Board 8 > Ace Attorney Topic Part 5: The Pursuit (Spoilers for AA1-6, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

strangely enough I think I remember Kay's line count too since I was trying to calculate how close she was to 3000 lines and it was almost a nice round number to boot so that would be about 60% of the dialogue

I would just be afraid I'd screw up counting if I were skipping all their lines but that would be a lot faster

I have vague recollections of some of the others, like I remember that Justine and Sebastian had almost the exact same number of lines
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even though John is a punk kid sometimes I like the fact that he has some very teenager-like reactions and motivations for some of the things he did
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I like that Edgeworth eventually does come to acknowledge Kay as his assistant.

Now it's time for the final Little Thief simulation. It's weird, but even though AAI2 uses it rather sparingly compared to the first game, I'm not as big of a fan of it here. I think they tried to make it a little too complicated with the multiple simulations thing.
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I didn't like Little Thief in AAI2 because it always crashed my computer if it ran too long. This one in particular at the orphanage was probably the worst one.
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I'm not a huge fan of Little Thief because it feels like most of the time it's brought in, it's to pad something which could have taken up way less time if it had been done in another way.

It's why I'm more forgiving of, say, the Mood Matrix; sure it's also unbelievable, but it tends to move the case along in a positive way.
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at the most glacial pace though. the mood matrix always makes you point out 3-4 pointless contradictions before you get to the Real Thing.
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And yet it still gets to the point faster than Little Thief.
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probably. I feel like you could call out the Investigation segments as a whole just as easily though. those are very rarely good in any of the 10 cases.
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_SecretSquirrel posted...

I didn't like Little Thief in AAI2 because it always crashed my computer if it ran too long. This one in particular at the orphanage was probably the worst one.

yeah I notice definite lag during those segments too although I've never had it crash

also if you guys want a mechanic that gets right to the point there's always PERCEIVE
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E2-5 Middle checkpoint reached

I'm not sure if I should count John's mom as a separate character in these things (since she has dialogue in the Moozilla doll recording) since she's so minor, although she does have a name, unlike all the other characters I've been categorizing under "Other."
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I kinda like Perceive gameplaywise but it's so silly in a courtroom setting. I'm happier with it in investigations.

(Also investigations need the help with entertaining game mechanics more. I'm probably happiest with investigations in AA2-3 out of the series partly because psyche-locks were such a good time, though they really should have full-healed you after each one, going into a trial day not at full health is no bueno)
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that's why you always save before a Psyche-Lock so you can speed run through it a second time if you screw up too much the first time
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Yeah I picked up on that workaround too but it'd be better game design if I didn't have to!
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I mean the fact that you can literally save at any time 99.9% of the time is pretty good game design for something like this
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LeonhartFour posted...

I mean the fact that you can literally save at any time 99.9% of the time is pretty good game design for something like this

It's the parts at which you can't save that tend to be the most annoying.
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I'm not sure there's any point in the game where you can't save for any significant period of time.
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Eh I don't think AA's way of handling save design prior to DD was very good. You can save whenever you want but it takes a strangely large amount of time to do so, since for some reason the game quits you out when you do it (almost as if it's making a temporary save similar to GBA Fire Emblem or FF3DS, except it's a normal save). So the game discourages saving often and then if you get into trouble (like if you get down to low health late in a trial or something... which can easily happen because you didn't save) then the whole save/loading process really can take a while. And if you actually game over when you aren't expecting to you can end up needing to re-read a lot of text, which isn't really much fun.

I mean you can say a little wasted time adds to the tension of making the right choice but tbh when this was removed for DD/SoJ I can't say I missed it at all. Not getting that "Guilty" verdict screen proved more than motivation enough for me.
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yeah, game overs are really frustrating in AA. that is an. undeniable improvement in QOL from the DS games. (as are the notes for investigation, though they would've been far more useful in 1-3 than in the condensed form from 5-6)
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even aa5 doesn't do it right. there's really no point at all to a fail state in ace attorney. the only sort of exception is when the whole life bar is at stake but all you do is just save and reload anyway so it's not especially notable.
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NeoElfboy posted...

