Board 8 > 10 years since its release, I've been playing Brawl for the first time

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oh how I wish I had a Wii back when this came out just to experience the resolution to all the hype.

Subspace Emissary is probably the smartest thing they could have done with this series. Why exactly does everyone hate it?

Also unlocking characters/stages is wayyyy less tedious than the other entries, which is a huge plus in my mind.

Don't talk about Smash 4 in this topic please.
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I enjoyed SSE

I don't get the hate either

and its a multiplayer experience!
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I remember thinking I was pretty good with Captain Falcon during Melee, then playing B8ers in Brawl and getting my ass kicked.

I played Heroic Dr Wily a million times and won only once.
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Punnyz posted...

and its a multiplayer experience!

And it's fun and easy. I imagine a ton of people just hung out with a friend and marathoned this on release.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Also unlocking characters/stages is wayyyy less tedious than the other entries, which is a huge plus in my mind.

This is the problem, some people liked the variety provided by character unlock, myself included.

You basically ran through SSE and had little left to do, and SSE was just a mini-kirby game(Not a bad thing, but it was really short), but not really a re-playable experience.
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red13n posted...

This is the problem, some people liked the variety provided by character unlock, myself included.

Those options were also available. You could unlock characters via variety OR via the story mode

You basically ran through SSE and had little left to do, and SSE was just a mini-kirby game(Not a bad thing, but it was really short), but not really a re-playable experience.

all the side game options (home run, Target smash, classic mode, etc) were all still there, to the point. They just took melee, added a ton more characters and stages and game modes and a full story with cinematics and a stage builder

Like Brawl is anything but "little to do'
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SSE is a long shoddy platformer
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None of my friends wanted to play Brawl because they all moved on from Nintendo
Couldn't play Brawl with B8 because lol ZoneAlarm

I don't think I've played multiplayer Brawl more than twice

I know this is probably a ridiculous request, but can anyone tell me how Brawl connects to Melee and the original canonically?

I get the first two games were basically just "Master Hand uses voodoo to summon Nintendo heroes to fight each other, and then they rebel against him and return to their lives." But in SSE everyone is just already plopped into some world? I'm only half way through, so if that gets explained by the end just let me know.
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SSB64 was a kid bringing out dolls based on Nintendo characters and having them fight. The kid's right hand is Master Hand. After the characters defeat Master Hand, they return to being dolls.

SSBM was the same except using figures instead of doll and the kid's left hand is Crazy.

I don't remember what it was in SSBB (or SSB4) so I can't answer the question you actually wanted answered.
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

SSB64 was a kid bringing out dolls based on Nintendo characters and having them fight. The kid's right hand is Master Hand. After the characters defeat Master Hand, they return to being dolls.

SSBM was the same except using figures instead of doll and the kid's left hand is Crazy.

I don't remember what it was in SSBB (or SSB4) so I can't answer the question you actually wanted answered.

Lmfao thanks
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I know that Master Hand is in Brawl but I wasn't sure if it ever gets explained how/why all of the characters are in the same universe.
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SSE was fine for what it was, but that maze at the end of the game was some utter bullshit filler.

I'd rather just watch the cutscenes on YouTube.

Still, I hope Smash 5 does do some sort of single player of substance.
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I know ultimately SSE is supposed to be about fighting the taboo surrounding adults playing with toys
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Subspace Emissary is probably the smartest thing they could have done with this series. Why exactly does everyone hate it?

I think Subspace is great. But unless you've played all the way through, it's hard to understand the hate it gets. There's something big that definitely could have been done differently and I totally understand all the hate that part gets.
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Jakyl25 posted...

I know ultimately SSE is supposed to be about fighting the taboo surrounding adults playing with toys

I will be shocked if Nintendo ever does something as insightful as that (ie, the LEGO Movie)
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did you think Jakyl was being facetious or something
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LeonhartFour posted...

did you think Jakyl was being facetious or something

Never
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Johnbobb posted...

red13n posted...

This is the problem, some people liked the variety provided by character unlock, myself included.

Those options were also available. You could unlock characters via variety OR via the story mode

You basically ran through SSE and had little left to do, and SSE was just a mini-kirby game(Not a bad thing, but it was really short), but not really a re-playable experience.

all the side game options (home run, Target smash, classic mode, etc) were all still there, to the point. They just took melee, added a ton more characters and stages and game modes and a full story with cinematics and a stage builder

Like Brawl is anything but "little to do'

They were there but its not like you could disable SSE unlocks. You ran through SSE and unlocked everyone, so there was little reward for doing other things. That little push from Smash games to get you to play minigames and stuff like that was gone.
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I mean you have to clear most of the events to unlock all the stages...
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Tripping sucks.

The online was garbage. 10 years on from that and they still have Friend Codes smfh

SSE was pathetic and ruined the single player experience of unlocking characters through the Event Mode which was FLAWLESS in Melee and actually challenging.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Subspace Emissary is probably the smartest thing they could have done with this series. Why exactly does everyone hate it?

The last half when it's open is pretty annoying

I still liked it a lot though
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I enjoyed SSE well enough as a single player experience.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Tripping sucks.

The online was garbage.

These are absolutely the two biggest flaws with the game.

ExThaNemesis posted...

single player experience of unlocking characters through the Event Mode which was FLAWLESS in Melee and actually challenging.

You can unlock all the characters through alternate methods BEFORE Subspace except Toon Link, Jigglypuff and Wolf who require SSE to be completed before unlocking.

Also there were only two characters in Melee who were unlocked through Event Mode - Ganondorf and Pichu.
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They really SHOULD have a one-player adventure in the next Smash like they did the Subspace Emissary, because SSE showed that it CAN be done to an acceptable degree, now 10 years later they should be able to nail it.

