Board 8 > What are your thoughts on Final Fantasy VIII?

(+) Yeah! (+)

also I'll be the guy who says it

the orphanage scene is unironically great
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I played it wrong (didn't draw much magic cause I didn't know it made you stronger), but the end result was great. Final dungeon and boss is really really good.
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Yeah, my first time through, the last boss was by far the hardest time I've ever had with a last boss in the series since I still didn't totally get how everything worked.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Yeah, my first time through, the last boss was by far the hardest time I've ever had with a last boss in the series since I still didn't totally get how everything worked.

How the fuck would Ulti (even blind) be harder than Cloud of Darkness, Emperor Mateus XDeath, or fuck off every single thing about Zeromus..... Especually Zeromus. Fuck you Zeromus!

ChampionCloud posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

Yeah, my first time through, the last boss was by far the hardest time I've ever had with a last boss in the series since I still didn't totally get how everything worked.

How the fuck would Ulti (even blind) be harder than Cloud of Darkness, Emperor Mateus XDeath, or fuck off every single thing about Zeromus..... Especually Zeromus. Fuck you Zeromus!

I beat all of those pretty easily actually

Final boss of XIII destroyed me about 100 times tho
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I don't think I died against Zeromus or X-Death. I spammed Gil Toss and mimed it against X-Death, which is kinda cheap, but hey, it worked.

Never played II or III, so I can't comment on those.
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Cloud of Darkness > Barth > ZeromusDS > Neo X-Death for final boss difficulty imo. None of the others rate.

CoD is probably significantly easier if you do the spoonfed 2 Sage 2 Ninja but I like actually using classes.
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I didn't think the final Barthandelus fight was that hard. The second fight on Pulse was a lot harder to me.
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MZero11 posted...

ChampionCloud posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

Yeah, my first time through, the last boss was by far the hardest time I've ever had with a last boss in the series since I still didn't totally get how everything worked.

How the fuck would Ulti (even blind) be harder than Cloud of Darkness, Emperor Mateus XDeath, or fuck off every single thing about Zeromus..... Especually Zeromus. Fuck you Zeromus!

I beat all of those pretty easily actually

Final boss of XIII destroyed me about 100 times tho

How? I didn't even know you could lose to Orphan for about a year. I actually thought you more or less Auto won the battle and Barthandalus 3 was the real final boss like Braska's Final Aeon and Yu Yevon.

LeonhartFour posted...

I didn't think the final Barthandelus fight was that hard. The second fight on Pulse was a lot harder to me.

The first before entering Arc is the hardest easily (3 was cake).

In fact, Barthandalus 1 is probably the hardest non NES (non Spin off) fight in the series.

LeonhartFour posted...

I don't think I died against Zeromus or X-Death. I spammed Gil Toss and mimed it against X-Death, which is kinda cheap, but hey, it worked.

Never played II or III, so I can't comment on those.

What version of IV did you play first time through?

ChampionCloud posted...

How? I didn't even know you could lose to Orphan for about a year.

he literally has instant death attacks of course you can die
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MZero11 posted...

ChampionCloud posted...

How? I didn't even know you could lose to Orphan for about a year.

he literally has instant death attacks of course you can die

He has a Doom timer.

I don't think he ever insta killed me.

Neutral overall.

The gameplay has loads of problems:
-Very long load time for battles (exceeded only by the abomination that is the FF9 battle load time), as well as overly long animation times for summons.
-The drawing and refining systems are bad and extremely vulnerable to grinding, FAQ diving, or both. Junctioning's a decent idea but it needed to be tied to simply to what spell you place there, not "do you have 1 or 100".
-Spells being conumsable is a poor choice. Arguably it doesn't matter that much because realistically you'll never run out (especially once you know the best ways to get more), but it has the psychological effect of making people hoard them like they do items, which greatly shrinks your effective skillset. (FF8 magic is actually a really fun toolkit on paper, as FF magic often is, but in my experience most players don't bother with it.)
-Limits showing up randomly instead of predictably is bad. Also I'm not sure if it's an oversight or just bad design that you can mash a button to get a re-roll at them, but either abusing this feature is absolutely game-breaking.
-The battles are extremely easy and boring by and large, they're really only a challenge if you completely fail to understand the systems in place. (Heck, even on my first playthrough where I didn't understand some of the systems, I basically cruised all the way until I got my party OHKOed by Shockwave Pulsar) This reflects on the poor design of said systems that they basically had to design the game this way, because if they'd balanced around people who do understand the systems the game would be unreasonably difficult for those who don't.

That said, outside the gameplay, the game definitely has quite a few things going for it. Solid sountrack, amazing graphics for the time (obviously not special now), a great final dungeon, and Squall is one of the more developed and intruiguing main characters out there. A lot of the rest of the cast annoyed me when I was around their age but as I've grown up (and worked with teenagers a lot myself) I've gained appreciation for them (except Irvine). The plot and setting are sadly a bit of a mess (Disc 3 and Esthar in particular, as has been noted), but not the worst or anything.

ChampionCloud posted...

How the f*** would Ulti (even blind) be harder than Cloud of Darkness, Emperor Mateus XDeath, or f*** off every single thing about Zeromus..... Especually Zeromus. f*** you Zeromus!

I kinda knew what I was doing and I found blind Ulti harder than any of those except Cloud of Darkness. Emperor hype, really? (Zeromus I can see, but he depends a lot on what version of the game you're playing and whether you have Rosa equipped for Will.)
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NeoElfboy posted...

Junctioning's a decent idea but it needed to be tied to simply to what spell you place there, not "do you have 1 or 100".

I mean, it kind of is. Certain spells junction better with some stats than others, and they're kind of predictable. Haste and Triple are best on Speed, for instance.

ChampionCloud posted...

In fact, Barthandalus 1 is probably the hardest non NES (non Spin off) fight in the series.

what? no

ChampionCloud posted...

What version of IV did you play first time through?

The PS1 port.
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Yeah last boss in FFVIII was hard and it might've been due to me doing things wrong, but to be fair I've never been defeated by an FF final boss ever, though most of them have been pretty close (definitely not in 6).
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Neoelf's post is a 10/10 analysis of the critiques of the game.

Like I just value some of things higher than others so it comes off as a fantastic game but I don't disagree with pretty much anything said there, except maybe the amount needed.

For higher level magic that's hard to get it wouldn't really make sense.
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I think COD is definitely the hardest then Neo X-Death

I would also argue Necron was harder than Ultimecia but that may have been my inexperience with JRPGs speaking (I played IX way before I played VIII)

Always thought getting to Zeromus was harder than Zeromus himself
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Necron's incredibly annoying as almost any boss that deals in lots of status effects is, but I've never found him difficult.
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CoD is unfair because you have to fight like 5 bosses and a dungeon without saving.
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Personally, Cloud of Darkness is easier than Zeromus and Exdeath, and maybe even Ultimecia for folks who aren't terribly committed to learning FF8's nuances (as was recently the case with a friend of mine). But the fear of having to restart FF3's entire final dungeon adds a certain psychological pressure to the proceedings that cannot be replicated elsewhere in the series. At 19 years old, I ordered a Quad Venti Caramel Macchiato and tackled the dungeon at the Starbucks I ordered it from. I'll never forget the mounting dread of highly caffeinated hopelessness.
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ChampionCloud posted...

How the fuck would Ulti (even blind) be harder than Cloud of Darkness, Emperor Mateus XDeath, or fuck off every single thing about Zeromus..... Especially Zeromus. Fuck you Zeromus!

Ive always been shocked by how many people (both friends and online) have had problems with Zeromus. Hes never given me issues, even in the DS version. And I died to a group of fucking Sahags when I just had Cecil & Rydia outside of Kaipo in the DS version...
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yeah I die a lot in JRPGs on initial playthroughs

I'm certainly not exceptionally skilled at them, so saying I didn't die against Zeromus isn't some sort of brag. I just...didn't die.
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pjbasis posted...

CoD is unfair because you have to fight like 5 bosses and a dungeon without saving.

So like Garland and Emperor....

That was just the NES thing.

Also yes, Necron is much harder than Ulti because Necron can conceivably kill you if he gets lucky. You literally should never ever EVER lose to Ulti unless

1: You made it hard on yourself by not beating enough of her bosses and your abilities are locked.
2: You for some reason didn't equip all members of your team and she chooses those 3 randomly and kills you straight off.
3: You don't know any mechanics of the game and brute forced your way through 3 disks....

ChampionCloud posted...

Also yes, Necron is much harder than Ulti because Necron can conceivably kill you if he gets lucky.

I mean not really

he can kill you if you're not paying attention but he doesn't have any "lucky" insta-kills and he's kinda slow

ChampionCloud posted...

2: You for some reason didn't equip all members of your team and she chooses those 3 randomly and kills you straight off.

you do realize that if a party member dies in the final fight, another one comes to take their place, right?

you'll eventually get to the ones you want if it becomes problematic (or you're like me and you just kill off the ones you don't want until you get the ones you do)

Ultimecia actually has to kill all six party members to win
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LeonhartFour posted...

Ultimecia actually has to kill all six party members to win

No if all three are dead at the same time its over. And it's not an instant replacement (you can still revive them).
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ChampionCloud posted...

So like Garland and Emperor....

That was just the NES thing.

Sure but FFI is just plain easy. And there are no bosses you have to fight besides the Emperor.

In III you have to fight Xande, 2-Headed Dragon, Cerberus, Echidna, and Ahriman before you fight Cloud of Darkness, which are all legitimately not easy. And if you want those ribbons that's a fight against a Xande Clone every time.
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pjbasis posted...

No if all three are dead at the same time its over. And it's not an instant replacement (you can still revive them).

yes I know it's not an instant replacement

it's been a long time since the last time I actually died to Ultimecia though so I guess I misremembered the first part
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I think it was more Necron being unexpected tbqh

Also for Zeromus I probably leveled up so much that playthrough it didnt really matter. The Death Masks were more annoying than Zeromus himself
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LeonhartFour posted...

ChampionCloud posted...

Also yes, Necron is much harder than Ulti because Necron can conceivably kill you if he gets lucky.

I mean not really

he can kill you if you're not paying attention but he doesn't have any "lucky" insta-kills and he's kinda slow

ChampionCloud posted...

2: You for some reason didn't equip all members of your team and she chooses those 3 randomly and kills you straight off.

you do realize that if a party member dies in the final fight, another one comes to take their place, right?

you'll eventually get to the ones you want if it becomes problematic (or you're like me and you just kill off the ones you don't want until you get the ones you do)

Ultimecia actually has to kill all six party members to win

Grand Cross (IX) can hit with Death and Petrify.... (and death zombie as well). He can literally best you instantly. It's rare beyond measure he'd hit all 4 with it (though if two are already dead before you heal considerably less rare to hit 2) but he can and that's game
Over.

Also Ulti can kill you if she KO's all 3 same time. They don't get replaced. You just lose.

then I guess he's never gotten lucky when I've fought him
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pjbasis posted...

ChampionCloud posted...

So like Garland and Emperor....

That was just the NES thing.

Sure but FFI is just plain easy. And there are no bosses you have to fight besides the Emperor.

In III you have to fight Xande, 2-Headed Dragon, Cerberus, Echidna, and Ahriman before you fight Cloud of Darkness, which are all legitimately not easy. And if you want those ribbons that's a fight against a Xande Clone every time.

There are also bosses before the Emperor. I don't remember if they gave you useful items (I think it's heavy equipment) but the completionist in me just has to kill them.
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Difference is you can kill them and then warp out to save.

Initiating the fight with Xande is the Point of No Return.
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umm I don't think you can in the original famicom version.
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Yeah you can I did it.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Point_of_no_return
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One of the greatest games of all time. I can write a wall of text explaining why but right now I'm exhausted working overtime last night.

Up
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My Thoughts?
Never played it.

I was the kid who didn't really know about RPG's outside of renting SMB:RPG for a weekend and reading about games in magazines. I read the poop out of the reviews for FF VIII. I always wanted to play the blackjack hidden card game that you can't play until after you beat the game. OK that was 9. the card game from 8 looked cool too.
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7 > 10 > T > 9 > 5 = 6 > 8 = 12 > 4 > 1 > 13 > 2 > 3
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wow when did X pass T on your list?

Didn't FFT used to be second for you?
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I don't understand that ranking because it doesn't include West Wing benchmarks.
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