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Topic	"Hitler wanted to end poverty"... how do you even respond to that?
Firewerx 05/30/20 4:18:52 PM #60:	Unbridled9 posted... Things like what happened in Poland make it so that the whole thing could have been easily averted and other things like the multitude of treaties burdening Germany is what made Hitler's rise even possible in the first place. Your argument is that Hitler should not be blamed for the start of World War II because Polish nationalists should not have resurrected the Polish state after 1918? And the only treaty "burdening" Germany was Versailles. But Germany had already stopped making reparations payments in 1932 (after debts had been reduced and rescheduled under the Dawes and Young Plans) even before Hitler was appointed Chancellor, the occupation of the Ruhr had ended in 1925 and of the Rhineland in 1930, Germany became a member of the League of Nations with a permanent seat on the Council in 1926, and in the German referendum of 1929 -- on whether Germany should pass a law formally renouncing the Treaty of Versailles and banning the collection of reparations -- over 85% of German voters cared so little about the Treaty, they didn't even bother to turn out. Moreover, even when German memories of defeat and Versailles were fresher and more bitter, it wasn't the right-wing parties that dominated German politics -- throughout the 1920s, despite the early struggles to pay reparations and hyperinflation, it was the centre-left SPD that remained the most popular party in Germany. The Nazi share of the vote actually fell from 6.5% in May 1924 to 3% in December that year, and then crashed to a feeble 2.6% in May 1928. Nothing about Versailles made the rise of Hitler or World War II inevitable. Nor did Versailles "create Poland"; it merely rubber-stamped a de facto situation with de jure recognition. By the time the Treaty was signed, Polish nationalist militias had already created new facts on the ground by physically taking control of territory where the Reich government's writ no longer ran -- and there was very little the Western allies could have done to reverse things. Articles 87-98 of the Treaty simply amounted to an official acceptance of this new status quo. --- Watching the shadows burn <cite>Firewerx posted [p:939945756] in "Hitl... [t:78718655]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>Things like what happened in Poland make it so that the whole thing could have been easily averted and other things like the multitude of treaties burdening Germany is what made Hitler's rise even possible in the first place.</quote>Your argument is that Hitler should not be blamed for the start of World War II because Polish nationalists should not have resurrected the Polish state after 1918? And the only treaty "burdening" Germany was Versailles. But Germany had already stopped making reparations payments in 1932 (after debts had been reduced and rescheduled under the Dawes and Young Plans) even before Hitler was appointed Chancellor, the occupation of the Ruhr had ended in 1925 and of the Rhineland in 1930, Germany became a member of the League of Nations with a permanent seat on the Council in 1926, and in the German referendum of 1929 -- on whether Germany should pass a law formally renouncing the Treaty of Versailles and banning the collection of reparations -- over 85% of German voters cared so little about the Treaty, they didn't even bother to turn out. Moreover, even when German memories of defeat and Versailles were fresher and more bitter, it wasn't the right-wing parties that dominated German politics -- throughout the 1920s, despite the early struggles to pay reparations and hyperinflation, it was the centre-left SPD that remained the most popular party in Germany. The Nazi share of the vote actually fell from 6.5% in May 1924 to 3% in December that year, and then crashed to a feeble 2.6% in May 1928. Nothing about Versailles made the rise of Hitler or World War II inevitable. Nor did Versailles "create Poland"; it merely rubber-stamped a de facto situation with de jure recognition. By the time the Treaty was signed, Polish nationalist militias had already created new facts on the ground by physically taking control of territory where the Reich government's writ no longer ran -- and there was very little the Western allies could have done to reverse things. Articles 87-98 of the Treaty simply amounted to an official acceptance of this new status quo. --- Watching the shadows burn</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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