Lurker > Inviso

Snake5555555555
Despite its title, this is definitely an Avengers movie in disguise. I think you can make Age of Ultron about Iron Man instead and have a better movie for yourself there, while just calling CW by what it really is. Still, thats just a title. The film is great regardless! It was a nice parralel to the Avengers: instead of coming together, theyre torn apart and were shown a different perspective on their characters and dynamics that feels like a nice soft reset for upcoming stories. Though, Ive always agreed with what Scarlet has said about this film, like its a family dinner gathering or something along those lines, whereas comics Civil War was a grand epic that may not have always worked but touched on practically every corner of Marvel from the A-Listers like Spider-Man to Z-Listers like NFL Superpro. CW shouldve definitely been down the line a little bit longer and 100% shouldve had the Netflix heroes but I digress; its still a satisfying film that especially magnifies CA & IMs personalities and brings the former up a lot in terms of character development. I love the beginning with Crossbones (RIP), I love everything about Black Panther in this movie, the use of Spider-Man is some Grade-A certified unmatched fan-service, the portrayal of Zemo is spectacular, its an absolutely thrilling film with just a slightly unfortunate title.

Jesse Custer
This Avengers movie masquerading as a Captain America movie was mostly pretty good, with well choreographed fight scenes, solid introductions to the MCU for Black Panther and Spider-Man, and a conflict between Cap and Iron Man that felt like it actually mattered (in contrast to what Batman v Superman tried to achieve). But Civil War had its problems too. The main villain was forgettable, while the far more interesting minor villain, Crossbones, was wasted all too quickly. And the culmination of the villains plans to break up The Avengers felt kind of contrived. Still Civil War is a movie worth watching for reasons other than simply following the overall story of the MCU.

Johnbobb
Even as I write this I think I might have put this too high. I definitely have some issues with its base qualities. Captain America is and always has been the villain of Civil War in both the comics and the movie, regardless of what they both want you to think. Zemo is a boring and forgettable villain. The whole premise just felt a little goofy. That being said, it's definitely one of the better of the "turn your brain off and just enjoy it for what it is" movies in the MCU.

Paratroopa1
I don't find the political intrigue involving the Accords as interesting as most people seem to - there's a whole lot of "who's right, Captain America or Iron Man?" and I kind of just don't give a shit? The whole movie is really sort of a bummer. I really don't like the idea of actually ruminating on the collateral damage that the heroes are causing and the idea that innocent people are getting killed in it - it makes big action scenes that take place in crowded areas really distracting. In movies like this I've always been kind of anxious about all the property damage that happens - someone has to clean that stuff up! - but to make me think, every time Hulk slams into the side of a building he's probably killing or seriously injuring ten people, it just sort of takes you out of the whole idea of it being fun, so I sort of hate that Civil War introduces this concept to us. Plus, people get kind of obnoxiously hardass on the Avengers - like, they get criticized for the events of Avengers 1! That incident wasn't their fault and their actions created a completely absurd best case scenario when the entire city would have otherwise been nuked! So the premise of the whole plot just kind of annoys the hell out of me, and the first hour of the movie feels like mostly an excuse to try to get two factions of heroes to face off each other. Which is fine, because once they do, it's a hell of a lot of fun, and the final action scene between Iron Man and Cap is pretty great too. So, alright, it's worth it in the end, but I can't help but find the premise of the whole movie frustrating.

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Anagram
Bucky, I know you were mind-controlled by Nazis, so youre not really responsible for my parents deaths. Im still upset, though, so I need to go cool off outside. Can you and Steve handle Zemo without me?

ZenOfThunder
Spider-Man is in this. It is basically someone taking their favorite action figures and slapping them against each other for 2.5 hours.

MetalmindStats
Zemo is admittedly a bit of a weak villain with questionable motivations, something which isnt particularly new for the MCU but matters much more than usual given Civil Wars plot. Still, I found the whole Sokovia Accords scenario plausible enough to buy it dividing the bulk of the Avengers and putting them under fire. That leaves a crisis unparalleled in the MCU at fleshing out and showcasing its characters as humans and as superheroes alike.

Illuminatusbubu
I think Captain America is very annoying goody two-shoes character. Luckily, this movie is not all about the Captain but more like a mini Avengers movie. The Conflict between the Avengers are believable and intriguing. Really change the tone from a childish superhero vibe to a more mature thought-provoking storytelling.

Sheep007
I dont think this is an amazing movie, especially compared to those above this, which are all damn good in their niche or genre. However, I think this was the Avengers movie where it all really clicked for me (and it is an Avengers movie, even if the focus is on Steve). By this stage all of the characters are likeable or interesting (and no Thor! You cant imagine how relieved I was by that), and I enjoy any story involving heroes fighting each other. Bucky is a great villain in the first half, TChalla is a great new character who manages to get a solid arc even with as little screen time as he has, and Peter is just a joy in every scene; I would watch an entire movie of Civil War Peter mouthing off in cheesy fight sequences. The airport fight, while perhaps a bit too busy, is good and has quite a few interesting set-pieces. It doesnt feel like serious combat, but I think thats kinda the intention given they mostly dont want to hurt each other. Except for Don Cheadle. Poor Don Cheadle. I dont think the humour is quite as good there like it is in some of the other movies, but this is meant to be a bit more serious so thats fair enough (although the scene where Bucky and Sam are in the car watching Steve get off with his exs far younger relative makes me smile every time). The villain is fine, but the main conflict is between heroes so thats not a big issue, and I think that central conflict is fairly strong. Overall, it does what it wanted to do pretty well.

HanOfTheNekos
Another film that fell a lot on rewatch. When I first watched this movie, I thought it was incredibly engaging. Thats points above all else. Spideys introduction was good, but Tchallas introduction was phenomenal. I thought the actual conflict between Cap and Tony made sense. And I like that Tonys side WAS important but in the end, he got left with nothing. Mostly betrayed, or with people he couldnt depend upon.

There were many cute interactions. Crossbones felt kind of wasted. Sharon Carters use was okay, but not the romance subplot Id have wanted for Cap. Peggy was the best, but he had good chemistry with Natalie Rushmore.

I also liked Zemo! He was uninvolved, but effective.

It was kind of stupid that most of the film was just a fight at an airport, but theres good character interaction there. Kind of stupid how it all falls apart because Rhodey got injured.

Overall, best moment of the film was the final fight between Tony and Cap/Bucky.

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Cybat
With how much this movie does well, it is a little unfortunate that the actual central conflict of the movie is kind of a mess. Most of Team Tony doesnt even really have that strong of an opinion about the Accords, including Tony himself, who flat-out ignores them when traveling to Siberia with Steve and Bucky. And of course they are never mentioned again after this movie, except when Ross vaguely threatens Steve in Infinity War. It maybe would have been better for them to wait until after they introduce like a million more heroes in the various Disney+ shows before trying a storyline like this.
But, if you can suspend disbelief a little bit more than usual, this movie is ridiculously fun. The introductions of Black Panther and, finally, Spider-Man, are outstanding (if spoiled a bit by the trailers), and hey Ant Man is here too! The conflict being based around Bucky makes perfect sense, and the reveal tying him in to Tonys backstory was handled with an unusual amount of seriousness for the MCU. Zemos plan was pretty convoluted but the general idea of it is great and pretty unique among comic book movies. And, man, that airport fight.

StifledSilence
I dunno if icky is the right word, but watching Cap and Tony fight makes me feel icky every time. Its so uncomfortable and jarring to watch them beat the shit out of each other, especially when both have valid points in this argument. Its hard to pick a side. One thing is for sure, however. I dare you to not feel for Iron Man when he discovers the fate of his parents. RDJs acting is superb and completely believable to the point he makes it feel real. That aside, Civil War flies by at a ridiculous pace, filled with multiple story threads that require the appropriate amount of ass kicking to settle. Icky feelings or not, this is easily one of the best MCU movies.

Whiskey_Nick
(No write-up.)

NBIceman
I like the Civil War comics event a little more than the average, and I believe thats true of my opinion of the movie that shares its name as well. From what Ive seen, people that dont really care for it seem to be of the opinion, broadly speaking, that the conflict which incites the titular battle doesnt feel big or grand enough, which gives the overall atmosphere a very low-stakes feeling. And Im not even saying thats entirely unfair, because the word War seems to promise something other than what we got. But if I strip away the title of the film and the implications behind it and just watch it for what it is, I think it accomplishes its purpose perfectly. The Sokovia Accords make very little sense in-universe, and Vision seems to be the only character supporting them simply because of its actual ideas. Tony does it out of guilt thats at least somewhat misplaced, Natasha approaches it from a political and PR standpoint, and so on. But the dividing line is drawn nonetheless, and the resulting standoff spirals out of control pretty much only because of the behind-the-scenes machinations of Zemo, who emerges as one of the best MCU villains because of it. Again, I understand the disappointment from people who wanted a larger scale clash, and hell, I wouldnt even have minded that myself. But Civil War decided to be something else, and that something else still has a lot going for it. Its got a good script, great action, and some fantastic character work, particularly on the part of Steve Rogers, who continues to demonstrate why hes the most compelling individual in the franchise. And hey, if youre really desperate for those lasting consequences, the Russos have stated that without the Avengers fracturing in this movie, Thanos loses in Infinity War. So, theres that.

VengefulKaelee
Not as good of an MCU event movie as Winter Soldier, but I'd argue it juggles all the different storylines it draws from better than the bigger, flashier Avengers entries that followed it. This really does honestly feel like a full-on Avengers movie; it's better than most of them and presents some pretty convincingly high stakes involving a lot of different characters. I can't say I absolutely love it, as some things about it are pretty forgettable, but this is one where the big showdown actually isn't a letdown thank to some shrewd writing adding emotional stakes to the proceedings.

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Lopen
Who is right, Cap or Tony? This is, to the extent they can be, a "thinky" Marvel movie, and I probably appreciate it more than I should just because of that, having discussions online about it.

Black Panther is fantastic in this movie-- this movie makes me more interested in him than his own. Watching the avengers fight amongst themselves is satisfying and given just enough justification to work, but the movie is really good at knowing when it's time to be serious too-- the stuff at the end with Iron Man and Cap/Bucky is heavy.

That being said it's a tad bloated in terms of involved characters while at the same time making the MCU feel small (this is a thing that affects all superheroes so having more pop in for cameos would help it feel bigger-- in the comics this involved like 10x the characters) so I have some nitpicks. The small scale is also part of why the conflict feels a little shoehorned.

Oh and it's Tony by the way.

XIII Rocks
I went back and forth on having this up at #4, because it has two obvious flaws, way more obvious than anything else this high. But the rest of the movie is so good that I had to.

Let me get the flaws out of the way first: Spider-Man and Ant Man are both really great in this movie, but I think the movie suffers because their inclusion, particularly Spider-Man's, is incredibly contrived. Tony Stark uses 24 of his 72 hours to go back to Queens and recruit a child he's never even spoken to before? It's really dumb. You could say it's worth it to get Spider-Man into the movie, and I can get on board with that. But still. Black Panther's debut in this movie, on the other hand, was really well-done and smoothly integrated with the plot. No complaints there. The other flaw: Zemo's plan. I'm really not sure what his plan actually was, and if what happened was his endgame. I'm really not sure how he could ever ensure that would actually happen.

Onto the positives, though. This movie has prooobably the two best fight sequences in the MCU and its best individual dialogue scene. I adore the airport battle - it is the MCU's crowning glory and its best battle sequence. Great use of character, funny, non-stop action...it's a total triumph. And then there's the Iron Man vs. Cap/Bucky fight, which is as thrilling as it is tragic and well-choreographed, and the use of Iron Man's analytics to beat Cap hand-to-hand. It did do a pro-wrestling kind of thing where both guys were "protected", though - Iron Man definitively loses, but he loses because it's a 2-on-1, so doubt is created. I'm not sure how much I like that, but I'm biased and wanted Iron Man to win.

That said - in Jurassic Park, I honestly find the conversations in the opening acts to be the most compelling part of the movie (such as the "could/should" lunch scene). And to me the lingering memory in Civil War isn't just the airport battle, or the underrated and outstanding Bucky/Cap/Panther chase. It's two specific scenes. First, the initial argument over the accords featuring almost all the active Avengers. The debate makes the occasional strange point but it mostly does a great job of demonstrating the pros and cons. Vision's monologue in particular is interesting and even more true than he thinks - the rise of Hulk caused Abomination, the rise of Iron Man caused all three of his villains and both Spider-Man villains, Thor's arrogance helped create Loki, etc. Then there's the scene I think is the MCU's best "talking" scene; the Stark/Rogers scene with the pen. The way it delves into the motivations of both characters and lays their ideological differences - the differences that define almost the entire infinity saga - makes it essential. I've rewatched it a dozen times, and certainly more than the airport battle or any other "talking" scene in the other movies.

