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TopicShould the US gift the UK a giant silver statue to celebrate Brexit?
red sox 777
01/09/20 9:33:12 PM
#1
Should the US gift the UK a giant silver statue to celebrate Brexit?


To celebrate our centenary of independence, France sent us the Statue of Liberty. Shall we send the UK a statue of similar size (in silver to reflect our greater wealth compared to 19th century France) to celebrate its independence from the European Union?

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/09/20 8:08:53 PM
#416
xp1337 posted...
I still feel like Steyer is the strangest candidate in the race.

His rhetoric on wealth inequality and climate change sounds much like the Warren/Sanders side of the party. But the fact that he's a billionaire who basically bought his way into this puts him at odds with like... most of everything they stand for lol?

Like if I didn't know his policies my no-info reaction would probably be something like, "People who want an old, moderate, white guy like Biden... but are worried about Biden because gaffes, age, etc." but it doesn't square up with his policy!

One of the data guys (might have been Silver, I forget) notes that yeah, he's basically the only one running ads in NV and SC right now but that that's been the case for months now so it doesn't really make sense as an explanation for why it's happening now. I do think Silver threw out a "working theory" that with all the news fatigue over impeachment and Iran that maybe his ad blitz is working better now as an alternative?

donations though i have no idea

Still think Steyer's best move was to declare victory when Pelosi announced the inquiry - since his rise to "prominence" in this cycle was him running those Impeach ads - and drop out declaring mission accomplished. I'm really left with no real other explanation then ego like Bloomberg but it kinda blows my mind that either of them would blow over a hundred million on a doomed vanity/ego campaign.

Yeah, cuz you're not a multi-billionaire. If you had that much money, a hundred million wouldn't hurt that much either.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/09/20 7:47:37 PM
#413
Kinglicious posted...
Who on earth is donating to Steyer

Trump.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/09/20 7:36:35 PM
#410
xp1337 posted...
Mind you, the Republican argument, to the extent they're making a legal argument at all and not just cheerleading Trump and throwing bullshit at the Democrats, is that this concurrent resolution would not be legally binding so I would anticipate that even if it got passed the Administration would claim the same and ignore it (and/or including a legal challenge to the War Powers Act itself.)

Since all Presidents since its enactment have declared it unconstitutional, including Carter, Clinton, and Obama, no doubt Trump will simply continue 40+ years of policy in ignoring the WPA entirely. He does not need to go to court to do that. Congress could go to court, but that would probably just result in the WPA being found unconstitutional, which is presumably why Congress hasn't asked the courts to rule on this in the past.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/09/20 7:18:55 PM
#405
LordoftheMorons posted...
https://twitter.com/SeanLangille/status/1215407904813207558

Steyer SURGE

Yeah, your party is doomed. You are so bankrupt on ideas that you are resorting to running billionaires and throwing money at the problem.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/09/20 7:12:28 PM
#401
LordoftheMorons posted...
Eh I'm not so sure. It looks like Mike Lee and Rand Paul will vote for it; you only need two more. I wouldn't say it's likely, but not DOA.

If Republicans were like Democrats, sure. Republicans don't vote in such a way as to hurt the party line*. Even the ones who do vote against their party only do so when they know it won't hurt the party.

*Except for the RINO John McCain. His years of RINO-ing are why Republicans hated him so much!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/09/20 7:06:43 PM
#398
Yeah, the Senate has to agree. Dead on arrival.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/09/20 6:55:56 PM
#394
He can't veto it. It's not legislation. It is ostensibly a lesser thing that was authorized under the War Powers Act, the same one that all the Democratic and Republican Presidents have asserted is unconstitutional and ignored since it was passed.

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TopicShould President Trump grant amnesty for everyone sent to prison under Obama?
red sox 777
01/09/20 6:44:54 PM
#6
Very close vote so far!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/09/20 4:56:11 PM
#388
Anyone who says they support the face-eating leopards but didn't think it would apply to them is a RINO. A real Republican would understand the need to suffer personal loss for the betterment of the party, and through the party, the country.

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TopicShould President Trump grant amnesty for everyone sent to prison under Obama?
red sox 777
01/09/20 3:40:55 AM
#1
Should President Trump grant amnesty for everyone sent to prison under Obama?


In the past, it was customary for many Emperors of China to declare an amnesty upon their accession to the throne, freeing and pardoning all prisoners. Should President Trump pardon every single person sent to prison during the terms of President Obama?

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TopicShould Obamacare be immediately repealed in full?
red sox 777
01/08/20 11:58:44 PM
#1
Should Obamacare be immediately repealed in full?


After 3 years, it is apparent that "repeal and replace" is unworkable for now because there is no agreement on what the replacement should be. Should we immediately repeal Obamacare without a replacement for now?