Eh I don't think AA's way of handling save design prior to DD was very good. You can save whenever you want but it takes a strangely large amount of time to do so, since for some reason the game quits you out when you do it (almost as if it's making a temporary save similar to GBA Fire Emblem or FF3DS, except it's a normal save).

This is a relic of the save system in the original GBA games, which actually was a temporary suspend-save IIRC.
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Saving in the OT and AJ is pretty quick. It only takes a few seconds to save and reload. Saving is noticeably longer in the AAI games though.
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Edgeworth: Apprentice beast tamer...? Heh, he's no amateur.

I love that line as a reveal for Keyes as the mastermind.
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also the sprite of Dogen's dog sliding onto the screen to knock over Edgeworth's sprite is hilarious
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E2-5 Middle complete

Edgeworth needs 627 lines in End to catch Phoenix. I don't think he's gonna get it at this point, but it'll be close either way.

also Lang matched Dahlia in total testimonies with 12
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that cat armrest animation is so good
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transience posted...

even aa5 doesn't do it right. there's really no point at all to a fail state in ace attorney. the only sort of exception is when the whole life bar is at stake but all you do is just save and reload anyway so it's not especially notable.

i think there's some value in having the game-over animation and having some pressure on you to get it correct
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I don't think the threat of a game over is ever really where the pressure in Ace Attorney comes from.
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I love the twist that Simon was mistaken about who his father really was and he inadvertently became what he hated so much. I thought that was really clever.

It could've had a lot more emotional impact if he didn't just laugh it off so quickly though, but oh well.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

transience posted...

even aa5 doesn't do it right. there's really no point at all to a fail state in ace attorney. the only sort of exception is when the whole life bar is at stake but all you do is just save and reload anyway so it's not especially notable.

i think there's some value in having the game-over animation and having some pressure on you to get it correct

do you think that's gone in AA5/6 since you just restart after the game over text with no penalty?
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E2-5 End is pretty hilariously lopsided in terms of line distribution

I totally expected it, but it's still amusing to see.
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I like how one of Edgeworth's roles during this final showdown is to be the calm, rational voice of reason for all the other characters as Simon relentlessly trolls them and tries to rile them up.
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LeonhartFour posted...

I love the twist that Simon was mistaken about who his father really was and he inadvertently became what he hated so much. I thought that was really clever.

It could've had a lot more emotional impact if he didn't just laugh it off so quickly though, but oh well.

I thought the twist lacked emotional impact because both the fathers were colossal assholes so who really cares which one is your dad? It's either the murderer or the child kidnapper.
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Eh, it should have mattered to Simon because he held a grudge against his father all this time without realizing who he really was. To him, the kidnapper and the murderer were the same person because of his muddled memories. It doesn't really matter if they were both horrible people in this scenario. Like, if he actually has a crisis of conscience as a result or something and he starts to question why he's been doing all he's been doing with his life, that would have been interesting, but nothing like that ever happens.

Like, I'm not looking for emotions for me here. I'm just looking for a real emotional reaction from Simon himself, but it doesn't happen.
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one of Simon's quirks I do like though is that he laughs both like his father and like Dogen
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LeonhartFour posted...

Eh, it should have mattered to Simon because he held a grudge against his father all this time without realizing who he really was. To him, the kidnapper and the murderer were the same person because of his muddled memories. It doesn't really matter if they were both horrible people in this scenario. Like, if he actually has a crisis of conscience as a result or something and he starts to question why he's been doing all he's been doing with his life, that would have been interesting, but nothing like that ever happens.

Like, I'm not looking for emotions for me here. I'm just looking for a real emotional reaction from Simon himself, but it doesn't happen.