Finally: there are legitimate arguments here for both sides. I know people disagree, but Stark and Romanoff to me were spot on. You take the pragmatic approach, sign the accords and then work to make them looser and looser. I'm glad that Cap's blind virtue wasn't presented here as absolutely correct. Oh, and I really like the ending to this, even if it does dilute the tension of the climax a little bit.

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GavsEvans123
The film takes its time establishing why the characters feel the way they do about the situation, and their experiences in previous films also helps add to this. For example, Caps dismantling of SHIELD after HYDRA had infiltrated it means its perfectly sensible for him to distrust some sort of overview system, in case something similar happens again. Likewise, Tony Stark would want control to keep him in check because the last time he performed scientific experiments unsupervised, he created Ultron, and even before then he used to be a weapons manufacturer. Its made clear that them fighting each other is the last resort, done only when all other options have fallen through. I also appreciate that the film has the guts to take its central concept to its logical conclusion, and avoid having the two sides reconcile while decking some CGI monsters face in, as it means the central conflict is relevant throughout, and not just an excuse to have Captain America and Iron Man fight each other. The Marvel films have been around long enough by now that they can start to tell stories such as this one that rely on the shared history of the characters, with the assumption that audiences will have seen most or all of the previous films.

You may think that with such a large cast list, the film would struggle to balance everyone without having someone overshadow everyone else or be shafted. In a pleasant surprise, this is not the case. Everyone gets a bit of focus and a reason to be involved, with nobody appearing for the sake of it. Some characters offer different aspects of the Sokovia Accords and how theyll be affected by them. Others, most notably Spider-Man and Ant Man, serve as comic relief, but are capable of being serious when necessary. Even more impressively, Cap isnt pushed out of his own film by having to share it with the rest of the Avengers, always remembering that its his name thats in the title. There are two plots running alongside each other, the Winter Soldier plot that follows on from The Winter Soldier, and the Accords plot that happens as a response to the events of Age of Ultron. Unlike many of these kinds of films, the two plots here complement each other well and blend into each other, thus avoiding a stop-start feel whenever the plot focus switches, and keeping a smooth pace throughout.

The new characters are particularly worthy of praise. Everything we need to know about Spider-Mans personality is established in only two scenes via the medium of Show Dont Tell, and without any expository dialogue or yet another retelling of his origin story, a blessed relief as Spider-Mans origin story is common knowledge, behind only Batman and Superman.

Chadwick Boseman as Black Panther is excellent, his character established in a comparable way to Spider-Man, but with a more prominent role. In his very cool-looking costume, he proves to be more than a match, carrying himself with dignity and grace, but also fury tempered with skill. Like Spider-Man, Black Panthers character develops naturally in the film, without it needing to pause to introduce him. Also worth noting is the enigmatic villain Zemo, played by Daniel Bruhl. He may just be an ordinary man without any superpowers, but hes one of the Avengers most dangerous foes yet despite this, posing a challenge of a different sort. Hes also capable of subverting clichs and offer some new twists, with one particularly cruel one near the end Mission Report, December 16, 1991. Best of all, he doesnt die at the end!

The kiss between Cap and Sharon Carter was a bit weird, since we dont see them together all that much. I can buy it happening, but not quite yet. It feels a little like something Disney mandated to stop the shippers from saying Cap is gay for Bucky (It doesnt stop me from saying Cap is bi for Bucky though. Big brain right there, galaxy brain! I feel like that big-brain Mickey Mouse picture.) Also, since Caps faction opposes government oversight and accountability, even if collateral damage results from their actions, can we call them Team America?

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CoolCly
This is basically Avengers: Civil War, and thats perfectly fine with me!
This movie is just such a highlight of how great the MCU is at bringing all these characters together and allowing them to mesh and clash, and keep them all acting perfectly in character with how theyve been developed in prior movies. It never feels like anybody is at odds with how theyve been portrayed before, which is what we would see by lesser writers and directors.
One thing I *love* is when people say this movie sucks because Iron Man is obviously right.. and then other people say this movie sucks because Captain America is obviously right. Its a pretty braindead take either way. If you come to that conclusion, then you didnt think about it for more than 10 seconds. You just thought about until you came up with *your* conclusion and decided thats the right one.
Of course, thats what makes the conflict about the accords actually good. Both Iron Man and Cap have compelling reasons why they are taking the side they are here.
The result of the movie is that the accords are dumb because its technically a Captain America movie, and these dumb accords just get in our super heroes way anyways, but its still a great question and good way to split the heroes into teams and fight eachother. And the fights are awesome.
I love Zemo. He doesnt really care about the accords or the heroes or anything. Hes devastated that he lost his family, and he blames the heroes. Therefore, hes going to enact a plan and destroy him. Theres really nothing special about him individually that makes him a supervillain, hes just very good at finding information and using his spycraft to use it. He makes the Avengers and the government dance to his tune, and I love the whole ride he takes us on.
TChalla is introduced spectacularly here. Hes entirely driven by revenge of what happens to his dad, but his arc is wrapped up pretty satisfyingly, which is good considering he strangely didnt get a lot of focus in his own movie.
Ive seen a lot of criticism that this movie is completely lacking in memorable locations. Its a movie of stairwells and meeting rooms. And its true. But. Thats not really a problem. Fantastic landscapes and memorable locations are a boon to any movie but that doesnt mean every movie needs to have them. This movie has compelling character interactions and top tier action. It keeps everything consistent and continues to up the stakes throughout the movie. When our heroes are finally on the same page. Zemo shows Tony a movie, and things get dialed up to 11
This is a GREAT movie and I love it.

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Mega Mana
First Moment That Comes to Mind: Cap reading the accords with Falcon and War Machine conversing behind him

Civil War may be my favorite MCU movie and one of my favorite films ever (Infinity War and Winter Soldier all jockey for first place, really). It's a movie dealing with consequences. Is it an Avengers movie? No. The Avengers are in Captain America's life and they are brilliant supporting characters in his story, getting their own side stories advanced forward (particularly Wanda & Vision), and we get two amazing introductions for Spider-Man and Black Panther, but first and foremost this is about Captain America. The First Avenger was about what makes Captain America a great hero and establishes his moral fortitude and duty to protecting and saving others. The Winter Soldier was putting his integrity to the test against country and power if the corruption is pervasive. Civil War... is the first big test of grey. There is no black or white answer here. This isn't HYDRA. This is about beliefs, trust, friendship, moral quandaries, choosing between two difficult choices, and standing up for what you believe in.

There are a lot, A LOT, of rambling paragraphs that get muddled coming out of my head that I'll forego expanding upon here, e.g. the role of how guilt affects decision-making (Cap, Tony, Panther, Spider-Man, Zemo, Vision, Bucky), the toxicity of vengeance, accountability of actions, fatherhood and male role models, easy vs. difficult decisions and slippery slopes, etc. My brain sees so much minute wonderful detailing in this superhero movie that I wish I had more collegiate and dexterous ability to focus and express. I love thinking about this movie.

Like, I sometimes forget there's the big superhero battle in the middle, but also... Spider-Man has an incredible debut as both Peter and as the Brooklyn-based webslinger; Black Panther is absolutely key in the themes of this movie and his scene at the end with Zemo is such a perfect contrast to Tony vs. Cap; Ant-Man, Hawkeye, Falcon, Winter Soldier, Spidey, and Black Widow bring out some full belly laughs; the non-twist of more Winter Soldiers to fight is wonderful; Iron Man vs. Captain America and the Winter Soldier is beautifully choreographed; the running in the tunnel soooo good; ahhhh.... I love so much of this movie.

I think Winter Soldier is a better crafted film. I think Infinity War tugs my heartstrings so much more. But Civil War just has all the action, heart, comedy, drama, characters, theme, pathos, and juggled storylines wrapped together in a big present that works on so many levels for me. That's why it's my #1. I cannot gush enough about Civil War.

BetrayedTangy
Theres a reason people call this movie Avengers 2.5. We get a ton of characters, the fight scenes are epic and it sets up a lot of the universe going forward. The only thing keeping it below my number 1 is that its still technically a Cap movie and his character is definitely given the higher priority. Its really a shame too, because RDJ does a great job of showing how much this situation pains his character. Also one of my favorite details from this scene is when Clint introduces himself to TChalla to which he replies I dont care. Then later in Endgame he actually refers to him as Clint. Such a nice detail that says a lot about TChalla as a character.

MetalDK
Black Panther was more intriguing in this than his own movie

ScepterOfLove
(No write-up.)

Corrik7
Getting to see the avengers against one another was great to see on film. It was also good to see Spider-Man finally get involved with the other characters too. The Stark / Captain / Winter Soldier angle was good and intense.

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8. Captain America: Civil War
Total Score: 297

Mega Mana 1
BetrayedTangy - 2
MetalDK 2
ScepterOfLove - 2
Corrik7 3
CoolCly - 4
GavsEvans123 4
Lopen - 4
XIII Rocks 4
Cybat - 5
StifledSilence - 5
Whiskey Nick 5
NBIceman 6
VengefulKaelee - 6
Anagram - 7
ZenOfThunder 7
MetalmindStats 8
Illuminatusbubu - 9
Sheep007 9
HanOfTheNekos - 10
Snake5555555555 - 10
Jesse Custer 14
Johnbobb 14
Paratroopa1 - 14
TomNook 14
Mr Crispy 15
Red13n - 16
Raka Putra - 17
Maniac64 18
Inviso 20
Eddv - 21
PrinceKaro - 21

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StifledSilence posted...

I doubt the predictors are all low rankings. In fact, Im guessing most of those folks ranked it in the middle or a little higher. Then the ones that ranked it high will push it to the moon.

The one thing I'm noticing about the GotG2 stuff is that a lot of it is coming from people who didn't submit lists, which might explain the disparity in opinion compared to the list's outcome.

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SSBM_Guy posted...

Wow. That hint basically means anything except the GOTG movies are up next.

I'm starting to believe that GOTG1 is #1 because wow. Next is probably Civil War.

Winter Soldier doesn't fit the hint either, as far as I'm aware.

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OUTLIERS:

Eddv - 105
PrinceKaro - 85
Johnbobb - 79
BetrayedTangy - 72
Jesse Custer - 67
VengefulKaelee - 67
TomNook - 64
Paratroopa1 - 60
Lopen - 59
Mr Crispy - 56
ScepterOfLove - 55
Snake5555555555 - 55
MetalmindStats - 53
GavsEvans123 - 52
StifledSilence - 52
Inviso - 51
Illuminatusbubu - 50
HanOfTheNekos - 49
Raka Putra - 49
Corrik7 - 46
XIII Rocks - 46
Anagram - 45
Maniac64 - 43
Whiskey Nick - 43
Cybat - 41
NBIceman - 40
Mega Mana - 38
Red13n - 35
CoolCly - 34
MetalDK - 33
Sheep007 - 32
ZenOfThunder 21

Nothing really new after this ranking. Zen picks up a point, but the battle for second-place is now divvied up among Red, Cly, MetalDK, and Sheep, with Mana and Iceman falling out of contention. Meanwhile, the placements at the top of the list seem to be solidifying, barring some unexpected outlier.

Spoiler for Number 8: Features (at least) two of the heroes who got solo movies in Phase 1.

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Mega Mana
First Moment That Comes to Mind: The train fight scene

Of all the moments I list for these entries, this may be the only negative one. It's not something I should really harp on: there was a time crunch to get this out before Infinity War, and many of the animators were invested in the big tentpole movie. But also, I wrote up Ant-Man and the Wasp absolutely stunned by the level of effects work that went in to it and that came out in the same time frame! So the purple and orange early 00s CGI fight in the super sonic train tunnels... that's what my mind remembers about this movie. Which is a shame since the rest of the movie is really good.
Killmonger is excellent, Chadwick Boseman (RIP) is absolute heaven, the supporting cast of Shuri, Okoye, M'Bak, T'Chaka, and N'Jobu are so freaking amazing, Ross is great, realizing at some point Bilbo is interrogating Gollum and laughing out loud in the theatre at a strange time was a highlight, Wakanda as a whole... there's just a lot to like.

To like. I didn't love it like I know people do, but the same also goes for Doctor Strange and Thor Ragnarok. I like it well enough, but I don't revere it like I do some later movies in my list.

