LogFAQs > #976542381

UnfairRepresent posted...

Their "endgame" is continued existence and ownership of the Mandatory Palestine area with Israel and Palestine being 2 seperate states.

Israel wants a one state solution were they annex Palestine and own the land. Granting the West Bank's Palestinian population Israeli citizenship while maintaining Israel's current status as a Jewish state with recognized minorities.

Mix in religion and an age old land dispute turns nasty.

Hamas cannot win in a conventional war on any quantifiable level so they resort to terrorism like pretty much every weaker side in a conflict has done since recorded warfare.

Even if you hate Hamas it's crazy to pretend you don't understand what their agenda is. Both Israel and Palestine have been shouting their goals loudly to anyone who will listen.

The thing is, what they want isn't achievable. Not through the scale of force they have available. Insurgency/counter insurgency conflicts are a never ending cycle of escalating war crimes that usually end when the occupier goes home because the cost is too high. Monetarily or politically. It's why the US eventually left Vietnam and why Russia left Afghanistan.

That can't happen here, since the what Israel is occupying they legitimately view as theirs plus they aren't seperated by an ocean in the way the US and Vietnam were. They are more than willing to end the Palestinians as a people rather than leave. Bombing schools, hospital, infrastructure, and shutting off water proves that. Hell it's very possible that Gaza will simply cease to be a thing after this.

I'm not saying the Palestinians aren't correct in attempting to fight, they live in what is essentially an open air prison and are subject to violent assault by the IDF and pogroms by settlers on a fairly regular basis. The Nakba never ended honestly, it just slowed down.

There is a way to wage an insurgency without specifically targeting civilians though. But it's also easy for me to say that, here in the safety of my own home. My family hasn't been displaced, oppressed, or killed since 1948. I'm not subject to checkpoints in what is supposed to be my own territory. My access to food and water hasn't been cut off at the whims of those in power.

Hamas actions here are unconscionable, immoral, unethical. Regardless of your oppression the intentional murder of children and helpless civilians is wrong, but it's also easy to see how they end up coming to the conclusion that it's the only way for the Palestinians to strike back. Explanation isn't excuse though.

In short there is no good easy answer here. Anything that could bring about a just and lasting peace is unpalatable to both sides, and in both cases that unpalatability is reasonably justified.