Current Events > I've been bulking/lifting for 4 months, and I still feel scrawny (pics inside)

(+) Yeah! (+)

My shoulders look flat. I bet am doing something wrong.
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It takes a hell of a lot longer than 4 months to get ripped dude
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MC_BatCommander posted...

It takes a hell of a lot longer than 4 months to get ripped dude

Well if I burned off another 4% of fat I'd look a lot more cut, but it would be harder to get gains. However I am approaching the overweight threshhold for my height (currently wt 170 atm at 5'10)

At 175 I'll be considered overweight.
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Do Brazilian jiu jitsu

soulunison2 posted...

Do Brazilian jiu jitsu

Wat
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Captain_Qwark posted...

It took me like 1.5 years to get results that were really visible.

But my died was/is crap so that's probably why

I am eating mostly dense protein, carbs, and olive oil
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We need to see before pics to really judge.
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What is your lifting regime? And are you taking any supplements?

You might have a body type that is really hard to put muscle on. They're called ectomorphs. I might suggest going the cut route. Brad Pitt at 5'10 was 155 pounds in 'Fight Club' for instance. Girls like it and it's easier to maintain than becoming swoll honestly (though still tough). You also won't be spending as much money on food.

If you still wanna put on muscle though, just make sure you're doing separate days of arms, chest, shoulders, back, and legs. Put in a plan for weights (I mean the weights you're using in the exercises) progression and keep precise track of where you are. And stick to the plan - if you're trying to bulk up from your size it can take year and a half - two years.
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Callixtus posted...

We need to see before pics to really judge.

I will say my legs are a big part of my weight increase. I have put on about 16-20 lbs in the past 4 months though.

BalisticWarri0r posted...

What is your lifting regime? And are you taking any supplements?

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159678631

I drink a whey shake every day. (2 scoops of whey, 2 tbsp of peanut butter, cup of milk, cup of oats, and a banana)

masticatingman posted...

You might have a body type that is really hard to put muscle on. They're called ectomorphs. I might suggest going the cut route. Brad Pitt at 5'10 was 155 pounds in 'Fight Club' for instance. Girls like it and it's easier to maintain than becoming swoll honestly (though still tough). You also won't be spending as much money on food.

If you still wanna put on muscle though, just make sure you're doing separate days of arms, chest, shoulders, back, and legs. Put in a plan for weights (I mean the weights you're using in the exercises) progression and keep precise track of where you are. And stick to the plan - if you're trying to bulk up from your size it can take year and a half - two years.

I am an ectomorph.
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Honestly if ur not shredded in like 6 weeks then u might as well give up it's not in your genes to get big
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JustMyOpinion posted...

Yeah, I couldn't tell you lift from that pic. But it's only been 4 months.

I feel I could spend all this time food prepping and at thr gym actually doing something that is affecting my life.
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I was joking btw
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A more closeup picture for detail:


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You need to work on your lats. Do you even lift?
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DanHarenChamp posted...

Honestly if ur not shredded in like 6 weeks then u might as well give up it's not in your genes to get big

Thats kinda right, kinda. You should definitely see improvements quick but then no improvements for a little while. If you arent seeing anything after a few months either completely change what youre doing or accept what you got.

Also, I dont know if this is deja vu or what but I definitely feel like I saw this exact topic before.
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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

You need to work on your lats. Do you even lift?

I do lat pulldowns every other day. I could be botching the form though.
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You're not seeing much visible results despite putting on weight cause that workout is a beginner routine designed to help you master form while gaining strength, not getting swole. If you want to get bigger then ditch the routine and train for hypertrophy, not to maximize beginner gains.
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1. How many calories are you eating a day? If you don't know, find out.

2. How much assistance work are you doing? The routine you're following is called abbreviated training. It's great for making you strong but more volume is needed to really grow.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

You're not seeing much visible results despite putting on weight cause that workout is a beginner routine designed to help you master form while gaining strength, not getting swole. If you want to get bigger then ditch the routine and train for hypertrophy, not to maximize beginner gains.

Abbreviated training works great and "beginner" routines don't really exist. Beginner loads do. All he needs to do is tack on some more hypertrophy-centric movements after the big lifts.
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The last pic highlights your shoulder growth a lot better. They definitely look bigger but I can't tell for certain with the pictures that you're using.

Honestly, I think you're just the victim of shitty lighting/inconsistent lighting.
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Pow Pow Punishment posted...

1. How many calories are you eating a day? If you don't know, find out.

2. How much assistance work are you doing? The routine you're following is called abbreviated training. It's great for making you strong but more volume is needed to really grow.

1. Between 3000-3500.

2. Assistance as in like a trainer? None.
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Pow Pow Punishment posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

You're not seeing much visible results despite putting on weight cause that workout is a beginner routine designed to help you master form while gaining strength, not getting swole. If you want to get bigger then ditch the routine and train for hypertrophy, not to maximize beginner gains.