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 9:38:08 PM
#367
LordoftheMorons posted...
None of them would have been in this situation. Trump created the situation.

No, Hillary would have been in a different, much more difficult to solve situation, like we were in with ISIS a few years ago. Because she would have gotten herself into it!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 9:34:02 PM
#366
foolm0r0n posted...
Bro don't plagiarize me like that

Excuse me? I've been saying this for years. I'm sure people have been saying this for decades. It's common sense.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 3:34:45 PM
#349
I've consistently placed Warren high up my list of Democratic candidates. The main thing I don't like about her is how much establishment support she gets and her failure to disavow it (and of course, her refusal to endorse Bernie in 2016 over Hillary).

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 3:29:38 PM
#347
That's why I'm tying the government payout to the average cost of services in countries that don't use private insurance!

Basically, insurance as a product intrinisically protects wealth. It's relationship to income is only tangential. So if you want an insurance-based system, payment into it should depend on wealth. In a sane market, you would see insurers charging wildly different rates depending on how much wealth their customers have to protect. Like, if I have 5 million dollars and I am going to need cancer treatment that costs 5 million dollars, I'm probably willing to pay a lot more in premiums than the prevailing market rates now. But if I only have $5,000, why do I need coverage for $5 million? I'm better off paying lower premiums and ending up with a big debt I'll never pay if it comes to that.

The awfulness of the US healthcare system comes from conflating insurance with healthcare. So yeah I guess in theory, M4A wouldn't cost the country any more than the current system because higher taxes would be offset by not having to pay health insurance, or by raises for people whose insurance is covered by their employer. I just don't want to be in the temporary situation of not getting a raise in proportion with the cost of the insurance my employer is paying for now, while I am taxed more to pay for the new government healthcare.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 3:19:23 PM
#345
So here's an alternative idea. Keep the law that says hospitals have to treat people regardless of whether they can pay and extend it to all medical providers. Patients then receive a bill. If they don't pay, they can declare a new form of bankruptcy called medical bankruptcy. Unlike regular bankruptcy, this doesn't go on your credit report and you can come back for more rounds of medical bankruptcy over and over and over. The government will pay for amounts charged by medical providers and not paid but only up to the average value of those services in OECD countries excluding the US.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 3:13:10 PM
#343
DoomTheGyarados posted...
Hey to be fair to Seph he agrees with me that we could get that budget down by 50% and still swing our dicks around. That's like 450B a year more for domestic spending.

Or to put it another way, I just pitched in about 15% of M4A's budget yearly. This is easy guys.

M4A is that expensive? 3 times the military budget? That is probably pretty close to the entire current federal budget......

If it's that expensive I don't see how we are going to pay for it. Like are you going to double everyone's taxes to do it? I seriously can't afford that.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 1:36:52 PM
#339
LordoftheMorons posted...
Though very worth keeping this in mind:

https://twitter.com/brhodes/status/1214971589990608897

That only shows how much more skilled Trump is than Obama. With the exact same outcome, he can be successful while Obama would have failed.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 12:32:32 PM
#331
Morally indistinguishable from ISIS? Oh come on that's not true. ISIS is like an order of magnitude worse.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 12:27:22 PM
#328
Jakyl25 posted...
I dont know if you remember this, but there was recently a Democrat in office and this didnt happen

The President of Iran came to New York and assured us that this couldn't possibly be a problem because there were no homosexuals in Iran!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 12:25:41 PM
#326
But yeah, Trump doesn't do tit for tat (or as Obama or Hillary would call it, proportional responses). Neither did Genghis Khan or Niccolo Machiavelli.

There's an excellent story reported by Roman historians about an episode in a war between the Romans and Sabeans, which illustrates the pitfalls of tit for tat. At that point in the war, Rome was clearly an overall stronger power. But the Sabeans had achieved a great victory in a battle and had taken an entire Roman legion prisoner. The Sabean general wrote to his father for advice on what to do next.

His father wrote back that he should release the entire Roman legion as an act of goodwill and then ask for peace. The general was shocked by this advice and wrote back to his father asking if that was really his advice. The father wrote back that yes, he stood by his advice to release the entire Roman legion, and believed that was the best strategy, but that if the general refused to do that, then the 2nd best option was to kill every single Roman soldier captured.

At this, the general thought his father had lost his marbles and ignored his advice. He subjected the Roman legion to ritual humiliation, and then released them. The war continued, and ultimately the Romans conquered the Sabeans.