*nods* Yeah that makes sense for sure. I guess I don't feel they really sold me on the twist having emotional resonance for Simon, though I wish they had.
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E2-5 complete(ish). I'll post the relevant numbers that I can before I try to blaze through Beginning again.
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Total lines by segment:

E2-5 Beginning - 2308
E2-5 Middle - 1575
E2-5 End - 852

Total lines by case:

2-4 - 5946
1-5 - 5913
3-5 - 5815
E1-5 - 4831
E2-5 - 4735
3-2 - 4151
3-3 - 4063
E2-3 - 3959
E2-2 - 3936
2-3 - 3884
1-4 - 3466
2-2 - 3119
E1-4 - 2935
E2-4 - 2868
1-3 - 2741
E1-3 - 2412
E1-2 - 1995
E2-1 - 1923
1-2 - 1773
3-4 - 1225
3-1 - 1167
E1-1 - 1039
2-2 - 899
1-1 - 389

Totals lines by game:

AAI2 - 17421
T&T - 16422
PW1 - 14282
JFA - 13848
AAI1 - 13212

Percentage of lines per case by game:

Ace Attorney Investigations 2

E2-5 - 27.18%
E2-3 - 22.73%
E2-2 - 22.59%
E2-4 - 16.46%
E2-1 - 11.04%

Most lines per case:

Phoenix Wright (2-4) - 2194
Miles Edgeworth (E1-5) - 2036
Phoenix Wright (1-5) - 2032
Miles Edgeworth (E2-5) - 1835
Miles Edgeworth (E2-2) - 1597
Phoenix Wright (3-5) - 1570
Phoenix Wright (3-3) - 1476
Phoenix Wright (3-2) - 1433
Phoenix Wright (2-2) - 1370
Miles Edgeworth (E1-4) - 1328
Phoenix Wright (2-3) - 1236
Phoenix Wright (1-4) - 1211
Miles Edgeworth (E2-4) - 1133
Phoenix Wright (1-3) - 1117
Miles Edgeworth (E1-3) - 1059
Miles Edgeworth (E1-2) - 936
Miles Edgeworth (E2-3) - 870
Miles Edgeworth (E2-1) - 830
Phoenix Wright (1-2) - 812
Miles Edgeworth (E1-1) - 466
Mia Fey (3-4) - 436
Mia Fey (3-1) - 396
Phoenix Wright (2-1) - 329
Phoenix Wright (1-1) - 135

Highest percentage of lines per case:

Miles Edgeworth (E1-2) - 46.92%
Phoenix Wright (1-2) - 45.80%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-4) - 45.25%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-1) - 44.85%
Phoenix Wright (2-2) - 43.92%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-3) - 43.91%
Miles Edgeworth (E2-1) - 43.16%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-5) - 42.14%
Phoenix Wright (1-3) - 40.75%
Miles Edgeworth (E2-2) - 40.57%
Miles Edgeworth (E2-4) - 39.50%
Miles Edgeworth (E2-5) - 38.75%
Phoenix Wright (2-4) - 36.90%
Phoenix Wright (2-1) - 36.60%
Phoenix Wright (3-3) - 36.33%
Mia Fey (3-4) - 35.59%
Phoenix Wright (1-4) - 34.94%
Phoenix Wright (1-1) - 34.70%
Phoenix Wright (3-2) - 34.52%
Phoenix Wright (1-5) - 34.36%
Mia Fey (3-1) - 33.93%
Phoenix Wright (2-3) - 31.82%
Phoenix Wright (3-5) - 27.00%
Miles Edgeworth (E2-3) - 21.98%
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I'm speedrunning through E2-5 Beginning and of course I'm encountering dialogue that I didn't get the first time through or that I'm not totally sure I got the first time through

oh well
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this whole "if you can't show us the murder weapon then the defendant can't be guilty" thing is stupid because it flies in the face of other Ace Attorney cases

