Board 8 > PS1 era really was the golden age of rpg's

(+) Yeah! (+)

with classics like ffVII, VIII, tactics, star ocean 2, suikoden II and a lot of others its hard to argue with psx generation rpgs. also, the best localizations (mostly from working designs) including the two Lunar masterpieces and the arc the lad trilogy put it head and shoulders above the competition.

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jrpgs, sure.

rpgs in general, disagree.

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Yeah, I'll agree that it was great for JRPGs, but that may just be that I was going through my anime/JRPG phase during the PS1 era. I'm probably biased.

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Yeah, sounds about right. PS2 had a few gems, but it didn't have the same amount of quality and variety the PS1 had. Good time.

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I like a variety of different kinds of games, but jrpgs from that era are (at least from my perspective) the best. it was an era of many innovations in the genre, but there was alot of consistency as far as dialogue, character and story depth, replay value and overall enjoyability.

what generation would you say trumps psx era with regard to rpgs?

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yep, there was also the saturn during that gen which had some awesome rpgs.

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This topic is going to turn into a WRPG versus JRPG ordeal.

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Chrono1219

As it always does.

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

Never.

Just ignore it and it'll go away.

PS1 RPGs so good

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Topic is truth. RPGs just don't appeal to me anymore now that they've moved away from the old school JRPG fashion. =[

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this gen, WRPGs have been awesome. also we see more and more rpg elements popping up in various genres, so you can enjoy a lot of what makes RPGs good in other games.

I don't think there was tons of inoovation in the PS1 JRPG era, you had the occasional game that did a really good job mixing it up, like Grandia, but for the most part I can't get through most JRPGs because of how similarly they all play out.

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Grandia is your example really

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

Saturn did have an amazing library of rpgs considering it was a flop...shame as it was a good console.

I have no problem with wrpgs, morrowind is in my top 20 all time for sure. I just dont think any 'generation' can stack up to that of ps1 as far as quality rpgs.

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if you want innovation look at the star ocean 2 battle system/item creation system. it was way ahead of its time and I really havent found a comparable one to this day (including any other star ocean game).

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Ugh, WRPGs...they just don't do a good job of making me want to chore through the story. JRPGs always made me want to progress, but WRPGs never have. I'm just an oddball though.

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I don't know that I get where you're coming from on them 'all playing the same,' either. FFVII plays nothing like Xenogears which plays nothing like Valkyrie Profile which plays nothing like Suikoden II which plays nothing like Vagrant Story which...!

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

PSX > SNES > whatever. That's my ranking.

The PlayStation was such a good time for JRPGs. The relative-to-today speed at which companies like Square could churn out their games and the vastly superior writing to almost every JRPG I've seen over the past several years really put both PSX and SNES head-and-shoulders above the modern-day competition. There was a richness in character detail, a length of campaign through an increase in plot points and locations rather than simply making areas larger and shinier and an attention to narrative flow I don't often see from story-driven JRPGs anymore.

Xenogears, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFT, Star Ocean 2, Vagrant Story, an admittedly inferior version of Tactics Ogre... even The Legend of Dragoon if I want a heavier dose of cheese and some questionable aspects with my lengthy plot.

JRPGs over the past several years largely seem to dawdle and yet go nowhere in their writing to me. I've missed a few so-called greats, though, so as I catch up with them we'll see if my opinion changes. But the amount of times I reach a location in FFVII and think to myself, "now the story twists and x happens" versus the amount of times I can think of that such a statement applies to FFXIII? Geez, quite a difference.

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Andel posted...
I like a variety of different kinds of games, but jrpgs from that era are (at least from my perspective) the best. it was an era of many innovations in the genre, but there was alot of consistency as far as dialogue, character and story depth, replay value and overall enjoyability.

what generation would you say trumps psx era with regard to rpgs?

I'm a big fan of the 16-bit era, myself. FFV, FFVI, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Terranigma, Phantasy Star IV, Earthbound, Bahamut Lagoon, Breath of Fire 1 and 2, Dragon Quest 5, Lufia 2, Ultima VII, Ys III.

I think that's probably all of the ones worth playing.

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From: FreakinLincoln | #019
I'm a big fan of the 16-bit era, myself. FFV, FFVI, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Terranigma, Phantasy Star IV, Earthbound, Bahamut Lagoon, Breath of Fire 1 and 2, Dragon Quest 5, Lufia 2, Ultima VII, Ys III.

I think that's probably all of the ones worth playing.

Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Shining Force I and II.

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I don't know that I would agree about writing in SNES RPGs being particularly standout. There are a couple of examples, but they're more exceptions than the rule. They did have some nice gameplay ideas every now and then, though more than a few of them were pretty derivative.

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Articuno2001 posted...
From: FreakinLincoln | #019
I'm a big fan of the 16-bit era, myself. FFV, FFVI, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Terranigma, Phantasy Star IV, Earthbound, Bahamut Lagoon, Breath of Fire 1 and 2, Dragon Quest 5, Lufia 2, Ultima VII, Ys III.

I think that's probably all of the ones worth playing.
Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Shining Force I and II.

Ahhhh yes! I had a feeling I had forgotten a few. CT was never a good game to me, but SMRPG and the Shining Force games are great.

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16 bit era was ceetainly great, it just reached a pinnacle for me the next gen. while games like earthbound and ffVI are among my all time favorites, I feel that square (and def working designs) produced an onslaught of quality rpgs the likes of which we wont likely see again.

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it just seems to me that after the pinnacle, it is getting gradually worse with respect to rpgs in general. still alot of solid ones appearing, but I dont get the epic feel I do when playing the (self imagined) classics.

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There are a few factors, the primary one being the shift away from JRPGs and the rise of WRPGs. I have never seen wars between 2 subgenres be more intense. Even more so than the 2d versus 3d fighter debates.

But the other problem is that there are simply less games being released because of cost. So yeah we a few amazing games now, like ME2, Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, etc, but they are fewer because do you know how much those cost to make?

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Chrono1219

I like the PS2 the best. FFX, Shadow Hearts 1-3, Persona 3 and 4, Suikoden III and V, Dragon Quest VIII all really good. Lots of other stuff too, in varying degrees of quality.

yeah...it just saddens me the emphasis has shifted from making quality games to making pretty games with online play. what happened to the epic, story driven rpg?

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The problem is I'm not sure psx stories are better than current gen stories. They were longer, yeah, but games were longer back then because of lower costs, but longer does not mean better.

Now RPGs (WRPGS in particular) focus on making an expansion world and have changed from plot to moral and character developments.

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Chrono1219

PS1 RPGs were the best, period.

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ps2 certainly has many great rpgs. from disgaea, ffX, ateiler iris(sp?), la puccelle tactics, and especially growlancer generations, the ps2 has a very impressive rpg library. I just dont think it matched the diversity or overall quality of psx era, and the demise of working designs severily limited the quality of localizations.

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The newer 'free roaming' rpgs are (in many cases) high quality games, but I prefer the epic storylines of the xenogears and lunars of the previous gen.

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From: Andel | #001
also, the best localizations (mostly from working designs) including the two Lunar masterpieces and the arc the lad trilogy put it head and shoulders above the competition.

Definitely this.

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FreakinLincoln posted...
Earthbound

worth playing.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA- no.

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chummy, you should play Seiken Densetsu 3 if you haven't already. Sequel to Secret of Mana. Way more gameplay perks imo. Really super-cool.

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From: FreakinLincoln | Posted: 7/6/2011 6:23:34 PM | #019
Andel posted...
I like a variety of different kinds of games, but jrpgs from that era are (at least from my perspective) the best. it was an era of many innovations in the genre, but there was alot of consistency as far as dialogue, character and story depth, replay value and overall enjoyability.

what generation would you say trumps psx era with regard to rpgs?

I'm a big fan of the 16-bit era, myself. FFV, FFVI, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Terranigma, Phantasy Star IV, Earthbound, Bahamut Lagoon, Breath of Fire 1 and 2, Dragon Quest 5, Lufia 2, Ultima VII, Ys III.