Also, who can forget Michael B. Jordan in this? HERE'S WALLACE!

Whiskey Nick
(No write-up.)

NBIceman
Admittedly, this movie probably feels worse to me at times than it actually is because it comes after a streak of really fantastic entries in the MCU and right before Infinity War, because its not like theres not good stuff here. The worldbuilding of Wakanda is great, everyone knows how good Kilmonger is, and the overall plot is nuanced enough that it at least feels like there was effort put in. But Eh. TChalla is a much less compelling character here than he was in Civil War, and the rest of the cast feels like its spread too thin for them to pick up the slack. Klaue is tons of fun, but hes barely involved. TChallas love interest is so forgettable and pointless that I dont even remember her name, which is exceedingly rare for me. The MCU is really driven by character journeys and character interactions, and those aspects are arguably the weakest parts of Black Panther. I dunno; its not bad, its just kinda boring. Feels like a Phase 2 film, and that sort of vibe just doesnt go very far at this point in the saga.

Snake5555555555
Its awesome to see an MCU film with tons of Black representation. And, this movie has some great characters. Chadwick Boseman and Michael B. Jordan deliver all-star performances here, and not just for an MCU film, plus Andy Serkis Klaue makes for a fun returning side-role as a great B-villain. Not to be outdone, Shuri and Martin Freeman are also personal stand-outs for me as well. Theres a great centralized story here where the culture of Wakanda is explored and fleshed-out but where this film loses me and itself is in its terrifying clinging to of cliches, clutching at the typical MCU plot point checklist afraid to make any wrong steps and very keen to make its casting almost the only reason to see this film. For whatever reason, the CGI in this film is especially atrocious, with the final fight especially taking out all of the charisma of its two leads in favor of two blobs fighting each other in candy-vomit land. Theres a supreme lack of stakes in this film and Black Panthers death fake-out is especially one huge eye roll. This couldve been an awesome film, but it settles for mediocrity at almost every step and I just cant see it ranking any higher.

TomNook
I liked this movie a little more when I first saw it, but I don't think it aged well, despite being only 3 years old. This far into the cycle of MCU, you need more things to stand out, which this really doesn't have. Most of the side characters are so tropey to the point it's hard to call them characters--and I realize these are comic book movies...but this film is so much more guilty of this than most of the films here.

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MetalmindStats
I personally found the complaints about Black Panthers lacking CG overblown, but conversely, the quieter portions of the movie didnt hit their marks for me in quite the way they did for many others. However, its depiction of Wakanda made for my favorite MCU setting, and Id also say the performances were effective all around; in particular, Shuri is one of my favorite MCU characters (shame about Letitia Wright).

Paratroopa1
This one is the dividing line between 'really good' and 'okay' on the list for me and it's a pretty thick line. I really like Black Panther, and I think the nomination for Best Oscar that it got was plenty deserved. Was it pandering? Oh yeah, obviously. Is it artsy enough? Well, it's got the melodrama and the social commentary and the generally serious tone and the interesting cinematography that the Academy Awards are looking for - as superhero movies go, this one is a little more 'grown up', so to speak, and I think these movies ought to be recognized for their achievements in entertainment, so why not? My only complaint about this film is that we don't really see enough of Wakanda - kind of like Asgard in the Thor movies, they never show us Wakanda as this truly lived-in place, we don't really see its cities and the way its people live, we mostly just see throne rooms and labs and the occasional outdoor shot. Killmonger's a great villain and him taking over the throne is a really awesome shift in the plot, but we never really get a feel for how his rule changes Wakanda - we don't see how peoples' lives change, we don't see the policies that he institutes, and that sort of takes the edge away. Black Panther feels like it's a movie that demands worldbuilding, and too often the worldbuilding just isn't there. But otherwise, it's really well done - the cinematography and soundtrack are a notch above most other MCU offerings and I was never bored by the plot. I couldn't rewatch it because it made me too sad. I think Chadwick Boseman was one of the best that the MCU had to offer, and it's criminal that he was taken from us.

Anagram
Am I the only person who just didnt like this movie? I wanted to see more of Wakanda. Show me what life is like there. We get one street, the castle, and a waterfall. I want to see a Wakandan school where the teacher is using holograms to show kids what the outside world is like, and a little girl raises her hand and points to the United States and asks is there anything interesting there and the teacher says no.

Inviso
Black Panther is a really well-made movie, and its one of the most serious and interesting concepts in the MCU. Killmonger is not the best villain in the franchise, but hes up there (for reasons beyond the fact that the MCU severely lacks good villains). Its always better when the villain has a reasonable motivation (or any motivation at all) beyond just a lust for power, because it adds a question of morality to the movie itself. Killmonger is extreme in his goals, but the basic concept behind his mindset is sound, as evidenced by the fact that TChalla himself eventually adopts some of his policies to expand Wakandas influence into the world. Even TChalla himself is the midst of an origin story that isnt an origin story. Hes trying to step up to the burden of being the king and having the whole country on his shoulders (along with the knowledge of his fathers own actions as king). That being said, I rank it lower just because its a bit TOO serious compared to some other films in the franchise, which made it a little less FUN than those other movies.

Lopen
So this one is a bit of a mixed bag for me. Black Panther is of course great here as he is in Civil War. Killmonger is great and a top MCU villain. Now that dynamic alone will carry a lot of the movie. But man, I find the scientist girl insufferably annoying and John Watson isn't really used too well here, and well Wakanda just isn't really all that interesting to me compared to most of the other settings/lore in the solo flicks-- it's just a little TOO good at being sciency. It's like a Mary Sue in civilization form. So the other problem is I think Killmonger gets his legs cut out from under him a bit too early I guess. It feels like he's just starting to get rolling and then boom it's over for him. Also this is the first movie where I realized just how much the MCU overuses the "hero fights an evil version of themselves!" I dunno. I'm probably more negative on this movie than a lot of people just because of how much good press it got-- this is an alright movie particularly for a solo MCU entry, but it's not a top tier MCU movie by any stretch.

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ZenOfThunder
I rewatched this one when Chadwick Boseman passed and I didn't remember liking it as much as I did the third time through. It's a very well built movie with likable characters and a cool setting that sometimes looks like a PS2 game. Makes sense as the A-Team was probably working on Infinity War at the time, but you can also tell how much love went into this.

PrinceKaro
The landmark movie that features the MCU's first black superhero who isn't a boring military douchebag with zero personality.
This film marks the real introduction of Wakanda, a confederacy of high tech african tribes (plus a bunch of grunting neanderthals in the mountains for some reason) who all live in secrecy in their moon-metal paradise that somehow nobody has found out about until this point. It is equal points stupid and charming and probably done as about as well as could have been in a serious superhero movie.
Suspension of disbelief aside, it is very easy to get caught up in the world of african atlantis where the new king T'Challa has to defend his nation and crown from a gangsta interloper who seeks to destroy Wakanda's very way of life.
It is all very compelling up until the ending where all of a sudden they want to try and make Killmonger a sympathetic character. Yes the same Killmonger who has been a janky wrestling heel for the whole movie. The sociopathic genocidal maniac whose rhetoric nearly started world war 3. That Killmonger.
Now there is nothing wrong with a bad guy being sympathetic, but that is clearly not what they were doing with Killmonger for three-fourths of the movie.
Killmonger's strength as a villain is one of comparison, a dark mirror of T'Challa that shows what could have been if he didnt have the fortitude of character to avoid going down the path of vengeance and hate. He is a character that bares some eerie (and assumedly intentional) parallels to Adolf Hitler. Then it is suddenly aww I'm sowwy poor baby you had a rough life so that's why you are a sadist who carves marks into your own skin for every person youve murdered so hey brother, lets watch the sunset together!
Black Panther the film may not be as radical an idea as his first appearance in the comics in the 1960s but it is still culturally important. While quality-wise it is certainly not best picture material, it still remains entertaining.
RIP Chadwick Boseman

BetrayedTangy
Ill admit it took me a couple of viewings to really appreciate Black Panther. Seeing it in theaters I was pretty disappointed, most of the action scenes felt pretty unspectacular for being this far in the MCU and the plot felt very messy with a lot of lore dumping and a ton of side characters to try and keep track of. However my last two issues ended up paying off, because once you understand it all its a really cool movie. Sure the action still isnt great, but TChalla trying to live up to his father, while still carving his own path and avoiding the same mistakes is awesome. My issue with the side characters still lingers a bit though, Klaue feels really wasted especially with how fun of a character he was, plus Everett Ross really had no business being this prominent in the plot. Like he was pretty lame in Civil War, so I really didnt care about him here. Regardless its still a pretty good movie and rest in peace Chadwick Boseman, you put in one helluva performance as King TChalla.

Corrik7
I think Black Panther is a good movie. But, I also find it rather generic also. Black Panther suffers from the being unkillable for the most part. Any time he takes too much damage he just explodes it back out. There lacks a lot of weight at times in this movie besides in the duel. Killmonger is a relatively good villain. The plot is also commendable as far as differing ideologies. I think this movie gets overrated a lot because it is the first African-American superhero movie. I think if you changed the skin color to all Caucasian people, a lot of the praise for this movie dissipates to a moreso generic film. That said, the movie is good. Just not the best thing ever many consider it.

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StifledSilence
Chadwick Bosemans passing leaves a HUGE hole in the MCU because his portrayal of Black Panther was, dare I say, perfect. I cant imagine anyone else in that role. That aside, this movie is a good time. Half parts of a tribal aesthetic and a high technology spy thriller, Black Panther keeps eyes glued to the screen the entire time. Additionally, Shuri quickly became one of my favorite MCU characters, and Michael B does not stand for basketball Jordan made for one of the series most compelling villains.

CoolCly
This movie has a lot of great things going on.
The women are great. Shuri is great as the tech wiz little sister, and suits up in her own combat style too. Okoye is imposing and skilled, and her conflict of what to do when her loyalty to TChalla is challenged by her loyalty to the country when Killmonger takes over. I think people love both Shuri and Okoye as breakout characters. But I love Nakia the most. Shes pretty much on the precipice of stepping up to become the next Black Panther herself in this movie, but decides that shes not meant for that destiny and ends up bringing the flower to TChalla. Considering where we are IRL.. I would love it if shes revisited as taking up that mantle.
MBaku is awesome. Its challenge day.
Killmonger is phenomenal. He gets a lot of credit as one of the best villains in the MCU and its well deserved. Hes dangerous and hes got a lot of personal stake with the characters. The only thing I dont like is how general his Im gonna send weapons and start a revolution! his plan in the end was but it was fine enough I guess, the movie didnt really need that to be fleshed out.
Andy Serkis is awesome. Hes fun and vicious and gets brutally taken out by a fellow villain which is always fun. Their partnership and eventual confrontation was thrilling.
I kinda dont like how powerful the Black Panthers gear is. Hes basically just invincible. I dont like it when the heroes are so powerful they arent even at risk of being hurt and thats where BP is at in that armour. The final fight where they cant really hurt eachother because of their dumb armour is resolved in a clever way with the tech that was disabling it requiring some thoughtful fighting, but I kinda had a hard time following that fight.
The movie also has the TChalla Problem as put forward by Marc Bernardin. The movie is called Black Panther but TChalla doesnt really have any particular motivation or goals in this movie hes just kind of there and reacting to everything happening and thats required of him, which is a bit of a shame. Its kind of okay because he had a lot of great character development in Civil War, but it feels a bit strange that hes not as much the focus in his own movie. The vision when he takes the flowers and sees his dad are nice though.
Overall, great movie! Thankfully, the movie was good enough to back up all the social acclaim it was getting.

XIII Rocks
The CGI is...really dodgy, especially the final Killmonger/Panther battle, and while that's a big complaint it's also the limit of my complaints (apart from smaller stuff like W'Kabi and Okoye's relationship being a nonfactor to the point you might have missed it entirely until the end, like why even include that, and some weird dialogue choices like Killmonger saying "this continent" twice, wtf?). I love the internal Wakandan politics that underpins it and the way the movie spends time exploring that - and then there's the larger message it has, which is clearly there but never gets in the way of being a superhero movie. That's the brilliance of it, that it manages to be so many things at once, and none of those things conflict woth each other. I also like the way it resisted making Boseman a quip machine like so many other MCU heroes. Some have said he's boring, but I don't think so. I think he's very clearly got an interesting "heavy is the head that wears the crown" thing going on and he has some sense of humour (particularly with Shuri) without being openly "funny" like Iron Man or Starlord, and the scene in the ancestral plane the second time is excellent (thanks also to the incredible, oscar-winning score, which obviously improves the whole movie but particularly lifts a few scenes). It manages to introduce a ton of characters with very few feeling short-changed; Okoye in particular is fantastic. There's this shot of her during the car chase in Korea, with the red dress billowing in the wind as she holds the spear thingy that makes her look completely unstoppable. And then there's Killmonger. Great villain, great motivations, a sense of ambiguity as to just how wrong he actually is, and his death scene (again, elevated by the outstanding score) nearly brought me to tears, which until that point had never happened in any of the MCU movies. Good shit.