Abbreviated training works great and "beginner" routines don't really exist. Beginner loads do. All he needs to do is tack on some more hypertrophy-centric movements after the big lifts.

I mean whats a good new routine? Since I would say I am intermediate by now or close.

My stats so far:

A:
Squats: 225
Bench: 125
Pendlay: 125
Facepulls: 65
Pressdowns: 80
Calf raises: 225

B:
Front Squat: 165
Overhead: 90 (I actually need to do a reset on this I've been stalling)
Romanian: 150
Lat Pulldown: 125
Curls: bar+25 lbs (The bars weight seems inconsistent, but I just add 5 every week)
Abs: 2x15 with 20 lb dumbvell
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Vermander posted...

1. Between 3000-3500.

2. Assistance as in like a trainer? None.

Assistance exercises are exercises that are secondary to the main lifts that are a part of your routine. I would add things like dips, dumbbell pressing, curls, etc. for 10+ reps to gain more mass while also upping your calories (and don't neglect cardio while doing this).
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Pow Pow Punishment posted...

Vermander posted...

1. Between 3000-3500.

2. Assistance as in like a trainer? None.

Assistance exercises are exercises that are secondary to the main lifts that are a part of your routine. I would add things like dips, dumbbell pressing, curls, etc. for 10+ reps to gain more mass while also upping your calories (and don't neglect cardio while doing this).

I mean I am already leaving the gym almost passing out. For dumbell presses should I do this in addition to my bench?
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I would recommend gaining very distinct muscle/six pack/muscle tone before you start "bulking". Strive to get that lean muscle look first. At least you know when you have that, your body looks good. Then, if you decide to take it to the next level and get physically bigger... then start bulking.

I've seen too many horror stories with bulking and gaining all this weight, trying to turn it into more muscle. A lot of times it leaves people chubby and bigger (without the sleek, muscle tone) than they would normally have been once they hit their late 20s, 30s and later on in life.

Be cautious about it. Go for the tone first.
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Vermander posted...

I mean I am already leaving the gym almost passing out. For dumbell presses should I do this in addition to my bench?

How long is your workout taking you? Yes, that would be in addition to what you're already doing to add extra volume.

Capn Circus posted...

I would recommend gaining very distinct muscle/six pack/muscle tone before you start "bulking". Strive to get that lean muscle look first. At least you know when you have that, your body looks good. Then, if you decide to take it to the next level and get physically bigger... then start bulking.

I've seen too many horror stories with bulking and gaining all this weight, trying to turn it into more muscle. A lot of times it leaves people chubby and bigger (without the sleek, muscle tone) than they would normally have been once they hit their late 20s, 30s and later on in life.

Be cautious about it. Go for the tone first.

Tone doesn't have anything to do with being lean, but terminology aside, it doesn't make sense to lean down if he wants to gain muscle mass. If you get fat and sloppy while gaining weight that's your avoidable fault.
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Pow Pow Punishment posted...

Vermander posted...

I mean I am already leaving the gym almost passing out. For dumbell presses should I do this in addition to my bench?

How long is your workout taking you? Yes, that would be in addition to what you're already doing to add extra volume.

Capn Circus posted...

I would recommend gaining very distinct muscle/six pack/muscle tone before you start "bulking". Strive to get that lean muscle look first. At least you know when you have that, your body looks good. Then, if you decide to take it to the next level and get physically bigger... then start bulking.

I've seen too many horror stories with bulking and gaining all this weight, trying to turn it into more muscle. A lot of times it leaves people chubby and bigger (without the sleek, muscle tone) than they would normally have been once they hit their late 20s, 30s and later on in life.

Be cautious about it. Go for the tone first.

Tone doesn't have anything to do with being lean, but terminology aside, it doesn't make sense to lean down if he wants to gain muscle mass. If you get fat and sloppy while gaining weight that's your avoidable fault.

It takes me about and hour. Should I also do bigger sets than 5 on my main lifts now that my body is more acclimated to fitness?
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Pow Pow Punishment posted...

Tone doesn't have anything to do with being lean, but terminology aside, it doesn't make sense to lean down if he wants to gain muscle mass. If you get fat and sloppy while gaining weight that's your avoidable fault.

What I'm trying to convey is try first gaining muscle outright without intentionally "bulking" and buying huge jugs of supplement. Get a legitimate, noticeable six pack first, etc. Prove to yourself you are capable of obtaining noticeable muscle FIRST without trying to add weight and muscle at the same time.

Working out and gaining muscle will add weight on its own, and it will also give you a very fit look without trying to turn into Hulk. And I know it's a person's own fault if they get fat or do something wrong, but from my personal observations of people, mostly acquaintances I've known over the years, it just didn't work out too well in their favor.

