Current Events > 'You have freedom of speech, but you are free to be punished for what you say'

(+) Yeah! (+)

A philosophy of modern fascists
---

the government can't punish you. what other people do is not controlled by the constitution.
---

When has this ever been said?
---

Phantom_Nook posted...

When has this ever been said?

That phrase has probably never been said, but that is definitely a belief of some people
---

the government can't punish you. what other people do is not controlled by the constitution.

This. It's a very simple concept
---

It doesn't matter what the constitution says. You have a moral obligation to protect freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is one of the most basic human freedoms, and saying "oh, the constitution only says this..." is anti-free speech

The Constitution didn't invent freedom of speech.
---

no its the law

isnt freedom of speech just the right to not be arrested for what you say? that doesn't stop others from banning hate speech in a certain private area or schools censoring what you say
---

Freedom of Speech does not exist so long as it is illegal to verbally threaten someone or their family.
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

It doesn't matter what the constitution says. You have a moral obligation to protect freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is one of the most basic human freedoms, and saying "oh, the constitution only says this..." is anti-free speech

The Constitution didn't invent freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech doesn't exist. It's a man made idea that we tried to protect by writing laws about it in the constitution. It's a nice idea, but that's all it is.
---

Stallion_Prime posted...

isnt freedom of speech just the right to not be arrested for what you say? that doesn't stop others from banning hate speech in a certain private area or schools censoring what you say

Or a message board banning your account because you said something racist.
---

https://xkcd.com/1357/
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

the government can't punish you. what other people do is not controlled by the constitution.

Actually you are protected from violence under the Constitution.
---

Mal_Fet posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

the government can't punish you. what other people do is not controlled by the constitution.

Actually you are protected from violence under the Constitution.

Incorrect. There is nothing in the constitution that protects you from violence.

There are state / federal laws that prohibit it, but nothing in the constitution itself. The constitution is a document that describes the powers, limitations, and responsibilities of the government.
---

charey posted...

https://xkcd.com/1357/

This is a the opinion of someone in a hivemind, and unsurprisingly whenever xkcd gives an opinion it's one that is popular among its audience.

The concept of free speech means listening to what everyone has to say, and have a mature argument with someone if you disagree with them. Not just shutting your ears or insulting them.
---

US Citizens cannot be punished by the US government for just saying words.
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

A philosophy of modern fascists

The House Un-American Activities Committee?
---

Do you want to prevent entrenched private power from holding significant sway over our lives?

Because I'm down with that.
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

the government can't punish you. what other people do is not controlled by the constitution.

Actually you are protected from violence under the Constitution.

Incorrect. There is nothing in the constitution that protects you from violence.

There are state / federal laws that prohibit it, but nothing in the constitution itself. The constitution is a document that describes the powers, limitations, and responsibilities of the government.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaM7gN8glG0
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

The concept of free speech means listening to what everyone has to say, and have a mature argument with someone if you disagree with them. Not just shutting your ears or insulting them.

So now you want to encroach on individual's freedom to not listen to whatever stupid things come out of other people's mouths? Why are you against their freedom of expression?
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

It doesn't matter what the constitution says. You have a moral obligation to protect freedom of speech.

Sounds like you want to censor people saying things you don't agree with... Boy I think I've heard that somewhere...
---

Obviously they are listening if they are doing whatever is in their power to punish that that person for what they say.
---

@I Like Toast

I'm not really sure how you got that out of my post.
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

what other people do is not controlled by the constitution.

uhhh yeah it is
---

Do you want to prevent bosses from unilaterally firing employees for their political views?
---

Antifar posted...

Do you want to prevent bosses from unilaterally firing employees for their political views?

This is ultimately treading down a dangerous path. If, for example, some EA employee started posting vocally on twitter about how Hitler was right and EA couldn't fire them, it'd be a disaster for their company. OTOH, I don't think people should be fired merely for saying things like they voted for Trump even though Trump is a dick wad.
---

Should someone be fired for making fun of Trump? Should they be fired for supporting Trump? Because both would get a lot of criticism and be terrible for the company.

This type of thing should be decided on a case-by-case basis and not based on an all-encompassing ideology
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

Incorrect. There is nothing in the constitution that protects you from violence.

There are state / federal laws that prohibit it, but nothing in the constitution itself.

So it's a good thing the Constitution specifically dictates that all citizens be protected equally under every state constitution, huh?

