Board 8 > NBA Discussion Topic: Have Fun in Toronto, Kawhi!

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KommunistKoala
07/18/18 9:45:44 AM
#1:


Sad we gave up Danny Green as well, but can't believe we actually got a trade done for Kawhi at all!
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SeabassDebeste
07/18/18 9:58:15 AM
#2:


didn't realize this purged

couldn't get siakam or anunoby, that sucks

what are the details on the pick?

(edit) it's a 2019 pick so probably not a great one, but i guess if there's any organization you'd trust to get a good return on it...
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LiquidOshawott
07/18/18 10:10:04 AM
#3:


Well its up to Drake now
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ShatteredElysium
07/18/18 10:11:00 AM
#4:


I honestly can't believe they got so much for him given the high chance of a 1 year rental.
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Zenithian Legend
07/18/18 10:23:17 AM
#5:


Such a bad trade, for both sides.
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 10:26:24 AM
#6:


noooooooooo not Danny Green too

darn you Kawhi

darn you to heck
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ShatteredElysium
07/18/18 10:30:41 AM
#7:


I fully expect Toronto to try move Kawhi and Green pre deadline since Kawhi wont re sign there and Green is expiring. I don't know how much cap space that leaves them in the summer but it has to be a decent chunk since Derozan was on a large contract.

Granted it leaves them no actual stars (Lowry I guess?) to try attract free agents. Although depending on what they would get for Leonard it could leave them in a decent place to rebuild
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davidponte
07/18/18 10:44:41 AM
#8:


Huh, this was expected given the last few days but still pretty shocking overall.

I feel terrible for Demar and still think Kawhi is a bitch for what he pulled, but I'm not mad here, and it has nothing to do with getting a Kawhi rental.

The Raps were never going to win with this roster. I joked "trade everyone" when they lost this year, but there was some truth to my feelings. Seeing your team perform well in the season is cool, but knowing that they had no chance to ever actually win kind of killed any interest. I don't think one year of Kawhi changes that, but we're now one year away from starting over and working to rebuild.

I was ready for Demar to go after the sweep. I was hoping we'd get picks and/or young players back to help start the future rebuild, but this is fine.

As long as Kawhi actually plays and goes 100%, I'll take one year and a chance to have the privilige to lose to the Warriors in the finals.
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SeabassDebeste
07/18/18 11:31:32 AM
#9:


ShatteredElysium posted...
I honestly can't believe they got so much for him given the high chance of a 1 year rental.

demar isn't particularly good and his contract sucks. masai is very conscious of that.

it's more brutal since he loves toronto so much, though
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davidponte
07/18/18 11:35:57 AM
#10:


What the Raptors gave isn't that bad honestly. Demar yeah, but Poeltl was the worst of the three young Toronto guys (OG, Siakam, Poeltl), and the pick is going to be a very late first.
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 11:37:03 AM
#11:


*crosses fingers that Kawhi refuses to play for Toronto and the 1st round pick becomes a lottery pick*

at least do one good thing for us on the way out the door
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TheRock1525
07/18/18 11:45:34 AM
#12:


LeonhartFour posted...
*crosses fingers that Kawhi refuses to play for Toronto and the 1st round pick becomes a lottery pick*

at least do one good thing for us on the way out the door


Pick is top 20 protected then becomes a second rounder the next year.
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KommunistKoala
07/18/18 11:48:07 AM
#13:


two second rounders*
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 11:52:15 AM
#14:


'oh'

well either way I might trust the Spurs more with two second round picks instead of just one late first-rounder
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TheRock1525
07/18/18 12:00:36 PM
#15:


I'm sure there's a top 5 MVP level player in there somewhere.
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 12:05:24 PM
#16:


TheRock1525 posted...
I'm sure there's a top 5 MVP level player in there somewhere.


I mean Isaiah Thomas finished top 5 that one year so it could happen

also with Kawhi's move to the East there are now three active players in the Eastern Conference who have made a First Team All-NBA

Kawhi Leonard, Dwight Howard, and Joakim Noah
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TheRock1525
07/18/18 12:07:51 PM
#17:


LeonhartFour posted...
I mean Isaiah Thomas undeservedly finished top 5 that one year so it could happen


Fixed that for you. Also, Kawhi is a multi-year top 5 level player so that's a pretty big difference.
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 12:09:22 PM
#18:


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TheRock1525
07/18/18 12:12:16 PM
#19:


I mean, I don't know what it's like to lose a player of that caliber but I know if I got a package back like that for him I would be pretty upset.
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KommunistKoala
07/18/18 12:12:53 PM
#20:


yeah should have just let him walk away as a FA for nothing
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 12:13:51 PM
#21:


I had no delusions that we were ever going to get anything resembling equal value for Kawhi. The Spurs didn't have the leverage to do so once Kawhi made it known he only wanted to play in LA.

but I can at least hope we can turn a pick into something resembling Manu, Draymond, or even a couple of really good years like Isaiah Thomas had
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TheRock1525
07/18/18 12:18:03 PM
#22:


KommunistKoala posted...
yeah should have just let him walk away as a FA for nothing


Teams always overpay at the deadline, desperate to get over the top or save a sinking season. The Spurs were far better off trying to pacify him to wait until the deadline when a team likely offers multiple first round picks him plus some better young talent.
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 12:21:18 PM
#23:


Eh, I'm not sure Boston or Philly would be willing to do that this year. I guess we could've waited and bilked Toronto for more later, but that's about it since they're the only three teams that have expectations of winning the East this year.
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TheRock1525
07/18/18 12:22:05 PM
#24:


LeonhartFour posted...
I had no delusions that we were ever going to get anything resembling equal value for Kawhi. The Spurs didn't have the leverage to do so once Kawhi made it known he only wanted to play in LA.

but I can at least hope we can turn a pick into something resembling Manu, Draymond, or even a couple of really good years like Isaiah Thomas had


The problem with the trade is that it's such a half-measure. The Spurs should be eyeing towards a rebuild, yet they opted to trade for a soon to be 29 year old player who pretty much is what he is. Poeltl isn't bad as far as prospects go but the picks they'll be receiving won't be of much value. For every Manu, there's a dozen others that don't even come close.

They basically made a trade that probably squeezes out a couple more upper-40/low-50 win seasons but gives them likely only one player part of a long term rebuild, maybe a second if they get a little lucky. Honestly, it might have made more sense to let Leonard walk and find a home for Aldridge to tank properly and start the rebuild.
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TheRock1525
07/18/18 12:23:16 PM
#25:


LeonhartFour posted...
Eh, I'm not sure Boston or Philly would be willing to do that this year. I guess we could've waited and bilked Toronto for more later, but that's about it since they're the only three teams that have expectations of winning the East this year.


Markelle Fultz likely becomes available at the deadline unless he's absolutely killing it, along with draft picks. Striking out in free agency will have them desperate.
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 12:23:47 PM
#26:


forgive me if I'm not excited about the prospect of getting a guy who may never find his shot again
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TheRock1525
07/18/18 1:16:03 PM
#27:


LeonhartFour posted...
forgive me if I'm not excited about the prospect of getting a guy who may never find his shot again


You're already getting that, except he's older, costs a lot more, but exclusively does it in the playoffs.
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ExThaNemesis
07/18/18 1:31:51 PM
#28:


I actually agree with Rock here.

There's no reason for the Spurs (or anyone in the West really) to be doing anything but a hard rebuild right now. You aren't going to even come close to the Warriors no matter what you do, so just soak up some losing seasons and put together a team for the next generation.
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SeabassDebeste
07/18/18 1:39:20 PM
#29:


if your only goal is winning a championship in 5-10 years, then sure

pop must know he's not winning a ring without kawhi, though
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 1:41:32 PM
#30:


TheRock1525 posted...
LeonhartFour posted...
forgive me if I'm not excited about the prospect of getting a guy who may never find his shot again


You're already getting that, except he's older, costs a lot more, but exclusively does it in the playoffs.


well we're not making the playoffs next year anyway so we'll have a guy who has his shot 100% of the season
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LiquidOshawott
07/18/18 1:53:08 PM
#31:


I wonder how were gonna feel next offseason when Kawhi joins the Warriors
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 2:03:06 PM
#32:


pretty sure we'll just be numb to it at this point

I know I'm already numb to all things Kawhi

I'm more upset that we lost Danny Green than we lost Kawhi
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davidponte
07/18/18 2:04:19 PM
#33:


LiquidOshawott posted...
I wonder how we?re gonna feel next offseason when Kawhi joins the Warriors


That's Raptors legend Kawhi Leonard to you.
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Whiskey_Nick
07/18/18 2:07:41 PM
#34:


Kawhi Leonard Is Reportedly Considering Sitting Out Next Season Because He Doesn't Want To Play In Toronto
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davidponte
07/18/18 2:13:23 PM
#35:


Oh yeah can't wait for the Toronto media to get in on this.

This should end well!
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davidponte
07/18/18 2:15:01 PM
#36:


If this were any other league I'd be pissed off but superteams have made the NBA so boring that the thought of Kawhi continuing to sit out after being traded for the Raptors best player has me intrigued to see what happens next.
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 2:17:46 PM
#37:


if he sits out just because he doesn't want to play for them the Raptors wouldn't have to pay him obviously but couldn't it also not count off the last year of his contract as a result?
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davidponte
07/18/18 2:20:47 PM
#38:


The best case scenario here is that the Lakers decide they don't want him. Then what?

It wouldn't happen, but it'd be hilarious.
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 2:22:23 PM
#39:


Well, it's been rumored that Kawhi doesn't want to be LeBron's sidekick, so he could still go to the Clippers.
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Emeraldegg
07/18/18 2:26:55 PM
#40:


What if the raptor intend to flip him to the lakers
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davidponte
07/18/18 2:33:44 PM
#41:


Bring Lavar Ball to Toronto
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TheRock1525
07/18/18 2:55:20 PM
#42:


LeonhartFour posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
LeonhartFour posted...
forgive me if I'm not excited about the prospect of getting a guy who may never find his shot again


You're already getting that, except he's older, costs a lot more, but exclusively does it in the playoffs.


well we're not making the playoffs next year anyway so we'll have a guy who has his shot 100% of the season


Pretty sure you will and that's the problem.
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Zenithian Legend
07/18/18 3:03:50 PM
#43:


TheRock1525 posted...
KommunistKoala posted...
yeah should have just let him walk away as a FA for nothing


Teams always overpay at the deadline, desperate to get over the top or save a sinking season. The Spurs were far better off trying to pacify him to wait until the deadline when a team likely offers multiple first round picks him plus some better young talent.

Exactly, the Clippers got a better deal for Blake Griffin considering they got a lotto pick and unloaded that mammoth contract.
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ShatteredElysium
07/18/18 3:12:48 PM
#44:


LeonhartFour posted...
if he sits out just because he doesn't want to play for them the Raptors wouldn't have to pay him obviously but couldn't it also not count off the last year of his contract as a result?


I had this same argument with someone else as I believe that should be the case. The counter argument I got was that then the player turns up and deliberately half asses it and/or makes life miserable for the team

NBA contracts are ridiculous in how weighted they are towards the players
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ShatteredElysium
07/18/18 3:20:46 PM
#45:


But also in the same vein I hate the American sports trade rules

In European football if someone gets traded it's a transfer. The transferred player then agrees to a completely new contract of their choosing with that new team rather than fulfilling the rest of their existing contract. They can also flat out refuse to go to that team and stay with their existing team on their current contract. Of course things are a bit different in that theres no salary cap so if a player refuses to move you can just terminate his contract and get out of it that way
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Emeraldegg
07/18/18 3:30:57 PM
#46:


Yeah for me the real issue is the locker room stuff, not only will they be reeling from derozan leaving, but now you have a guy who thinks he's all that and a bag of chips, who everyone knows doesn't want to be there. I think this could get really ugly if the raptors actually hold onto him for the whole year.

Also found this on reddit, regarding what happens if he sits out:

Section 3. Withholding Services. (CBA Page 288)

A player who withholds playing services called for by a Player Contract for more than thirty (30) days after the start of the last Season covered by his Player Contract shall be deemed not to have complet[ed] his Player Contract by rendering the playing services called for thereunder. Accordingly, such a player shall not be a Veteran Free Agent and shall not be entitled to negotiate or sign a Player Contract with any other professional basketball team unless and until the Team for which the player last played expressly agrees otherwise.
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 3:37:25 PM
#47:


so basically Kawhi can't sit out the entire season but he can mail it in
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Emeraldegg
07/18/18 3:53:50 PM
#48:


He could but he'd probably be reviled amongst most of the league by doing that. If that's really worth it to him, well...I hope the lakers have no shame in bringing a player like that on their team when they already have lavar to deal with.
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LeonhartFour
07/18/18 3:54:31 PM
#49:


Yeah, I suppose it's a risky venture because it can tank his value, but if he knows the Lakers will pay him lots of money anyway, who knows.
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Emeraldegg
07/18/18 3:57:23 PM
#50:


Well then the question is, what if it scares even the lakers off? Like from their point of view, if you have a guy who's truly so selfish as to pull that card, what if he gets to LA and it's not like he thought it would be? Then they have to worry about him doing this exact same thing all over again. Kawhi surely must realize the huge risk doing such a thing would entail. He's already done a huge hit to his rep as it is, better to just put up and shut up for a year.
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