They're younger, they get all gung-ho about "getting really big and bulking up", they buy all these jugs of protein crap, and it sort of seems to work for awhile but then somewhere something happens and all of a sudden 5 years later--- their face is fat, and they just look bigger without the sexy muscle tone (and also don't noticeably have a six pack anymore because their belly is too big)
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Capn Circus posted...

Pow Pow Punishment posted...

Tone doesn't have anything to do with being lean, but terminology aside, it doesn't make sense to lean down if he wants to gain muscle mass. If you get fat and sloppy while gaining weight that's your avoidable fault.

What I'm trying to convey is try first gaining muscle outright without intentionally "bulking" and buying huge jugs of supplement. Get a legitimate, noticeable six pack first, etc. Prove to yourself you are capable of obtaining noticeable muscle FIRST without trying to add weight and muscle at the same time.

Working out and gaining muscle will add weight on its own, and it will also give you a very fit look without trying to turn into Hulk. And I know it's a person's own fault if they get fat or do something wrong, but from my personal observations of people, mostly acquaintances I've known over the years, it just didn't work out too well in their favor.

They're younger, they get all gung-ho about "getting really big and bulking up", they buy all these jugs of protein crap, and it sort of seems to work for awhile but then somewhere something happens and all of a sudden 5 years later--- their face is fat, and they just look bigger without the sexy muscle tone (and also don't noticeably have a six pack anymore because their belly is too big)

I won't get fat. I am already thinking about doint a cut to around 12% bf
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Vermander posted...

It takes me about and hour. Should I also do bigger sets than 5 on my main lifts now that my body is more acclimated to fitness?

I would stick to the 5-rep plan for the sake of following the program and just add some higher-rep secondary exercises. Don't go much over an hour. You should be deloading every few weeks to give your body a break, too.

By the way, high-rep work after the heavy compounds can actually feel pretty good and restorative.

Capn Circus posted...

What I'm trying to convey is try first gaining muscle outright without intentionally "bulking" and buying huge jugs of supplement. Get a legitimate, noticeable six pack first, etc. Prove to yourself you are capable of obtaining noticeable muscle FIRST without trying to add weight and muscle at the same time.

Working out and gaining muscle will add weight on its own, and it will also give you a very fit look without trying to turn into Hulk. And I know it's a person's own fault if they get fat or do something wrong, but from my personal observations of people, mostly acquaintances I've known over the years, it just didn't work out too well in their favor.

They're younger, they get all gung-ho about "getting really big and bulking up", they buy all these jugs of protein crap, and it sort of seems to work for awhile but then somewhere something happens and all of a sudden 5 years later--- their face is fat, and they just look bigger without the sexy muscle tone (and also don't noticeably have a six pack anymore because their belly is too big)

There's a lot to unpack here that doesn't make any sense, with all due respect. Gaining muscle through muscle protein synthesis in a concerted effort is bulking. Muscle mass is by definition bulk. Yes, in the past few years there have been some trendy articles decrying the dichotomy of "bulking" and "cutting" and saying that bulking is an outdated concept, but their message always just ends up being don't be a sloppy fatass when trying to bulk.

You're sending him completely mixed messages. He cannot gain much or any muscle if he's cutting and eating a deficit of calories. That's not how the law of thermodynamics works.

He needs to prove to himself that he can gain muscle mass by getting a six-pack and losing weight? What?
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Pow Pow Punishment posted...

Vermander posted...

It takes me about and hour. Should I also do bigger sets than 5 on my main lifts now that my body is more acclimated to fitness?

I would stick to the 5-rep plan for the sake of following the program and just add some higher-rep secondary exercises. Don't go much over an hour. You should be deloading every few weeks to give your body a break, too.

By the way, high-rep work after the heavy compounds can actually feel pretty good and restorative.

Capn Circus posted...

What I'm trying to convey is try first gaining muscle outright without intentionally "bulking" and buying huge jugs of supplement. Get a legitimate, noticeable six pack first, etc. Prove to yourself you are capable of obtaining noticeable muscle FIRST without trying to add weight and muscle at the same time.

Working out and gaining muscle will add weight on its own, and it will also give you a very fit look without trying to turn into Hulk. And I know it's a person's own fault if they get fat or do something wrong, but from my personal observations of people, mostly acquaintances I've known over the years, it just didn't work out too well in their favor.

They're younger, they get all gung-ho about "getting really big and bulking up", they buy all these jugs of protein crap, and it sort of seems to work for awhile but then somewhere something happens and all of a sudden 5 years later--- their face is fat, and they just look bigger without the sexy muscle tone (and also don't noticeably have a six pack anymore because their belly is too big)

There's a lot to unpack here that doesn't make any sense, with all due respect. Gaining muscle through muscle protein synthesis in a concerted effort is bulking. Muscle mass is by definition bulk. Yes, in the past few years there have been some trendy articles decrying the dichotomy of "bulking" and "cutting" and saying that bulking is an outdated concept, but their message always just ends up being don't be a sloppy fatass when trying to bulk.