But it won't happen because the reason it wasn't in Smash 4 was because Sakurai was bitter about the cutscenes being put up on Youtube hours after the game launched and was like "Yeah why should I put in all that effort if it's just going straight up to Youtube instead of people playing the game and discovering it for themselves?" I'm not joking or exaggerating. Paraphrased obviously, but there was a legit interview where he said just that.

For what it's worth, the SSE cutscenes took up as much data on Brawl's disc as everything else in the game combined.
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Underleveled posted...

I'm not joking or exaggerating. Paraphrased obviously, but there was a legit interview where he said just that.

almost literally everyone knows about that
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You should try Project M. It's a fun redesign.
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Punnyz posted...

Underleveled posted...

I'm not joking or exaggerating. Paraphrased obviously, but there was a legit interview where he said just that.

almost literally everyone knows about that

Yes but I am talking to someone playing Brawl for the first time.
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The online was extremely limited. With free play (So if you wanted to play with random people without friend codes), you were limited to only 2-minute matches. The lag on those matches could get bad. When I say bad, I mean bad.

One of my most ridiculous gaming memories was a 4-player, "2 minute" online match that took, and I'm not exaggerating at all, no less than TWENTY MINUTES. I entered the command for a smash and watched as Snake took five seconds of real time to initiate the animation, and another ten to complete it. For some reason, none of us quit, probably because we were entertained by the spectacle.
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

The online was extremely limited. With free play (So if you wanted to play with random people without friend codes), you were limited to only 2-minute matches. The lag on those matches could get bad. When I say bad, I mean bad.

One of my most ridiculous gaming memories was a 4-player, "2 minute" online match that took, and I'm not exaggerating at all, no less than TWENTY MINUTES. I entered the command for a smash and watched as Snake took five seconds of real time to initiate the animation, and another ten to complete it. For some reason, none of us quit, probably because we were entertained by the spectacle.

Oh God, I had matches that I could have gone and gotten a drink or something while the announcer was going "3! 2! 1! Go!" This game had absolutely the worst online of any big-name release I've ever played.
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By the way Seph, who are your favorite characters in this one? Mine are Pikachu and Olimar.
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Underleveled posted...

Punnyz posted...

Underleveled posted...

I'm not joking or exaggerating. Paraphrased obviously, but there was a legit interview where he said just that.

almost literally everyone knows about that

Yes but I am talking to someone playing Brawl for the first time.

I did not know that. Sakurai sounds like a douche.

I'm like 25% through SSE and quite enjoying it so far. Not that the gameplay is the best, but this is what they SHOULD be doing--having the characters from disparate series interacting and teaming up the heroes to take on the villains team. It's the exact kind of fun that should be championed in a crossover series.
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Underleveled posted...

By the way Seph, who are your favorite characters in this one? Mine are Pikachu and Olimar.

I haven't done anything other than SSE yet so it's hard to tell!

My Smash 64 fighter of choice was Captain Falcon and I used Roy in Melee. I guess I tend to like overpowered characters.
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Adventure Mode >>>>>>>>>> SSE
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The major flaw of SSE was that they dragged it out at the end. They could have shrunk that area to under half and it would have been better.

It was still good and I hope they do something similar.
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I liked Subspace Emissary for what it was, even if it was flawed in many ways. It's better than the nothing Smash 4 apparently provided.

Adventure Mode was pretty awesome though.
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LeonhartFour posted...

I liked Subspace Emissary for what it was, even if it was flawed in many ways. It's better than the nothing Smash 4 apparently provided.

Adventure Mode was pretty awesome though.

Smash 4 was a great multiplayer game but good god the single player content was lacking(Or sucked).

That board game thing...what a wasted effort.
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LeonhartFour posted...

I liked Subspace Emissary for what it was, even if it was flawed in many ways. It's better than the nothing Smash 4 apparently provided.

Adventure Mode was pretty awesome though.

I don't see why they can't have both.

Have the arcade-style "Classic" mode that takes 5-10 minutes.
A Melee-like adventure mode that takes 20-30 minutes.
All-Star mode. That usually takes, what, 10-15 minutes?

Then separately a SSE-like adventure that takes 7-10 hours.

Assuming we get about 60 characters this time, that's over 50 hours of single-player, not including stuff like Break the Targets (which by the way, let's please bring back separate stages for every character!)
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Brawl holds a special place in my heart.

While it may not have been to some people's liking, I enjoyed it immensely in some areas.

Online may not have been perfect, but it can be with the right connections via With Friends. It was probably thanks to this forum I was able to find anybody to play with when exchanging Friend Codes.

"Wii Would Like 2 Brawl" anyone?

I also made a lot of friends through this game. People I met online through this game and eventually meeting some of them in real life.

This game was also my first time going on the competitive scene and attend tournaments. It was such a fun experience and I got to meet some great players and make new friendships.
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SSE was really fun and Smash 5 should have something like that.
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Only thing I hate about SSE is the trophy hunts and frickin Taboo and his Off waves
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So any insight as to the universe building? Does that question get resolved at some point in SSE or it's more just left up to you as to why Lucas is on the same planet as Solid Snake?
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I don't think so.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

So any insight as to the universe building? Does that question get resolved at some point in SSE or it's more just left up to you as to why Lucas is on the same planet as Solid Snake?

The most common guess is the 'kid playing with toys' thing.
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Suspension of disbelief.
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man SephG is hardcore into overanalyzing the canon of a Nintendo fanservice crossover game
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LeonhartFour posted...

man SephG is hardcore into overanalyzing the canon of a Nintendo fanservice crossover game

Sometimes I think I have a mental illness because I literally cannot enjoy most games if there is no kind of logic to what I am doing in them. It's a curse.
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You're just way too intelligent man
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Is there a reason Lucas and Snake couldn't be on the same world?
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