Lurker > Marauder64

Having money and having others around you to enjoy that money...can be a happy affair

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Probably best to give to charities and homeless shelters. If the homeless knew how to deal with money, would they be homeless in the first place?

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

Multiple Gods fyi were not equal Gods. Zeus was more powerful than his sons. His sons were also Gods. Being a son means being another God, ie multiple
Unequal Gods is a pagan pantheon device.

Jesus is equal because he and the father as the scripture states are one and exist within each other. Him being the son is not the same as Zeus's sons.

So is "God" just a title? A family name of sorts?

What do these verses mean to you?

The Book of Genesis Chap. 1 : 26-27(new american standard version) states:

26 Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Anyways, I must depart, interesting discussion! If theres anything tomorrow I will discuss then. Thanks!

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

Godhead is something only God has.

So it means Jesus fully had the all or complete everything that God has.

So then Jesus has everything that God has. So then everything that Jesus has, came from God? What about the Apostles, who also did miracles, and whom also had power?

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

Maybe if a scripture said God cannot send himself your question could have a point, but you saying God cannot send himself is not an interpretation, it is your projecting how you think God works over what the scripture plainly states is how God works.
Sorry, but as a Christian, I think the scripture knows more about how he works than your personal bias

Incorrect.

The Gospel according to John Chap. 8 : 25-29(new american standard ver.) states:

25 So they were saying to Him, Who are You? Jesus said to them, What have I been saying to you from the beginning?
26 I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world.
27 They did not realize that He had been speaking to them about the Father.
28 So Jesus said, When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
29 And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.

Sorry to say, but your words make no sense. It's clear as a sunny sky that God sent Jesus to do his bidding. God. God sent his Son. Not "God sent himself"

The Gospel according to John Chap. 3 : 16-18(new american standard ver.) states:

16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Scripture. Facts. The Trinity argument just doesn't hold up, sorry.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

So the miracles the Apostles started to do, they did of their own power?

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

Colossians 2:9
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

What does this mean exactly?

darkphoenix181 posted...

Again, you misunderstand the trinity. The trinity is not that each are a separate God nor does it means the son does not exist. It is about the oneness of nature as described in Phillipians 2:6 where though he was equal, he humbled himself and became low and obeyed.

What I understand is, you're saying there's more than one God. To have an equal means you're no longer the greatest.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

You said you came at me with scripture. That is not true.

What you did was say "yes, John 1 says the word was God
But...

How can this be because I don't see how he could be God when he prayed to God!"

You did not give a scripture negating the sciptures I gave you, instead you asserted your own doubt into them attempting to deny them despite what they said.

I am making no interpretation. You read it for what it says and it accept it.
A personal interpretation is where it says, God was made flesh and you go:
"Actually it doesn't mean God, it means something else".

This is why Christianity has so many sects. A verse can be clear as day but people will pretend it doesn't say what it literally says.

Um what? most of what i've been saying i've been backing up with scripture. you've attempted the same. you post a point, i post a point refuting it. you ARE making an interpretation. as am i. i've posted plain as day some of what Jesus Christ said about himself, according to scripture. you've posted mostly about things that his followers said about him. I concern myself with what Jesus said, and what closely matches what he's said, my interpretation. you have your interpretation based on your own scriptures that you believe.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

God doesn't work like humans.

But if you want to deny and pretend likePhillipians 2:6 doesn't exist, that is your perogative.

Just don't call people accepting what it states as false doctrine.

False doctrine is reading a scripture, admitting what it says but saying you refuse to believe because of excuse x,y,z where x = "doesn't make sense to me"

A lot of what you said you leave as "far beyond our understanding" yet this Trinity stuff is just taking what the bible has said, and running with your interpretation. I don't believe in your doctrine, as I also have an interpretation of the bible as well. you've come at me with scripture, i've done the same. it's all up to interpretation. so my apologies for saying "false doctrine", I could be wrong as well.

I do have a question though. Your God(Jesus) is all knowing and all powerful correct?


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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

It is not that your version makes no sense to me, it is that it is not what the scripture says.

It says God became flesh. It says Jesus was God.

And the problem is you can substitute son of God, or word all day like you just did, but that does not explain how there is only one God and you do not worship multiple Gods when you worship Jesus and give him credit for creation etc.
You literally took a verse that said God became flesh and said no it was God's son.
That doesn't magically wave away the issue of there being one God.

Maybe you would resonate better with the explanation given by another than me:

https://www.bethinking.org/god/q-what-is-the-trinity-do-christians-worship-three-gods

Trinity stuff huh. That post literally said "3 persons, one God" and also calling God His own Father, making himself equal with God

So basically, even in humans, the son born from the father, is subordinate to the father, getting wisdom and such from him. But noone would call them equals. Jesus getting everything from God the father says that God the father is the omnipotent one, not "Jesus and God are both omnipotent". God is self sufficient, Jesus is not....which disqualifies Jesus from being equal to his father. Sorry.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

You are so close.

1. There is only one God

2. The verse says GOD became flesh

1 timothy 3:16
God was manifest in the flesh,

3. But you refuse to say if God became flesh, it must be the only God that exists.
It was God's son.

Explain then, what is God's son?
You said there is one God.

Is God's son a God? But you said there is only one God.

And if God's son is not a God, then 1 timothy 3:16 is not about him since it says GOD became flesh.

"GOD" in the sense that he came from God, but it not God himself. This is clear, as it's written that "The Word became flesh" not God himself became flesh. God is represented to us through his son, the living WORD Jesus Christ.

The Gospel according to John Chap. 1 : 34(new american standard ver.) states John the Baptist said:

34I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.

As your version makes no sense to me, maybe my version makes no sense to you. So it is.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

A being never having a beginning does not make sense either.
You readily accept that though.

I do. It helps other scripture make sense.

What you're saying makes contradictions. Some of what I've posted also makes contradictions. Probably why this has gone on for so long. I can post things attempting to support my point, as can you. We might have to agree to disagree at this point.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

Before I answer your questions, can you answer this one?

darkphoenix181 posted...
So there is only one God.

But Jesus is another God who manifested in the flesh?
Or was he that one and only God?

I asked it above but you ignored it.

We might not even need to keep this up depending on your answer.

1. Yes
2. No
3. He's God's Son.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

So it also makes sense if you believe God is a being beyond mortal limits and not like us.
If you asked, does it make sense for a MAN to exalt another MAN who is also himselr, the answer would be no. But we are talking about a divine being.

So you admit it doesn't make any sense. But now you say, because we're talking about divine beings, it makes sense?

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

Let us look back at timothy.

1 timothy 3
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Timothy despite inspiration called it a mystery. God was manifest in the flesh.
Which God? The one and ONLY God.
The God who John 1 says Jesus was God. The one and only God of which Phillipians says Jesus is an equal of.

You ask me if it makes sense.
By what standard of sense?
God as a being who made all things and always existed doesn't make sense by our human principles to begin with.

But if you are a Christian and believe the testimony, it is not about figuring out how it works but rather proving that it is not a contradiction.
Let US make man in our own image

He, Jesus, will be called everlasting what?

Everlasting Father.

So it was always there. The oldest books of the old testament declare Jesus is God, etc.
Now we have it laid out plainly.

God was made flesh.

But does it make sense? It does if you believe God is omnipotent.
To suggest he cannot be 3 persons in one and send one of those persons to do something while also staying in heaven too is limiting God.
It means you don't believe he is all powerful.

I see. So you're saying the Almighty God came down himself, became subordinate to ....himself, prayed to himself, etc.?

darkphoenix181 posted...

But if you are a Christian and believe the testimony, it is not about figuring out how it works but rather proving that it is not a contradiction.
Let US make man in our own image

The Gospel according to Matthew Chap. 3-16(new america standard ver.) states:

16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, He went up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens were opened,d and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and resting on Him.
17 And a voice from heaven said, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!

Who said "This is my beloved Son"? Was it Jesus talking to himself? If so, who is God the Father?

The Gospel according to Matthew Chap. 1-11(new american standard ver.)

1Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry. 3 And the tempter came and said to Him, If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread. 4 But He answered and said, It is written, MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.
5 Then the devil took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple,
6 and said to Him, If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,
HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU;
and
ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP,
SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.
7 Jesus said to him, On the other hand, it is written, YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.
8 Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; 9 and he said to Him, All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me. 10 Then Jesus said to him, Go, Satan! For it is written, YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY. 11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

Who was it that commanded his angels concerning Jesus?

