Rules: There may be spoilers for all seven books and 8 movies Each match will last for exactly 24 hours. Any votes after that point will not count. Discussion is encouraged but not required. Make sure all of your votes are obvious. I should know who you are voting for, basically don't bury your vote in the middle of a paragraph. No alt-voting. Ties will be replayed the next day with the rest of the matches. No vote-saves or rallying for specific characters. Telling people to vote is encouraged but don't tell them how to vote! Don't complain about the seeds, they were the result of a save-my. Because matches can overlap, results will be in this topic. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/61327435
(1)Sirius Black defeats (16)Rodolphus Lestrange 16-0 (1)Sirius Black defeats (8)Lee Jordan 21-7 (1)Sirius Black defeats (5)Dobby 23-8 (1)Sirius Black defeats (2)Ginevra "Ginny" Weasley 27-10
Today's Match: (1)Severus Snape (1)Sirius Black
-- Warning_Crazy Winner of Board 8 Big Brother! i may be running for senatorship (thanks nio) but i'm no SUPERNICEDOG
Sirius seems awesome at first; from the perspective of a young Harry he's a parental figure who is quite indulgent. But he's not exactly responsible, or competent, and makes consistently pretty poor decisions. When we see him in the past, he's a nasty bully.
Severus Snape, on the other hand, starting late book 4 becomes quite interesting. He used to be a death eater but reformed. He's going back to the death eaters as a spy. But what keeps him loyal? Then later, by book 6, he does things like give solid excuses to Bellatrix, and kill Dumbledore, making us wonder if he's just very deep undercover. And of course he actually is. It's a fun little back and forth, and there are more reveals and interesting surprises about Snape than there are about...any other character, besides maaaaybe Dumbledore.
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
GaryOak151 posted... all the fun explanations are gone
Yeah, it's kinda getting to the point where "I've written about these characters four times now; I don't have much to add."
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Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
Snape is a bully. Yes, he loved Lily. That's nice. He was still a horrible bully, and a horrible teacher. Oh but, "He only picked on Harry because he looked like James!" which is not only incredibly shallow, but he still picks on Hermione. But I guess she looks like James too? Or maybe she reminds him of Lily! Oh wait... that'd be a HORRIBLE THING. So I guess he knew some insufferable know-it-all back in school that made him hate Hermione or something, and we just never saw it. Excuses, Excuses.
As a teacher, Snape picks favorites, and those he doesn't like -- he sets out to fail. Which makes him a terrible teacher. As far as subject matter goes, he knows his stuff -- the problem is, even then he isn't teaching them the best of his ability. Only teaching them out of the textbook, when he 100% knows more than the textbooks (having improved on many of them as it is) Sure, he never actually fails Harry. But on several occasions, he goes out of his way to make sure Harry gets a bad grade, such as dumping out his potions.
I'll give you that he's interesting -- but he's not likable. His motivations... are a little weak to be honest though. Yes, he did things 'for love'. That's great motivation... but for those motivations, he goes against his character. For a Dead Dumbledore. He goes to the forest, and gives Harry the sword with his Doe Patronus. But... throughout all previous books, he thought Harry was talentless. And yet, Snape doesn't really question this very much. This development... was sudden. And it's something Rowling does pretty often (See: Draco)
On the other hand, you have Sirius. He's awesome. He's a great godfather who cares very much about Harry. Yes, he goes to kill Peter Pettigrew, when there were other things he should have and could have done. But in the moment, he was reckless, and it doesn't go against his character at all. (Speaking of the Rat, Snape has EVERY REASON to hate Peter Pettigrew, yet we never really see him bully him.)
Post-Azkaban... he goes crazy, and again wants to 'commit the murder he was sentenced for'. And you can't blame him. Peter betrayed them. He's the reason James and Lily are dead. Him and Snape (though I'm not sure SIrius knew that or not.)
One quote describes how much Sirius cares about Harry -- and it's one that really gets me.
"Poor old Snuffles," said Ron, breathing deeply. "He must really like you, Harry.... Imagine having to live off rats."
Then you have him going to the Ministry of Magic (Where he is wanted) because Harry is being led into a trap.
Not to mention he's an animagus (which are cool) and he was James's best friend. Every read through, I find myself liking Sirius more and more. He's one of the few Father figures for Harry (while he has many mother figures). And he's one of the few that treat Harry like an equal. His relationship with Harry is, in my opinion, the second best relationship in the series.
And honestly, as far as "Characters that look evil -- BUT SURPRISE THEY'RE NOT!" go, I think Sirius is done better. There are hints that Sirius isn't really that bad throughout the book, and one all the way back in book 1. Snape on the other hand, we never really learn much of his motivation. Dumbledore handwaves everything in the first book to "Your father saved his life!" which never really turned out to much, and it wasn't something that Snape really cared about.
I did like the portrayal of Snape by the movies. But I'm giving a lot more weight to the books (since the books ARE better). "You have your mother's eyes" was an incredible line. But alas, it wasn't in the books. It MIGHT have been implied. But that's something that could be argued over for hours with no real conclusion other than guesswork.
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See You In Another Life, Brother. New York Giants - The Patriot Slayers
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When you've got a pretty-boy monkey on your back constantly calling you a puppet, you hardly want to seem like you're happy to be used. - DSakaCharanJ
GaryOak151 posted... all the fun explanations are gone
that makes wc a sad panda
anyways i'm voting snape as of now UNLESS SOMEONE CAN CONVINCE ME
Oh well sure, I'll give it a shot. I might as well try to garner up some sympathy votes for the best character in the series. ;)
There are those who might call Sirius reckless, immature, and/or irresponsible. These people are completely correct. However, does this make him a bad character? I would say most definitely not. Sirius is a flawed individual- there's no way around that. However, his flaws make him a far more interesting and likable personality than say Cho Chang or Ronald Weasley. Most glaringly of all, Sirius is loyal to a fault. His most damning flaw isn't his immaturity, or his rash nature which more often than not gets him into trouble; it's his ridiculous sense of righteousness and loyalty (which corresponds to his other dog-like traits, which I may get to later). It's his loyalty for James Potter that compels him to treat Harry more like a best friend than a godson.
Try to look at it from Sirius's POV. You are best friends with someone for what feels like a lifetime. Suddenly you find him "growing up" as you stay the same. Just when it seems like you're losing him, he's completely taken away from you by another "friend" of yours. You know this former friend is guilty, but even more than his admission of guilt is his reasons for doing so. You track him down hoping for an answer, just one fleeting expectation that will fill you with resolution and then you can kill him yourself- consequences be damned. However, in one moment, you are deprived not only of your revenge, but also your resolution as this ex-friend turns on you and pulls off a magnificent stunt that makes you seem the culprit and him, of all people, the hero. Completely outwitted and a bit shell-shocked, you stand there laughing as you cannot even comprehend your next move.
You are taken away for crimes you did not commit...
And then suddenly: a second coming. It's like that best friend from your childhood is revived, and not only that, but standing right within reach! You vow to yourself never to lose him again, but at the same time you realize that this is impossible. You know in your heart that your friend is dead and you will never see him again within the confines of this world, but in this boy, who bears such a striking resemblance to the young man you once knew, there is love, and there is hope. He is gone, but his legacy remains. Out of undying loyalty you will do anything to protect that legacy. Anything.
...
Well that's my interpretation of it anyway. It's rather sweet really. Sure it would be a bit more believable if Sirius were gay, but, while undoubtedly strengthening Sirius and James's relationship, it could only stand to tarnish Sirius and Harry's. Of course... interpretations aren't facts, so more to come later! I'll be back with the facts in a few hours maybe.
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However, Snape also has four more books to be written better than Sirius in, and in Book 4, Sirius plays an extremly minor role. So of course a character with essentially quadruple the screen time is going to get far more moments to shine. That's not Sirius's fault, it's Rowling. She didn't write him as in-depth as Snape because I'm assuming she knew beforehand she was going to sacrifice him a lot sooner than Snape.
Anyway, in the short amount of time he is given Sirius does a spectacular job of being a compelling character (to most), and a likable father-figure for Harry. It's made glaringly obvious that he loves the boy like no other and has willingly risked his own life on several occasions and sacrificed his own health over a long duration of time to make sure Harry stayed safe. He loves Harry as if he's both his own son and his own best friend, and no, I'm afraid I don't find this behavior "creepy". Perhaps if there were even one hint of sexual connotation by Rowling I would find it so, but as it stands Sirius just seems to treat Harry like "an old friend", and Harry treats Sirius as "the closest thing to a parent" he has ever known- I believe these exact phrases are used to describe their relationship.
Regarding his immaturity, Sirius rejects his family's beliefs not out of some petty squabble or "a rebellious streak", but because he's firmly against pureblood elitism and widespread usage of the Dark Arts. His treatment of certain family members absolutely reflects that his opinions are not just some act. Perhaps the posters of bikini-clad Muggles on his walls were overkill, but can you really fault him with proudly displaying his beliefs? His mother disapproved of him as soon as his peculiar tastes became known anyway, so really, what would be the point in even hiding it? Fear of being disowned? He would probably look forward to no longer being associated with that woman!
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And as for his "lack of growth", this is completely false. Sirius does have a small amount of growth comprable to his small amount of screentime. He's about as impetuous as he ever was, yes, but he mellowed out quite a bit as he aged. He was willing to heed Remus and Harry when they told him not to kill Pettigrew when a less mature Sirius would have done committed this act without hesitation, and he got over his personal differences with Snape. Compare this to Severus, who never got over his grudges against Sirius or James, to the point that he verbally and emotionally abused the latter's offspring on many different occasions when Harry had (at the time this behavoir started) done absolutely nothing to incite it. How's that for "lack of growth"?
I'm afraid I'm not getting the "incompetent" argument either. Every time Sirius was overcome in the books by anyone other than Bellatrix, it had been because he was caught off-guard (a la Pettigrew's diversion), or malnourished and weak (in Book 3 by Harry). Not exactly a fair judgment in his competence when there are other factors at work there. The only time he was straight up overpowered was when he wasn't taking his opponent seriously- a fatal flaw, as Bellatrix commands respect. Beyond the Veil and the subsequent chapter provide some of the most powerful scenes in HP. He died in his effort to keep Harry alive, and as this badass quote proves, he wouldv'e done the same for his father:
Sirius: "What was there to be gained by fighting the most evil wizard that ever existed? Only innocent lives, Peter!" Peter: "You don’t understand! He would have killed me, Sirius!" Sirius: "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED! DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!"
True loyalty. Sirius is the best.
So there you are, w_c. I do hope Cloud and Squall's and my own assessments have swayed you, but if not, no biggie. Snape was bound to stomp everything in his path anyway and I'm glad Sirius is losing to a worthy opponent.
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