Board 8 > Music is a dieing art.

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RevolverSaro
07/16/11 5:33:00 AM
#1:


Now let me preface this by saying that I enjoy modern and contemporary music well enough. But it was much better when it was a high-minded esoteric form of performance art. Listeners no longer savor music. Rather they use it as a vehicle for other activities such as dancing. Most people I know argue music is pointless if you can't dance to it, which is sad in my opinion.

Turn on the radio: Contemporary music usually deals with low-level elements of human existence: sex, love, partying. Writers used to compose about all sorts of topics: transience, beauty, heroicism. The most talented composers could take audiences on tours of beautiful country sides, not with words or pictures, but with instruments. The results were beautiful.

People now a days believe that music must be "catchy", that it must hook you in immediately. That if a melody cannot be recalled from memory, that it is forgettable, and thus poorly written. In truth, its because most songs today replay the same melody repeatedly, essentially forcing you to be able to recall it.

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 5:35:00 AM
#2:


auuuuuuuughhhh

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Paratroopa1
07/16/11 5:37:00 AM
#3:


Everything you have just described about music has not changed even slightly over the millenia that music has been a concept. If anything, the advent of listening to music over the internet has broadened and complicated peoples' tastes.

I still think the general population has bad taste but uh, yeah, you're wrong.
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KanzarisKelshen
07/16/11 5:39:00 AM
#4:


This topic is new, exciting, and correct.

/end sarcasm

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Blulum
07/16/11 5:43:00 AM
#5:


What Para said. People romanticize how things used to be because they are uneducated, this isn't nothin new.

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TomNook7
07/16/11 5:45:00 AM
#6:


Do you mean mainstream music is a dieing art?

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 5:46:00 AM
#7:


From: TomNook7 | #006
Do you mean mainstream music is a dieing art?


still wouldn't be correct.

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RevolverSaro
07/16/11 5:47:00 AM
#8:


Paratroopa:

Listen to this:


And compare it to this:


And tell me that, as an expression of art, that music hasn't declined.

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Strife2
07/16/11 5:48:00 AM
#9:


They also romanticize things because they have no alternative. Look at any fans of any medium. The majority of the time something new comes out, nostalgia honks say, "It's not as good as the old stuff." As long as nostalgia has a death grip on people, it won't end. We only choose to remember the best things about our childhood while ignoring the worst.

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 5:48:00 AM
#10:


From: RevolverSaro | #007
Paratroopa:

Listen to this:


And compare it to this:


And tell me that, as an expression of art, that music hasn't declined.


I can't even right now

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TomNook7
07/16/11 5:48:00 AM
#11:


Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer posted...
From: TomNook7 | #006
Do you mean mainstream music is a dieing art?
still wouldn't be correct.


Florence & the machine and Adele are the only mainstream radio artists in the last few years that arent complete crap.

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 5:51:00 AM
#12:


From: TomNook7 | #011
Florence & the machine and Adele are the only mainstream radio artists in the last few years that arent complete crap.


That's a stupid opinion.

And there's ****ty mainstream music in every era.

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RevolverSaro
07/16/11 5:52:00 AM
#13:


I'm not comparing music today to music from 30 years ago. I'm comparing music today to music from 70 years or earlier. The fact remains. While composers back then treated music much as an artist treats painting, songwriters of today treat music as a whore.

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Paratroopa1
07/16/11 5:52:00 AM
#14:


I don't understand what linking two wildly different pieces of music is supposed to prove. The songs don't even serve close to the same purpose, for one. Also, newsflash: not every piece of music ever made is good. I'd wager that this has always been true, we just haven't kept around the less noteworthy works throughout history, only the really good ones - which is why we have only the really good ones. One major thing that has changed is that with digital technology, the ability to compose and create music has become much more accessible, which means people are creating a lot more crap, this is true, but there's always tons of musicians who know what they're doing and are creating valuable pieces of work, and many of those still become popular today.

But seriously, trying to compare a fully orchestrated work and a synthesized pop song like they're the same thing. Really? These are two different things! Do you think people don't create orchestrated music anymore, or something?
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metaIslugg
07/16/11 5:52:00 AM
#15:


Proper grammar is a dying art.

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Paratroopa1
07/16/11 5:53:00 AM
#16:


Wow, good job slandering every current songwriter by the way. I guess I should give up my aspirations of being a composer because I can't appreciate music.
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RevolverSaro
07/16/11 5:53:00 AM
#17:


Even orchestrated music has faced "popification", to be honest.

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RevolverSaro
07/16/11 5:54:00 AM
#18:


metaIslugg posted...
Proper grammar is a dying art.

I didn't sleep last night.

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Giggsalot
07/16/11 5:54:00 AM
#19:


music (like most art forms) is more diverse and high quality than ever right now, and the research you need to do to find that out is more than a fair compromise

anyone who tried to judge the medium of gaming based on farmville and angry birds would get laughed off this board, but that's exactly what you're doing with music

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Paratroopa1
07/16/11 5:54:00 AM
#20:


I'd wager you aren't nearly educated enough about orchestrated music or what "popification" even means to be making such a claim.
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KimPilgrim
07/16/11 5:54:00 AM
#21:


From: RevolverSaro | #017
Even orchestrated music has faced "popification", to be honest.


Blame vidya gaems

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 5:54:00 AM
#22:


From: Paratroopa1 | #014
I don't understand what linking two wildly different pieces of music is supposed to prove. The songs don't even serve close to the same purpose, for one. Also, newsflash: not every piece of music ever made is good. I'd wager that this has always been true, we just haven't kept around the less noteworthy works throughout history, only the really good ones - which is why we have only the really good ones. One major thing that has changed is that with digital technology, the ability to compose and create music has become much more accessible, which means people are creating a lot more crap, this is true, but there's always tons of musicians who know what they're doing and are creating valuable pieces of work, and many of those still become popular today.

But seriously, trying to compare a fully orchestrated work and a synthesized pop song like they're the same thing. Really? These are two different things! Do you think people don't create orchestrated music anymore, or something?


external image

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Blulum
07/16/11 5:55:00 AM
#23:


Even orchestrated music has faced "popification", to be honest.

I also hate it when music is melodic and rhythmically interesting.

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Blulum
07/16/11 5:56:00 AM
#24:


Blame vidya gaems

Orchestral video game composers mostly take their cues from hollywood composers, namely, half of them are just ripping off Hans Zimmer.

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TomNook7
07/16/11 5:56:00 AM
#25:


Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer posted...
From: TomNook7 | #011
Florence & the machine and Adele are the only mainstream radio artists in the last few years that arent complete crap.
That's a stupid opinion.

And there's ****ty mainstream music in every era.


It's never been so overwhelmingly ****ty until this era though. The music industry is too busy lazily pumping out sensations who make autotuned easy-to-play music for the 15 year old girl demographic who eat it up because they've never heard anything better.



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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 5:58:00 AM
#26:


From: TomNook7 | #025
It's never been so overwhelmingly ****ty until this era though. The music industry is too busy lazily pumping out sensations who make autotuned easy-to-play music for the 15 year old girl demographic who eat it up because they've never heard anything better.


What would a guy who's been dead for 20 years know about current mainstream music?

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Ryo8889
07/16/11 5:58:00 AM
#27:


An art form isn't "made" by the artist, but by the audience.


Also, yeah, great way to slander every musician now. How would you know they treat music like a whore. Sure, there's plenty of music I don't like, but that doesn't mean that the creator of that piece doesn't feel that he/she is putting his/her soul in the music.


And also, yeah, boring topic is boring.
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KimPilgrim
07/16/11 5:59:00 AM
#28:


I think you can make an argument that modern music has the worst ****:quality ratio.

But yeah saying the medium is dying is silly.

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 5:59:00 AM
#29:


From: Ryo8889 | #027
Also, yeah, great way to slander every musician now. How would you know they treat music like a whore. Sure, there's plenty of music I don't like, but that doesn't mean that the creator of that piece doesn't feel that he/she is putting his/her soul in the music.


this.

There are plenty of people (myself included) who sincerely enjoy popular music.

Not all pop listeners are MINDLESS DRONE VICTIMS OF THE COPORATE MACHINE.

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 6:00:00 AM
#30:


From: KimPilgrim | #028
I think you can make an argument that modern music has the worst ****:quality ratio.

But yeah saying the medium is dying is silly.


That comes with the territory of more people having access to the tools they need to create and release music.

1942: Casablanca
2009: Charlie Bit My Finger

the art of cinema is dying, guys

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RevolverSaro
07/16/11 6:01:00 AM
#31:


Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer posted...
From: TomNook7 | #025
It's never been so overwhelmingly ****ty until this era though. The music industry is too busy lazily pumping out sensations who make autotuned easy-to-play music for the 15 year old girl demographic who eat it up because they've never heard anything better.


What would a guy who's been dead for 20 years know about current mainstream music?


Because the same sort of corporate culture that exists today was on the rise back when that was recorded.

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 6:02:00 AM
#32:


From: RevolverSaro | #031
Because the same sort of corporate culture that exists today was on the rise back when that was recorded.


From: Ryo8889 | #027
An art form isn't "made" by the artist, but by the audience.


I think this dude pretty much said it best.

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Paratroopa1
07/16/11 6:03:00 AM
#33:


The music industry has churned out tons of crap ever since "the music industry" ever became a thing. As far as my preferences are concerned, I'd say "popular music" in the 70's and 80's was a little better, but the 90's were a lot worse, and things have actually significantly improved since the wave of boy bands in the 90's. The 80's also brought us some really intolerable pop music. Don't get me wrong, a lot of pop music sucks, but not all of it. Some of it's quite good. Most of it's just boring rather than outright awful, I'd say. That's okay. Not every human being on the planet is a connoisseur of music. I like it that way.

But all of that doesn't even matter. All of the great music you're talking about still exists and is still created. It hasn't gone away. It's just gotten more accessible.
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Giggsalot
07/16/11 6:03:00 AM
#34:


actually, let me step back from this a second

you have ADAM ANT in your sig, saro

how the hell are you in any sort of position to whinge about vapid, insipid pop music

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TomNook7
07/16/11 6:05:00 AM
#35:


Regardless, I don't see how anyone with high standards or taste could stand listening to Lil Wayne, Lady Antebellum, Train, Justin Beiber, etc.

Regardless of the demographic it's catered to, the quality of mainstream music has simply declined sharply. I have to go dig through indie stuff on the internet if I wanna find good music from this era.

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nintendogirl1
07/16/11 6:06:00 AM
#36:


From: Giggsalot | #034
actually, let me step back from this a second

you have ADAM ANT in your sig, saro

how the hell are you in any sort of position to whinge about vapid, insipid pop music


WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA.

Stand and deliver your opinion in this topic, but don't bring ****ing slander into this.

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 6:06:00 AM
#37:


From: TomNook7 | #035
Regardless, I don't see how anyone with high standards or taste could stand listening to Lil Wayne, Lady Antebellum, Train, Justin Beiber, etc.

Regardless of the demographic it's catered to, the quality of mainstream music has simply declined sharply. I have to go dig through indie stuff on the internet if I wanna find good music from this era.


"my opinion on this subjective topic is an objective measure of quality", eh?

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amdragon22391
07/16/11 6:06:00 AM
#38:


I regret logging into my alt.

Holy ****ing ****.

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RevolverSaro
07/16/11 6:07:00 AM
#39:


Like I said, I enjoy modern and contemporary music too.


I guess to draw an allegory, music today is kind of like the men of Gondor during the Third Age. They're still bad ass, but their ancestors, the men of Numenor were much more amazing and skilled

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Giggsalot
07/16/11 6:08:00 AM
#40:


It really hasn't though, Tom; all the unmemorable crap pop music from say, 40 years ago has just been completely forgotten. Hindsight is always 20/20.

It'll be the same looking back on this era in retrospect - people will forget the likes of Kesha (sorry Mer) and wax lyrical about the Hey Yas, the Umbrellas, the Crazy in Loves.

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 6:09:00 AM
#41:


From: Mr Lasastryke | #039
Are you really going to argue that there's still Bachs, Mozarts, Beethovens, and yes, Richard Strausss composing music today?


It's not as if the four of them were all super popular at the same time. You listed 4 musicians whose lifetimes spread across 3 centuries.

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TomNook7
07/16/11 6:09:00 AM
#42:


Paratroopa1 posted...
The music industry has churned out tons of crap ever since "the music industry" ever became a thing. As far as my preferences are concerned, I'd say "popular music" in the 70's and 80's was a little better, but the 90's were a lot worse, and things have actually significantly improved since the wave of boy bands in the 90's. The 80's also brought us some really intolerable pop music. Don't get me wrong, a lot of pop music sucks, but not all of it. Some of it's quite good. Most of it's just boring rather than outright awful, I'd say. That's okay. Not every human being on the planet is a connoisseur of music. I like it that way.

But all of that doesn't even matter. All of the great music you're talking about still exists and is still created. It hasn't gone away. It's just gotten more accessible.


The 90's was a good decade for mainstream music, despite the boy bands. We had everything from Nirvana to Nas. I'd say once Nickelback rolled around is when mainstream music started to decline. And 80's pop was awesome, how could you hate New Wave.

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Mr Lasastryke
07/16/11 6:10:00 AM
#43:


I sincerely hope people will not remember "Umbrella" as a musical masterpiece of our era.

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Blulum
07/16/11 6:10:00 AM
#44:


There are still people that make boring but complicated music that is more mastubatory in nature than something you would actually want to listen to, yes.

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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 6:10:00 AM
#45:


We are not bringing my girl Ke$ha into this.

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Giggsalot
07/16/11 6:11:00 AM
#46:


better than anything hall and oates ever did!

(i was really just talking about pure pop music, though)

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Blulum
07/16/11 6:11:00 AM
#47:


More importantly, no one will have any idea who the **** lady gaga is 50 years from now.

I can't wait for the future.

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Paratroopa1
07/16/11 6:12:00 AM
#48:


Mr Lasastryke | Posted 7/16/2011 6:07:37 AM | message detail | quote
Are you really going to argue that there's still Bachs, Mozarts, Beethovens, and yes, Richard Strausss composing music today?


Are you really going to argue that nobody who's lived in the past century could possibly be as musically talented as them?
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Mer_Mer_Yes_Mer
07/16/11 6:12:00 AM
#49:


From: Blulum | #048
More importantly, no one will have any idea who the **** lady gaga is 50 years from now.


lolololol

good luck with that prediction buddy

legend in the game, ****tin' on your faves, stay pressed, deal with it, etc.

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Mr Lasastryke
07/16/11 6:12:00 AM
#50:


It's not as if the four of them were all super popular at the same time. You listed 4 musicians whose lifetimes spread across 3 centuries.

I listed examples of what I presume Saro thinks are the great composers in history. Para says "people like that are still creating music today." I reply: "who, then?"

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