what happens in their district. Like how much power does Nancy Pelosi have to address homelessness in San Francisco? She's SF's delegate to Congress, not its queen. It seems unfair to blame her for problems outside the scope of her position.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 2:44:19 PM
#44
LordoftheMorons posted...
They were allowed to call witnesses (iirc Sondland and Morrison were their witnesses?). What was rejected was the Republicans either calling witnesses that couldn't possible have any relevant knowledge (e.g. Hunter Biden) or calling a witness in order to illegally retaliate against them (calling the whistleblower in order to reveal their identity and then allow Trump to punish them).

edit: I think Volker might also have been one of theirs

Right, well then the Senate may also refuse to hear from witnesses with no relevant knowledge. So strike all the law professors the House heard from, none of whom had any personal knowledge of any of the allegations. And based on the precedent set by the House, the majority of the Senate has complete discretion to decide who has and does not have relevant knowledge. So it may be that the only witnesses are going to be Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, and Hillary Clinton. I look forward to them pleading the fifth.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 2:35:41 PM
#40
More seriously, LOTM, the precedent that the House violated was not that the defense gets to call witnesses, but that the minority party in Congress gets to call witnesses. The minority on any Congressional committee is always allowed to call witnesses - or at least that was the precedent.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 2:28:29 PM
#37
LordoftheMorons posted...
Impeachment is an indictment

No one gets to call witnesses in defense before being indicted

The members of the grand jury are allowed to call witnesses and issue subpoenas to compel their appearance. Here, the majority of the House refused to allow the minority to call its witnesses. So, if Mitch was really being fair, he would apply the same rule in the Senate - only the majority party may call witnesses. But he's actually being nice and allowing both sides to present evidence if they get past the motion to dismiss stage. Very generous of him!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 1:44:43 PM
#27
So reflecting a bit more on the impeachment trial:

Democrats spent months telling us that impeachment was not a criminal trial and the House did not have to give the President all the rights the Constitution gives to a criminal defendant. Ok, fair enough. You are allowed to have a kangaroo court hearing in which you don't allow the defense to call witnesses. But by the same reasoning, the Senate is equally empowered to decide what it thinks the standards and rules for an impeachment trial should be. And the Senate can make the standard of proof for an impeachment trial higher than a regular one. Fair is fair.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 1:00:53 PM
#25
Ok, how much is Donald Trump paying Hillary Clinton to make all these comments? It's like she is trying to make the 2020 Democratic nominee lose.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 12:28:20 PM
#22
Not_an_Owl posted...
Impeach McConnell tbqh

There is precedent that members of Congress cannot be impeached, but imagine the fun we could have if it were allowed.

House: We impeach Mitch McConnell.
Senate: We acquit Mitch McConnell. Also we received a second set of articles of impeachment impeaching Nancy Pelosi.
House: Wait, we didn't impeach Pelosi.
Senate: Well, we received a document titled "Articles of Impeachment against Nancy Pelosi" so we are going to put her on trial.
House: Well, then we won't present any evidence against her.
Senate: We convict Nancy Pelosi for obstruction of justice for directing the House to refuse to prosecute her.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 12:12:49 PM
#19
Xeybozn posted...
Come to think of it, isn't Pelosi the person in charge of inviting Trump to the Capitol to give the SotU address? Could she threaten to rescind his invitation if a fair trial isn't allowed? I feel like Trump would fold pretty easily just because of his need for everyone to pay attention to him.

Yes, but there are workarounds. Mitch could invite Trump to give the SOTU in the Senate chamber and tell the House they can watch on TV.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 12:06:15 PM
#17
Yes, I think some of the Republican senators are worried about the optics of dismissing the charges even if they know it's the right thing to do. Plus the House could then vote for new articles of impeachment that actually charge real crimes. Probably the safest thing to do to avoid dismissal is to just charge bribery. That is explicitly stated by the Constitution as an impeachable offense so they couldn't really dismiss it.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 11:19:47 AM
#14
So to explain a bit further, the prosecution and defense can agree to admit evidence to save time. Like, suppose the prosecution wants to call an expert in psychic readings to testify about what she saw in her crystal ball. The defense could probably object and get her testimony excluded on the ground that psychic readings are not reliable. But if the defense doesn't mind, they could agree to let the testimony in. Maybe the defense thinks the jury will think it's a witch hunt!

It looks like this happened in the Clinton case given the unanimous vote to admit the House record. Note that is not a vote to believe the contents of the House record, only to allow the jury to consider it. In a regular court the judge would rule on admissibility before the jury hears the evidence so that if it's found inadmissible the jury never hears it. That's not possible in the Senate where the senators are judge and jury, but in principle the senators are supposed to not consider evidence found inadmissible.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 11:11:18 AM
#12
Well evidence can be admissible and not be believed. Evidence can also be admissible and not sufficient to prove the charges made.

And Xp, I don't think I was wrong. The Senate in the Clinton case did vote on whether to admit the House record and they voted for it. That's all McConnell is asking for here - a fair vote. If the House proposes that they admit all of the House record the outcome will be no. But that doesn't mean each individual piece of evidence is going to be ruled inadmissible.

There are well established rules in regular court to aid in deciding on admissibility. While not binding on the Senate, this idea that the House won't be allowed to speak is ridiculous. If the House has any non-hearsay evidence that they've disclosed to the defense ahead of time and doesn't violate the Bill of Rights, they'll get to present it.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 260: Now Endorsing Every Candidate
red sox 777
01/21/20 9:50:04 AM
#8
xp1337 posted...
Quoting from closed topics is hard (or i'm dumb) so wrt "what did the Senate do with Clinton" discussion that broke out at the end of last topic

From the first paragraph of the bipartisan resolution for Senate Impeachment Trial Procedures for the Impeachment Trial of Bill Clinton that was passed unanimously.

Now with McConnell's proposed rules that he's looking to ram through with just Republican support (and it seems he has at least Romney and Alexander with him on the rules so it'll pass) the Senate will vote on it later - seemingly after opening arguments which means they'll have the House Impeachment Managers likely making their opening arguments without first establishing what the fucking record even is. This would normally also be true that they'd be making the defense fly blind too but given that McConnell has literally stated he's coordinating with the White House in the trial...

Any non-sham court decides these rules before the trial and doesn't just make this shit up as they go.

Because the Senate found that the House in the Clinton case conducted a legitimate investigation that led to admissible evidence. The defense has alleged and many senators have agreed that the House investigation this time lacked due process, is replete with hearsay, and generally produced no admissible evidence. Given these claims, the Senate needs to vote to decide this.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 259: Raucous Caucus Robots
red sox 777
01/21/20 6:04:17 AM
#500
Mr Lasastryke posted...
was the house's evidence subjected to a vote during the bill clinton impeachment process?

I'd be shocked if it wasn't. That would mean that President Clinton was denied the most basic due process. The court needs to do its job, a part of which is to rule on whether evidence is admissible (i.e. if the whistleblower won't testify, his evidence is getting tossed).

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 259: Raucous Caucus Robots
red sox 777
01/21/20 5:47:01 AM
#496
xp1337 posted...
Not sure if this was mentioned before everything got sidelined into the MLK discussion but...

https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1219394380508864513

brace for maximum fuckery

McConnell's rules literally does not automatically admit the House's evidence and subjects it to a vote. this is some

tired: trump didn't do it
wired: okay maybe he did it but there isn't sufficient evidence
inspired: can't convict if there's no evidence in the record

shit

It's 100% normal for the trial court to decide whether to admit evidence as it is presented. Like every trial court in the country does that, why would the Senate be an exception? If the House wants its evidence considered, it needs to present admissible evidence.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 259: Raucous Caucus Robots
red sox 777
01/20/20 11:33:58 PM
#479
LOTM, you should probably avoid posting libelous stuff. Like there's no benefit to it whatsoever.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 259: Raucous Caucus Robots
red sox 777
01/20/20 5:56:45 PM
#317
LOTM, just remember that when you get angry Trump wins.

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TopicWhat do you want most from the Republican Party?
red sox 777
01/19/20 10:30:11 PM
#1
What do you want most from the Republican Party?










What do you want from the GOP? Vote away!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 259: Raucous Caucus Robots
red sox 777
01/19/20 10:25:19 PM
#257
Corrik7 posted...
Sanders has been going after Biden as anti social security and anti Medicare lately.

Bernie, I want to stop paying into these things. That will save me a lot more money than Medicare for all or student loan forgiveness. Please make it happen!

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TopicWhat do you want most from/for the Democratic Party?
red sox 777
01/19/20 10:23:00 PM
#1
What do you want most from/for the Democratic Party?










Vote away!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 259: Raucous Caucus Robots
red sox 777
01/19/20 9:52:05 PM
#254
Bloomberg is the candidate you Democrats deserve.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 259: Raucous Caucus Robots
red sox 777
01/19/20 6:35:46 PM
#250
You can save time by just reading @realdonaldtrump. All the news is right there!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 259: Raucous Caucus Robots
red sox 777
01/19/20 5:17:26 PM
#246
So I realized another thing the Senate could do is filibuster until the election, then dismiss for mootness. Call it the corollary to the Biden Rule - the Senate will not remove a president during an election year.

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TopicWhat should the Senate do about impeachment?
red sox 777
01/19/20 5:14:44 PM
#1
What should the Senate do?







What should the Senate do?

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