Board 8 > ~MLB Official Discussion Topic 3: Wilponzis Must Go~

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WiggumFan267
07/22/18 10:32:52 PM
#1:


Just re-leaving this here. Continue discussion as normal (aka me posting nonstop usually but whatever):

http://insider.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/24160093/mlb-mets-get-weak-payoff-trading-jeurys-familia-early

If the New York Mets are just going to trade their most valuable major league assets for salary relief, rather than to try to improve the club, then it's time for MLB to step in and force the Wilpons to sell the team, just as the league did with Frank McCourt and the Dodgers. Trading Jeurys Familia for two fringe-at-best prospects is not how any team, regardless of payroll level, should operate in this environment. For a franchise that operates in the largest market in the league to do this -- and do so ten days before the trade deadline rather than waiting for someone to offer a legitimate return -- is embarrassing for the Mets and for Major League Baseball as a whole.

The international slot money the Mets are getting is probably the most valuable part of the return, and that is utterly embarrassing for a marquee franchise in the largest market in the sport. Dealing major league players with immediate value for petty cash isn't the way to run a low-revenue franchise like Tampa Bay or, well, Oakland. It's damaging to the sport when it's happening to a team in New York City.

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Reg
07/22/18 10:34:03 PM
#2:


This is actually something worth ranting about.

Like, I don't really give a shit about the Mets tbh

And this really, really annoys me.
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WiggumFan267
07/22/18 10:44:57 PM
#3:


it all ties back to their meddling. basically everything ive been complaining about this whole season. its all them. everything stems from their interference, their cheapness, their incompetence, and their desire in making money (lost money from the madoff scandal)/publicity over fielding a competitive baseball team.

this was just another step in their long line of all of the above. somehow this familia trade was the thing that started setting something off. but they did the exact same stuff last deadline and no one bat an eye. In every single deadline deal, they made the other team pay all, or nearly all of the players salary. they got a ton of cash back in deadline deals in 2017. I think none of it went into 2018 payroll. if it did, it did stupidly.
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Nelson_Mandela
07/23/18 12:40:03 PM
#4:


Are there any famous billionaires who want to overpay for the Mets? Mike Bloomberg?
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WiggumFan267
07/23/18 4:55:15 PM
#5:


Once upon a time, Mark Cuban might've

https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-cuban-mets-2011-2
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WiggumFan267
07/23/18 5:01:56 PM
#6:


Another couple wilpon bashing articles are out.

From Jeff Passan, at Yahoo:
https://sports.yahoo.com/10-degrees-everything-dysfunctional-mets-leads-back-ownership-group-fails-150426129.html

And from Marc Caric, at The Athletic (former Mets beat writer): https://theathletic.com/442648/2018/07/23/carig-why-the-mets-wont-change-until-the-wilpons-change/

That 2nd is pay subscription but really the first sentence is all too beautiful.
It's the Wilpons, stupid
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WiggumFan267
07/23/18 5:03:39 PM
#7:


That first one is excellent though. At least read it up until the bullet points which cover other trades around MLB.

An excerpt:

The New York Mets, a public-relations disaster that in its spare time masquerades as a baseball team, spent the days following the All-Star break finding new depths of dysfunction, which is saying something considering the teams ownership profited from the largest Ponzi scheme in human history.

And its important to start there, with owner Fred Wilpon and his son and team COO, Jeff, because rottenness of this sort does not grow randomly, a bizarre series of one-offs that happens to befall the same organization ad infinitum. It emanates from the same wound, one that festers and habitually infects, one rooted in an insecurity that explains so many of the Mets foibles.

Multiple people familiar with the Mets inner workings describe an organizational culture that is almost too childish to believe one in which Jeff Wilpon sees a winning day only as one in which the Mets are victorious and the New York Yankees lose. This is not just little-brother syndrome; its mania in which a franchises fealty to public perception drives so many of its decisions, a sad bit of irony considering Mets fans so deeply loathe the teams ownership.

This manifests itself in more than personnel moves. The Mets might as well communicate internally by tin can. Its not that the left hand doesnt know what the right is doing; its as though theyre on entirely different bodies. The day after outfielder Yoenis Cespedes told reporters he might need surgery on both of his heels that would keep him out more than half a year, Mets manager Mickey Callaway said he was not quite exactly sure what Cespedes said and, when informed, said: Thats concerning.

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WiggumFan267
07/23/18 6:18:52 PM
#8:


Rob manfred is trying to fix baseball dying by killing shifts or shaving the game time off by seconds by doing dumb gimmicky extra inning shit when maybe he should be looking at the trash product teams are putting on the field especially in one of the larger markets in the country
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KCF0107
07/23/18 7:30:46 PM
#9:


Go White Sox!
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Metal_DK
07/23/18 7:40:19 PM
#10:


Go Pirates!
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WiggumFan267
07/23/18 10:17:29 PM
#11:


mets lose with degrom on the mound. it was the defense that let him down today. 8 innings, 10 K, 3 R (1 ER) [the box will say 2, but it was def 1, an inherited runner would not have scored had it not been for the error]

Jacob deGrom is on pace to become the first pitcher in baseball's modern era to throw 200+ innings with a sub-2.00 ERA, and win fewer than 10 games.
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neonreaper
07/24/18 7:41:32 AM
#12:


14 years ago Jason Varitek beat A Rod bloody and made him say I never knew what a real man was until I played against the Red Sox
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WiggumFan267
07/24/18 12:19:37 PM
#13:


A thread and a seies of posts that sums up lots of mets fans current and future state. I implore you to read it and the comments.

I'm not quite at this point... but I'm close. https://twitter.com/EricBien/status/1021427297281290240?s=19

A lot of the replies resonate pretty hard too.

Basically its complete hopelessness. True hopelessness. Resignation to the fact the wilpons, the most toxic poisonous garbage bags in ownership, and some of the most garbage people period, will own this team forever (family business) and as long as they do, the team will be resigned to being run by fucking assholes who are insistent onto truly running the team as poorly as possible. They're more than simply bad owners. They're some of the most incompetent people there are, they're fucking stupid, they lie to the fans, and they hide from the media because they either own most of it or the media can lose their jobs if they touch them.

They're basically baseball trump but worst since most of the media ignores them and blames the GM or manager instead.

Look at what they have driven all these fans too
Some of the most passionate and dedicated fans there are. Driven to giving up. And they don't say theyll stop following the team which they wont cuz they're fans. But basically driven to stop living and dying with the team like we used to. So no more emotional highs or lows (almost entirely lows)
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Nelson_Mandela
07/24/18 12:55:03 PM
#14:


Okay Wigs I am now ready to give you guys Sanchez + all the prospects for deGrom.

Gary belongs on your team.
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WiggumFan267
07/24/18 5:57:20 PM
#15:


Passed before and pass now lol
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Nelson_Mandela
07/24/18 6:09:26 PM
#16:


But his injury profile aligns perfectly
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Forceful_Dragon
07/24/18 6:37:35 PM
#17:


Has wigs seen that cespedes is on the dl now too?
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WiggumFan267
07/24/18 7:54:10 PM
#18:


it was obvious he was going to go back on the DL literally the day he came off, when he said "I need surgery Im not 100%", it just became official today. he will likely miss some of 2019.

it wasn't a re-aggravation or anything. it was just completely obvious he shouldn't have come off.
the reason he came off is the wilpons are incompetent and thought they'd generate more tv viewership/hype/etc if he did.
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WiggumFan267
07/24/18 8:41:55 PM
#19:


Weird play in the mets game today. Whatever the rule actually is, I don't think it was handled properly.
Bases loaded 2 outs for Padres. RBI single scores Padre on 3rd. runner on 2nd comes around to try to score, is forced out at home. during the process of the throw/tag, the runner who went first to second, starts running from 2nd to 3rd but slows down when he sees the out call. Even though there were now 3 outs, the catcher throws to 3rd and tags the runner.

That 2nd run at home is challenged and overturned, properly so. So 2 runs in.
But the runner who went first to third and slowed down after the out, was ruled out. Isn't this weird? And potentially dangerous? If the play is "dead" by 3rd out, shouldnt umpires use their judgement to say "no he should go back to second. He may not have gone to third, and definitely wouldnt have slowed down and allowed himself to be tagged". It seems ridiculous to me that you can get called out because of decisions made becuase the umpire called a 3rd out, and players gave up thinking the inning was over. What are y'all thoughts?

On that note, don't you also think umpires should be micced, a la football, so they can explain to what was likely literally everyone in the crowd, that had no idea what was going on without a TV announcer? And this way the umpires can explain the justification in calling the runner out vs putting him back on 2nd?
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Nelson_Mandela
07/24/18 9:25:57 PM
#20:


Yankees get the Orioles closer for a ham sandwich

Cashman you beautiful bastard
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Xuxon
07/24/18 9:47:16 PM
#21:


nah, that's a fair deal. Tate is a legit prospect. i'd probably have rather kept him tbqh but hard to say.
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WiggumFan267
07/24/18 9:47:41 PM
#22:


The Orioles got waaaaay more for a closer rental than what the Mets did. And Familia has more value than Britton since he wasn't injured half the year. It's obviously because the O's took on more money, but the Yankees gave up their #9 prospect and 2 very good prospects for a rental closer who missed HALF THE YEAR. Thats a good return for a rental. Thats what you SHOULD get for an elite closing rental. The Mets got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but cash relief and garbage prospects for Familia , who did NOT miss half the year.

The Mets need to be dragged so fucking hard for this. This kind of shit is the thing that can completely destroy you for years to come. How do you not go get the best prospects with the best reliever on the market (I mean, Britton better prob, but not considering his injury).

I really implore you all to go back to that twitter link I posted and look at the responses. Its really jarring, upsetting, and sad to see so many Mets fans, who normally are stupidly loyal to a fault, just abandoning hope. Not deserting their fandom. Just deciding to not be as emotionally invested anymore, because the pain of suffering through all these years is doing too much damage and might not be worth the payoff... and acknowledging the Wilpons will never sell, nor ever be forced to sell.

My friends, we are past Anger (mostly) and into Acceptance.
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GeneralKenobi85
07/24/18 9:49:23 PM
#23:


Xuxon posted...
nah, that's a fair deal. Tate is a legit prospect. i'd probably have rather kept him tbqh but hard to say.

If Britton can be a big part of getting to the World Series it'll be worth it.

Great pitching by Tanaka tonight. Good to see him have such an excellent start.
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WiggumFan267
07/24/18 9:54:22 PM
#24:


also its now been 4 nights since cespedes says he needs surgery, and as FD noted he was put on the DL today, and no one from the mets FO has made any comments. it takes 2 days to get results from an MRI according to the wilpons.

no one wants to take any accountability in this dumpster fire.
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Esuriat
07/24/18 9:55:37 PM
#25:


Yay, Britton gets to pitch in the wildcard game!
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WiggumFan267
07/25/18 12:42:41 AM
#26:


the thing I am most worried about, re: trading deGrom, is that it's going to be Jeff and Fred in charge of it, not the GMs, and not the analytics people (it was reported the Analytics team, which one of the new 3-headed GMs is a part of, that they advised to not sign Jason Vargas, but someone "above them", gee I wonder who, overruled them, and had them sign Vargas anyway).

And with that being the case, they're not going to trade in order to get the best player, or the most fitting return, or if they should trade at all (I still dont think they should cuz theres not a prospect package out there worth his value... and anyone you get wont be anything close to a guarantee like he is... but I'm willing to listen and consider).

Their decisions will be based on what makes them LOOK BEST. Or what makes them the most money. Or whatever makes the Yankees look worse. Or something along those lines. They do not, have not, and will never act in the best interest of the team/putting the best team on their field. time and time again its only in the interest of their ego.and even when its trying to look good, theyre so incompetent they look bad anyway.
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WiggumFan267
07/25/18 11:21:23 AM
#27:


4 days ago. Cespedes activated from DL. Cespedes says "I need heel surgery or else I will never be 100%. It will take 8-10 months". They knew about this when they traded for him in 2015, and knew it got worse in June of this year, while rehabbing (Ricco, one of the interim GMs said he has a "chronic heel issue" that needs addressing).

3 days ago. A Mets FO member (probably a Wilpon) says to a mets reporter that Cespedes is exaggerating his injury. He does this to turn fans against Cespedes. (Why else would you say this as a Mets FO person?)

2 days ago. Cespedes has seen literally 4 doctors by now about this condition, but since being activated, no one from the Mets FO has publically spoken about it. They are hiding.

Today. Cespedes goes on the DL and will need 2 surgeries (one per heel). He will miss at least 8-10 months, possibly more.
The Mets GM goes on note saying the Cespedes contract is insured but "When asked if the Mets have the ability to reinvest the money saved into player payroll, John Ricco said the team has not yet revised its baseball operations plan."

For reference, the Mets recoup 75 percent of David Wright's contract via insurance. Jeff Wilpon said in January that he considers Wright's entire contract part of the payroll, and so the team does not reinvest money saved via insurance into baseball operations.

THE WILPONS. FUCKING. INTERFERE. IN. EVERYTHING.

THEY. ONLY. DO. THINGS. TO. LOOK. GOOD.

THEY. DO. NOT. CARE. ABOUT. THE. TEAM. AT. ALL.

MLB. NEEDS. TO. FUCKING. DO SOMETHING.
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WiggumFan267
07/25/18 11:25:17 AM
#28:


They willingly admitted they stole money from the team and MLB doesn't care.

They say Cespedes is lying about his injuries in order so it looks like he's the bad guy for making it up, not the Wilpons for failing to address his injury properly, and not treating the player with the care they deserve. Instead the activate him and force him to play through injury but MLB doesn't care.
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WiggumFan267
07/25/18 11:27:46 AM
#29:


Regarding this:

For reference, the Mets recoup 75 percent of David Wright's contract via insurance. Jeff Wilpon said in January that he considers Wright's entire contract part of the payroll, and so the team does not reinvest money saved via insurance into baseball operations.

This is the definition of a scam.
Theyll do the same exact thing for Cspedes.

Assuming David doesnt retire, the Wilpons will recoup $33M in 2019 from Cspedes and Wrights contract. None of which will be re-invested. Just remember that.

(ref: https://twitter.com/PSLToFlushing/status/1022133937768947712)
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GeneralKenobi85
07/25/18 12:23:21 PM
#30:


I wonder if the Mets are going to trade Wheeler. Honestly, at the moment he's looking like the best starter available. If he is available.
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WiggumFan267
07/25/18 5:47:15 PM
#31:


No matter if they're going to try to contend next year , or not (or claim they're going to contend but then half-ass their offseason - aka what they always do), I think they should be willing to do it. Obviously wait for the right return. A baseball insider type said the expected return should be something like a Top 75 MLB prospect. He has a year of control and he's a buy high guy, and the market is good. So I think that makes sense. I don't think he can have this kind of year next year so even if they're competing next year, I'd trade him on those grounds.

As always, #DependsOnTheDeal.
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Forceful_Dragon
07/25/18 6:27:41 PM
#32:


I have 1 and a half sticks of mostly unchewed gum and a yellow starburst. Deal?
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WiggumFan267
07/25/18 7:04:23 PM
#33:


what kind of gum
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Forceful_Dragon
07/25/18 8:20:27 PM
#34:


Extra, so you know it lasts.
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neonreaper
07/26/18 8:12:46 AM
#35:


Buck is still a master at his craft
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WiggumFan267
07/26/18 12:48:12 PM
#36:


Another great wilpon article, this is one of the better ones I've read so far:

https://deadspin.com/how-bad-does-it-have-to-get-before-rob-manfred-does-som-1827876806

Also, not directly related to that article. It really has been coming more and apparent that 2015 really was a fluke. I mean looking at it now, duh, but they really had the potential to EASILY be sustainedly(?) amazing. That was 100% there but they never took advantage of it. the point being, dont think the wilpons did something good in 2015 and managed to put a good team together one year. They didn't. They just got super lucky. Like to a ridiculous degree. That 2015 team was absolutely terrible for 3 months of the season, ok for 2, and fantastic for 1. They got hot at the right time, while the Nats collapsed. Something like that will never happen again through the sort of luck they had. So don't use 2015 as a crutch of competency. It was nice to have a fun season for 1 year out of like the other 11 (literally). But thats all it was was luck. The Wilpons did not build or lend itself to building a successful team.
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WiggumFan267
07/26/18 1:01:10 PM
#37:


The Mets win percentage over their last ten seasons is just .474 ... that is the *worst* it has been for the franchise since their stretch from 1976-1986 (collective .465 win percentage over that period).
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guffguy89
07/26/18 1:43:59 PM
#38:


Brewers looking at Zach Wheeler. Is he any good?
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WiggumFan267
07/26/18 2:21:38 PM
#39:


*Zack

WiggumFan267 posted...
No matter if they're going to try to contend next year , or not (or claim they're going to contend but then half-ass their offseason - aka what they always do), I think they should be willing to do it. Obviously wait for the right return. A baseball insider type said the expected return should be something like a Top 75 MLB prospect. He has a year of control and he's a buy high guy, and the market is good. So I think that makes sense. I don't think he can have this kind of year next year so even if they're competing next year, I'd trade him on those grounds.

As always, #DependsOnTheDeal.


he's the best available pitcher "on the market" (he may not be on the market?)
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WiggumFan267
07/26/18 2:30:28 PM
#40:


https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1022544539955982339


though he's in the middle of talks, some would still be surprised if the mets traded Zack Wheeler. rival: "They think they can win next year."


lmfao

WiggumFan267 posted...
No matter if they're going to try to contend next year , or not (or claim they're going to contend but then half-ass their offseason - aka what they always do), I think they should be willing to do it [trade wheeler].

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KCF0107
07/26/18 2:33:35 PM
#41:


Once I heard that the Brewers might be interested in Soria, I was checking out their prospects to see who could potentially come over. Medeiros was the first one that I saw as a possibility.
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guffguy89
07/26/18 3:11:34 PM
#42:


Brewers did get Soria. This will help our bullpen for sure, but we still need more. Another good starter in the rotation would be huge for us.
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GeneralKenobi85
07/26/18 3:13:50 PM
#43:


Looks like the Yankees got Happ for Drury and some prospects. I'm glad Drury will most likely get the playing time he deserves at least.
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WiggumFan267
07/26/18 3:21:40 PM
#44:


As is now always the case, the White Sox did like infinitely better in trading Soria than the Mets did in trading Familia. All because they demanded they pay full $3M remaining for him.

Sell the fucking team.
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tazzyboyishere
07/26/18 11:08:13 PM
#45:


Oh cool, looks like we're getting Hamels. He looks pretty inconsistent this year, but will almost certainly be better than Chatwood.
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Reg
07/27/18 7:26:35 AM
#46:


tazzyboyishere posted...
Oh cool, looks like we're getting Hamels. He looks pretty inconsistent this year, but will almost certainly be better than Chatwood.

His highs this year have been as good as he's ever been imo, but yeah the inconsistency has kind of been defining this season. Even putting aside how bad the team as a whole has been.
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neonreaper
07/27/18 8:06:37 AM
#47:


Judge's wrist is busted for August. Wrist injuries can be nagging so hopefully it doesn't go that way.
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WiggumFan267
07/27/18 10:08:50 AM
#48:


Joey Bats is available! he's actually having a decent little year, he'll help someone. nice OBP. can play a little 3rd if you need him to

(seriously its annoying af I cant say Bautista without getting a warning message and I just want to quickpost but w/e first world problems)
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tazzyboyishere
07/27/18 12:52:33 PM
#49:


Whoa, we got Hamels for a mediocre reliever, a prospect I've never heard of, AND the Rangers are paying off most of his contract? Still a player to be named, but damn.
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guffguy89
07/27/18 1:54:59 PM
#50:


Except Hamels has not been pitching well lately at all. ERA of 6.02 since June 1. It's a well known name, but he has legit potential to be a dud for you guys.
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