So what was the general's error? By humiliating the Roman army, and then releasing them, he angered Rome and gave them the means by which to take vengeance (a legion intact). The best option was to release the legion without conditions because an act of such generosity would prove that the Sabeans did not want war and could lead to genuine friendship. Destroying the captured army was the next best option because while it would ensure the war went on, at least it would buy the Sabeans some time as Rome's capacity to wage war would be significantly lowered for a while. The worst option was the proportional response, which the general chose.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 12:10:15 PM
#318
Forceful_Dragon posted...
This was honestly the best I could have hoped for. That doesn't mean it's without downsides. We still switched very quickly from "if Iran retaliates we will react disproportionately" to "Iran appears to be standing down" as a result of them firing actual missiles at our facility. I have no doubt other actors are playing close attention to this. (I'm looking at you, North Korea)

I think the net result of our previous escalation is that the world is less safe, but we can't change the past so I'm satisfied with how today is going.

To be entirely fair, "disproportionate" could mean that we will respond with less than a proportional response. Doing nothing is definitely a disproportionate response!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/08/20 10:57:17 AM
#301
I think Trump is not sure what to do. Only one tweet last night, which contained no bluster, and promised a statement this morning. No tweet this morning for the first time since he's taken office probably.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/07/20 10:16:44 PM
#264
Oh my God. Does Iran have a death wish? Best case is they secretly told the US (maybe through Russian channels) about the attack before it happened so that troops could be moved to avoid casualties.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/07/20 2:30:11 PM
#111
I'm not confident of anything and I doubt it leads to anything, but I'm just saying, there's no possible benefit for that comment and the worst case is this: Let's say he's convicted and sentenced to life. Then he appeals and the appellate court tosses the sentence and orders a new trial because it looks like the judge sentenced him to life for contempt rather than all the crimes he committed. I'm sure that isn't really the case but the optics are bad.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/07/20 1:49:23 PM
#106
LordoftheMorons posted...
Short Weinstein trial thread

https://twitter.com/molcranenewman/status/1214567089404465152?s=21

The judge probably regrets saying that. Think about how this looks on appeal - the judge threatened to sentence him to life in prison for texting. Totally inappropriate.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/07/20 12:32:44 PM
#102
Jakyl25 posted...
Not really his call to make though is it

It could be. An illegal order from a President is not a Presidential order, right? Just like how if the King commands that which is illegal, it means that his ministers are guilty of giving him bad advice, because the King can do no wrong.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/07/20 12:28:22 PM
#99
Pompeo has announced that the US will not attack cultural sites.

It might be because I feel feverish, but I am really not feeling this Republican neocon-esque saber rattling. No, I don't believe Iran poses a real threat to the US and I really don't see why we can't make peace. I know everything may be part and parcel of Trump's grand plan to bring about a good peace deal but there are too many layers of plots within plots to keep track of for me, at least right now. Can Trump just come back and announce a peace deal once we have a great one?

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 11:33:00 PM
#88
We disagree on how much of the field votes would have gone to Trump.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 11:20:53 PM
#84
Kinglicious posted...
...no they didn't. The way trump won is exactly the same way Bernie is trying to win. There was no landslide.

Huh? Trump was miles ahead of any other candidate by number of votes received and delegates won. How was it not a landslide?

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 11:15:26 PM
#81
Kinglicious posted...
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. The guy who would've won the nomination if not for Trump isn't a strong nominee?

Like i personally split nominee and candidate. Former is your party, latter is the election. Since... Well, former is the party selection, aka, nominating. The latter you're actually running, aka, a candidate.

Basically do not underestimate Cruz. That seems incredibly foolish to do, he ain't a Rand Paul.

I meant that Cruz isn't a strong candidate in the general. But the way the Republican Party thinks, that makes him not a great candidate in the primary either. Really, the 2016 field outside of Trump was pretty weak. And they lost to him in a landslide.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 9:10:18 PM
#66
Maniac64 posted...
I'm all for a 2024 Republican primary headed by Bernie Tulsi and Yang.

Now that will move the conversation dramatically to the left, when Tulsi is the most conservative major candidate from either party.

I'm sure people like Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz will run as well but they just aren't very strong candidates, and besides, Bernie or Tulsi or Yang as a Republican would crush whichever establishment sap the Democrats put up. So if it comes down to electability, and in the GOP that is always priority #1...

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 8:09:07 PM
#63
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vank_Cathedral

Would you believe that this cathedral is in Iran? Probably a nicer interior than any Christian cathedral in the United States and they haven't turned it into a mosque!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 7:42:45 PM
#61
Kinglicious posted...
Absolutely not. Warren is currently regaining her status as the establishment Chosen One after Pete proved that a slice of bread has a more diverse pallette than his voterbase. He's got no ability to pull from Bernie and Biden is remarkably resilient, so the football is back to her with Castro being an attempt to get a bit back.

I said if it goes to the general election that endorsement will hurt her.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 7:38:30 PM
#58
Kinglicious posted...
Trump's family isn't running in 2024, that strikes me as a fantasy of the left that everyone else us totally okay with laughing about. He ain't a Bush.