Franziska in particular shouldn't be rattled by this because of 2-3

at the very least call Gumshoe or Regina as witnesses or something because they were right there when the murder weapon was found
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whew speed run through E2-5 Beginning complete

we added some lines to the final totals but whatever

E2-5 Beginning is now 2350 lines, which brings the total for the case up to 4777 and the total for the game up to 17463

final AAI2 numbers coming soonish
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Total lines by character:

1. Phoenix Wright - 15074
2. Miles Edgeworth - 14764
3. Maya Fey - 4441
4. Dick Gumshoe - 4047
5. The Judge - 3846
6. Kay Faraday - 3370
7. Franziska von Karma - 2314
8. Mia Fey - 1418
9. Ema Skye - 1347
10. Shi-Long Lang - 1101
11. Pearl Fey - 1035
12. Justine Courtney - 1016
13. Larry Butz - 1008
14. Raymond Shields - 971
15. Godot - 902
16. Gregory Edgeworth - 649
17. Lotta Hart - 648
18. Tyrell Badd - 593
19. Dahlia Hawthorne - 578
20. Wendy Oldbag - 553
21. Sebastian Debeste - 521
22. Calisto Yew/Shih-na - 489
23. Adrian Andrews - 459
24. Manfred von Karma - 444
25. The Judge's Brother - 421
26. Shelly de Killer - 387
27. Will Powers - 380
28. Simon Keyes - 380
29. Bikini - 351
30. Maggey Byrde - 323
31. Lawrence "Moe" Curls - 320
32. Winston Payne - 309
33. Quercus Alba - 303
34. Luke Atmey - 292
35. Damon Gant - 285
36. Ini Miney - 275
37. Angel Starr - 272
38. Ron DeLite - 271
39. Rhoda Teneiro - 268
40. Katherine Hall - 267
41. Blaise Debeste - 265
42. Regina Berry - 261
43. Jake Marshall - 257
44. Jean Armstrong - 251
45. Nicole Swift - 250
46. Lana Skye - 249
47. Victor Kudo - 247
48. Marvin Grossberg - 234
49. Jacques Portsman - 231
50. Frank Sahwit - 219
51. Patricia Roland - 217
52. Dane Gustavia - 209
53. Horace Knightley - 209
54. Maximillion Galactica - 203
55. Ben & Trilo Quist - 200
56. Penny Nichols - 194
57. Mike Meekins - 183
58. Ken "Acro" Dingling - 182
59. Iris - 181
60. Furio Tigre - 176
61. Matt Engarde - 171
62. Sirhan Dogen - 170
63. Cammy Meele - 168
64. Morgan Fey - 165
65. Redd White - 162
66. John Marsh - 153
67. Delicia Scones - 151
68. Colias Palaeno - 150
69. Dee Vasquez - 148
70. Zinc Lablanc - 146
71. Desiree DeLite - 142
72. Trilo Quist - 140
73. Cody Hackins - 135
74. Lauren Paups - 130
75. Karin Jenson - 129
76. Di-Jun Huang (Body Double) - 110
77. Richard Wellington - 107
78. April May - 104
79. Jay Elbird - 102
80. Yanni Yogi - 98
81. Lance Amano - 92
82. Jeff Master - 90
83. Viola Cadaverini - 80
84. Terry Fawles - 74
85. The Bellboy - 72
86. Director Hotti - 71
87. Ernest Amano - 68
88. Benjamin Woodman - 60
89. Sal Manella - 59
90. Chief of Detectives - 55
91. Bonnie Young - 53
92. Lisa Basil - 46
93. Turner Grey - 39
94. Elise Deauxnim - 30
95. Missile - 20
96. Polly - 20

Overall total lines - 75227

Total lines by character per case:

The Grand Turnabout (E2-5)

