Current Events > damn. Ben Shapiro absolutely slaughtered Cenk Uygur in their debate

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ben Shapiro is on point as always.
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Omnislasher posted...

Keith_Valentine posted...

Where? Says who? Don't say Finland, for your sake.

sad

You are. Can't even answer, don't got shit to say. Besides troll blurts, there's not much to you, huh? You said another poster advocated killing the poor, like it's nothing to toss that around. That's not normal, and you don't get it. Put that together

Omnislasher posted...

Keith_Valentine posted...

Universal health care is a horrible idea, and is barely working in th smaller countries it exists in.

actually it's working pretty great

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/09/nhs-crisis-charts-show-health-service-performance-hit-record/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3434250/every-day-brings-a-new-nhs-crisis-its-time-britain-finally-had-a-grown-up-chat-about-how-to-fix-it/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/19/nhs-impossible-budget-crisis-health-trusts

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/11/nhs-crisis-20-hospitals-declare-black-alert-as-patient-safety-no-longer-assured

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jun/06/nhs-lord-carter-hospitals-wasting-millions-pounds

Imagine caring about either of these dumb fucks.

Fill_Kessel posted...

Ben Shapiro is one of the biggest troll shit posters in history. He probably posts here, honestly.

Shit, my secret identity has been exposed!
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working great here in Canada

has been for decades

Keith_Valentine posted...

You said another poster advocated killing the poor

that's what the position that the both of you hold amounts to

not that the utter disdain in that one rambling post of yours was exactly concealed

Omnislasher posted...

working great here in Canada

has been for decades

You think Canada is like the United States? Cmon bruh... you know better. This country is full of fucking psychos, many of us hate the US themselves. Canadoans Like Canada.

I don't trust the American public with this at all. I'm not saying we don't need reform, but universal healthcare in this enormous country, hell naw.

Would single payer be best for the US?
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CrimsonRage posted...

If I wanted to watch a Turk and Jew yell at each other, I'd go to a New York Deli.

underrated comment
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Omnislasher posted...

working great here in Canada

has been for decades

A population that is nearly ten times smaller than America's. Much less obese than America's population. Higher taxes and higher cost of living than in America.

Oh and it's not even working. It's literally going to collapse in the near future because of how unsustainable it is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/natasha-macdonalddupuis/the-future-of-canadian-healthcare_b_4429892.html

https://www.city-journal.org/html/ugly-truth-about-canadian-health-care-13032.html

You are being dishonest as fuck.

LightningAce11 posted...

Would single payer be best for the US?

for the vast majority yeah but not for the rich who control all political power so yeah

not rocket science here guys

LightningAce11 posted...

Would single payer be best for the US?

It would not. What's best for the US is to allow competition to reduce the cost of procedures and medicines, similar to how going to the dentist for a checkup and cleaning costs like $50 nowadays. Socialized medicine stifles innovation, forces rationing of doctors and facilities, and requires tremendous amounts of taxes just to plug the hole as it grows bigger and bigger.

We would literally spend ourselves into an early grave as a nation if we try to make it happen with tax cattle rather than through innovation and competition in the private sector.

Omnislasher posted...

LightningAce11 posted...

Would single payer be best for the US?

for the vast majority yeah but not for the rich who control all political power so yeah

not rocket science here guys

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/natasha-macdonalddupuis/the-future-of-canadian-healthcare_b_4429892.html

https://www.city-journal.org/html/ugly-truth-about-canadian-health-care-13032.html

When Canada's healthcare system collapses, it's going to be ugly for everyone besides the rich who control all political power. How ironic.