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HanOfTheNekos
That was a very good movie. But I think it suffered for some of the reasons that Doctor Strange did.

I loved the adventures of Black Panther in Korea. I loved the characters. There were so many strong characters that were a delight to watch. Okoye, Shuri... Nakia was alright. M'Baku was the man. Killmonger was a freaking delight. Such a damn good villain. And the soundtrack was amazing... like, this and Thor: Ragnarok are the first two movies where I REALLY feel like I just love and want to listen to the soundtrack (outside of GotG but those are all licensed songs). Oh, and the action was cool, the effects were cool, the tech was cool, Wakanda was cool, Bucky was cool, etc.

But I did not much care for the main plot.

Black Panther becomes king. Cool!
Black Panther hunts down the man who killed a lot of his people. Cool!
Black Panther gets challenged out of nowhere by his cousin who has been missing forever and just showed up and was like "wassup" and won and got thrown off a waterfall. Um...
Black Panther's herbs that give powers were burned but luckily one was returned to him so he could recover from mortal wounds and go back to fight. Eh....
Black Panther wins the fight, Bilbo gets to shoot down things in a jet, Okoye and crew all kick ass, but she kicks her lover's ass the most... some of this was pretty good!
Black Panther kills his cousin without getting a chance to develop him into a different kind of character. Eh...

This was the story they wanted to tell, and I think they did everything they could to tell that story in a terrific manner. I just wasn't the biggest fan of the story.

MetalDK
A tad overrated, but its still damn good. Killmonger is definitely the best or 2nd best villain in the MCU. Easily the best of the 2nd tier.

Raka Putra
Man, the production design in this one is just unmatched. Wakanda is such an awesome, instantly iconic setting. The plot is basically The Lion King but it was delivered really well. Unfortunately it's marred by the lackluster final fight scene. Also RIP Chadwick Boseman. Wakanda forever!

ScepterOfLove
(No write-up.)

Johnbobb
Man what a cast. Put aside everything MCU about this, because its real appeal is more as a star-studded action film than a regular super hero movie. Excellent costume design, excellent performances across the board.

Mr Crispy
Wakanda still seems kind of phony/inauthentic to me, in the same ways that fictional African/native cultures in fiction tend to seem phony (just with space ships and lasers instead of magic). But it's still a colorful and visually interesting backdrop for the action that gives Black Panther a sense of identity standing out from generic superhero movies in generic cities.

While I didn't follow Chadwick Boseman's career, his premature death was a tragedy - dying right when he was starting to take off as a new idol for young people. Black Panther 2 was the only phase 4 movie I had any expectations for, and now I have very little faith that it would be any good without him.

Cybat
My biggest takeaway when walking out of the theater for the first time was that this movie reminded me of The Avengers in that it did a good job of giving almost every character in the cast a moment to show off their abilities. The difference between these two movies of course is that this movie also had to introduce and establish every single one of those characters from scratch before giving them their moment. The way this movie handles its cast is phenomenal, and many of them, especially Shuri and MBaku, are very memorable.
Unfortunately this does come at somewhat of a cost, since it makes TChalla himself feel a little neglected, especially considering how big of an impact he was able to make in Civil War in just a few scenes. And the big CGI fight scene during the climax was pretty bad. But as an introduction to a sub-franchise this movie does wonders. It is tragic that the franchise wont unfold the way anyone wanted it to, but I trust that it is in good hands.

Illuminatusbubu
While I think it is a really good movie, I think it is kind of overrated. I might have too much expectation going in though. I also dont like a token white character in a setting that dont really need him to be there.

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Maniac64
This movie is a visual masterpiece with an amazing design and style. Wakanda is so cool, everything involving Wakanda in this movie is great. Killmonger may be the best villain in all of Marvel and I am so sad they killed him, the battle of ideals between him and T'Challa is just great writing. The side characters also stand out here with a bunch of memorable new characters introduced, may even be the best overall cast of characters of any individual hero movie. M'Baku has no business being as amazing as he is. This movie is so rewatchable and just great from start to finish. The top 3 movies for me all stand head and shoulders above the rest.

Red13n
Best Popular Film for 2018. Like I do a few times in these movies, I cannot stress enough how much I enjoy being spared an origin story. While it does function as an introduction to Wakanda and the extent of their technology, being able to jump right in to a character having their powers is always a welcome touch in a world where superhero movies have long since been a dime a dozen. We're also given a villain with justifiable motivation and depth, something quite often missing in the MCU. Hard to leave this out, but Chadwick Boseman's death feels like it has left a giant hole in the MCU, it really felt like T'Challa was an obvious choice to be one of the more important characters going forward to replace some of the old guard.

Eddv
Hey it's a movie that tries things! Most of those things are REALLY stupid though. Carried by incredibly strong acting performances that make one of the worst scripts in the MCU almost sort of work.

Sheep007
I have mixed feelings on Black Panther, but the really good stuff outweighs the really bad, and by quite a lot. Lets start with the bad: the bit of the final fight scene in the field is utterly dreadful. There is nothing good about it, and the CGI is hideous (and its not great in a decent part of the train-line fight, either). Its not the funniest movie, and Shuri irritates me in general, but I think that might be because I dont find her funny and I dont particularly like her actress. Fortunately, thats about it. Next, the okay: most of the characters are fine, the plot in a vacuum is just okay, and I dont think it was as straight-up fun as the very highest movies on my ranking, although its still nearly in the top half. Now, the good, and theres plenty of it. The soundtrack and visuals are both gorgeous, with this probably being the strongest original soundtrack in the MCU (theres better soundtracks, but theyre mostly involving insert songs which werent just made for the movie). Wakanda looks great, and every area in the film has a specific aesthetic which isnt just bland, and thats something very few of the older MCU movies nail. The digital environments and costumes are wonderful, and I think that overall there was just a ton of love and care put into this movie, something you dont see or feel in a lot of my lower down movies (looking at you, Ant-Man 2). Despite me saying the characters were mostly fine, theres a couple of exceptions: TChalla is a phenomenal protagonist, and definitely the strongest from the MCU in just their first movie as the main. The other great character is Killmonger, who is the best villain of any MCU movie, and its not even a contest. Yep, I said it. Thanos is a great villain, dont get me wrong, but Killmonger is the best because hes horrible yet sympathetic. More importantly, he has a point, and a pretty damn good one. Its not just relevant in the movie, its incredibly relevant in reality and it changes the protagonist at the same time. The fact that Wakanda have power and have done nothing with it is ridiculous yet very possible, and the idea of using military means to liberate black people is understandable and even justifiable in a lot of ways (hell, the west have used liberation as an excuse to bomb the shit out of places for probably longer than anyone on B8 has been alive), yet still clearly in the wrong. I could go on for hours and hours about this, but its all backed up by a phenomenal performance from Michael B. Jordan, particularly in the ending. The fact that this movie was also made by a black director and with mostly black characters, as well as a plot directly tying into that rather than shying away from it, makes it all the better and even more culturally significant. Theres a lot more I have to say on the subject, but I think this writeup is already long enough, so Ill leave it with one more thing the shot of Killmonger walking up to the throne while the camera is upside down is probably the single best bit of camerawork in the MCU.

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Jesse Custer
If theres such a thing as a perfect MCU film, this is it. Wakanda was brought to life with a stunning sense of believability, depicted as a technological utopia, but also as a warning against isolationist nationalism. And the film doesnt back down from addressing difficult issues that most blockbuster movies shy away from, such as the moral expectations of privileged nations to help those less fortunate. In fact, those issues are seamlessly integrated with the story arcs for the hero and villain of the film (I put villain in quotes because Killmonger is presented as such a complex and understandable character that it hardly does him justice to simply label him the villain).

Beyond the excellent concept and scripting for the film, Black Panther excels in the acting performances of Michael B. Jordan as Killmonger (whos simultaneously detestable and likable) and, of course, the great Chadwick Boseman (who will be forever missed). Actually the entire cast is great, and even a secondary character, M'Baku, is one of my favorite characters in the MCU thanks to his depiction in this film.

While this is a rare comic book film with a sense of artistry rarely seen in the genre, the action and combat sequences are also fantastic. Its tough to even blink during each of the two ritual combat scenes, and even more traditional action scenes like the car chase seem fresh and exciting. Quite simply, Black Panther is a treat from start to finish, and is in my book, the best MCU movie ever made.

VengefulKaelee
A movie that stands apart from the vast majority of Marvel fare by virtue of its excellent, unique art design and probably the best single performance in the entire MCU by Michael B. Jordan, a villain who's so well-developed that not only does he completely take over the film, but you also really feel like he has a point at times. It's not a perfect movie by any means; it has some surprisingly bad CGI and though the late, great Chadwick Boseman was a phenomenal actor, his title character surprisingly doesn't get a whole lot of depth in the script compared to Killmonger. Overall, though, it's definitely one of my favorites, for its style and its interesting themes that are unlike any other installments in the franchise.

GavsEvans123
DC must have been furious when this came out. A few months earlier, Wonder Woman became the first female superhero movie of the modern era, the first good female superhero movie, and the first DC movie since the Dark Knight trilogy to be well received. All this together meant Wonder Woman became a bit of a pop-culture phenomenon, and the key was that it appealed to a previously untapped audience demographic. DC thought theyd finally gotten one over on Marvel only for Black Panther to come along and turn the cultural phenomenon factor up to 11.

Black Panther could have easily settled for having a mostly black cast, marketed itself as the first black superhero movie of the modern era and called it a day. Instead, it does something more interesting and embraces its blackness, tying it into the themes and storyline. Subjects such as tradition, heritage, overthrowing ones oppressors, and the hardships faced in disadvantaged black communities are touched on in meaningful ways. Its rare to see a film made for mass audiences to address topics in a way that holds such significance to a specific demographic, and the film is enriched for it. You could conceivably write an academic paper on this film, and Im sure someone more qualified than myself probably has.

Another thing the film has going for it is the setting of Wakanda itself. Here we have Marvels best worldbuilding, as were given a good look at Wakandas customs, hierarchy and government. The world is brought to life in a way that is like no other MCU locale. In addition, exposition is kept to a minimum, and a lot of this is simply shown to the viewer as other things are happening, which means the film avoids dragging as new concepts are explained. These elements add flavour, while also contributing to the films events, as Wakandas isolationist foreign policy indirectly leads to the films events, setting Killmonger onto his path. Speaking of Killmonger, is this film considered Michael B. Jordans atonement for Fant4stic? Hes another excellent villain, who has a sympathetic backstory, while still being very cool and ruthless, and his plan ties into those themes I mentioned earlier.

You know how sometimes in large stories with hundreds of characters, you latch onto one minor character for a reason you cant explain? MBaku is that character in the MCU for me. Ive always just liked him, and I hope he has a bigger role in a sequel.

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9. Black Panther
Total Score: 306

Jesse Custer 1
VengefulKaelee - 2
GavsEvans123 3
Maniac64 3
Red13n - 4
Eddv 5
Sheep007 5
HanOfTheNekos - 6
MetalDK 6
Raka Putra - 6
ScepterOfLove 6
Johnbobb 7
Mr Crispy - 7
Cybat - 8
Illuminatusbubu - 8
StifledSilence 8
CoolCly - 9
XIII Rocks - 9
ZenOfThunder 10
PrinceKaro 11
BetrayedTangy - 12
Corrik7 - 12
MetalmindStats 13
Paratroopa1 - 13
Anagram 14
Inviso 14
Lopen - 15
Mega Mana 15
Whiskey Nick 17
NBIceman - 19
Snake5555555555 19
TomNook - 19

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Mewtwo59 posted...

Hey, we found the one person who can stand Teruteru.

I mean, he's constantly clowned on and he's dead by the end of the first case. He's a perfect case one character in that regard.

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Through the compiling of the list, they kept going back and forth with each new addition. Homecoming eked it out at the last minute.