I think that's probably all of the ones worth playing.

Seiken Densetsu 3 superior to the vast majority of everything

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dammit Jeff

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Haha, incredible.

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OmarsComin posted...
I like the PS2 the best. FFX, Shadow Hearts 1-3, Persona 3 and 4, Suikoden III and V, Dragon Quest VIII all really good. Lots of other stuff too, in varying degrees of quality.
PS2 RPG era represent. Sad that it isn't acknowledged that much though....

Andel posted...
yeah...it just saddens me the emphasis has shifted from making quality games to making pretty games with online play. what happened to the epic, story driven rpg?

Costs happened, as well as user entitlement. If a jRPG with PSX or even PS2-tier sprites was released today, it would sell 10 copies and be thrashed by everybody, even if it had better writing than Planescape Torment and the Shadow Hearts series combined, as well as a more polished gameplay than the complete Tales Of and Star Ocean sagas.

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I would take a quality, story driven game over a pretty, crap game anyday. maybe that is why ds is so awesome...

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topic is soooooo true

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Andel posted...
I would take a quality, story driven game over a pretty, crap game anyday. maybe that is why ds is so awesome...

It's not about what you want. It's about what pays the bills. Up-to-date graphics do, good stories don't. Not even talking about stupidly costly graphics like FFXIII - simply current-gen engines cost a ton to develop and mean that a game has to have chances to sell well to get greenlit. I like good stories as much as everybody else, but Billy Q. Halo wants shiny graphics first and him and the people like him drive the industry. Appealing to small niches is a losing strategy unless you have an excellent grasp of the size of your target audience, a la Atlus.

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The problem here is that you are thinking psx era is the best and that games are not going to be as good as them because games are different now. Well, games are going to keep on changing as time goes on. You've basically put yourself into an impossible situation.

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Chrono1219

PS2 era, totally.

I used to think PS1 era was awesome. Then I looked back, and while it had some amazing games, there weren't as many as I seem to remember there being.

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I am not naive enough to think gaming would regress 15 years just because a sap like me happens to prefer rpgs from a previous gen....just sad the way things have headed in the industry. I do enjoy many modern rpgs, but I dont get the same feeling of satisfaction playing the current ones. (some exceptions apply but as a whole I much prefer psx era)

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Chrono1219 posted...
The problem here is that you are thinking psx era is the best and that games are not going to be as good as them because games are different now. Well, games are going to keep on changing as time goes on. You've basically put yourself into an impossible situation.

This isn't really the case here. For a lot of people I would say it's true but for folks like Andel and I, not so much.

"Putting myself in the right mentality" isn't going to change the fact that the majority of more recent games I've played are shorter and less emotionally engaging than several PSX JRPGs I love to death. Nostalgia has nothing to do with it: I'm the harshest critic you may ever meet when it comes to defining something not by misty-eyed rose-tinted glasses but by its actual worth.

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wtf is this graphics vs. story debate?

stupid ****

As far as JRPGs go, definitely, although the 16 bit era had some pretty great ones and the PS2 had its stars (and my favourite JRPG/favourite game ever is on the GBA so I don't even know where to slot that). Not that anyone will ever agree with me on the subject of "best PS2 JRPG" but I can live with it. Part of it is that it feels like there's more JRPGs from that era that deviate from the standards of the genre in some way or another, and it's usually from the standards I dislike. Games like Star Ocean 2 and Valkyrie Profile, for example, do a good job of getting away from the tendency of games in the genre to become redundant in terms of gameplay (and of course it helps that they have other things going for them too). I'm a lot less of a JRPG fan these days than I once was, but the best JRPGs still stick out in my mind because they tend to be the ones that have some sort of distinct feel that makes them stand out as memorable in ways that are hard to put into words, and I tend to be a sucker for any game that makes me think "wow this is awesome", then realize I have to really dig to figure out what it is that appeals to me so much.

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pjbasis posted...
wtf is this graphics vs. story debate?

stupid ****

o_o

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