From: MalcolmMasher | #050 Not all advantages will be reflected by turncount, though, and I certainly don't like the implication that no other metric has significance. Is it impossible to improve on a LTC strategy in Talons Alight because any success is a 7-turn? Surely not!
Turns are the best metric since they're the only really solidly quantifiable thing to judge by (EXP doesn't even mean anything on its own, same with funds), everything else you can go by is ridiculously subjective to the point of being pretty impossible to judge (even reliability, what success rate makes a strategy good? Who knows?). The best part is that other factors are pretty much included anyway - if your strategy in one chapter prevented your units from leveling up so much that it slows you down in another, that will end up being reflected in the final turn count more effectively than any experience rank will demonstrate, since so much of that isn't even useful, it's just finding as much irrelevant busy work to do as possible (hence why staff users are extra good for ranked runs even when you're not in a game like FE5 where staffs are god, they can benefit your EXP rank while doing utterly irrelevant things).
By playing for Funds, you're giving up short-term advantages in return for long-term flexibility, both in and out of universe. Perhaps you give the first Speedwings to Alan while I hold it in reserve; later we find that Lance is one Speedwings short of some important ORKO. I can still get that KO, and if I was able to maintain parity in other departments despite my weaker Alan, then my skills are demonstrably superior.
Not really, since this is a faulty comparison - you're assuming that using resources earlier can't be done to any effect. Why are we assuming that you're using the Speedwings to get something useful while not assuming that I'm using the Speedwings for something useful as well? If we're equal in skill, then you're not going to maintaining parity, because I'll have used that Speedwings intelligently too, and its bonus will be in play longer, giving me more time to make use of it. I lose the ability to get a specific boost at a later date, sure, but I still get that same potential "must score big ORKO" opportunity and I also have the stronger team until you use it on your playthrough, assuming the RNG is being reasonably fair with each of us.
Now, in order to maximize Funds, you have to never use that Speedwings. Out of universe, that's fine, because it means you have beaten the Never Use That Speedwings Challenge.
I fail to see how this is a particularly interesting or enjoyable challenge <_<
In-universe, who is to say that you know ahead of time when the final battle will be, and what you'll need to win it? It's best to hold your resources until emergencies, so that when emergencies inevitably happen, you are prepared.
In-universe, you don't get to reset the game either, and you don't know emergencies until they're too late (the player can know to bring along a Luna tome to FE7 Final but Hector and co. certainly don't know what they're about to fight). Saving on weapon uses is one thing, but stat boosters provide a permanent boost that is always in play, it makes your army stronger and doesn't run out. Gems are even worse since to get the best Funds rank you can't even use them to do anything other than look pretty.
Character limit reached, holy long post Batman!
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
But a better reason in-universe is that you're supposed to be commanding an army, not picking statblocks from a list. You might only bring a third of the party to deal with the Evil Overlord, but the other two-thirds still need to be ready to hold off his Army of Darkness.
You can't both be not giving people experience and be having the rest of your army's abilities matter. The deployment limit issue is mostly a gameplay thing since characters, in-story, don't necessarily "level up" so the guys who aren't fighting are probably still doing just fine.
Meanwhile, your top fighters are not tireless, and having them in the thick of battle all day every day is just asking for trouble. Just because only one game has S Drinks doesn't mean no one in the others feels fatigue!
The series almost always handles this off-screen anyway. FE4 has long gaps in between most chapters, and most chapters are implied to last quite a while, which likely includes down time happening. GBA games have support conversations often mentioning all kinds of off-duty stuff that suggests that being deployed on every map doesn't mean you aren't resting, and a lot of games have chapters that even have it directly pointed out in dialogue that everyone is going to be resting up after the current battle.
All that said, it is my belief that the primary justification of the EXP Ranking is "discourages people from relying on a small, overlevelled team", and to be perfectly honest I am OK with that. I personally find strategies like "dump a hojillion BEXP on this unit, have them solo chapters" to be repugnant.
BEXP isn't in any game with rankings <_< Anyway the problem with that justification is...well...it kind of sucks. I prefer to use a specific team, being forced to deploy random scrubs I don't want to use isn't exactly fun. It's why I don't like Thracia's fatigue system all that much and only refrain from being too harsh on it because it makes staffs only quite broken instead of SUPER broken.
But those limited criteria are exactly my issue with it! Particularly since I tend to view "recruit all units and keep them alive" as an implicit goal of any non-Shadow Dragon playthrough.
