Board 8 > Freedom, Liberty, Ron Paul - The Topic [Tom Woods] [Bob Murphy] [Adam Kokesh]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well, the scientific theory of global warming is just that we are warming the climate, not that it's necessarily bad for humans.

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I'd actually say the fact that the free market seems to be trying extremely hard to discredit the scientific consensus on global warming may be the single biggest strike against it.

Or at least, it's my impression that the free market is the guilty party here. I'm curious if you think it's due to state-sanctioned monopolies... there's probably a decent argument for it.

Well, you assume that those who would attempt to discredit the "consensus" are doing it only out of free market ideologies and not out of legitimate scientific dissent. Which I will allow you to do, so long as you admit it's no more or less legitimate than my repeated observations that the main body of people who seem really concerned about climate change are the same people who have always been arguing for oppressive global government anyway.

It's just one big giant coincidence that every scientist who favors the free market doesn't believe in AGW but every scientist who is a giant socialist does!

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
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What? Most scientists haven't expressed a public opinion on small government vs. big government.

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http://mises.org/daily/6138/The-Tyranny-of-the-Cultural-Curators

Very important piece here. I regularly read National Geographic, and they occasionally have pieces about "primitive cultures" or whatever you call them, and I've always been uneasy about them because they draw the opposite conclusion of this article. I remember one article about a remote tribe in the mountains of Mexico who was just beginning to interact with the outside world. They asked one of the oldest women in the tribe what she wanted the most, presumably expecting her to say something like "for the outsiders to pack up all their pollution and leave us alone to live in peace and harmony with nature."

Her actual answer? A refrigerator.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
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More reading for the AnCap class, this one an unpublished paper by Dr. Murphy regarding how the market would react if global warming were 100% true and real including how this could apply to any large externality.

I'd actually say the fact that the free market seems to be trying extremely hard to discredit the scientific consensus on global warming may be the single biggest strike against it.

Or at least, it's my impression that the free market is the guilty party here. I'm curious if you think it's due to state-sanctioned monopolies... there's probably a decent argument for it.

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Sorry, I didn't mean to apply that exclusively to scientists. It holds true to the general population. My point is that his accusation is true, but it all depends on how you frame the issue. It's a glass half empty/glass half full thing. One man's observation that all the free-market thinkers tend to not believe in AGW is another man's observation that everyone who believes in AGW (not just that it is happening, but that it is entirely due to human activity and will result in terrible catastrophes if not prevented) just happens to be a socialist.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
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http://thetippingpoint.bangordailynews.com/2012/08/10/state-politics/lepage-rnc-conflict/

Pretty legit guy. Maybe he realizes that all of Maine's political positions have been taken over by RP supporters, so it's just good politics to support them.

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_foolmo_
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I haven't noticed that though. For example, I believe in global warming, and am not a socialist.

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He's not prosecuting marijuana use though. States do it. California basically does not, and you don't see federal police coming in to shut down the ("medical") marijuana dispensaries.

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Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick
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I'm pretty sure President Obama is for the non-prosecution of marijuana use. At least deep down he is, but he must keep up appearances for the public.

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Oh yes, that's not surprising to anyone who thinks about it. It's their grandchildren who are the first ones to regret leaving the old life behind.

The other thing is that once modern society stops giving things to remote cultures, it's much harder for them to live in modern society. The anthropologists that visit this group of people can give them refrigerators, but if they don't? How are these people supposed to buy refrigerators on the market? They have learned no modern skills that would enable them to earn a living in modern society.

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Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick
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but if they don't? How are these people supposed to buy refrigerators on the market? They have learned no modern skills that would enable them to earn a living in modern society.

It's hard but not impossible. In the article, some local kids were leaving the village to do menial labor in outside towns. They would use their money to buy bags of potato chips. While the author of the piece shed a single tear when she witnessed a discarded Fritos bag on the side of a pristine nature trail, the mothers of the family were quite happy that their children were eating Fritos, as it meant she didn't have to spend as many hours toiling to make corn tortillas by hand.

In any case, that's how it happens. The youth leave and can assimilate in time to learn valuable skills.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
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From: red sox 777 | #400

you don't see federal police coming in to shut down the ("medical") marijuana dispensaries

I thought this has happened at least once, but I don't really follow that stuff closely so I dunno. And I think there are plenty of people in federal prisons for marijuana use/possesion.

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_foolmo_
'To be foolmo'd is to be better opinion'd.' - Blairville

Also, keep in mind that "modern society" is relative.

I'm sure the towns that closely border these tribes... well... they aren't exactly New York City, you know?

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His personal convictions are entirely pointless if he's not gonna act on them

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_foolmo_
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As far as the scientific consensus on global warming goes, I think most scientists would agree that they don't understand the climate system of the planet very well, and can only make rough predictions, but that they are confident global warming does exist, and humans do have some significant role in it.

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Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick
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It was a test case filed by people in California who preemptively wanted the courts to say the feds could not enforce federal marijuana laws against medical marijuana patients in CA, IIRC. They lost, but as far as I know the feds have never used the ruling to actually go after people for mere possession.

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Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick
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Well, I'll just take this opportunity to remind everyone that those who believe in AGW essentially have to prove four separate things. If any of them are wrong, the entire argument falls apart.

1. The planet is warming at a rate that cannot be written off as a natural cycle/phenomena.

2. This abnormal warming is in large part due to man-made CO2 emissions.

3. This abnormal warming will result in a net harm to humanity at large.

4. Any individual proposed solution to AGW passes a cost-benefit analysis (that is to say, the gains from the elimination of AGW would offset the cost of the proposal).

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
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From: red sox 777 | #407

I haven't noticed that though. For example, I believe in global warming, and am not a socialist.

Then you're part of a minority that is small enough to be statistically insignificant.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/