Which includes laws against violence regardless of creed
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

Should someone be fired for making fun of Trump? Should they be fired for supporting Trump? Because both would get a lot of criticism and be terrible for the company.

This type of thing should be decided on a case-by-case basis and not based on an all-encompassing ideology

Nobody would care if a company made fun of Trump. He's incredibly unpopular.
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

The concept of free speech means listening to what everyone has to say, and have a mature argument with someone if you disagree with them. Not just shutting your ears or insulting them.

This is so incorrect it honestly surprises me that it came from an adult.
---

^That's a great insult bro

People being friendly toward one another regardless of their individual opinions is a good thing. It's a good thing to understand why other people think the way they do.
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

It's a good thing to understand why other people think the way they do.

In your case it's clearly a lack of education.
---

Damn, so many insults.

I thought you guys were supposed to be tolerant of other people.
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

The concept of free speech means listening to what everyone has to say, and have a mature argument with someone if you disagree with them. .

That is 100% not what it means.
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

Damn, so many insults.

I thought you guys were supposed to be tolerant of other people.

So in your head does freedom of speech not cover insults or something?
---

people that say this are basically saying its ok to attack someone for what they said. "you are free from the government, but not free from me!" *punches them in the face*

it's a dangerous attitude

Damn_Underscore posted...

Should someone be fired for making fun of Trump? Should they be fired for supporting Trump? Because both would get a lot of criticism and be terrible for the company.

This type of thing should be decided on a case-by-case basis and not based on an all-encompassing ideology

Being fired is the biggest punishment most people can or will face as adults. It's what much of the red scare and its blacklists amounted to. If you aren't gonna try to stop people from being fired, then what punishment are you even talking about here?
---

Ok, then it implies that, in order to keep freedom of speech alive.

If you only listen to people you agree with and shut off everyone you don't then you have a dysfunctional society and freedom of speech de facto doesn't exist.
---

Loving this topic.

"The Constitution says this."
"No it doesn't."
"Yes it does."
"Doesn't matter."

Bootiful.
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

Damn, so many insults.

I thought you guys were supposed to be tolerant of other people.

So in your head does freedom of speech not cover insults or something?

No, but there is a difference between a friendly insult and insulting someone you think lesser of.
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

Damn, so many insults.

I thought you guys were supposed to be tolerant of other people.

So in your head does freedom of speech not cover insults or something?

No, but there is a difference between a friendly insult and insulting someone you think lesser of.

What's the difference in relation to how free I am allowed to say one or the other?
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

the government can't punish you. what other people do is not controlled by the constitution.

this. its not rocket science.
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

If you only listen to people you agree with and shut off everyone you don't then you have a dysfunctional society and freedom of speech de facto doesn't exist.

Except it de facto does exist because absolutely no one is required to listen or entertain whatever you have to say, as long as you are able to say it.
---

Not being listened to isn't punishment; it's the status quo for the vast majority of people.
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

ChromaticAngel posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

Damn, so many insults.

I thought you guys were supposed to be tolerant of other people.

So in your head does freedom of speech not cover insults or something?

No, but there is a difference between a friendly insult and insulting someone you think lesser of.

What's the difference in relation to how free I am allowed to say one or the other?

You are free to say either one. Obviously I disagree with you dismissing my opinions, but you are free to do that. But the whole point of this topic is saying that you are wrong to do that.
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

Damn, so many insults.

I thought you guys were supposed to be tolerant of other people.

two smart people can put a lot of thought into something and come out with different opinions.

But that doesn't mean willful stupidity should be tolerated. It's right to frown on attitudes of "I don't know anything and I'm not going to learn anything but u should still take me seriously."

You probably get insulted every day. That must suck
---

Wouldn't it kind of violate freedom of speech if we barred people from thinking less of someone for what they say? What exactly is the punishment and what should we do to protect people from said punishment?
---

Damn_Underscore posted...

You are free to say either one. Obviously I disagree with you dismissing my opinions, but you are free to do that. But the whole point of this topic is saying that you are wrong to do that.

Your opinion is garbage. Garbage gets thrown out. I didn't say you weren't allowed to have that opinion, or that you should be punished for having that opinion. I just think your opinion is garbage, I use my freedom of speech to express such, and then I throw it out like the garbage that it is.

I don't have to entertain opinions merely because they are opinions, or out of fear that I am violating freedom of speech unless I stop and seriously consider every opinion I come across.
---

Yeah, the idea that freedom of speech gives you a right to be listened to is absurd.
---