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Still can't believe it came down to a one-point difference between those two. And the wrong one won out ;_;

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OUTLIERS:

Eddv - 101
PrinceKaro - 83
Johnbobb - 77
BetrayedTangy - 69
VengefulKaelee - 60
Jesse Custer - 59
Paratroopa1 - 56
Mr Crispy - 54
TomNook - 54
Lopen - 53
ScepterOfLove - 52
StifledSilence - 51
Illuminatusbubu - 49
MetalmindStats - 49
GavsEvans123 - 46
HanOfTheNekos - 46
Inviso - 46
Raka Putra - 46
XIII Rocks - 46
Snake5555555555 - 45
Corrik7 - 43
Anagram - 40
Cybat - 40
Maniac64 - 37
Whiskey Nick - 35
CoolCly - 34
Mega Mana - 32
MetalDK - 30
NBIceman - 30
Red13n - 30
Sheep007 - 28
ZenOfThunder 20

Zen makes a big jump up to twenty with the loss of his number 1, yet is still comfortably in the lead for being the most basic of us all. A spot-on placement, however, has bumped Red into contention for second place not. Meanwhile, the top of the list remains unchanged as even a close to spot-on placement for Eddv still puts him as the first ranker over 100 points, while Karo and Johnbobb continue their duel for second place.

Spoiler for Number 9: It looks like Far From Home started a tidal wave, and were looking at another Phase 3 elimination.

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BetrayedTangy
Im gonna be honest, I dont get the appeal of Homecoming. Like the only thing that really stands out to me is Micheal Keaton, but honestly he gets so little screen time that half the time I forget hes in it. Everything else is just so paint by numbers it just fails to keep me invested in repeat viewings. Also does anybody else feel like Peter is a little too whiny in this movie? I get he was kinda like that at first in the comics, but he really got on my nerves here. Thankfully it's only in this movie, Tom Holland is great in all the other ones.

Johnbobb
Homecoming is overrated! It's not bad, but for a third reboot of the Spider-Man franchise, I just needed something different. I mean, we have a different villain, sure, but really this is as much a movie about Iron Man as it is about Spidey. The pieces are good, and as a first attempt, this would be solid. But it's a third attempt without me ever really feeling like it learned enough from the last five films.

PrinceKaro
So Tony Stark randomly shows up in Peter's bedroom knowing his secret identity and hustles him off to europe to fight people more powerful and experienced than him (See - Captain America: Mild Civil Disagreement) and he somehow doesnt die.
Tony then decides to take him on as his Padawan learner, and there are many many problems with this line of development. Chief of these is how weak and small-time it makes the character of Spider-Man seem, what should be a story of empowerment is now one about simping for the avengers. Our young hero should have room to make mistakes and grow without having Iron Dad come and yell at him constantly.
It just feels like a lot of the appeal of the character has been undermined for the sake of fanservice, and it really pains me to see him like this.
I found all the stupid teen drama segments incredibly boring. Aw man, doncha just hate when you accidentally ask the daughter of your archnemesis to the prom? A-hyuck!

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XIII Rocks
OK, I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to explain this right, but here we go. There's two main problems with the MCU Spidey movies - the first and most obvious is the over-reliance on Iron Man as a mentor. I love their relationship, but having both villains be an Iron Man creation really makes Spidey feel like almost an afterthought. And it's not like you need Iron Man to sell a Spider-Man movie. Everybody loves Spider-Man already.
The second problem is harder to express but allow me to show this clip from TASM2 to start with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNPy_CO4zqA
TASM isn't a very good movie, for a ton of reasons, but this opening makes Spider-Man, and a Spider-Man movie, feel like A BIG FUCKING DEAL, in the same way the Maguire movies did. I use TASM because it was easier for Maguire to feel like a big deal when there weren't as many superhero movies out there. TASM came post-MCU, post-market saturation, and still managed it (though to a lesser extent). Both MCU Spider-Man movies have none of that. It's Spider-Man - maybe the world's most popular superhero - but folded into the MCU style. It feels so disposable, and I don't want Spider-Man to feel disposable. It should be the biggest event they have, right next to Avengers movies. Holland is a good Spider-Man but I honestly think he's worse than both Garfield and Maguire and it's probably because he feels so easily...broken compared to the others. I almost feel like I can ignore MCU Spidey.
This movie is still good, otherwise it wouldn't be this high. Keaton Vulture is a top 5 MCU villain (Killmonger, Thanos, Loki, Vulture, Hela) and some of the action is solid, the humour is handled well and Zendaya steals the show. But I just can't love MCU Spidey as much as some people do. I see it all through this prism of plasticity.

Inviso
Tom Holland is a great Spider-Man. He manages to convey the dorkiness of a teenaged Peter Parker a lot better than Andrew Garfields laid-back slacker vibe ever could, but he also comes across as cocky and charismatic when in costume, unlike Toby MacGuires bland hero. That being said, that authenticity makes the firstlets say half of the film feel very awkward and almost cringeworthy. Its a good performance in that I really didnt like it, if that makes sense. But thats just a personal thing about how realistic teen drama is shitty and awkward by design, because thats what being a teenager is. All that being said, the movie had a nice through line of Peter wanting to prove himself and trying so hard that he wound up failing, only to rise and prove himself for real, without the safety net of Tony Stark having his back. The Vulture plot twist caught me completely off-guard, and everything from that first introduction to scene with Michael Keaton driving Peter to the danceit was all great. A perfect amount of tension that all culminated in Peter proving himself by breaking free of a collapsed warehouse to stop Vulture from stealing Avengers tech. That back half carried a LOT of weight for this film, and it was enjoyable in that regard for sure.

Jesse Custer
Homecoming was a fine movie without any significant flaws, but I wouldnt rank it among my favorite MCU movies. It felt too safe to me, like Peter was never in any real danger he wouldnt be able to overcome, with the inevitable guest appearance from Tony Stark at the end to tell Peter hes proven himself as a true hero. Its nothing we havent seen many times before in other movies.

Probably my favorite thing about Homecoming was Michael Keatons performance, although I feel the movie failed to utilize his full potential. The scene in the car when Vulture reveals he knows Peters secret and threatens him was the most gripping moment in the entire movie, but after that the movie fell back into safe and predictable territory again. Its never bad, but the movie could have been so much better if they simply took more chances with the script.

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Anagram
I couldnt stand Peter Parker in this movie. They go way too overboard with his whole put-upon wholesome teenager gag. I half-expected him to go GOSH at any moment. But I really like the Vulture, so eh?

Cybat
The MCU has been largely (shockingly) consistent in its casting choices the whole way through, but Tom Holland might be one of my favorites. In my opinion he fits both Peter Parker (as a high schooler) and Spider-Man perfectly, way more than his previous two counterparts did. He might be starting to get a little overexposed as an actor at this point, but based on interviews he seems to be super enthusiastic about the role so hopefully Sony and Disney can keep him for a long time.
As for the movie itself, its pretty good! The main reason it got this high is the reveal on prom night. Everything about that entire sequence was so well crafted that it really sucks you in in a way that bigger, action-ier surprises really cant. Michael Keaton is great for the whole movie of course but especially in that long car drive, when everyone is just waiting to see what happens. The final battle with Vulture and the plots reliance on Tony Starks involvement are detriments but, well, those two problems are nothing new for the MCU.

NBIceman
I guess its probably a tired talking point by now to say that Maguire was a good Peter Parker, Garfield was a good Spider-Man, and Holland is good for both, but it really is true. Now, that being said, Ive never been an especially big fan of the character, which I imagine is going to put me well below the average ranking for both of the SM entries in the franchise. I also, as a rule, dont care for high school as a setting very much (Im the only person I know that didnt like Freaks and Geeks). Those are personal hangups, though - I can recognize why everyone rates Homecoming so high. It does a fantastic job with the central conflicts of Peter Parker as a character, its got the best villain in the whole MCU outside of Thanos, its got Tony Stark for some extra charisma and star power, and its even pretty damn funny. So dont misunderstand me; were well into the section of my list where I can honestly say I love these movies a good deal. Were just also at the point where everything above this one has more personal resonance for me.

ScepterOfLove
(No write-up.)

VengefulKaelee
This one has slowly grown on me over time. I definitely prefer the sequel, but Tom Holland's Spider-Man is so innately charismatic (with great chemistry with the rest of the supporting cast at the high school), Marisa Tomei such an inspired choice for a different Aunt May, and Michael Keaton is so good as the villain, that I can't help but admire it.

Corrik7
This movie does a good job of creating a relatively down to earth spider-man movie. He is just another kid in school, and him having to deal with a lot of that regular ordinary day stuff is well done. It's Spider-Man's first solo film in the universe, and it is the only one that has to deal with any significant pressure from films before it. All in all, it is solid and holds up well.

Lopen
Strength of the acting really pulls this one ahead. Keaton is low-key awesome as vulture (he's SO THREATENING in the car scene) and ends up being one of the best villains in the MCU, and I really think all the acting is good here. I've heard there is too much Iron Man in this movie as a complaint and yeah maybe it kind of is a valid one but I ain't gonna complain about more Tony Stark and it makes this Spider-Man unique compared to the other ones we've seen on the screen. The plot is whatever but helps establish Spider-Man's personality and whatnot and doesn't drag. Not what I'd call absolute must see viewing but enjoyable.

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GavsEvans123
After his well-received appearance in Civil War, we didnt have to wait long for more Spider-Man. This one sets itself apart from previous films by having Peter Parker in high school (previous films that did this had him graduate early on). This gives us a new dynamic we havent seen in previous Spider-Man films, or elsewhere in the MCU, as the other heroes are all adults. It also staves off fears of repetition due to this being the sixth Spider-Man film in recent memory, with the third Spider-Man.

Peters friendships with Ned and Liz are heartwarming to see, even if his relationship with Liz ends in tragedy. At least Ned has Peters back as the guy in the chair. It would be nice if the guy in the chair became a permanent thing, but Far From Home didnt do it, so its probably too late now. MJ is kind of a jerk, though. Its not hard to see why she doesnt have any friends, with how aloof and snarky she is. I dont get the bait-and-switch with Marvel insisting that she is TOTALLY NOT MARY JANE, YOU GUYS! Why would the characters share initials without a deliberate invocation? At least Flash Thompson is meant to be seen as a jerk, if not a jock because jocks have now become extinct aside from 80s movies.

We have another excellent use of tension here, much like with Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Here, its in the scene where Toomes takes Peter and Liz to the school dance, and the two men gradually work out each others secret identities. The tension keeps building from as soon as Toomes answers the door, which is such a shocker you can almost hear the record needle scratch as the soundtrack cuts out. This is second only to Caesars first word in Rise of the Planet of the Apes for hearing cinema audiences audibly gasp and leading into the kind of oppressive silence where you can hear how quiet it is. Speaking of Toomes, hes another excellent villain, an intimidating but honourable foe with a cool design update for his flight suit to make it less goofy looking, and a sympathetic motive. Marvel and Sony made a point of using villains who hadnt appeared in previous Spider-Man films, and its much appreciated here.

I have to point out the continuity error while Im here. The film states that 8 years pass between the prologue, which takes place in the immediate aftermath of The Avengers, and the rest of the film, but The Avengers was set in 2012, and this film takes place two months after Civil War, placing it in 2016. This means 4 years have passed in-universe, not 8. Boy, I hope someone got fired for that blunder!

Red13n
Going to take this moment to say how glad I am that we're at a time where origin stories aren't necessary. The formula of giving us a look at a character in another film and then just jumping right in with them elsewhere is pretty fantastic. Homecoming also heavily serves as more development for Tony Stark, with Iron Man standalone movies long done at this point. We get to see him basically groom Peter to be, well, not him. The relationship works, it ends up building some of the best development of Phase 3. Vulture ends up one of the more compelling and memorable villains of the MCU, particularly in a characters more introductory movie, where too often our hero is forced to fight what is essentially their villainous counterpart. This is far from that formula. Also we made it an entire Spider-Man movie without having to hear that with great power comes great responsibility. Now lets just hope this franchise doesn't have to be rebooted again for a long time.

Mr Crispy
We didn't really need more Spiderman movies, but having a more low key friendly neighborhood Spiderman with goofy nerd humor wasn't a bad idea to put a different spin on things than past Spiderman movies and the rest of the MCU. Tony mentoring Peter is good. Vulture is good. I really respect him for sticking up for Peter and keeping his mouth shut when he was sent to prison. Overall Homecoming is pretty solid, and objectively I could see it a few places higher but it didn't quite click for me to justify putting it higher because of the teenage awkwardness (and maybe a little bit of fatigue with the franchise).

Whiskey Nick
(No write-up.)

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Mega Mana
First Scene That Comes to Mind: Peter and Liz get dropped off at homecoming

Tobey Maguire is an amazing Peter Parker, and a decent Spider-Man. Andrew Garfield is a great Spider-Man, but not much of a Parker. Tom Holland is both in spades and blends them so perfectly together into one cohesive whole. He got an incredible introduction in Civil War, getting about ten minutes to establish his home life (Aunt May, neighborhood, science & engineering love, sense of responsibility and fears and courage) and fighting prowess (throwing down with the Avengers, and highlighting his exuberance, youth, strategic mind, and respect), and here he is months later with his new suit, being a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, dealing with school and puberty, and a yen for getting back into Avengers-style action.

I love the school environment, I love his friends, I love everything going on with Keaton's Vulture, I love the Tony Stark father figure stuff, I love Aunt May, I love the new suit, I love friendly neighborhood Peter Parker at the bodega, I love Donald Glover, I love Nacho, I love the directions and flows of different choices being made influencing how the movie progresses, I love how Vulture and Spidey are sort of mirrored in using what they find in the refuse to do what they think is right for their families and how Stark/SHIELD affects them both very differently. I think it's just a great, fun movie with an absolutely amazing retooling of the Vulture.

At least there's no debate as to which is the best and which is the worst Spider-Man movie. (It's Spider-Verse and Amazing Spider-Man 2, respectively).
P.S. Also, first Pepper Potts sighting since Iron Man 3? Four years absence? That was low-key one of the biggest in-theater surprise moments of the MCU.

TomNook
Spider-Man and Tony Stark carrying a movie is going to lead to a fun time. Tom Holland does amazing as Peter Parker. Michael Keaton sells the villain well and has a bit more depth than many of the forgettable "BAD GUY SMAAAASH" Marvel villains. Well cast movie. It's Spider-Man...it's going to be good.

Eddv
The okay spideman movie. Carried by Michael Keaton's performance. Easily the worst of the major spider-men.

MetalDK
Having the villains in Homecoming, Ragnarok, Black Panther, and Infinity War definitely renewed my waning interest in the MCU. Keaton and the Vulture's story was the start.

Snake5555555555
In the context of the web-heads cinematic canon, Homecoming does whatever it can to erase the prior three films mistakes while coming at Parker from an angle up until then unexplored in film: how he actually fits in a larger cinematic universe. And the verdict is: extremely well actually. I actually underrated this film. This is a fantastic Spider-Man joint, managing to fit in everything that makes the comics an enduring cornerstone of pop culture: high school romance & drama; side characters that are fleshed out but dont steal the show, instead informing Peters character; a simply sensational villain with Vulture and even his crew given B-listers like Tinkerer and Shocker their time to shine; and of course, tons of creative web-slinging action. Having Peter taken under Tonys wing is by far one of the most interesting dynamics in the MCU, and some may complain its having Peter just be the next Iron Man instead of his own hero, but I dont really see that at all. If anything the film does everything it can to NOT have Peter become the next Stark showing its his strength and his strength alone that wins the day. I do get kind of annoyed that these MCU Spider-Man films always have to go on field trips when New York is such a wonderful spot for a Spidey film, but I digress. If you havent seen it in a while like me, you might be surprised at how well it actually holds up as not only a great MCU film, but probably one of the best Spider-Man films too.

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CoolCly
This is the best Spider-Man movie by far. Tom Holland is a phenomenal Peter Parker and a phenomenal Spider-Man.
His school feels fully lived in, with his good buddy Ned, his reimagined bully Flash, strange acquaintance MJ, his romantic interest Liz, the school principal thats related to a Howling Commando, the Captain America PSAs. its all so well put together. I love it all.
RDJ is in yet another movie, and this bothers a lot of people, but I think its awesome. Tony Stark has been established as such a cornerstone of the heroes, his charisma interacting with literally anybody, and the list of failures and character flaws hes piled up that he wouldnt want a protg to repeat makes him perfect for bringing in as the mentor. And its handled very well. Despite his strong influence on the movie, hes actually not in it very much. They just really use him to great effect. It seems like hes not listening or taking Peter seriously, but theres a lot of key moments when he pokes holes in Peters lies with facts that Peter told Happy earlier in the movie that show he really does take Peter seriously. The scene after the ferry where he comes out of the suit (the opposite of earlier in the movie where he sent an empty shell) when Peter thinks hes not really there is fantastic.
The suit Peter uses is kinda cool, but I do kind of dislike the idea of Peter having such a high tech suit so early in his career. But its used to great effect as a plot device to accelerate his capabilities and then have it taken away for the climax.
Ive seen people complain about the scene where Peter is trapped under rubble, and that its aping a similar scene from the comics that had way more stakes, since Aunt May was in mortal danger at the time and Peter had to pull through and power his way out, and those stakes were completely missing in this version. But I think thats really unfair to this version. Its very well set up, as this movie is centered around the idea that Peter REALLY wants to step up into the big leagues as an Avenger, not just be stuck with minor squabbles in the neighborhood. Thats what leads to friction between him and Tony, and gets the suit taken away. Tony wants Peter to recognize where hes at in his career and focus on the things around him and his life, which would be school and learning about his responsibilities, and just take advantage of being a kid still. Peter thinks hes a hero and ready to take on the world. When he gets pinned under all that rubble, and he cant get out, thats when it all starts to fall apart. He panics and screams out for help. Peter becomes just another kid. Its an incredibly humbling moment for him, and changes his perspective entirely. When he calms down and is able to refocus and get himself out, he comes out actually ready to do what he needs to do, and to make the choice he makes with Tony and Pepper at the end of the movie.
The Vulture is obviously fantastic. Hes great at showing the impact Avenger events can have on normal people, and though hes definitely villainous and goes beyond just being a guy looking out for his crew and family, he really does care about the people around him. The scene when he opens the door and meets Peter is phenomenal, and the scene in the car is god tier.
This is a GREAT movie and I love it.

Maniac64
Best Spider-man movie ever. Finally a character that felt like a young funy spider-man for me. The side characters are strong, the villain is done really well. Just a great Spider-man movie that really made up for the failed Garfield reboot.

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Paratroopa1
Tension isn't a superhero punching a bad guy and getting punched by a bad guy until he outpunches the bad guy. Tension isn't a superhero facing a life or death situation and escaping at the last moment. Tension is Peter Parker, in the back of his girlfriend's crime boss dad's car, as he slowly pieces together Peter's identity as he digs himself more and more into a hole. The car scene is my favorite scene in the entire MCU, #1 ahead of any other scene - I think about it all the damn time. There are exciting scenes in the MCU, but this is the only one that's like, lump in my throat, unconsciously gripping the edge of my seat exciting. I've never really been a Spider-Man fan, and I felt like because he was always so popular, I was never going to really be able to appreciate him, but I was so wrong - this movie made me a fan. I love the smaller scope of this movie after all the big, dumb, overwrought plots in the other films. I love how lighthearted and feel good it is. I love the cast, I love the writing, but goddamn I love that car scene. Best villain in the MCU, bar none, even Thanos - Michael Keaton delivers a great performance as both a scary crime lord and a scary dad. That twist might literally be the only one I didn't see coming in the entire MCU - maybe I was dumb for not predicting it, but I literally said 'oh shit' out loud at the reveal.

Raka Putra
Ah yes, Tom Holland's Spider-Man. It was refreshing to have an MCU movie with a younger protagonist. The movie has that teen energy to it that, for me, made it easier to enjoy. Also that conversation in the car between Peter and the Vulture is muah *chef's kiss*. A great movie.

Sheep007
So, the third live-action Spiderman reboot, eh? I grew up with the Raimi movies (Im young for B8, okay?), and while I love them, it wasnt the peak of cinema. This is a different take on Peter Parker, and while its not exactly what I want, Tom Holland absolutely nails the humour, and its just a funny movie in general (Jacob Batalons delivery as Ned is the best). It has a weird high school 90s romcom vibe going on in parts, and it feels low-stakes in general, which is exactly what Spiderman needs compared to the existential or political threats of a lot of the MCU. Michael Keaton as the Vulture is phenomenal, and the scene where Peter realises his identity is probably the most painfully tense in the entire MCU. On the whole, the action is fine if not great, but where it really shines is Peter and his interactions with just about everyone (except Liz, who is a boring romantic interest). Hell, his interactions with random people like Donald Glover and the strangers on the street are highlights, as well as Happy. Tony in particular deserves special mention, for having the father/son dynamic with Peter without making it all about him. Overall, its a really fun and enjoyable movie with some great moments and a top-tier villain, which is all anyone is asking from a good Spiderman movie. Homecoming also has my favourite post-credits scene of all. Unfortunately, Spiderverse blows it (and everything on this ranking) out of the water as a movie (and probably postcredits too), but that doesnt make this one any worse.

StifledSilence
Now THIS is how you introduce a new character into the MCU. The first movies for Cap, Iron Man, and Thor were fine, but their best work was certainly later on. Homecoming, however, starts Spider-Man off with a bang. Easily one of the most entertaining MCU movies, it established Tom Holland as a top MCU star, and also an outstanding supporting cast into the mix. Michael Keaton, in particular, killed it as Vulture, expertly showing a duality in his relationship with Peter. Hes a fatherly presence that doesnt want to hurt Peter, but is also a very intimidating presence that will hurt Peter if necessary. It properly sows the seeds for what I think will be a return for Vulture in future installments.

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ZenOfThunder
I love Spider-Man, this is on par with Spider-Man 2 for me

HanOfTheNekos
What a damn good movie. Excellent soundtrack. Love the credits style.

So I'm a huge Spidey fan. He's my favorite. I've always been keyed in on him since the early cartoon days when I was a child. One of my favorite days was when I was at Universal Islands of Adventure and rode the Spider-Man ride 8 times in a row. Nothing beats Spidey. Best cast of villains (Batman is the only one who competes there). Best personality.

And this movie just nailed it in terms of finding a good Peter and a good Spidey. That was always the issue with Macguire and then Garfield. Good Peter, good Spidey, but neither was both.

I love the modern, fresh take on Spidey. I love his wit. I love almost everything they did with him. SJW MJ is a hot take on the character, so we'll see where that goes. Incorporating Ned, doing him as the Miles Morales sidekick version was pretty solid. Vulture was absolutely amazing and I'm excited to see Shocker return in every single movie because people just don't care enough about him to lock him down.

The humor was top-notch. They really nailed Spidey in combat, which is such an important part of the character and didn't disappoint in any way. Peter himself has room to grow. Karen is ok. Is she an illegal AI? I want to know these things.

I don't think I'll ever be truly happy unless Spidey meets Coulson. I know that won't happen, but Coulson is such a fanboy for heroes... Peter would be such a fanboy for Coulson. It'd be the best reversal.

Spider-Man: Homecoming just makes me happy. Out of all of the Marvel movies, this one just makes me feel like a kid again. And it gives Tony Stark some good development again... keeps his character alive. And Happy!

I love that Happy literally was reading everything Peter sent to him. Making little comments about "the notes you leave around" showed that he really did care. And same for Tony - they cared the whole time.

Liz was cool I guess. A good way for them to leave MJ development until later. Personally though, I wouldn't mind if they went Ultimate-esque and made a Peter/MJ/Gwen love triangle. Obviously with Gwen as Ghost Spider.

I'm just really excited for where this series is going.

To conclude, this movie did just about everything right. They skipped over the origin story that we didn't need to see, but provided a fresh take on Peter starting out as a hero. He didn't even win the climactic fight through fighting! They cast him extraordinarily well. They gave him a good attachment to the actual Avengers, without making him instantly part of the team or just not. Spidey in combat was top tier, so he doesn't have to grow into that phase, which is so needed, I mean come on, that's the main reason to watch Spider-Man anyway.

Vulture was a good pick for the villain - focus on all the guys we didn't get to see in the Raimi movies. Give us Gargan again. Give us the Rhino. Give me some CARNAGE. And of course, the more modern characters would be great to include... Gwen's reboots have been well-received. I'd love for her to make an appearance in the MCU... even as one of Peter's classmates who oops is actually Gwenpool or something. Spider version would be interesting, but too similar to Spider-Man that it would be odd. Maybe make her an accidental creation of Peter's... but I digress, I'm digging too deep into what-ifs.

Anyway, I love this movie and I'm glad Marvel and Sony could work out a deal.

Illuminatusbubu
At last, a Spider-Man movie that I had always wanted. A Spider-Man who is really an insecure teenager instead of an unlikable a**h*** in the previous version.

MetalmindStats
Freed of the burden of living up to audiences expectations for a Spider-Man origin story, Homecoming gets to be its own movie, feeling as simultaneously fresh and familiar as its Peter Parker himself. With that comes a cleverly plot-integrated and generally rare good MCU villain in the Vulture, and Homecoming also gets to add extra layers to Tony Starks character and franchise-wide role along the way.

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10. Spider-Man: Homecoming
Total Score: 312

ZenOfThunder 1
HanOfTheNekos 4
Illuminatusbubu - 4
MetalmindStats 4
Paratroopa1 - 4
Raka Putra - 5
Sheep007 - 6
StifledSilence 6
CoolCly - 7
Maniac64 - 7
Mega Mana 7
TomNook - 7
Eddv - 8
MetalDK 8
Snake5555555555 - 9
GavsEvans123 10
Red13n - 10
Mr Crispy - 11
Whiskey Nick 11
Anagram 12
Cybat 12
NBIceman - 12
ScepterOfLove 12
VengefulKaelee - 12
Corrik7 13
Lopen - 13
XIII Rocks 14
Inviso 16
Jesse Custer 16
BetrayedTangy - 17
Johnbobb 17
PrinceKaro - 17

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DR2 Ranking (Added to my previous DR1 ranking):

1. Aoi Asahina
2. Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu
3. Sakura Ogami
4. Sonia Nevermind
5. Celestia Ludenberg
6. Kyoko Kirigiri
7. Sayaka Maizono
8. Gundham Tanaka
9. Peko Pekoyama
10. Chiaki Nanami (based SOLELY off the game and not the anime, otherwise she'd be much higher...only character where that's the case)
11. Ibuki Mioda
12. Chihiro Fujisaki
13. Ultimate Imposter
14. Byakuya Togami
15. Toko Fukawa
16. Mikan Tsumiki
17. Hajime Hinata
18. Teruteru Hanamura
19. Mondo Owada
20. Junko Enoshima
21. Nekomaru Nidai
22. Kiyotaka Ishimaru
23. Mukuro Ikusaba
24. Makoto Naegi
25. Yasuhiro Hagakure
26. Mahiru Koizumi
27. Leon Kuwata
28. Akane Owari
29. Kazuichi Soda
30. Hifumi Yamada
31. Hiyoko Saionji
32. Nagito Komaeda

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KamikazePotato posted...

Not a huge fan of 2-6 but 2-5 is aces

Nagito hard carries DR2

He carries it alright. Big part of why the game is inferior to DR1 and ESPECIALLY DR3.

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2-5 is the best case from DR2, but it's not better than 1-4.

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I've said it before, I'll say it again: DR2's individual cast members are more interesting (whether in a good or bad way), but DR1's cast feels more cohesive as a unit, and their interpersonal relationships feel more important.

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Did they prove perjury? I thought Bill Clinton worded his answers specifically to be truthful, while masking reality?

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Paratroopa1 posted...

I admit I'm a little surprised at how high FFH ranks in some peoples' rankings - it was a fun movie but kinda weirdly forgettable for me? And I don't really remember anyone talking about it at the time. I don't have a problem with it but I am surprised, since I liked Homecoming a lot more.

FFH had the misfortune of being immediately after Endgame, so it's hard to stand out unless you're making a conscious effort to ranking the movies on their individual merits.

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I'm sad that FFH didn't make the top ten. It was so close with that trio of 313, 312 and 306 throughout the whole compilation of the list, and I knew one of the three wouldn't make the top ten, and it's the one I ranked in third place.

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Honestly, what makes 1-3 so bad for me is just how GOOFY it is. Like, obviously the whole conceit of the franchise is goofy, but at least there's a certain degree of things being grounded in reality across 1-1, 1-2, 1-4, 1-5, and 1-6. 1-3 just decides "let's throw in random Gundams (no relation) for no reason, along with a weird subplot of Hifumi and Taka fighting over a computer waifu/husbando".

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The only case in the franchise worse than 2-3...is 1-3 >_>

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Ah yes, going into the top ten.

1. ???
2. ???
3. Spider-Man: Far From Home
4. ???
5. ???
6. ???
7. ???
8. ???
9. Doctor Strange
10. Ant-Man and the Wasp
11. Iron Man 3
12. Iron Man
13. Ant-Man
14. ???
15. Captain America: The First Avenger
16. ???
17. Thor: The Dark World
18. Iron Man 2
19. Thor
20. ???
21. Captain Marvel
22. Avengers: Age of Ultron
23. The Incredible Hulk

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This leaves us our top ten!

Marvel's The Avengers
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Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy
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Captain America: Civil War
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Thor: Ragnarok
Black Panther
Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Endgame

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OUTLIERS:

Eddv - 99
PrinceKaro - 76
Johnbobb - 70
BetrayedTangy - 62
VengefulKaelee - 58
Jesse Custer - 53
Mr Crispy - 53
TomNook - 51
Lopen - 50
Paratroopa1 - 50
ScepterOfLove - 50
StifledSilence - 47
GavsEvans123 - 46
Snake5555555555 - 44
Illuminatusbubu - 43
MetalmindStats - 43
XIII Rocks - 42
Raka Putra - 41
Corrik7 - 40
HanOfTheNekos - 40
Inviso - 40
Anagram - 38
Cybat - 38
Maniac64 - 34
Whiskey Nick - 34
CoolCly - 31
Red13n - 30
Mega Mana - 29
MetalDK - 28
NBIceman - 28
Sheep007 - 24
ZenOfThunder 11

Eddv falls one point shy of being the first person to crack the three-digit mark (staving off such a dubious distinction just before we reach the top ten.) Meanwhile, Zen finally cracks 10, although he retains a commanding lead over the rest of the field still.

Spoiler for #10: The top ten features a single Phase 1 film, two Phase 2 films, and seven Phase 3 films, so it looks like were kicking things off by eliminating one of the Phase 3s.

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Corrik7
This is where we start to suffer some and start to straddle the line of whether a movie was good or not. This movie is fine, but the plot for Mysterio was very weak and kind of a cop out. Marvel has this thing where they like to butcher their villains and this one is no different also. Sure the idea was novel, but in the end, it is just like... why? This movie the Tony Stark inventions on the suit tend to start to overshadow Spider-Man himself also. Definitely not the most welcome change.

Eddv
The much much worse spiderman movie

PrinceKaro
The second of the Nickelodeon Spider-Man movies has the kids sent on an extensive school trip to europe and holy hell just what kind of school is this is it built on top of a diamond mine or something.
After ruining the character of Spider-Man in the first movie, the sequel follows this up by ruining the character of Nick Fury by making him an imbecile who is so obsessed with trying to recruit Peter that he kidnaps a whole class of children and puts them all in mortal peril multiple times. A hundred foot tall multiversal fire giant that can consume the entire planet? Nah, that's not serious enough to bother Captain Marvel, lets get help from the teenager who can shoot silly string from his hands.
Yeah I know it is not 'really' Fury in the movie, but the post credits idiocy somehow only makes things worse and just puts an emphatic cap on a movie that seems written by internet trolls.
On the villain side this film introduces the iconic Mysterio character to the MCU, only here he uses swarms of drones to make his illusion seem real because that is not totally fucking stupid.
Mysterio works best as being used on a personal level, rather than doing this kind of godzilla shit. Indeed, the best parts of the movie are where he has to fight one-on-one with Peter.
Mysterio's master plan is so idiotic that it could be beaten by someone with a pair of infrared goggles. Nobody thinks of running any sort of scanning whatsoever on these monsters. Nobody questions the thousands of rounds of drone ammunition that are inevitably littered around the attack sites.
The heroes do next to nothing making them deserving of a victory, they really are only able to beat Mysterio thanks to a complete accident giving them insight into his subterfuge. Spider-Man has his spider sense conveniently disabled for most of the film for reasons not explained, and every character has their common sense disabled for all of it. Even Tony Stark is not safe from this in his grave, as they have him leave an advanced suite of murder drones in the hands of a highschooler because that sure is a good idea.
Just take a pass on this mediocre piece of MCU fanfiction and pretend phase 3 ended with Endgame.

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Paratroopa1
Uhhh... I wasn't able to rewatch this one because it's not on Disney+, so I only have my first viewing in theaters to go by, and even though it's the most recent MCU film I barely remember it! I remember enjoying it, because MCU Spider-Man is great. Uhhh... Mysterio was fun? I like all the post-Endgame references, it's fun that they're acknowledging the world's post-snap problems. Peter is sort of an idiot in this movie, the fact that Tony Stark gave him some kind of weapon that's capable of killing anyone in a moment's notice is really weird and kind of undermines his character arc, and the whole fake multiverse plot is sort of a weird way to pull the rug out from under the audience, so I found this movie kind of weird, but still, Spider-Man is great so this movie succeeds anyway. I don't remember this movie very well but I'm sure I'll probably enjoy it and be annoyed by the same things on my second watch.

XIII Rocks
I have the same two problems with both Spider-Man movies, even though Homecoming is better on the whole, so I'll save that for the Homecoming writeup (assuming Homecoming finishes higher, which I guess isn't guaranteed). So here I'll focus solely FFH-only stuff: The sequence where Mysterio screws with Spider-Man is fantastic, a feast of clever, screwy CGI and the ultimate realisation of Mysterio on film. Mysterio himself is in the upper tier of MCU villains, with Gyllenhaal clearly having a blast (FIRE! ALL! THE DRONES! NOOOW!). Happy and Fury's inclusion didn't add a whole lot to me apart from to add MCU connectivity, and to set up the post-credits scene. I'm also less of a fan of MJ in this movie - I get that she's becoming softer towards Peter, but she's hilariously edgy in the first movie and she loses some of that here. But it's still fun - good effects, good spider-powers, and the sequence where Spidey dodges the drones near the end is some of the best Spider-Man swinging in any of the movies.

Anagram
Its hilarious how we cant get away from Tony Stark even after hes dead. The guy just cannot stop creating supervillains, he created at least four on his own, and thats not counting the ones his father created. I hope his daughter creates a few, too.

Mr Crispy
Homecoming was a Spiderman film with Iron Man in it. Far From Home is an Iron Man film with Spiderman in it.

Another victim of the sequel losing a lot of what made the original charming by trying to expand the scope and raise the stakes. The whole point of Homecoming was to be a low level, friendly neighborhood Spiderman with a secret identity fighting lower level threats to contrast with the rest of the Avengers being jet setting celebrities saving the world. Far From Home has Peter travelling all over Europe trying to stop "an Avengers level threat". Instead of Peter trying to do the right thing despite it having a negative effect on his personal life, Far From Home is Peter trying to grow as a person trying to stop a villain/problem he's more directly responsible for causing.

Well, the callbacks to the first Iron Man like the "box of scraps" line and the suit design scene are still nice, and Mysterio twist works out better than the Mandarin. Though Beck probably should have been a little less unhinged or treated his team better. And I can't help but think that trying to use technology and holograms to fake big magical fights is less plausible than actual magic. Off the cuff or improvised scenes seem a bit impossible when you also show that it takes a big team years of planning to do the special effects.

The basic concept behind the plot also gets kind of shaky when you stop to think about it more. Tony built yet another drone army to help fight against Thanos, but didn't actually use it in either fight? Or he decided to build it after Thor killed Thanos and he was retired, or at the same time that he was busy helping build the time machine? And Tony planning for Peter to be his successor, when Peter was temporarily dead and Tony wasn't expecting to die. Beck was obsessed with becoming more famous than Tony, but didn't do anything while Tony was retired? Beck knew enough about Tony seeing Peter as a son and successor to create an elaborate ruse where he hides his true personality and pretends to be a father figure to Peter in hopes that he would willingly give up control of the drone army? No wonder they wanted to stick in Skrulls, so they could just wave away questions with "a Skrull did it".

The tag was legitimately great. Got me excited for the next film, and it buoyed up Far From Home in my ranking a bit. (The Secret Invasion tag was zzz and like I already said, felt like a way to wave away deeper scrutiny)

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Snake5555555555
Maybe its the receny bias talking, maybe its the awesome Mysterio illusion scene, but this is just a god damn awesome Spider-Man movie. The process of transforming Peter Parker into the universes next Iron Man is a contentious one, but even with a stupid glasses side-plot and shoehorning SHIELD stuff into Spidey this still feels like a Spider-Man film through and through. Every inch of Hollands performace is pitch-perfect Spidey: sense of responsibility, nerdy awkwardness juxtaposed with his under-the-suit abilities, his unsureness in the shadow of Stark. The character is compelling, and having Mysterio to hold up a mirror to Spideys darkest personality aspects really brings it all together in the end. Plus, this has one of the best cliff-hangers/end scenes in the whole MCU.

Jesse Custer
Far From Home felt like a significant upgrade from Homecoming. Peters developing relationship with MJ was handled really well, the movie had a perfect blend of humor, action, and drama, and Jake Gyllenhaal as Mysterio was one of the best villains in the MCU. The movie also had a timely message about the public being misled by optics, although I suspect everyone will come away from this movie feeling validated about their preexisting beliefs, no matter how detached from reality those beliefs might be. Finally, the movie ended with a fantastic cliffhanger that left me eager to see what happens next for Spider-Man in the MCU (for however long hes allowed to remain a part of it).

Red13n
Can I take a moment to say how dismayed I am with all the marbles they have put on Spider-Man in the MCU? With the precarious nature of the contract with Sony, this movie essentially took the keys to the kingdom from Tony Stark and handed them to Spider-Man. If the relationship with Sony ever leads to irreconcilable diferences, which it already almost did once, all the groundwork laid out in this movie could backfire spectacularly. As for this movie, we get the return of our most recurring MCU villain: random people spurned by Tony Stark. The movie is at its best when it does play up the conclusion of Tony's story, essentially seeing Peter take the reins with all of his gadgetry at the end. But it also has some really bad missteps, with the Spider-sense I guess not working for some reason as a plot point. This is completely glossed over, and then it magically works at the end. There's no reason given for this, its just shoehorned in poorly. Also oddly Spider-Man having a secret identity was unique in the MCU, and they decided to throw that away for some reason at the end. This is needlessly future-limiting. Hell the whole sequence at the end makes the movie a lot more messy for reasons I can't quite contemplate.

Whiskey Nick
(No write-up.)

MetalDK
Liked the Peter/MJ scenes, thought a lot of the movie was meh though. Gyllenhaal did well as Mysterio.

NBIceman
Wouldnt surprise me if Im at least close to being the low man on this one. Its weird - I definitely feel like I should like Far From Home more than I do. But theres something that just feels off about it. A lot of the dialogue is clunky. Some parts of the story seem overly contrived. It doesnt quite seem to have the emotion one would expect from a film thats chiefly concerned with moving past a goodbye to the MCUs first hero. Its a shame, because Gyllenhaal is awesome as Mysterio and I think his illusions are all done pretty well - hes one of the better one-off villains in the franchise. Hollands still great, too, and his chemistry with Zendaya makes for an actual well-done high school romance that feels suitably awkward and cute without being cringy. And I appreciate the easter eggs they throw in. But as a complete product, it just doesnt quite connect. I dont know. Could be that my investment with the MCU topped out at Endgame and Im just not completely ready to move on to the next saga yet.

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Sheep007
Far From Home is such a strange-feeling addition to the MCU, to me. Its post-Infinity War, so has to spend time explaining all that, but most of the characters are the same age. Some of the jokes are just off to me Peter almost killing his classmates, cool. I dunno, I dont really like the whole wacky misunderstanding thing, and Far From Home does it a couple times. The fight scenes are pretty clever and I absolutely love the illusion sequences, but something feels off. Maybe its that Mysterio goes from charming and likeable to a petty little bitch with no real depth, maybe its that the movie is just overall a bit less funny and tense than its predecessor, even though theres definitely enough twists. Dont get me wrong, its still fun, the action is decent and Tom Holland and Zendaya are both good actors and have chemistry, but its stuck at fun movie with some wit and twists for me. The end credits are both interesting, and I think Peters identity being revealed was something that interested me more than the events of the rest of the film.

Lopen
I friggin love Mysterio and this movie does him as well as I could have hoped for. The casting for the guy is fantastic and the fight scene where Spidey is hallucinating for like 2 minutes straight is just so good. My only real problem with the movie is it is too heavily relying on the continuity of the MCU-- like if you haven't seen Infinity War it spoils a lot of it and I don't think it really explains what happens in Infinity War well enough that it works as a stand alone film. This is the weight of the MCU showing itself and it's in a way that kinda turns me off the franchise a bit-- you've got movies like The Avengers that someone can just watch alone but it's ENHANCED by seeing the others, and then movies like this one where it's required viewing.

Mega Mana
First Scene That Comes to Mind: Night Monkey and the ferris wheel

Far From Home is so much fun. It's one big post-dust vacation breather, except the breather involves everytnhing almost going completely bad. There are so many fun twists and turns and reveals. While Mysterio is the obvious bad guy to anyone who's ever read a Spider-Man comic or watched a Spider-Man cartoon, Jake Gyllenhaal's protrayal as the fervent mentor hero for Spider-Man, giving him a new father figure to latch to after Uncle Ben and Tony Stark, is so earnest and good that the reveal at the restaurant with everything dropping out around him is so perfectly done. There are gripes that it's more Stark influencing things. Well. Yes. This is the movieverse. The Starks have been involved in things since World War II with Captain America. Ant-Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, and even Black Panther have major worldbuilding elements that involve either the Starks or major corporate weapons technology preservation (away from the Starks). That's a shared universe with a camera-ready billionaire playboy genius philanthropist. There's also the reveal to MJ of Spider-Man's identity which was well done and funny, the Nick Fury/Hill reveal which makes Mysterio work even better (because Fury would've so caught on from the outset and not been blindsided), and then that very final scene with a beautiful, exciting, horrific return.

Far From Home is a great ride. It's fun with a lot of really quality moments and great character beats. The Stark glasses stuff is meh, as well as the classmate hot for MJ, and the final showdown had a few too many moving parts, but everything else worked for me. I quite enjoyed the quiet storyline of Flash Thompson's lonely want for attention from his parents. The first fight against Mysterio was, in my opinion, more trippy and mindbending than anything in Doctor Strange. Happy Hogan was excellent in this movie, and I loved Favreau watching Holland work on a new suit. Like, there is so much world that was built that it pays small tributes too without going, 'Hey remember this? Hey remember?' And the school class trip just going off-the-rails from the outset was a lot of fun. I enjoy his teachers.

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ZenOfThunder
Spider-Man is in this. Mysterio is also in this and there's some really great callbacks to other MCU stuff. Great little cherry on top to end the Infinity Saga. I would definitely kiss Jake Gyllenhall if given the chance..

Cybat
Mysterio was always one of my favorite Spider-Man villains but I never expected to see him in a live-action movie like this. I was a little skeptical, but they knocked it out of the park in my opinion. This movie reaches this spot on the list almost entirely because of Jake Gyllenhaals performance and the absolutely spectacular illusion sequence. Watching that took me straight back to being a kid watching the cartoon, in the best possible way. Also, the passing the torch scene with Happy on the jet was very well done and heartfelt in a franchise with not a huge number of heartfelt moments. And finally the Skrull reveal in the stinger was a great surprise and really intriguing for what is to come in Phase 4.
I do take issue with some stuff about how the blip was handled, and also E.D.I.T.H. was a very silly plot device, but overall this movie just hit the spot for me. And come on, they brought back J.K. Simmons!

MetalmindStats
As far as iterative MCU sequels content to follow in the footsteps of their forebears where the getting is good go, Far From Home does a great job preserving Homecomings appeal. Its enough to swing it a notch above the average MCU movie and another few notches above the average blockbuster.

CoolCly
This movie is a lot of fun. Its got a lot of fun school trip elements, and the I really enjoy everything about the Peter / MJ relationship. Its great stuff.
Mysterio was awesome. Its unfortunate that it was obvious to all of us going in that he was going to turn out bad, but the way he draws Peter in is so slick, and its really triumphant when he reveals hes a bad guy after getting the glasses.
The technology for holograms is pretty cool, but I kinda felt like they over did it later on when it could seemingly do anything all the time and extent of destruction really went way too far, when you consider that this is all Tonys fault for making the system and Peters for giving up the glasses to Mysterio. I think that theres only so far you can stretch the damage heroes cause before they are no longer really being heroic when they step up to stop the bad guy
The impact of Endgame on the world isnt really explored too much here, but the fallout of Tony dying on Peter and Happy is really good, and I love the scene where Happy shows up with the jet when Peter asks for help and they talk.
The illusions Peter fights through when he goes to confront Mysterio is a god tier scene.
I called that Fury was not actually Fury when the trailers first came out. But I predicted that he was the Chameleon, so the skrulls were a fun twist. They werent actually malevolent like I expected.
Overall, this is a great movie. The issues Peter deals with resulting from Tonys death, and his relationship with MJ, are great. Mysterio is awesome and results in a lot of great action and challenges for Peter to overcome.

Maniac64
I am so glad that this Spider-man movie was able to continue the strong trend of the first. Mysterio was a risky choice for a villain (as was Vulture really) but they pulled it off so well. Ned continues to be an excellent side character for Peter, the characters continue to be strong. We got some standard Spidey drama without it weighing everything down. MJ figuring out his identity on her own was great. And once again the MCU takes a big chance at the end, with Mysterio getting a final victory by exposing Peter's identity. I'm really curious where that will lead.

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GavsEvans123
The last film of the MCU to date serves as a breather from the climactic events of Infinity War and Endgame. Spider-Man needs a break just as much as the rest of us do, as hes going on a school trip. Naturally, this is still a superhero film, so he wont get to do too much relaxing.

Something this does well is develop several secondary characters from the previous film with more significant roles. The most important of these is MJ, who is STILL TOTALLY NOT MARY JANE, SERIOUSLY, WHY WOULD YOU EVEN THINK THAT? Peter now has a crush on her, and a major plot thread involves him planning to confess his feelings to her. This would have been far-fetched in the first film, when she mostly stood on the sidelines with some haughty remark along the lines of Everyones stupid but me, but its more believable now that she receives more focus, and with it, some much-needed character development. Betty joins the main cast and becomes Neds girlfriend, with the two forming a hilarious sickeningly sweet couple. Flash also gets character development, slightly toning down his antagonism towards Peter and portraying him as having a compulsive need to be the centre of attention due to emotional neglect. Finally, Mr Harringtons black comedy line from the first film about not losing a pupil on a school trip again is expanded to make him the subject of some very funny cringe comedy.

In some ways, Peter acts in an opposite way to how he does in the first film. Whereas there he wanted to be taken seriously and start foiling more serious crimes than he had been in order to prove himself, here hes more reluctant and would rather not interrupt his holiday. Luckily, Peter remains sympathetic despite this, thanks to his relationship with Mysterio. Speaking of Mysterio, is he the first time an MCU villain has been presented as a hero, but it turns out they really are a villain after all? Its fitting that this should be done with a villain who specialises in illusions and deception. The nightmare sequence is quite creative and screwy in how it has illusions within illusions, and would fit right in to one of Scarecrows levels in Batman: Arkham Asylum. Mysterio also provides a contrast to Vulture, who remained honourable and noble despite his villainy, whereas Mysterio pretends to be a hero, only to be ruthless and gleeful in harming innocents once his faade is broken.

Finally, we end on a cruel twist ending, even crueller than the one in Ant-Man and the Wasp. Im eager to see how Spidey can get out of this one! My only concern is one I shared with the Doctor Strange sequel hook, that this intriguing plot thread will be disregarded or resolved quickly to make room for the multiverse, especially since multiple characters from the older pre-MCU Spider-Man films are returning. Come to think of it, the MTV Spider-Man cartoon ended in a similar way, only there he really did commit the crime he was accused of, albeit he was tricked into it. Between that and the Electro episodes, that show could get pretty dark!

First, Captain Marvel in Endgame, now the SHIELD agent who tells Peter to take off his clothes I now want Peter getting flustered when older women address him in a way that seems like theyre hitting on him, even though they arent, to become a running joke. It was a little weird that Brad tried to discredit Peter among his classmates by taking a picture of him in a state of undress with an attractive woman. With MJ I understand, but not the rest of the class. Maybe Im out of touch and times have changed, but when I was that age, having sex meant you were cool, and having sex on a school trip would confer upon you the status of Absolute Legend (Not that Im aware of it ever happening on any school trips I went on, I hasten to add.)

As this is the last film to date, and my last write-up for this project, Id like to say thank you for letting me participate, and to everyone who read all these. I hope you enjoyed reading them and that I didnt come across as being completely clueless and having no idea what Im on about. I love you 3000!

Raka Putra
"I wanted to like this movie more than I actually did. I do agree with the common opinion that the fixation on Tony Stark is annoying and kinda holding back Peter from being his own character. Mysterio's powers are actually really cool but I just wish there were more of it. A lot more. (I also appreciate them showing Mysterio's backstage team).
Oh and MJ is actually likeable here and had probably the best romance subplot in recent MCU memory. Altogether, still quite fun and picturesque but it had the potential to be much more."

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