You're sending him completely mixed messages. He cannot gain much or any muscle if he's cutting and eating a deficit of calories. That's not how the law of thermodynamics works.

He needs to prove to himself that he can gain muscle mass by getting a six-pack and losing weight? What?

I actually haven't deloaded at all in my 4 months. >.>
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Pow Pow Punishment posted...

Vermander posted...

It takes me about and hour. Should I also do bigger sets than 5 on my main lifts now that my body is more acclimated to fitness?

I would stick to the 5-rep plan for the sake of following the program and just add some higher-rep secondary exercises. Don't go much over an hour. You should be deloading every few weeks to give your body a break, too.

By the way, high-rep work after the heavy compounds can actually feel pretty good and restorative.

Capn Circus posted...

What I'm trying to convey is try first gaining muscle outright without intentionally "bulking" and buying huge jugs of supplement. Get a legitimate, noticeable six pack first, etc. Prove to yourself you are capable of obtaining noticeable muscle FIRST without trying to add weight and muscle at the same time.

Working out and gaining muscle will add weight on its own, and it will also give you a very fit look without trying to turn into Hulk. And I know it's a person's own fault if they get fat or do something wrong, but from my personal observations of people, mostly acquaintances I've known over the years, it just didn't work out too well in their favor.

They're younger, they get all gung-ho about "getting really big and bulking up", they buy all these jugs of protein crap, and it sort of seems to work for awhile but then somewhere something happens and all of a sudden 5 years later--- their face is fat, and they just look bigger without the sexy muscle tone (and also don't noticeably have a six pack anymore because their belly is too big)

There's a lot to unpack here that doesn't make any sense, with all due respect. Gaining muscle through muscle protein synthesis in a concerted effort is bulking. Muscle mass is by definition bulk. Yes, in the past few years there have been some trendy articles decrying the dichotomy of "bulking" and "cutting" and saying that bulking is an outdated concept, but their message always just ends up being don't be a sloppy fatass when trying to bulk.

You're sending him completely mixed messages. He cannot gain much or any muscle if he's cutting and eating a deficit of calories. That's not how the law of thermodynamics works.

He needs to prove to himself that he can gain muscle mass by getting a six-pack and losing weight? What?

I'm assuming TC wants a more ripped body, and also a bigger body that is ripped. Judging by the before picture, he could have been more ripped before he started "bulking". If I recall correctly, he's relatively new to workout routines.

Simply put, my cautionary advice would be to observe results you want to see in yourself with the weight and body you currently have, and if you want to get bigger from there, get bigger.

If you can't be ripped and have clear, defined muscle tone at your current weight---what would make you think you could achieve that by gaining even more weight? Those are just personal questions I would ask myself.
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Vermander posted...

A more closeup picture for detail:

I can definitely see the muscle in this pic. You're doing great, shoulders are the hardest to develop. Your chest is like 2x bigger as are your arms.
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It takes years, not months.
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My friend and I (although I am less extreme) are ectos. I am 5'5" and he's like 5'9", we both weigh about the same around 145 range.

He got really into lifting and started eating 6k calories a day. He was able to gain 20-30 lbs in a span of 4 months, and slowly gained another 10 lbs to a total of 40 lbs. It was lean body weight too.

If you are really willing to go at it hard, you can get gains relatively quickly as well as losses too (for cutting if that is your goal)

You look like a level 35 Graveler who still uses Tackle
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Vermander posted...

I actually haven't deloaded at all in my 4 months. >.>

Definitely, definitely deload.

Capn Circus posted...

I'm assuming TC wants a more ripped body, and also a bigger body that is ripped. Judging by the before picture, he could have been more ripped before he started "bulking". If I recall correctly, he's relatively new to workout routines.

Simply put, my cautionary advice would be to observe results you want to see in yourself with the weight and body you currently have, and if you want to get bigger from there, get bigger.

If you can't be ripped and have clear, defined muscle tone at your current weight---what would make you think you could achieve that by gaining even more weight? Those are just personal questions I would ask myself.

Observe and prove what? Everyone loses weight on a caloric deficit and vice versa. And this still doesn't address how you expect him to defy thermodynamics and lose weight while putting on muscle mass. If he wants to get more muscular then telling him to get "ripped" is poor advice. He's not overweight to make excess adipose tissue a priority.
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You weren't even that skinny to begin with. True ectomorphs are over 6 feet tall with thinner ankles/wrists and longer limbs.
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Start boxing. My shoulders started to stand off after beating on the heavy bag.

Do you use a loofah?