Board 8 > ATTN: Metal Gear Solid fans

(+) Yeah! (+)

How long do you think it takes to beat a ****** Resident Evil or Silent Hill game if you know what to do and are good at the game?

3 hours if you're slow.

The fact there's a reward for beating FFIX in like 12 hours with it's molasses in january gameplay just shows most games can be quick if you know how to make it so.

I tend to get a little facetious with people who are being unreasonable. Thinking MGS is the only modern series that can be speed run and beat in a matter of hours, including RPGs, falls into that category.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "quickly," but most modern FF games can be beaten in 10-ish hours. If you don't skip dialogue and all that, they generally run 25+ hours. That's quite a bit of fat cutting. Nearly any game can be drastically cut by speed runs from people who know what they're doing.

Not sure why it's a crime for modern games to be short though.

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My god I would love to speed run FFX if it had a skip dialogue option.

To be fair, MGS2 is definitely skewed towards cutscenes and dialogue over gameplay, in terms of time spent. It's not worse than MGS4, but literally half the game, without speedrunning, is dialogue.

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

Also, Twin Snakes is a disaster for reasons unrelated to the silly cutscenes. Much worse than MGS1 in almost every aspect, in my opinion.

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

ZFS posted...
Also, Twin Snakes is a disaster for reasons unrelated to the silly cutscenes. Much worse than MGS1 in almost every aspect, in my opinion.

I hope the one aspect it's not worse is the removal of silly accents!

I can take or leave the accents. It doesn't bother me either way! I know people are like MEI LING IS CHINESE-AMERICAN but I mean are we really going to take issue with that compared to all the other inconsistencies this series has !

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

I refuse to play PS1 MGS1 because of bad Mei Ling accents! Can't handle it!

And I'm not saying that MGS2 isn't cutscene heavy because it definitely is. He seems to take issue that you can beat the game in 2 hours as if that's some sort of black mark on modern games and it's the only modern game you can do that with.

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I don't care if it makes sense or not, it just sounds dumb.
They made the right choice updating the canon to TS voices in MGS4.

Yeah, it's definitely not unique in that respect. I actually like the length of all the MGS games, with the exception of maybe MGS4, which goes on for much longer than the rest. They're solid 5-10 hour experiences that are highly replayable. How it should be IMHO

Voices are fine in TTS. That doesn't bother me. The real problem is the controller, the control scheme, the busted MGS2 mechanics, the sterilization of Shadow Moses, and worse music. Abort abort.

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

It's not the "2 hour gameplay" that's the issue. You brought up the "cutscene heavy" aspect. If Kojima wants to make movies, then he should do so, instead of putzing around. Square Enix falls into the same category in the wrong direction. They were battle heavy, but their emphasis was solely on, "hey let's tell a story with some ****** gameplay tacked on top." It was a 6-hour miniseries lumped into a 60 hour game. I'll say that's even worse than Sons of Liberty, since more time is wasted. Most games at least offer a middle ground. The original and Snake Eater were the series' best entries at finding a sweet spot.

What would be better is taking the Arkham Asylum approach of less cutscenes with the story being played out while you are actually doing things, instead of "play, stop to watch, repeat."

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"Should I slice off your tongue or break your countless bones? Either way, I get paid; you'll bleed to death and die alone." - Blood Money

Man, MGS1 and MGS3 are also games with lots of cutscenes that can be beaten in about two hours!

The only difference is that they didn't give them to you in large doses at once like MGS2 and 4 did for the most part.

Maybe that's the "sweet spot" you're talking about, but I wouldn't call any game in the series "balanced" in regards to gameplay::cutscene ratio.

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Although MGS1 is home to the "Ten Minute Bad Guy Death Speech."

And MGS3 gets pretty cutscene heavy toward the end of the game.

Not coincidentally, it's the best part of the game.

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But cutscene overkill is what games should avoid. If Guns of the Patriots is anything, it's a public service on how NOT to do video game story. Imagine if it were unskippable.

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"Should I slice off your tongue or break your countless bones? Either way, I get paid; you'll bleed to death and die alone." - Blood Money

MGS2 mechanics in MGS1 only breaks things that should be broken in the first place.

I don't know why MGS is a game where purists will defend a poor control scheme as "difficulty." I personally don't like having trouble with stuff because it's hard to aim as well as you should be able to. Real difficulty is cool with me but yeah MGS "difficulty" lost by the transition to TTS isn't difficulty I want back.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

If you don't like movies in your games, that's cool.
I don't mind it personally if the gameplay isn't sacrificed (and you can skip it).

MGS1 isn't a difficult game, though. The control scheme is less complicated than any other game in the series, and it's designed around what limitations it has - not be able to aim in the first-person, hang over ledges, rolling, etc. Guns have auto-aim kick in when you're in range of someone, guards have stricter paths and can't hear noises unless you're on grating, cameras can't be destroyed but can be disabled.

The problem isn't that the MGS2 mechanics are bad, necessarily, but that the level design and AI weren't updated, and adjusted, to accommodate them. The result being a broken mess of an experience, making it much less enjoyable as a whole, provided you're into MGS's brand of gameplay.

MGS1 was a simple but intelligently designed game; TTS takes that and warps it into something else entirely. It wants to be MGS1, but it really isn't anymore. It's just not a very good remake, or game, and it stands out against every other MGS. If nothing else, it's a good example of why you don't let a C-tier developer handle a major series! Fortunately, Konami wants to remake MGS1, so at least there will be a modern version done right out there, hopefully.

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

They want to remake it for the same reason as everyone else: make more money. The series doesn't need it, and they are merely jumping on the GoW fad. To bring Square back into this discussion, it seems no developer can resist the urge of remaking games OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER *smacks self* If it weren't for gullible people shilling $20-$30 for "prettier games," developers might be forced to try something new. I don't need new versions of said games, because I don't find fault (or enough fault) to justify the expense. I'm being cynical, but that could be because Gamefly has rendered the "$60 investment" moot.

Go Gamefly.

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"Should I slice off your tongue or break your countless bones? Either way, I get paid; you'll bleed to death and die alone." - Blood Money

What does it mean if I don't feel like catching up on my own topic because I've already gotten everything I wanted out of it?

anyway, I just got home from vacation about an hour ago. should start playing MGS soon, meaning within the next couple days, not necessarily tonight.

playthrough topic?

y/n

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I hate all ugly people, regardless of gender. ~ thundersheep

Y

Oh and yeah TTS is a terrible remake.

It's a perfectly good game in its own right if you haven't played MGS1, but compare it to MGS1 and it's just augh.

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I prefer Twin Snakes over MGS, and I have over 90 MGS tattoos on my body.

Speaking of, when you say you're gonna play MGS do you mean Twin Snakes which you mentioned ya had?

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One Piece: Pirates with style!
-= Metal Gear Solid: Tactical Espionage Action =-

From: Strife2 | #064
Imagine if it were unskippable.

You're pretty dumb aren't you, why do you think it's skippable?

You play the game the first time with all the cutscenes, like you're watching a movie with gameplay sprinkled here and there.

Then on subsequent playthroughs, Kojima knows you don't want to watch his 15 hour movie over and over, so you can skip all the scenes and have a solid 5 hour arcade-action experience. That's way ****ing better than FFX, which assumes you want to hear every single line of dialogue and watch every single cutscene in full every time you replay the game or die to a boss.

From: Strife2 | #068
but that could be because Gamefly has rendered the "$60 investment" moot.

Oh okay you don't care about games anyway nevermind

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_foolmo_
'I mean, what does electricity have to do with math besides calculators?' - ZeldaFreak29

Before this stupid flame war about nothing keeps going, I'll get back on topic. Metal Gear Solid is essentially Kojima's self-pleasure homage to spy movies and anime. The control scheme in every game is clunky, but the danger of getting found or getting shot full of holes is minimal. Crazy, nonsensical boss fights happen EVERYWHERE...speaking of ************, the B&B corps are interesting to say the least.

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"Should I slice off your tongue or break your countless bones? Either way, I get paid; you'll bleed to death and die alone." - Blood Money

From: Psycho_Kenshin | #071
and I have over 90 MGS tattoos on my body.

Not that I actually believe this, but that would be awesome and I would want pics.

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From: Strife2 | #068
I'm being cynical

No kidding.

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Being cynical has its advantages...being selfish, cynical, narcissistic, AND a cheapskate: that's a real *****, but I've somehow managed it. I could just be watching too much Zero Punctuation.

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"Should I slice off your tongue or break your countless bones? Either way, I get paid; you'll bleed to death and die alone." - Blood Money

This will be a playthrough topic eventually. Bumping now because I'm really bad for starting playthroughs then letting them purge.

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I hate all ugly people, regardless of gender. ~ thundersheep

biolizardfan posted...
That's way ****ing better than FFX, which assumes you want to hear every single line of dialogue and watch every single cutscene in full every time you replay the game or die to a boss.

yesss

From: biolizardfan | #072
FFX, which assumes you want to hear every single line of dialogue and watch every single cutscene in full every time you replay the game or die to a boss.

But I do...!

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Well, I just dug up my wii and hooked it up. Then I remembered I let my friend borrow my gamecube, along with the controller. :(

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I hate all ugly people, regardless of gender. ~ thundersheep

That's because you should have MGS1 instead.

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I don't play story-driven games unless I want to experience their story. I'll never pull FFX out of its case if I don't feel like watching the storyline unfold again. It's just a waste of time to me; like half a game. Same applies to everything else that focuses extensively on attempting to tell a tale.

If I'm not in the mood to hear Solid Snake and the gang, I'm not in the mood for MGS.

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Jeff Zero posted...
I don't play story-driven games unless I want to experience their story. I'll never pull FFX out of its case if I don't feel like watching the storyline unfold again. It's just a waste of time to me; like half a game. Same applies to everything else that focuses extensively on attempting to tell a tale.

If I'm not in the mood to hear Solid Snake and the gang, I'm not in the mood for MGS.

I think I'm pretty much the same way. It's almost like fastforwarding a movie to where you only watch all your favorite scenes if you do it any other way.

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I hate all ugly people, regardless of gender. ~ thundersheep

I think I'm pretty much the same way. It's almost like fastforwarding a movie to where you only watch all your favorite scenes if you do it any other way.

Yep, exactly!

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From: turbopuns | #083
I think I'm pretty much the same way. It's almost like fastforwarding a movie to where you only watch all your favorite scenes if you do it any other way.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with doing that! I do that from time to time!

I also keep save files at favorite places in my favorite games in case I feel like playing just that part, too!

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"I can set you free, mate."
"My freedom was forfeit long ago!"

Metal Gear gameplay is fun enough for me to not need a story to play it.

It's why I love the extra missions and extra modes.

If you want to buy another gamecube controller, get this:
http://gear.ign.com/articles/838/838868p1.html

I have one. It's great. Better than the actual gc controller to be honest.

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I play MGS for the gameplay as much as the story. One without the other is half an experience, in my mind. Replayed them all multiple times skipping scenes!

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.