Yang doesn't fit with republicans either. Though he's got the 2nd highest crossover appeal it's largely due to his speaking to people instead of at them instead of policy.

The Republican Party doesn't have policies. It has one principle - that the ends justify the means - and one goal - power. The Republican Party would make the Communist Manifesto their manifesto if it led to victory.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 7:20:59 PM
#51
Nelson_Mandela posted...
In a sane world, this would knock her down several points

If she gets to the general and anyway remembers, it will.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 6:39:56 PM
#50
For that matter - Bernie - if you haven't retired by then and feel up to it - I would invite you to run as a Republican in 2024 also.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 6:38:52 PM
#49
Andrew Yang should run as a Republican in 2024. In the Republican Party he will find an audience willing to listen to and consider ideas, rather than deciding everything based on labels. One of Trump's children running to be his immediate successor would also be a really bad look for the republic.

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TopicShould the USA expand welfare?
red sox 777
01/06/20 6:08:06 PM
#1
Should the USA expand welfare?





Vote away!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 3:50:18 PM
#38
But definitely I applaud Marco for managing to write something so obfuscatory in only 140 characters.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 3:45:31 PM
#36
I'll let Marco speak for himself:

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1214271082812919809

There's a lot to unpack there, which would probably require several pages to do properly. But it seems rather disingenuous to me.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 2:54:16 PM
#33
Nelson_Mandela posted...
What are the odds the House will even formally submit the articles to the Senate? Less than 50% at this point?

The Senate may force their hand. I think there is already discussion afoot about holding the trial without receiving the articles. It's not like it isn't public record what they say. If the House refuses to participate in the trial the Senate can appoint a prosecutor to represent the House in its absence. Or just declare the House in default and acquit on the basis of no evidence being presented by the prosecution.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 1:14:20 PM
#24
I don't see the benefit to attacking cultural and historical sites. There's no military benefit to that. I'll presume that Trump is bluffing for now.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 11:12:32 AM
#15
The Democrats are nowhere near contrition. They still don't understand that they are in the wrong.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 11:11:24 AM
#14
Early call: Tulsi's got this. First female president!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/06/20 10:31:40 AM
#10
xp1337 posted...
Thread from a New Yorker writer that's more a reminder than anything - the original report was in 2017.

https://twitter.com/adamdavidson/status/1213873920400605187

When sanctions against Iran began Soleiman tasked an ally with setting up front companies to launder money so they could obtain missile systems to threan the US and Israel. In 2010, one of the biggest and most successful of the front companies tried to establish business ties with US companies. Despite spending a bunch he got only one American business to bite (because of his well known connection to Iran and that it was a laundering front)

The Trump Organization. Specifically, Ivanka worked closely with them on a tower in Azerbaijan. In 2015, the Trump Organization acknowledged they knew it was likely a laundering front for the Revolutionary Guard but kept working with them through the 2016 elections.

The original 2017 New Yorker article on the deal (that he notes the Trump Organization acknowledged was entirely true): https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal

I guess if he could hoodwink Ivanka he must be a real threat.

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 257: "Donald the Dove"
red sox 777
01/05/20 11:46:11 PM
#2
If he were a warhawk he wouldn't say things like that! You can't just say what you mean!

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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 256: We're saying "Merry Christmas" again!
red sox 777
01/05/20 11:40:11 PM
#498
LordoftheMorons posted...
And not pursuing impeachment on this would make Ukraine go the same way as the Mueller report (where 60% of America decides that Trump didn't do anything *that bad* after all despite all of the evidence to the contrary, because after all, if he did wouldn't Congress have tried to hold him accountable?). Even an unsuccessful impeachment can demonstrate to the majority of the country that what Trump did with Ukraine was profoundly wrong, and that they should not reward him with another term.

Yet you won't hold Hillary Clinton responsible. You won't hold Joe Biden responsible. The American People elected Donald Trump in 2016 to root out the corruption of the Democratic Party, and they will not turn against him for fulfilling his promises.

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September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013
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TopicPolitics Containment Topic 256: We're saying "Merry Christmas" again!
red sox 777
01/05/20 11:32:19 PM
#494
LordoftheMorons posted...
I'm not sure "don't try to remove the president because he's too emotionally unstable to handle it without getting us into a war" is exactly a compelling argument for keeping him around...!

You don't want to answer his question. You know that impeachment will fail. So if the President really is unstable, why provoke him? You cannot remove him through impeachment, so if you look three steps ahead you'll see that it is a bad idea if you are right about him being unstable.

But you don't want to answer his question because you are not concerned with what will happen. You just want to feel that you have done the "reasonable thing." But you aren't really thinking about the consequences.

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