1. Miles Edgeworth - 1854 (38.81%)
2. Kay Faraday - 853 (17.86%)
3. Shi-Long Lang - 400 (8.37%)
4. Simon Keyes - 301 (6.30%)
5. Justine Courtney - 247 (5.17%)
6. John Marsh - 149 (3.12%)
7. Sebastian Debeste - 116 (2.43%)
8. Penny Nichols - 106 (2.22%)
9. Raymond Shields - 104 (2.18%)
10. Sirhan Dogen - 83 (1.74%)
11. Dick Gumshoe - 79 (1.65%)
12. Nicole Swift - 75
13. Lotta Hart - 72
14. Franziska von Karma - 64
15. Other - 59
16. Will Powers - 51
17. Blaise Debeste - 47
18. Regina Berry - 37
19. Shelly de Killer - 28
20. Ema Skye - 13
21. Patricia Roland - 13
22. Horace Knightley - 5
23. Amy Marsh - 3
24. Jeff Master - 3
25. Di-Jun Huang - 2
26. Katherine Hall - 2
27. Tyrell Badd - 2
28. Karin Jenson - 2
29. Body Double - 1
30. Jack Cameron - 1
31. Jay Elbird - 1
32. Frank Sahwit - 1
33. Delicia Scones - 1
34. Larry Butz - 1
35. Bonnie Young - 1
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Total lines by character per game:

1. Miles Edgeworth - 6284 (35.98%)
2. Kay Faraday - 1891 (10.83%)
3. Justine Courtney - 1016 (5.82%)
4. Raymond Shields - 971 (5.56%)
5. Dick Gumshoe - 739 (4.23%)
6. Gregory Edgeworth - 644 (3.69%)
7. Sebastian Debeste - 521 (2.98%)
8. Shi-Long Lang - 408
9. Simon Keyes - 380
10. Tyrell Badd - 280
11. Katherine Hall - 267
12. Blaise Debeste - 265
13. Nicole Swift - 250
14. Franziska von Karma - 228
15. Patricia Roland - 217
16. Lotta Hart - 211
17. Dane Gustavia - 209
18. Horace Knightley - 209
19. Other - 198
20. Sirhan Dogen - 170
21. Shelly de Killer - 168
22. Ema Skye - 167
23. Frank Sahwit - 161
24. John Marsh - 153
25. Delicia Scones - 151
26. Larry Butz - 129
27. Karin Jenson - 129
28. Manfred von Karma - 127
29. Di-Jun Huang (Body Double) - 110
30. Regina Berry - 110
31. Penny Nichols - 108
32. Jay Elbird - 102
33. Jeff Master - 90
34. Bonnie Young - 53
35. Will Powers - 51
36. Missile - 10
37. Winston Payne - 8
38. Isaac Dover - 5
39. Amy Marsh - 3
40. Desiree DeLite - 3
41. Di-Jun Huang (Real) - 2
42. Ron DeLite - 2
43. Jack Cameron - 1
44. Jill Crane - 1
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whew now we can finally move on to Apollo Justice

this will be my first time playing the HD version so I'm actually kind of excited about it
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Gumshoe isn't going to quite catch up to Maya like I thought he would, he has plenty of lines in E2-1 and E2-2 but I forgot that he completely drops off a cliff after that

I like that Gregory beats Lotta by 1 line

Yeah, he's not going to get that many lines in 4-0 either, so he'll still end up quite a bit behind her.
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also Penny Nichols has 106 lines in E2-5? What? HOW?

Paratroopa1 posted...

also Penny Nichols has 106 lines in E2-5? What? HOW?

She's your exposition for all things Moozilla and Gourdy at the very beginning of the case. She barely does anything after the opening investigation, but she talks quite a bit there. She and Kay get along pretty well, surprisingly.
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She has more lines in E2-5 than 1-3, which I never would have guessed, even knowing that later games are just so much wordier, and that she wasn't THAT prolific in 1-3 anyway

but, still, it's shocking

Why do you have Penny Nichols having 106 lines in E2-5 but 108 in the game