Board 8 > Rate the Character Day 3: Darth Vader

(+) Yeah! (+)

Welcome to the most must-see recurring thread on Board 8. I'm scarletspeed7, and this is Rate the Character. I'll pick a category, you pick a character, and every day we'll rate one character. You are the raters, they are the characters, you rate the characters. Boom.

Yesterday, Severus Snape took our overall top spot with an 8.000 even.



All ratings are on scale of 1-10. You may rate any previous characters you have yet to rate at any point. View your ratings here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P47gZ8N7QcS-ShXYjvteOnd_aCJbv3AcJdipiUChhAg/edit?usp=sharing

Today's character was the primary antagonist of the Star Wars prequels and a notable character in its sequels, Darth Vader.


---

Is it up to us how we define who is "Darth Vader"?

Timeline wise, obviously.
---

10
---

Yeah I'm curious how much prequel we take into account here.

does this include his pre-suit life?
---

8
---

It has to at least in part because he was coined Vader pre-suit. So for sure at that moment.
---

8
Great character though not without a few glaring issues.
---

This includes the character in his entirety. How you define what matters to you is up to you, of course

Sorry it took so long to respond to your questions on that.
---

Hmm...

5.

Darth Vader is pretty one note in the original trilogy but good, but before the mask he is pretty trash.
---

7

While Anakin is the second worst character in the prequels, I can still watch the original trilogy and not have Vader be ruined for me because of it. Which just goes to show how great original Vader is.
---

6.5/10

He's okay conceptually as the representation of ultimate evil, but in actuality he's somewhat dull and boring.
---

6/10

I've actually never been a big fan of Vader. There are better villains in the mythos.
---

10
---

I will honestly ignore Anakin in this, and only count him once he's named Vader. Which essentially means episode 3 and up. He was a little annoying through ep3, but was lured by the dark side as an emo teenager. He became actually kind of cool as Vader, and RotJ has one of the best face turns in cinema. One of, of course. Fuck the people that used him in Battlefront 2 though, damn dash attack spam.

7/10
---

Snake5555555555 posted...

He's okay conceptually as the representation of ultimate evil, but in actuality he's somewhat dull and boring.

This, but I'll actually go with 5.5
---

His design is amazing and the execution is pretty good.

8/10
---

7/10
---

7/10

he was awful in Episode 2, but I actually liked him in Episode 3 - mostly because the Jedi came across as total garbage in that movie. like, here's a guy who's terrified because he has recurring visions of his loved one dying, and all the Jedi can say is "everyone dies eventually, no big deal. stop getting so worked up. passion belongs to the dark side." no wonder he turned to the dark side. obviously under the circumstances he got played for a fool; but just speaking philosophically, I'd rather be evil and passionate about protecting those I care about, rather than "good" but uncaring.

anyway this ranking is mostly for original trilogy Vader, but I just wanted to rant about how the Ep3 Jedi suck
---

9

Not counting Anakin Skywalker stuff as Vader. Darth Vader killed him, after all.

Good villain. Very menacing, great design. Simple, but who cares, does what he needs to and does it very well.
---

9/10
---

3

He looks and sounds cool. He's a good generic evil villain...and then the plot randomly decides to "redeem" him because he happens to be related to the hero, which I despise, especially since in Vader's case, his big redemption is killing a guy he hates and who wanted him dead to save a guy who was willing to let him live. That's not redemption, that's pure self-interest.
---

I don't think you were reading the subtext very well if that's your interpretation of RotJ.
---

Panthera is known for having rather unique character interpretations.
---

Lopen posted...

I don't think you were reading the subtext very well if that's your interpretation of RotJ.

Oh no someone insulted something popular let's call him stupid

:)

Subtext is way less important than overt facts - even before getting into the prequels (where he personally slaughters a bunch of children), he's a willing accessory to mass murder who kills people for mildly antagonizing him and his clearest view on his position as the more or less second in command of an evil empire is that he wants to move up to number one. His view of his children is basically to like the fact that they might help him. His "sacrifice" is self-beneficial. A guy who is as consistently evil as Vader is does not qualify as redeemed simply because he helps kill a guy that wanted him dead anyway. The whole deal with fiction treating horrible people as if they aren't horrible because they happen to share the same family as the hero pisses me off.

No amount of subtext can ever magically make Darth Vader not an irredeemable bastard
---

Guessing The Joker was ranked already?

7 for Vader.
---

Actually I called you stupid because the trilogy pretty much leads up to that the whole time. Otherwise I would've quoted the "generic evil" posts

Your interpretation of Vader's actions is basically fanfiction not supported by the presentation at all.
---

Keep in mind I actually agree that him becoming a "Light Side Spirit" in the end for that one selfless act is dumb. Cause it is. One good deed shouldn't outweigh all the bs he did.

But him doing it out of self-preservation is 100% fanfiction.
---

Lopen posted...

Actually I called you stupid because the trilogy pretty much leads up to that the whole time. Otherwise I would've quoted the "generic evil" posts

Your interpretation of Vader's actions is basically fanfiction not supported by the presentation at all.

I wish I could see this alternate version of Star Wars where Darth Vader doesn't do anything evil, it sounds fascinating
---

Lopen posted...

But him doing it out of self-preservation is 100% fanfiction.

There's no way to prove one way or another what is going through his mind, but while the trilogy wants to make a big point about redemption and love and all that, what we have seen from Vader suggests that he wants to kill the Emperor anyway, he knows the Emperor wants him dead based on how Palpatine was encouraging Luke (especially factoring in the prequels, where Anakin has personally been in Luke's position), and because of that, trying to kill the Emperor in the situation he's in is clearly his only hope of survival.

The point isn't that the real story *is* that Vader acted out of pure self-interest, it's that Vader's actions being portrayed as anything else bugs me.
---

You basically sound like you're over-rationalizing disliking him because you really didn't like him becoming "redeemed" at the end.

I can respect that! I can't really respect you trying to claim "he only saved Luke because he was afraid Palps was gonna kill him"-- that's simply not the story being told there and it makes you seem like you watched a lets play of LMS watching the Star Wars Trilogy to digest the plot.
---

Panthera, check yourself before you wreck yourself. You're only a couple posts in and you're already approaching Vlado territory.

Anyway, 9. Not counting his stuff as Anakin or in Ep 3 because even if he has been named Vader by then, he hasn't really assumed that identity until Ep 4 (or Rogue One depending on your perspective).
---

Lopen posted...

You basically sound like you're over-rationalizing disliking him because you really didn't like him becoming "redeemed" at the end.

I can respect that! I can't really respect you trying to claim "he only saved Luke because he was afraid Palps was gonna kill him"-- that's simply not the story being told there and it makes you seem like you watched a lets play of LMS watching the Star Wars Trilogy to digest the plot.

It's not over-rationalizing if it's the actual reason.

Again, I'm not claiming that as any sort of serious theory - it's more of a way to criticize the scene by saying how badly what we got clashes with how his characterization actually comes across to me. As in, him acting out of self-interest would make a lot more sense to me than what I'm expected to believe.
---

Like put it another way.

Say you replace Luke Skywalker with Qui Gon Jinn in RotJ. Like literally the exact same scenario, with Emperor muttering stuff about something something aggression, and Qui Gon Jinn saying he has a certain set of skills that make him a nightmare for sith like Palps

Darth Vader as portrayed, does not help Qui Gon Jinn. 0% that happens. Palps tries to pressure cook Qui Gon while Vader looks on, then Qui Gon flips out, kills everyone and finds his daughter on the Death Star II
---

7/10

Pretty solid.
---

Panthera posted...

it's more of a way to criticize the scene by saying how badly what we got clashes with how his characterization actually comes across to me. As in, him acting out of self-interest would make a lot more sense to me than what I'm expected to believe.

It's a way to criticize the scene that makes you come across as a buffoon who didn't pay attention to the movies. It'd been hinted at for quite some time, over a movie's length in fact, that Vader appeared a heartless bastard but that maybe he wasn't completely lost.

Like the key here is that what Star Wars is feeding you is that being light side vs dark side is all about mentality and not so much about the sum of all good you've done vs all bad you've done. Once the guy is showing that he wishes to repent or whatever, it doesn't matter, to the force, that he'd previously blown up a planet's worth of people.