Transcendentia posted...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/natasha-macdonalddupuis/the-future-of-canadian-healthcare_b_4429892.html

Actuarial analysis of the Canadian health care system concludes that, at current growth rates, a staggering 97 per cent of total revenues available to provinces and territories will be spent on health care expenditures by 2037, compared to 44 per cent in 2012.

yeah virtually every aspect of modern civilization collapses by 2037 "at current growth rates" not to mention our environment and the biosphere itself. we need to restructure our economic productive systems globally by then but that's a separate discussion from providing healthcare to people today.

not clicking any more of your links because they're all garbage

we should just get rid of healthcare and let people fend for themselves. it'll lower overpopulation and this way the few that survive will be the strongest of us, making humanity stronger
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Omnislasher posted...

Transcendentia posted...

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/natasha-macdonalddupuis/the-future-of-canadian-healthcare_b_4429892.html

Actuarial analysis of the Canadian health care system concludes that, at current growth rates, a staggering 97 per cent of total revenues available to provinces and territories will be spent on health care expenditures by 2037, compared to 44 per cent in 2012.

yeah virtually aspect of modern civilization collapses by 2037 "at current growth rates" not to mention our environment and the biosphere itself. we need to restructure our economic productive systems globally by then but that's a separate discussion from providing healthcare to people today.

not clicking any more of your links because they're all garbage

haha you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, bro

ok bro

you claimed that it's working so well in other countries

i posted the links that prove that the UK's system is going to collapse. then you said you don't care about the UK and that it's working great in Canada.

so i posted links that prove that it's not working great in Canada. then you pull out some insane Alex Jones conspiracy about the biosphere and environment as if that somehow changes the fact that you were wrong twice

lmfao come on now fam

Well played tc

*tips fedora*

Transcendentia posted...

you claimed that it's working so well in other countries

i posted the links that prove that the UK's system is going to collapse. then you said you don't care about the UK and that it's working great in Canada.

so i posted links that prove that it's not working great in Canada. then you pull out some insane Alex Jones conspiracy about the biosphere and environment as if that somehow changes the fact that you were wrong twice

lmfao come on now fam

against better judgment

Transcendentia posted...

https://www.city-journal.org/html/ugly-truth-about-canadian-health-care-13032.html

Socialized medicine has meant rationed care and lack of innovation.

oh innovation you mean like heart valve replacement which was pioneered in toronto which is still among the best places for such surgery?

thanks for SOCIALIZING technological development, US government, and giving us the internet

i am literally in Canada telling you it's working great

Omnislasher posted...

Transcendentia posted...

you claimed that it's working so well in other countries

i posted the links that prove that the UK's system is going to collapse. then you said you don't care about the UK and that it's working great in Canada.

so i posted links that prove that it's not working great in Canada. then you pull out some insane Alex Jones conspiracy about the biosphere and environment as if that somehow changes the fact that you were wrong twice

lmfao come on now fam

against better judgment

Transcendentia posted...

https://www.city-journal.org/html/ugly-truth-about-canadian-health-care-13032.html

Socialized medicine has meant rationed care and lack of innovation.

oh innovation you mean like heart valve replacement which was pioneered in toronto which is still among the best places for such surgery?

thanks for SOCIALIZING technological development, US government, and giving us the internet

i am literally in Canada telling you it's working great

https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2011/03/23/the-most-innovative-countries-in-biology-and-medicine/#57436a781a71

Omnis the Donald Trump of Canada.

'Healthcare is great, huge! Amazing Healthcare, unbelievable'

*healthcare collapses five years later*

Keith_Valentine posted...

Omnis the Donald Trump of Canada.

'Healthcare is great, huge! Amazing Healthcare, unbelievable'

*healthcare collapses five years later*

haha omg

i just want to be clear that i do want everyone to have access to high quality and affordable health care

note though that i said health care rather than saying health insurance. the two are radically different, and my strategy for getting there is radically different.

different in the sense that my strategy would actually work and be sustainable and accessible for any number of people, indefinitely.

Lol at calling Ben Shapiro stupid.
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Why is it a lot of the alt-righters and Trump fanboys that post here seem to want to live vicariously through Shapiro?
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Why is it a lot of the alt-righters and Trump fanboys that post here seem to want to live vicariously through Shapiro?

come now, be an adult. don't be a bitterbeard.