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

So you reject Phillipians as a book inspired of the holy spirit?
And yes, an equal can recieve power and authority, phillipians literally explains how and why in the next verse.

Also the gospels do mention the equality.
John 1 said the word WAS God.

Can't get more equal than that.

Alrighty, let's take a deeper look at Philippians:

The Epistle of Paul to the Philippians(new american standard ver.) states:

5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

God highly exalted him?

exalted
[izltd]
ADJECTIVE

1. (of a person or their rank or status) placed at a high or powerful level; held in high regard.
2. "it had taken her years of hard infighting to reach her present exalted rank"
3. synonyms:
4. high high-ranking elevated prominent superior lofty grand noble [more]

How could God have exalted somebody of equal power to him? Does that make sense to you?

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Post #62
Marauder64 posted...

The Gospel according to John Chap. 16 : 13-15(new american standard ver.) states, Jesus said to his disciples:

13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
15 All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

So God gave all authority and power in heaven and earth to Jesus Christ. So he can say, "all things that the father has are mine" just as we can say, "everything I have that are mine, God gave to me"

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

Phillipians 2:6
Kjv
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Niv
Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

What this verse says is that Jesus was equal with God

And Jesus did not see his equality as robbing God of any of his glory

And then it goes on to explain Jesus obeyed the father and did his will despite all this.

Yet, in the Gospels, Jesus never says he's equal to the Father. You cannot be equal to someone who you're receiving power and authority from.


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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

Except that he thought it not robbery to be what?

To be equal

At this point I am not sure you actually disagree with me.

Can you answer at least the above?

Um, where in scripture, and please quote, does Jesus ever say HIMSELF, that he is equal to God the Father?


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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

John 8
58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.

The gospel was kept by God since the foundation of the world. Jesus says Jesus is older than Abraham.
Also, God told Moses God's name is I am.
Jesus here says, I am.

What does "I AM" mean to you? You know God dwells in eternity correct? He had his only-begotten son Jesus. Jesus also dwells in eternity. Hence, there's no time. Hence they are both eternal, making his statement accurate.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

If they are one, then both is the answer.

Incorrect.

The Gospel according to John Chap. 7 : 16-18(king james ver.) states:

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

You have a lot of questions. As do I, but you believing God the Father has an equal in his SON Jesus Christ is false doctrine.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

1 timothy 3
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God was manifest in the flesh.

Which God? There is only one God correct?
Who then is spoken of by timothy?

Again, The Gospel according to John solves all of this.

The Gospel according to John Chap. 1 : 1-2(new american standard ver.) states:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Yes, God was manifest in the flesh through Jesus, the living WORD OF GOD, who CAME from God himself.

darkphoenix181 posted...

As a bonus, what of the holy spirit?

Jesus is From God. The Holy Spirit is From God.

The Gospel according to John Chap. 16 : 13-15(new american standard ver.) states, Jesus said to his disciples:

13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
15 All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

So God gave all authority and power in heaven and earth to Jesus Christ. So he can say, "all things that the father has are mine" just as we can say, "everything I have that are mine, God gave to me"

The Gospel according to John Chap. 8 : 54(new american standard ver.) states:

54 Jesus answered, If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, He is our God

Who is this "God" whom Jesus is speaking about here?


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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

No I believe the words of scripture.
John 1
The word was God

But you apparently believe there is 2 Gods.

This is like someone believing Lucifer is Satan because of one verse in the bible, without taking a whole Chapter into context. And no, there is only one God the Father, as I've stated many times before.

darkphoenix181 posted...

Isaiah 43:11
I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.

No savior beside God. Wait...what about Jesus?

Who was the originator of the Gospel, the Good News: God the Father, or Jesus Christ?

darkphoenix181 posted...

Isaiah 44:8
Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.

You are correct, there is only One God, but you claim there are two, by your definition of Divine.

darkphoenix181 posted...

Isaiah 44:24
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

God says he did creation all by himself.

The Epistle of Paul to the Hebrews Chap. 11 : 3(king james ver.) states:

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

darkphoenix181 posted...

John 1 says Jesus helped.
John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Did God lie saying he did it all alone if he made nothing without Jesus?

The book of Isaiah chap. 55 : 11(new American standard version) states that God said:

11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it

So how did God create everything exactly, in your mind?

darkphoenix181 posted...

Hebrews 1:3
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

The exact imprint. He upholds the universe.
Why does Jesus uphokd the universe and not God the father?hmm?

And what is Jesus exactly? In John Chap. 1 : 1 -3 it states:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

So what is Jesus Exactly?

Also I explained what this "we are one" thing is about you keep referring to. Please re-read my last post.

darkphoenix181 posted...

As to the face of God thing, Moses saw God face to face. Exodus 33:11

Btw God also appeared to abraham in bodily form and Abraham saw that face as well.
You were really grasping at straws with that one.

So you're saying God was lying when he said no man shall see my face and live?


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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Sackgurl posted...

marauder, not sure what your argument here actually is, your posts seem a bit lacking in thesis statements

You were saying no jewish king distinguished between the two correct? My post was derived based on that understanding. Were you saying something else? If so my apologies I must have mis-understood.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

So there are two Gods?

Quite the opposite. Isn't it you who are arguing Jesus is divine, aka God but not so joined with the father that you can call them one?

My argument is nothing more than accepting John 1 when it says Jesus was God. Also accepting Isaiah that says Jesus, the son, will be called everlasting father.

Which means God is such a complex entity that he can manifest himself as both a being in heaven and a man on the earth praying to said being, at the same time.

Otherwise, if God for instance laid an egg and created another God, a son that is completely autonomous, isn't that two Gods?

So you believe that because Jesus is Divine that makes him God the Father? Lol.

divine
[dvn]
ADJECTIVE

1. of, from, or like God or a god.
2. "heroes with divine powers" [more]
3. synonyms:
4. godly godlike angelic seraphic saintly beatific spiritual heavenly celestial holy empyrean deiform deific

Please read number 1.

All power and authority was to GIVEN to him by God the Father himself as I said, and referenced earlier. Clearly Jesus is from God. He said so HIMSELF:

The Gospel according to John Chap. 8 : 42(king james version) states:

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Do you deny Christ's words about himself? Do you deny that Jesus is the SON of God?

The Gospel according to John Chap. 1 : 18(new King james ver.) states:

18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Exodus Chap. 33 : 20 states(king james version) that God said to Moses:

20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

So wait a second. People on earth saw Jesus' face on earth, how come they didn't all perish on the spot?

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Sackgurl posted...

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165/jewish/Chapter-1.htm

arguments that the new testament answers this with the trinity concept seem to make sense. the only other explanation would be that of some sort of 'majestic we' that much later kings adopted (perhaps in a sort of heretical way--they did claim divine right to rule after all), but jewish kings specifically did not.

The Gospel according to Matthew Chap. 22 : 41-46(new american standard ver.) states:

41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:
42 What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He? They said to Him, The son of David.
43 He said to them, Then how does David in the Spirit call Him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies beneath your feet?
45 If David then calls Him Lord, how is He his son?
46 No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.

from:

Psalms Chap. 110 : 1-6(New American Standard Ver.) states:

1 The LORD says to my Lord:
Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.
2 The LORD will stretch forth Your strong scepter from Zion, saying,
Rule in the midst of Your enemies.
3 Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power;
In holy array, from the womb of the dawn,
Your youth are to You as the dew.
4 The LORD has sworn and will not change His mind,
You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.
5 The Lord is at Your right hand;
He will shatter kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He will judge among the nations,
He will fill them with corpses,
He will shatter the chief men over a broad country.


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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

Misunderstanding?

You said WITH God and repeated it, yet you quoted the verse.

@

See the part I bolded?

You ignore it. Why?
I didn't write that out, I just quoted you. It is in your bible.

Thr word WAS God

WAS

What does that mean to you?

Is Jesus not divine?
Do you deny his godhood?
Doubting Thomas exclaimed to him, "my lord and my God!"

You know, it is really weird how people get hung up over this.
God can create the world. Fine.

God can do anything. Fine.

God can be two people, one a father and one a son, separate but also one.
Wait a minute! That is too farfetched!

Why is this where the line is drawn?
The scripture is clear

Jesus was with God
Jesus was God

Both are true.
If you want to deny one of them, you have to deny both because they are stated in the same verse.

Also

John 10
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

They are one. What does that mean?

And again
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus will be called..

Everlasting father

Mighty God

And again

Titus 2
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Again

Colossians 2
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The great God

The fulness of the Godhead

Do you still count this as a misunderstanding?

God can be TWO people? So you're saying there are multiple gods?

I see you like to use the "I and my Father are one" verse a lot to prove that God himself and Jesus are the same person. Explain this:

The Gospel according to John Chap. 17 : 11(king james version) states that Jesus said:

11 Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

again:

The Gospel according to John Chap. 17 : 20-23(king james version) states that Jesus also said(praying to God the Father):

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

So it's clear from these verses that the "we are one" is in terms of VISION, PURPOSE. Unless you're saying Jesus is saying we are all GOD too; so again I ask, you believe in multiple Gods??

Of course I believe Jesus is Divine. Christians are partakers of the Divine nature(although Humans have a sinful nature, period) THROUGH Jesus Christ:

2 Peter Chap. 1 : 2-4 states(new american standard ver.) that he said:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
3 seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
4 For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

You want it straight, so I will give it to you straight
It is not about what I believe.

Let me ask you, what does John 1:1 say?

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

You either believe what it says, or you don't.

It clearly says.

1. He was with God.
2. He also was God.

Phillipians 2 says he thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Why would it matter what he thought about being equal with God if he was not equal?
What do you think it means when it says he thought it was not robbery to be equal?

On that note, if you protest the complex God nature of Jesus here, what is Jesus then?
You think he is angel?
A demi-god?
What is Jesus according to your philosophy?

According to what I read, he is no less than the us God speaks to in Genesis and together as one made the world.

The new testament says there is one God, you think Christ completely separate, do you worship multiple Gods?

darkphoenix181 posted...

You want it straight, so I will give it to you straight
It is not about what I believe.

Let me ask you, what does John 1:1 say?

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

You either believe what it says, or you don't.

It clearly says.

1. He was with God.
2. He also was God.

Phillipians 2 says he thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Why would it matter what he thought about being equal with God if he was not equal?
What do you think it means when it says he thought it was not robbery to be equal?

On that note, if you protest the complex God nature of Jesus here, what is Jesus then?
You think he is angel?
A demi-god?
What is Jesus according to your philosophy?

According to what I read, he is no less than the us God speaks to in Genesis and together as one made the world.

The new testament says there is one God, you think Christ completely separate, do you worship multiple Gods?

It IS about what you believe. If you have a mis-understanding of something, then you can spread that mis-understanding to others. I know this very well.

Your number 1 and 2 contradict one another. If i'm WITH someone, obviously that means I'm not that person. Jesus himself made it plain in the Gospels that he is not God the Father.

Lets take a bigger look at The Gospel according to John Chap. 1 - 1-3:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

WITH God. WITH. All things came into being THROUGH him(Jesus Christ). It also clearly separates the two of them by calling one "The Word" and the other Jesus called "God the Father".

So then my answer to your question, Jesus Christ is the living "Word of God". No one else shares that title. There is only ONE "Word of God" and ONE "God the Father".

Jesus Christ is the only-begotten Son of the Father, as it is stated in:

The Gospel according to John Chap. 1-14 :

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

To answer your other question, I worship God the Father, through my master, Jesus Christ our Lord. He is my intermediary , or "middle man" between God and myself. Hope I've answered your questions.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Is obeying the speed limit a choice? are we slave men?

---

The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

1st of all, John 1 said the word was with God

The word...was God.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

John 14
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

It is a complex relationship but it is sufficient but to say Jesus is not another God.
There is only one God.
But at the same time, Jesus is not an angel or a man, he is God. Not another God, he and God are one and the same.

Let me get this correct, you believe Jesus Christ and God the Father are one and the same? Jesus is FROM God. Are you saying , in the bible, all those times Jesus was praying, he was praying to.........HIMSELF? You know that by saying Jesus is Gods equal, you take away his omnipotence, and sole sovereignty correct? As it's written that Jesus said:

The Gospel according to Matthew Chap. 28-18(king james version):

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Who is greater than GOD, to GIVE HIM POWER? Nobody. so here we see Jesus is subordinate to the Father, God himself, as God the Father is whom gave Jesus Christ all power and authority in heaven and earth.

The first Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians Chap. 11 - 3(new american standard version) states:

3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Touching on what you posted that Paul the Apostle said, lets look at what Jesus himself said:

The Gospel according to John Chap. 13 - 16 states

16 Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

Who sent Jesus to earth from Heaven again?

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

darkphoenix181 posted...

Some might think he refers to the angels, especially one believing in Abrahmic religion but rejecting Christianity.

However, if it refers to the angels, why is only God doing anything?

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God said, let us do x
God does x

He must be talking to himself when he says us.

Infact, later scriptures clarifies the angels did not partake in creation.

Nehemiah 9:6
Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

And of course the introduction of Jesus negated none of this as Jesus is likened as not being a wholly separate entity of God, but part of and in agreement with him, dwelling in him and equal.
Still one God.

God was not talking to himself in the aforementioned verse. Jesus is at Gods right hand. Also, God the Father has no equal.

The Gospel according to John chap. 1 : 9-10 states about Jesus:

9 The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.

Here we see the world was created through Jesus, the living Word of God.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

uwnim posted...

Chemosh was portrayed as actually existing.

source?

The Book of Isaiah Chap 46 : 5 states that God said:

5 To whom will you liken Me or count Me equal?
To whom will you compare Me, that we should be alike?

The Book of Isaiah Chap 46 : 8-10 states:

8 Remember this and be brave;
take it to heart, you transgressors!
9 Remember what happened long ago,
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me.
10 I declare the end from the beginning,
and ancient times from what is still to come,
saying: My purpose will stand,
and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.


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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

DevsChum posted...

I always took it to mean the Holy Trinity.

Father, Son, Holy Spirit. God in three persons, etc.

What does that even mean?

In any case God created creation through his word. The living word is Jesus Christ.

The book of Isaiah chap. 55 : 11(new American standard version) states:

11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it


---

The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

You have begun to notice your breathing

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

konokonohamaru posted...

Dude, not a fan of Osteen's church at all - he's a straight up false prophet - but this was fake news. The church was closed because all the roads into it were flooded. When the roads cleared up they opened up their church to shelter people.

How is Joel Osteen a false prophet exactly?

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Who made this all up? So because the employer doesn't want to pay their employees fairly, the customer has to take the bill? Come on meng

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Tupacrulez posted...

To flip that, if I'm an amazing person and I help everyone around me, but don't believe in Gawd Awhlmighty, I get to burn forever.
Woo!

Lest anyman should boast....

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

_BIueMonk posted...

why? 99% of the lessons in it are "just believe in god and itll be okay"

meanwhile people are dying.

People die everyday.

Believe in God and everything will be OK in the END.....seems to be more accurate. Christians suffer everyday...so just cause you believe doesn't mean everyday is going to be bliss.

The Epistle of Paul to the Romans Chap. 8 -28 states(New American Standard version):

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.


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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Wow, this topic saddens my heart. Get called a name and it's ok to resort to physical violence? Guess it is 2019.....my god. What if The person who got struck came back the next day with REVENGE? Gotta be real careful out here. Specially now with social media and people sitting back and recording things instead of actually stopping incidents

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Lol sucking on a man's genitalia for money doesnt make you gay? What about a crackhead doing it for crack?

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Um....police can pace you before hitting their siren.

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Smashingpmkns posted...

What kind of paper does God write on and does he write in cursive?

I hear he wrote on stone back in the day

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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Indeed, to own a Pitbull should require licensing, like a gun.
---

The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Up to you if you're gonna keep pushing, or take her light turn down as a signal to slow down a little.
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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

I like how shes just playing it cool
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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Kix
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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Lmao what is going on here
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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

Drive thru lines still wrapped around the restaurants, sigh.
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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac

enjoy your weekend
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The code of the elitist: If people like it, it sucks. : Sinix.
PSN: Gridmac