Now I could agree with you that that's a dumb message to push, but it's not Vader's fault so much. It seems your issue is more the reactions to Vader moreso than Vader himself, who is a pretty consistently written character in the original trilogy and doesn't really came across as forced at any point
---

7

No nostalgia for him or the franchise, but he's solid
---

10/10

It's Darth Vader. Enough said.

10
---

5

now THIS is pod racing

would be higher if I could burn the prequels from my mind
---

Hmm

6.5

Hi scarlet
---

10/10 but i'm ignoring the prequels

My Immortal posted...

Hi scarlet

Hi MI!
---

10
---

Panthera posted...

Again, I'm not claiming that as any sort of serious theory - it's more of a way to criticize the scene by saying how badly what we got clashes with how his characterization actually comes across to me. As in, him acting out of self-interest would make a lot more sense to me than what I'm expected to believe.

I mean if his goal was to stay alive he did a pretty poor job

if Palpatine kills Luke there, Vader gets to stay alive longer

seems more like his goal was to save his son even more than just to redeem himself (which you could argue was still self-interest but whatever)

I feel like he had to have known messing with Palpatine in the middle of force lightning was suicide
---

Lopen posted...

It's a way to criticize the scene that makes you come across as a buffoon who didn't pay attention to the movies. It'd been hinted at for quite some time, over a movie's length in fact, that Vader appeared a heartless bastard but that maybe he wasn't completely lost.

Like the key here is that what Star Wars is feeding you is that being light side vs dark side is all about mentality and not so much about the sum of all good you've done vs all bad you've done. Once the guy is showing that he wishes to repent or whatever, it doesn't matter, to the force, that he'd previously blown up a planet's worth of people.

Dude my entire problem is literally that that light/dark mindset thing not accounting for actions is idiotic and makes Vader's character really lame to me because he's the symbol of how much I hate it, because in my mind a guy who has done so many evil things cannot be taken seriously as a candidate for redemption. I know what the intended story is, I just think it sucks and doesn't add up because the way the character is presented reads as "evil jackass who only does things for his own benefit" to me regardless of how much Lucas wants it to seem otherwise. Like have you really never heard of someone criticizing a story by saying it didn't come across as intended?

LeonhartFour posted...

I mean if his goal was to stay alive he did a pretty poor job

if Palpatine kills Luke there, Vader gets to stay alive longer

Uh Palpatine was literally trying to manipulate Luke into killing him. What ambiguity there could be is cleared up if you include the prequels, which show that Anakin knows full well the implications - he himself was in this exact situation when he killed Dooku! He knows this is the sign Palpatine wants him gone, and clearly our beloved Emperor isn't going to let a crippled wreck who is of no further use to him *and* has ample reason to not be loyal live. Luke was willing to at least entertain not killing Vader, Palpatine very clearly wants Vader dead. It's pretty obvious who Vader should be rooting for <_<
---

Panthera posted...

Uh Palpatine was literally trying to manipulate Luke into killing him.

and if Palpatine kills Luke then Luke can't kill Vader

seems pretty straightforward

your odds of living longer are higher if you just let Luke die instead of killing yourself killing Palpatine

Palpatine won't kill Vader himself or he'd have done it long ago.
---

7

Taking into account from the time he is named as Vader in the prequel.

LeonhartFour posted...

and if Palpatine kills Luke then Luke can't kill Vader

seems pretty straightforward

your odds of living longer are higher if you just let Luke die instead of killing yourself killing Palpatine

Palpatine won't kill Vader himself or he'd have done it long ago.

Palpatine didn't *want* to kill Vader long ago, he wanted Vader to do his bidding. Luke being a potential new apprentice changed that, in the same way that Palpatine was fine with Dooku being his apprentice until it was time to recruit Anakin. With Vader being injured by Luke, and with the whole loyal (for a very...peculiar...definition of loyal) follower thing undone by Vader being aware Palpatine no longer wanted his services, there's no reason whatsoever for Palpatine to keep him around, and Vader would have to be crazy not to know it
---

Sith trying to kill each other is a known thing. This is not new information to Vader. He wanted to recruit Luke to kill Palpatine, too.

and again Vader would've had to know that trying to kill Palpatine in the middle of force lightning would kill him too so again if his goal is just not to die he did a poor job
---