Transcendentia posted...

come now, be an adult. don't be a bitterbeard.

Is it because he's a successful and intelligent person while the rest of you are angry 20 somethings working meaningless desk jobs? :/
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Ben Shapiro lost the moment he said that he's against single payer cuz the government will tell his wife how to treat her patients. What a clown. That's literally the case under our current healthcare system. In fact, many of the physicians for single payer love it for the very reason of freedom to treat patients the way they want. Cenk got triggered too much over lil shit but on substance, he was wrecking Shapiro. I really don't like Cenk, but the clown he was debating was spewing bullshit
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Transcendentia posted...

come now, be an adult. don't be a bitterbeard.

Is it because he's a successful and intelligent person while the rest of you are angry 20 somethings working meaningless desk jobs? :/

even if we assume that everyone here is an angry 20 something working a meaningless desk job, why would you target someone's employment as some kind of insult? it's commendable that people are working in the first place, broseph.

Transcendentia posted...

why would you target someone's employment as some kind of insult?

why, indeed
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Keith_Valentine posted...

Omnis the Donald Trump of Canada.

'Healthcare is great, huge! Amazing Healthcare, unbelievable'

*healthcare collapses five years later*

Ha
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Zembaphobia posted...

Ben Shapiro lost the moment he said that he's against single payer cuz the government will tell his wife how to treat her patients. What a clown. That's literally the case under our current healthcare system. In fact, many of the physicians for single payer love it for the very reason of freedom to treat patients the way they want. Cenk got triggered too much over lil shit but on substance, he was wrecking Shapiro. I really don't like Cenk, but the clown he was debating was spewing bullshit

that's unfair bro, shapiro said a lot more than that. keep watching. the biggest problems with single payer are that the funding is unsustainable and that rationing is a requirement.

Transcendentia posted...

Zembaphobia posted...

Ben Shapiro lost the moment he said that he's against single payer cuz the government will tell his wife how to treat her patients. What a clown. That's literally the case under our current healthcare system. In fact, many of the physicians for single payer love it for the very reason of freedom to treat patients the way they want. Cenk got triggered too much over lil shit but on substance, he was wrecking Shapiro. I really don't like Cenk, but the clown he was debating was spewing bullshit

that's unfair bro, shapiro said a lot more than that. keep watching. the biggest problems with single payer are that the funding is unsustainable and that rationing is a requirement.

I watched the whole thing. Cenk made me cringe but he was still nailing Shapiro on substance. The costs were also addressed by Cenk, if you were paying attention. Also, single payer would cause more in taxes but save you money given you aren't paying as much for healthcare. Economists have done the numbers, Republicans just choose to ignore it
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Zembaphobia posted...

Transcendentia posted...

Zembaphobia posted...

Ben Shapiro lost the moment he said that he's against single payer cuz the government will tell his wife how to treat her patients. What a clown. That's literally the case under our current healthcare system. In fact, many of the physicians for single payer love it for the very reason of freedom to treat patients the way they want. Cenk got triggered too much over lil shit but on substance, he was wrecking Shapiro. I really don't like Cenk, but the clown he was debating was spewing bullshit

that's unfair bro, shapiro said a lot more than that. keep watching. the biggest problems with single payer are that the funding is unsustainable and that rationing is a requirement.

I watched the whole thing. Cenk made me cringe but he was still nailing Shapiro on substance. The costs were also addressed by Cenk, if you were paying attention. Also, single payer would cause more in taxes but save you money given you aren't paying as much for healthcare. Economists have done the numbers, Republicans just choose to ignore it

it would only save people money if they're making under like what, 50k a year? everyone else would pay more. and the self-employed (and a huge portion of America is self-employed) would get fucking destroyed by the extra taxation.

i don't recall hearing Cenk explain how to prevent rationing, lower quality, and the inevitable trend of unsustainability that we're seeing in Canada and in the UK

Transcendentia posted...

to reduce the cost of procedures and medicines,

We did that for decades. It didn't work.

Insurance companies were invented and demanded discounts in exchange for the volume of patients they sent to the hospital. Hospitals couldn't afford that so they added mark ups to the cost of everything and gave the insurance companies "discounts" on that.

Insured patients don't care about these extra costs so they kept on using. Hospital prices went up and insurance companies starting losing profit, which lead to higher premiums and shadier business practices.

We reached a point where a newborn baby was denied insurance because he was too fat. So we tried something else.

Trying the same shit over and over again an expecting different results is dumb.
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I'm still trying to figure out why you guys are taking a debate between two idiots so seriously....

The Deadpool posted...

Transcendentia posted...

to reduce the cost of procedures and medicines,

We did that for decades. It didn't work.

Insurance companies were invented and demanded discounts in exchange for the volume of patients they sent to the hospital. Hospitals couldn't afford that so they added mark ups to the cost of everything and gave the insurance companies "discounts" on that.

Insured patients don't care about these extra costs so they kept on using. Hospital prices went up and insurance companies starting losing profit, which lead to higher premiums and shadier business practices.

We reached a point where a newborn baby was denied insurance because he was too fat. So we tried something else.

Trying the same shit over and over again an expecting different results is dumb.

i said that we should work to reduce the cost of procedures and medicines. i didn't say anything about doing it through health insurance companies. health insurance and health care are entirely different concept, and i have no fucking idea when it became a trend to conflate the two.

the only, only, sustainable solution is for countries to start dropping billions of dollars into investments in companies that are building software and hardware solutions for the automation of healthcare itself.

I'd be in favor of our government putting up a few billion as a grant or a prize for a company that proved it was making good progress in, say, automating brain surgery with higher safety margins and results than any human surgeon. etc.

TheVipaGTS posted...

I'm still trying to figure out why you guys are taking a debate between two idiots so seriously....

neither of them are idiots. they're both smart people tbqh

Explain how the fuck you are paying more when the trillion dollar insurance industry is no longer profiting off of you. Please use your fucking brain and actually do research rather than basing things off your gut. I'm a medical student who has done a ted talk on single payer and am copresident of Rush's Studnets for a National Health Program. I've done extensive research on the matter, and you would neither pay more into single payer or have to "ration" care for medically necessary procedures. People who want elective procedures would absolutely have to wait longer and people with medically necessary procedures would be given priority, because the system would favor those who need healthcare over those who can afford it. Under private healthcare, the wait time is infinite for poor people. We don't ever talk about that, right? Also might wanna take another look at Canada and other nations because their healthcare systems absolutely destroy ours. We pay more for healthcare and have worse life expectancy.
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Zembaphobia posted...

Explain how the fuck you are paying more when the trillion dollar insurance industry is no longer profiting off of you. Please use your fucking brain and actually do research rather than basing things off your gut. I'm a medical student who has done a ted talk on single payer and am copresident of Rush's Studnets for a National Health Program. I've done extensive research on the matter, and you would neither pay more into single payer or have to "ration" care for medically necessary procedures. People who want elective procedures would absolutely have to wait longer and people with medically necessary procedures would be given priority, because the system would favor those who need healthcare over those who can afford it. Under private healthcare, the wait time is infinite for poor people. We don't ever talk about that, right? Also might wanna take another look at Canada and other nations because their healthcare systems absolutely destroy ours. We pay more for healthcare and have worse life expectancy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/09/nhs-crisis-charts-show-health-service-performance-hit-record/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3434250/every-day-brings-a-new-nhs-crisis-its-time-britain-finally-had-a-grown-up-chat-about-how-to-fix-it/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/19/nhs-impossible-budget-crisis-health-trusts

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/11/nhs-crisis-20-hospitals-declare-black-alert-as-patient-safety-no-longer-assured

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jun/06/nhs-lord-carter-hospitals-wasting-millions-pounds

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/natasha-macdonalddupuis/the-future-of-canadian-healthcare_b_4429892.html

https://www.city-journal.org/html/ugly-truth-about-canadian-health-care-13032.html

i like how benny says racism isn't a problem anymore and then complains that white people are victims of racism too
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You're making your own shortcomings very obvious if you call Ben stupid. I disagree with him on some big issues such as foreign policy and I think he lags far behind real libertarians when it comes to economics (he discussed the 2008 crash without mentioning the Fed once), but the man is clearly very smart. His mind goes 100 mph and he is able to articulate all of it.

I don't care how much you disagree with Ben. I think a guy like Paul Krugman represents almost everything that is wrong with American politics, but I would never call him stupid.
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Transcendentia posted...

i said that we should work to reduce the cost of procedures and medicines.

You, and Ben Shapiro, both said the let the open market do it.

I'm telling you that we did let the open market do it. And the open market fucked the people in exchange for money.

I think it's amusing that Shapiro remembered about Life, Liberty and Property when talking about abortion but totally forgot about it when talking about Healthcare...
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The Deadpool posted...

Transcendentia posted...

i said that we should work to reduce the cost of procedures and medicines.

You, and Ben Shapiro, both said the let the open market do it.

I'm telling you that we did let the open market do it. And the open market fucked the people in exchange for money.

I think it's amusing that Shapiro remembered about Life, Liberty and Property when talking about abortion but totally forgot about it when talking about Healthcare...

we did not let the open market do it. what happened was that giant health insurance companies and other lobbying entities stifled the entire process. giant pharmaceutical companies stifled the entire process. and the government endorsed it along the way, just like when Obama kept conflating healthcare with health insurance in order to get his crock of shit law passed.

if the open market had really had its way, visiting the doctor would be more affordable. along the same lines as getting an eye exam or your teeth cleaned. they'd all be much cheaper to just pay directly with cash than to pay for with taxes.

Maybe you want to actually address what I said instead of dumping links about how other healthcare systems are having issues. Because at the end of the day, their system has them paying less and living longer. I don't know enough about their systems to identify the problem but they're still better than ours which has always had problems. Instead of trying a system that has yielded better results, you'd rather stick with a system that has always been shit and will continue to be shit as it treats healthcare like a commodity.
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Zembaphobia posted...

Maybe you want to actually address what I said instead of dumping links about how other healthcare systems are having issues. Because at the end of the day, their system has them paying less and living longer. I don't know enough about their systems to identify the problem but they're still better than ours which has always had problems. Instead of trying a system that has yielded better results, you'd rather stick with a system that has always been shit and will continue to be shit as it treats healthcare like a commodity.

how are they doing better if they're not even going to be around in the near future? and i'm definitely down for trying something new. i just actually want to try something new rather than forced redistribution of wealth and nonsense economics.

IE I want to usher in a technological revolution that has yet to grace healthcare as an industry. the healthcare industry is still using tremendous amounts of paper to track information and patient profiles.

fucking paper.

it is bloated with inefficiencies, and machines will be able to do everything better. but the powers that be don't want that because they're either med students like yourself or other rich and powerful people who would benefit from treating healthcare as a job sector and a pipeline for more tax cattle.

Transcendentia posted...

we did not let the open market do it. what happened was

Exactly what I told you. Insurance companies and hospitals, without government involvement, created a huge price hike in hospital costs, which in turn lead insurance companies to have to work around it.

That's what happened with the open market. Government got involved after the mess had been made.

Open market straight up started the problem. To expect the open market to fix it is laughable at best.
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Zembaphobia posted...

Maybe you want to actually address what I said instead of dumping links about how other healthcare systems are having issues. Because at the end of the day, their system has them paying less and living longer. I don't know enough about their systems to identify the problem but they're still better than ours which has always had problems. Instead of trying a system that has yielded better results, you'd rather stick with a system that has always been shit and will continue to be shit as it treats healthcare like a commodity.

Are you stoned? The US has the best healthcare in the world.