And that's exactly why I like it! It's not asking me to do any weird side stuff, it's not asking me to collect awesome stuff and just let it sit in the convoy because it's considered bad strategy to want to actually use your resources, it's not asking me to use characters I don't give a **** about (the fatigue system is, but not the ranking guidelines) for the hell of it, it's asking me to beat the game efficiently, recruit everyone, which is a goal I like to go for anyway when Xavier is not involved (because **** Xavier) and to do that however I feel like. Use whoever I want, use whatever stuff I want, play the game however I enjoy it within the confines of finishing in few turns, which is something I like to do in some playthroughs anyway. And the turn limit being as low as it ends up putting the resource management levels up there with other games anyway.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
Turns are the best metric since they're the only really solidly quantifiable thing to judge by (EXP doesn't even mean anything on its own, same with funds)
But as you're implicitly conceding here, EXP and Funds are entirely quantifiable. It's arbitrary to use them as a standard, but anything other than "beat the game / did not beat the game" is some degree of arbitrary, it's just a question of how many lines we want to draw and where.
The best part is that other factors are pretty much included anyway - if your strategy in one chapter prevented your units from leveling up so much that it slows you down in another, that will end up being reflected in the final turn count
It seems to me that you're saying non-turncount rankings are useless because either they can be converted into turncount, in which case the player should have done so, or they cannot be converted into turncount, in which case they are meaningless. In other words, you're saying that non-turncount rankings are useless because rankings that aren't turncount are useless. I trust you can see why I have an issue with that argument.
If we're equal in skill, then you're not going to maintaining parity, because I'll have used that Speedwings intelligently too, and its bonus will be in play longer, giving me more time to make use of it.
If we're equal in skill and following my assumptions, then we are maintaining parity, because you (like me) would recognize that the immediate benefit from the Speedwings (assumed to be insignificant) is outweighed by the potential benefit of the Speedwings (unknown, possibly significant). In other words, the intelligent approach in this hypothetical is actually to sit on this item.
I fail to see how this is a particularly interesting or enjoyable challenge <_<
I am a born pack rat, and I assure you that I get the warm fuzzies when I see all the stat boosters my supply convoy is lugging around by endgame. I'm not saying I don't believe you, ya dig? I'm just sayin' that you are missing out. >_>
Having to hoard gems in order to maximize FE7 Funds is dumb, though. No disagreement there! I mean, I'm okay with hoarding on general principle as well as to maximize resource fluidity, but gems are literally useless until sold.
-- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer.
In-universe, you don't get to reset the game either, and you don't know emergencies until they're too late
In-universe, the tactician knows an emergency when he looks at the battlefield. I mean, I am assuming that even in-universe, the army's tactician is actually going "Okay, I've taken a look at what we're up against. I want these guys in the attack team, and this is the plan." I'll grant you that this would not account for things like Wyvern Lords out of the Fog of War, but it handles "I'm just one Speedwings short of doubling this boss" just fine.
Whoa, I was actually back on topic for a moment there. Dizzying.
You can't both be not giving people experience and be having the rest of your army's abilities matter.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Is your argument that EXP is a gameplay abstraction which has no business in the "realistic" interpretation being discussed?
The series almost always handles this off-screen anyway
I'm pretty sure that FE5 has breaks between some of its chapters, because that would be logical. And I'm pretty sure that they don't reduce Fatigue, because that would be merciful. So the evidence suggests that FE characters can only truly rest when they know their comrades are fighting for their lives somewhere else. <_< On a more serious note, I'm perfectly willing to assume that a longer break from combat is more restful than a short one.
BEXP isn't in any game with rankings <_<
Brother man, I am bringing up points related to games I have never even played and casually assuming that you're familiar with any background material or game mechanic that is even vaguely pertinent. You'd better believe I'm willing to assume that you can understand how massive, targeted BEXP dumps are an extreme form of the "overlevel a small team" strategy which is viable, even recommended, in just about every FE... but not optimal in ranking runs.
I prefer to use a specific team, being forced to deploy random scrubs I don't want to use isn't exactly fun.
I don't go into the game knowing who I'm going to use. I mean, that's part of the FE experience, to me; every playthrough is different. Sometimes, units with bad averages get good stat growth anyway. But in order to have a playthrough where some random scrub gets lucky, you must first have a playthrough where some random scrub gets EXP. That's one of the strengths of the EXP rank. It encourages you to change things up a bit. To actually get some mileage out of the the vast, chaotic party that is part of a typical Fire Emblem game, instead of using the same team every time.
It actually kind of annoys me when the game gives me a random scrub and _doesn't_ force me to deploy them; I'd like to give them a chance, but that doesn't mean I want to burn a unit slot on it. (People that are in practice beyond redemption, such as topical Sophia, are another issue entirely.)
it's not asking me to collect awesome stuff and just let it sit in the convoy because it's considered bad strategy to want to actually use your resources
Point of order! It's not bad strategy to use your resources. But it is good strategy to conserve your resources. That way, you still have the resources! If you're so good at making do without that you never actually need to use 'em, then that's damn good strategy. A firm foundation for the new royal treasury!
Nonetheless, it looks like we're not going to be able to reach an agreement on the "I like having to strive to meet multiple objectives simultaneously" versus "I like being able to concentrate on one objective" front.
-- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer.