Board 8 > Desert map with Fog of War and dragon riders/mamkutes everywhere. [Fire Emblem]

(+) Yeah! (+)

With a fragile as F*** shaman forced into your party who needs to survive for the gaiden chapter, and there's a turn limit.

What the HELL, FE6?

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

Aww yeah.

--
Proud ValHellen x Maha_Bufudyne shipper.

it's Fire Emblem 6

a game designed to punish you (though not as much as Fire Emblem 5)

--
Congrats to 2011 Rivalry Rumble Guru winner, SuperNiceDog
http://backloggery.com/articuno2001/sig.gif

I've been stuck at that very chapter for over a month now

please tell me how you beat it (if you do)

--
http://www.backloggery.com/superangelo128 http://myanimelist.net/profile/superange128 http://vndb.org/u6633/votes http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/7524301

I started FE6 the other day.

...

i take it it's not a good place to start if the only other FE game I've played is Shadow Dragon

--
http://img.imgcake.com/AitchDeeTee/panicdancegifta.gif
http://backloggery.com/herodeltiempo/sig.gif

From: HeroDelTiempo17 | #005
I started FE6 the other day.

...

i take it it's not a good place to start if the only other FE game I've played is Shadow Dragon

yeah

you should play 7 or 9 instead

--
Congrats to 2011 Rivalry Rumble Guru winner, SuperNiceDog
http://backloggery.com/articuno2001/sig.gif

I never beat that game. I only ever got to chapter 11.

--
~Halo Give in to The Night.

From: Articuno2001 | #006
yeah

you should play 7 or 9 instead

8 or 10 would be fine as well. I know 10 is a sequel, but I never played 9 and I love 10.

--
~Halo Now darkness takes you... forever.

It's not too terrible in Normal Mode. Hard Mode is absurd, however.

--
~LOLBULLS~
http://h11.abload.de/img/untitled-2ovjj0.gif

The good news is that at least Sophia is decent at avoiding status staffs and maybe enduring a magical hit.

The bad news, of course, is absolutely everything else.

FE6 Chapter 14 is my least favourite chapter in the entire series, I'd have to say.

--
We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

6 is Sacred Stones right?


I loved that game

--
yE frE me Kweku Ananse Papa
me:http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1508/masterplumgm3.jpg

From: masterplum | #011
6 is Sacred Stones right?


I loved that game

8 is Sacred Stones.

--
Pun's Rendition of Myself: http://img.imgcake.com/Punny/TYDERpngyr.png
Anime List: http://myanimelist.net/profile/tyder21

From: tyder21 | #012
8 is Sacred Stones.

oh


nevermind then

--
yE frE me Kweku Ananse Papa
me:http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1508/masterplumgm3.jpg

Sacred Stones never got a sequel, right? Bit strange, aren't the other games all connected to at least one other game?

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

From: Anagram | #014
Sacred Stones never got a sequel, right? Bit strange, aren't the other games all connected to at least one other game?

I'm not sure all of them are, are they?

--
"Later..." <Toonami> <4/1/2012> <Never Forget> ~SCP~
http://img.imgcake.com/Jeffzeropngus.png

Yep, Sacred Stones is the only game to exist in its own continuity (unless there's some "oh it's a different continent 50 billion years in the past/future" stuff going on like with the Archanea/Jugdral games). First three are all connected, 4th and 5th are connected to each other, 6th and 7th go together, 9th and 10th together, and the new one is in the distant future of the setting of the first three.

--
Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

Huh, weird.

--
"Later..." <Toonami> <4/1/2012> <Never Forget> ~SCP~
http://img.imgcake.com/Jeffzeropngus.png

FE3 is a two-part remake of and sequel to FE1. FE2 is a side story taking place in the same world as FE1/3. FE5 takes place during FE4. FE7 is a prequel to FE6. FE10 is a sequel to FE9. FE8 is indeed the odd one out!

What the HELL, FE6?

You didn't mention the horde of bandit reinforcements with two berserkers for backup? I mean, sure, they have uniformly bad accuracy, but all they need is one good hit and -splat-.

--
I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer.

You forgot that there's hidden treasure all over the map as well. >_>

--
We'll show her the power of a dream.

Is it normal mode?

It's not that bad, keep Sophia out of the way and you'll be ok. Why would you use her when you have Ray.

--
SuperNiceDog won the Guru contest super nicely!

From: SuperAngelo128 | #004
I've been stuck at that very chapter for over a month now

please tell me how you beat it (if you do)

Well I suppose I can share some wisdom.

General desert map unit selection applies. Make some room for magic and flying units. One thief. If you want to bring in others, make sure they're either promoted or at least ready for promotion. My personal party aside from the forced units was Ellen, Miledy, Thany, Dieck*, Rutger*, Lugh, Ray, Lilina*, Gonzales, and Cath.

Mamkutes are only an issue if you're in their line of fire. They refuse to move for any other reason. Unless you're carrying a Wyrm Slayer, avoid at all costs. If you have a torch, use it to find their initial location then mentally mark the "safe zones."

http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/563015-fire-emblem-fuuin-no-tsurugi/faqs/62608

Two/three wyvern riders and one wyvern lord hang around both C and F. Keep units that you know can take a hit from all three/four of them up near those points. Then have your mages go to work on them. If they've been keeping up, they shouldn't have much trouble doubling them, or at least blasting their health way down.

The ledge up near D is a cakewalk. Bunch of mercs, some mages, and one hero. No dragons of any kind, so it shouldn't be too difficult.

When collecting treasure, theplaces you need to be concerned about are A, B,C, and F, because they're so far out of the way of the rest of the map. The best way to get your thief to F is to hitch a ride with one of your fliers that you definitely should have brought. The rest of the treasure, you walk over naturally as you proceed through the level. H can only be found by Sophia, but she finds it automatically and she has good enough movement. Just be sure to clean up the path to is

Leave Sophia out of the action entirely otherwise. She dies to a slight breeze and her accuracy, even for a shaman, is abysmal. She needs to survive for the gaiden chapter.

As for the reinforcements, they never concerned me too much. As long as you've been moving forward constantly they have approximately no chance of reaching you. If push comes to shove, rescue with a flier and get out of there.

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

From: SuorGenoveffa | #020
It's not that bad, keep Sophia out of the way and you'll be ok. Why would you use her when you have Ray.

Sophia is infinitely cuter.

--
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2664/7b7aaa038007832d461b28c.jpg

Ray > Sophia and this chapter isn't that bad, merely annoying. I love FE6

Everything (except Wendy maybe) > Sophia

<_<

--
We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

What's the turn limit?

--
No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga
I wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE

25

--
Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

I have a hard time seeing that turn limit actually become an issue in practice, especially since you want to keep moving to avoid being completely swarmed by the bandits.

I actually really like this chapter but I like tough maps in FE. Although yes, you may lose Sophia to BS once or twice before you learn where the wyverns are hiding.

--
The RPG Duelling League: www.rpgdl.com
An unparalleled source for RPG information and discussion

From: Panthera | #024
Everything (except Wendy maybe) > Sophia

<_<

Wendy is either great or unusable entirely.

Her growths just work that way.

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

Wendy is unusable entirely without insane babying. There are enemies (several Archers and I think all Mages) that ORKO her. Literally every enemy except maybe Thieves 2RKO her. She does no damage (something like 8 hits to kill Archers) unless you give her a stronger weapon (I don't know if she has the rank for it or not), but then she weighs herself down and now everything other than Soldiers and Knights get to ORKO her, and her accuracy is shaky as hell, and she still does **** damage. There's seriously no way to have her be good without deliberately setting out to try to make it happen, because she's incapable of contributing whatsoever on her own.

--
Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

From: Panthera | #029
Wendy is unusable entirely without insane babying.

There's an arena in, like, the next one or two chapters, no?

Ball's in your court.

Granted, she has horrible bases for the chapter she comes in.

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

Spending an eternity on the arena, especially with a character who is fragile, slow and has shaky accuracy and therefore isn't making any progress without ridiculous luck or save state abuse (or just resetting for ages if you're doing it "legit") is pretty much as insane as babying can get.

--
Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

Especially because if you really wanted to do that, you could invest the same time in one of the cavaliers or Thany and get results that are even better (since they're not locked to a terrible class to be in a game with big maps)

--
Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

FE6 is man mode.

--
Whatever...

The next arena after Wendy joins is in Chapter 11 (on Echidna's route only). As Panthera observes, sending Wendy into the arena is risky, so I recommend that anyone who wishes to do so support abuse first. FE6's arena does not take away support bonuses, and entering an "even fight" with something like +3 Atk, +15 Hit and +7 Avoid from A Bors alone can make a world of difference.

--
I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer.

Sophia haterz. She doesn't take that much work to baby you just need to pick your spots right, weaken guys up for her, and shoot for some deathblows that have only like 60% to hit with her and hope you get lucky. Once she gets a few levels she's usable.

Anyway I'm pretty sure my strategy for this map was "ignore the gaiden chapter and drag my ass" but I'm not sure. The 25 turn limit isn't too restricting, though. Once you know where the units actually are it becomes manageable. Which is the big problem with this map it's more memorization than real strategy since Wyverns fly in from offscreen even with torch/a thief and stab you if you're not careful. I'd dread the hell out of this map if I was playing iron man style, though. (which I usually do for the most part unless my death resulted from "I couldn't have possibly have planned against that without advance knowledge of the map" which uh... applies to most of FE6's maps actually given the way their reinforcements work so yeah I'm not big on it for this one)

--
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

People on this board vastly overestimate how hard it is/how much effort it takes to level low level characters in this series on the whole.

--
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2664/7b7aaa038007832d461b28c.jpg

From: tcaz2 | #036
People on this board vastly overestimate how hard it is/how much effort it takes to level low level characters in this series on the whole.

I used Wendy until I found out she got supremely screwed in strength and Lance followed Alan in hulking out and became worthy of my next knight crest. I used Nino in my first FE7 run.

Don't tell ME how to babysit.

--
I like how each new topic you make reveals such varied facets of your idiocy. - foolmo
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

If this game's RNG works the same way 7's does, there's a way to manipulate the RNG to always find hidden desert items. Said method of doing so is absurd though!

--
Geologists will date anything.

Spellcasters are really easy to baby sit as they can usually do a few damage against most enemies which is all you need-- a few last hits after you plink a guy down to like 3 hp. Also most of the units that have low speed also have low magic resist so it's even easier.

Low strength physical attackers are the problem. Low defense spellcasters are slightly tougher to approach and there are less of them around. You could also swing at a myrmidon but good luck hitting. Doing 0 against the easy to hit knights sucks though. Course in Wendy's case her move range is also 4 which makes thing even worse.

--
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

From: tcaz2 | #036
People on this board vastly overestimate how hard it is/how much effort it takes to level low level characters in this series on the whole.

...no? People on this board overrate the hell out of terrible characters that require massive babying to contribute anything of value, characters like Wendy and Sophia and Nino are indeed hard to level up without requiring your strategy to be focused more on getting kills for them than it is on actually completing the chapter.

--
Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

From: AlphaRayAllen | #037
Don't tell ME how to babysit.

Just because you did stuff like that doesn't mean you're any good at it.

And I wasn't even talking about you specifically.

From: Lopen | #039
Low strength physical attackers are the problem.

They're definitely harder, yeah. I still don't think it takes as much effort as everyone on this board seems to think it does though.

--
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2664/7b7aaa038007832d461b28c.jpg

From: Panthera | #040
...no? People on this board overrate the hell out of terrible characters that require massive babying to contribute anything of value, characters like Wendy and Sophia and Nino are indeed hard to level up without requiring your strategy to be focused more on getting kills for them than it is on actually completing the chapter.

It takes all of 2 seconds to process the thought required to leave an enemy with low health and then kill them with the other character.

You can have Nino and Sophia up to a usable level the chapter after you get them, and up to par with the rest of your team within 3. Wendy is more of a challenge due to low hit rate, but it's still not very hard.

And 'lol playing efficiently'. Waste of time when you could be having fun.

--
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2664/7b7aaa038007832d461b28c.jpg

From: tcaz2 | #042
It takes all of 2 seconds to process the thought required to leave an enemy with low health and then kill them with the other character.

You can have Nino and Sophia up to a usable level the chapter after you get them, and up to par with the rest of your team within 3. Wendy is more of a challenge due to low hit rate, but it's still not very hard.

It also takes all of 2 seconds to realize that it's pretty pointless to leave enemies alive so a character with poor accuracy can try to clean up, especially when the "low health" range isn't all that big because of how weak the unit in question is, instead of just killing enemies effectively and not basing your strategy around babying a weak character that doesn't even amount to anything (Wendy is the worst for this, at least Sophia ends up being good for staff usage, although it's still not really worth it), especially since it still doesn't even make the characters in question "good" because any other character that got the same treatment would become great and do it quicker.

And 'lol playing efficiently'. Waste of time when you could be having fun.

Well aren't you a ridiculously smug elitist.

--
Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

the babying is pretty useful if you're going for a good exp rank

--
Geologists will date anything.

Only gets harder from there unfortunately. Great game though.

--
XBL: Mik Pick
PSN: Mik2Pick

If you care about ranks, sure.

I personally hate the FE7 style ranking system though, feels way too arbitrary and counter-productive (when you think about what makes for good tactics, deliberately deploying weaker characters and never using any of your good stuff does not come to mind, it's why I only like the EXP rank in FE4 because deployment isn't limited), plus it wasn't even set up properly in the game (Hector mode exclusive chapters don't get accounted for at all so their existence automatically lowers your tactics rank while making EXP and arguably Funds easier for no reason).

--
We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

I quite like the FE7 ranking style. Yes, it encourages you to do counterproductive things. That's the point! The "Play Through The Game Normally, No Obligations" challenge is not, in fact, a challenge. And while a low turn count run has to figure out how to clear chapters quickly at the expense of all else, a ranking run has to determine how to clear chapters quickly without expending all else. How to get the treasure, kill the baddies, and save the day, all without leaning too hard on overlevelled units and while keeping an eye out for opportunities to give weaker troops their fifteen minutes of fame.

As for arbitrary, well. If you and I both beat a playthrough and our results are similar by most metrics, but I still have twenty thousand gold left over and you're flat broke, then couldn't we say that I have shown superior tactical skill by using less to achieve just as much?

--
I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer.

If we're the same in every other way, yes, but will we be? If you pull that off, it's because you're just plain better at the game than I am anyway (or you had great luck with the RNG/I had bad luck), and you'd have finished in fewer turns if you had used those resources. Which is kind of the point to me - things like stat boosters aren't there to sit around, gems aren't there to sit around, they're there to convert into other useful things for your army that will let you achieve things. If the funds ranking were based on how much you collected, not kept to the end, I'd probably like it a lot more.

The main thing for me is just that it feels like it doesn't make a lot of sense from either a gameplay or a character perspective. From a gameplay perspective, anything that encourages you to not use your valuable items feels very silly because to me, it means it defeats the point of having those things in the first place. From an in-character perspective, I don't see why the generic tactician I play would be deliberately sending weaker fighters into combat when stronger ones are available, or why he'd be super conservative with valuable items when he knows the fate of the world is at stake.

FE4's rankings work better to me because the lack of a deployment limit means that you're not fielding inferior units for their own sake, you're always deploying everyone and trying to make use of everyone (in theory at least, in practice it still ends up being "find arbitrary tasks to leave for the scrub brigade" a fair bit of the time), and from an in-character perspective, it makes sense that Sigurd/Celice would be wanting to get the best contribution possible from all of their army (which doesn't exist in FE7 since the deployment limit contradicts that goal), as well as making good tactical decisions, preserving lives and keeping castles intact.

And then FE5 has the most coherent system since all it asks of you is to do things that make sense (recruit everyone and get low turn counts), though it has the glaring flaw that to get the best rank you'll have to warp skip a ton of maps. And it means you have to recruit Xavier, and any ranking system that requires that is a sadistic master indeed.

--
We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny

speaking of hard levels in FE6

I was surprised I was able to get through the level before the desert (the one with two long bridges)

--
http://www.backloggery.com/superangelo128 http://myanimelist.net/profile/superange128 http://vndb.org/u6633/votes http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/7524301

If you pull that off, it's because you're just plain better at the game than I am anyway (or you had great luck with the RNG/I had bad luck), and you'd have finished in fewer turns if you had used those resources.

Not all advantages will be reflected by turncount, though, and I certainly don't like the implication that no other metric has significance. Is it impossible to improve on a LTC strategy in Talons Alight because any success is a 7-turn? Surely not!

The main thing for me is just that it feels like it doesn't make a lot of sense from either a gameplay or a character perspective.

By playing for Funds, you're giving up short-term advantages in return for long-term flexibility, both in and out of universe. Perhaps you give the first Speedwings to Alan while I hold it in reserve; later we find that Lance is one Speedwings short of some important ORKO. I can still get that KO, and if I was able to maintain parity in other departments despite my weaker Alan, then my skills are demonstrably superior.

Now, in order to maximize Funds, you have to never use that Speedwings. Out of universe, that's fine, because it means you have beaten the Never Use That Speedwings Challenge. In-universe, who is to say that you know ahead of time when the final battle will be, and what you'll need to win it? It's best to hold your resources until emergencies, so that when emergencies inevitably happen, you are prepared.

By playing for EXP, you are again maximizing endgame power, by ensuring that your team gains as many levels as possible. In theory, anyway - I agree that deployment limitations and suchlike mean that theory does not always apply to practice, here. You also get some flexibility and whatnot, by having more viable characters to choose from. But a better reason in-universe is that you're supposed to be commanding an army, not picking statblocks from a list. You might only bring a third of the party to deal with the Evil Overlord, but the other two-thirds still need to be ready to hold off his Army of Darkness. Leave some poor kid green the entire war just because the only thing she brings to battle is courage, and she might be going home on a shield. Meanwhile, your top fighters are not tireless, and having them in the thick of battle all day every day is just asking for trouble. Just because only one game has S Drinks doesn't mean no one in the others feels fatigue!

All that said, it is my belief that the primary justification of the EXP Ranking is "discourages people from relying on a small, overlevelled team", and to be perfectly honest I am OK with that. I personally find strategies like "dump a hojillion BEXP on this unit, have them solo chapters" to be repugnant.

And then FE5 has the most coherent system since all it asks of you is to do things that make sense (recruit everyone and get low turn counts), though it has the glaring flaw that to get the best rank you'll have to warp skip a ton of maps.

But those limited criteria are exactly my issue with it! Particularly since I tend to view "recruit all units and keep them alive" as an implicit goal of any non-Shadow Dragon playthrough. (If I ever play FE5... well, I'll recruit everyone at least once. After that I may consider making an exception or two.) That leaves FE5's ranking system with one true goal, and a FE5 ranking run as absurdly overspecialized. In a FE7 ranking run, you're challenged to utilize your resources to achieve multiple conflicting goals as best as possible, to come up with a plan that can fulfill all the requirements and not merely one. In FE5, you're striving single-minded after a solitary goal. Which allows you to achieve laserlike focus, sure, but such single-minded obsession does not interest me.

--
I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer.