Current Events > Photo of a woman condemned to die in a crate in a remote desert (1913).

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Solar_Crimson
07/25/18 8:40:52 AM
#1:


https://imgur.com/a/du0gMC2

https://imgur.com/TMi4wvg
This photo was taken in July 1913 by French photographer Albert Kahn. Albert Kahn was a millionaire banker who pioneered color photography using the process invented by the Lumire brothers. During his trip through exotic countries, Albert Kahn visited Mongolia where he took this picture of a woman who was condemned to slow and painful starvation by being deposited in a remote desert inside a wooden crate that was to become her tomb. Initially the bowls on the ground had water in it, though was not intentionally refilled, and the person inside was allowed to beg for food which often just prolonged their suffering as they generally didnt get enough food for the passersby. The photographer had to leave her in the box because it would be against a prime directive of anthropologists to intervene in another cultures law and order system. The photo was first published in the 1922 issue of National Geographic under the caption Mongolian prisoner in a box. It was the publishers who made the claim that the woman was condemned to die of starvation as a punishment for adultery. Since then, many people expressed doubts over the story, although the authenticity of the photo is undisputed.

Immurement (from Latin im- in and mrus wall; literally walling in) is a form of imprisonment, usually for life, in which a person is placed within an enclosed space with no exits. This includes instances where people have been enclosed in extremely tight confinement, such as within a coffin. When used as a means of execution, the prisoner is simply left to die from starvation or dehydration. Immurement was practiced in Mongolia as recently as the early 20th century. It is not necessarily clear that all thus immured were meant to die of starvation, though. In a newspaper report from 1914, it is written: ..the prisons and dungeons of the Far Eastern country contain a number of refined Chinese shut up for life in heavy iron-bound coffins, which do not permit them to sit upright or lie down. These prisoners see daylight for only a few minutes daily when the food is thrown into their coffins through a small hole.

Kind of sad, especially if her crime was something as relatively minor as adultery.
Though I wonder if her extramarital partner was punished if that was the case?
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nicklebro
07/25/18 8:43:48 AM
#2:


God could you imagine dying that way? That shit terrifies me.
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ReignFury
07/25/18 9:02:31 AM
#3:


Good post.
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Darkman124
07/25/18 9:04:34 AM
#4:


Humans' capacity for cruelty is boundless.
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Russman
07/25/18 9:05:18 AM
#5:


Its fascinating to look at past cultures
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pinky0926
07/25/18 9:08:22 AM
#6:


Russman posted...
Its fascinating to look at past cultures


Past cultures? Stuff like this still happens in a lot of countries. You can still get necklaced in much of africa for being gay.
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NeonOctopus
07/25/18 9:08:42 AM
#7:


Solar_Crimson posted...
Kind of sad, especially if her crime was something as relatively minor as adultery.

Thot = Patrolled

Jk, that really sucks >_>
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Heineken14
07/25/18 9:11:25 AM
#8:


Man, wonder what sort of video games they played back then to come up with shit that heinous!
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DevsBro
07/25/18 9:13:18 AM
#9:


You know, I always assumed recording disturbances and attrocities instead of helping came about with the smartphone, but apparently it started with the camera.
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nicklebro
07/25/18 9:20:31 AM
#10:


DevsBro posted...
You know, I always assumed recording disturbances and attrocities instead of helping came about with the smartphone, but apparently it started with the camera.

You don't seem to understand why, they literally addressed this in the article. And really what kind he going to do? Spend the rest of his life getting food for this woman?
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DevsBro
07/25/18 9:22:08 AM
#11:


nicklebro posted...
DevsBro posted...
You know, I always assumed recording disturbances and attrocities instead of helping came about with the smartphone, but apparently it started with the camera.

You don't seem to understand why, they literally addressed this in the article. And really what kind he going to do? Spend the rest of his life getting food for this woman?

Just an observation.
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nicklebro
07/25/18 9:28:08 AM
#12:


DevsBro posted...
nicklebro posted...
DevsBro posted...
You know, I always assumed recording disturbances and attrocities instead of helping came about with the smartphone, but apparently it started with the camera.

You don't seem to understand why, they literally addressed this in the article. And really what kind he going to do? Spend the rest of his life getting food for this woman?

Just an observation.

A misunderstood observation when accounting for context.
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LightningAce11
07/25/18 9:29:59 AM
#13:


Solar_Crimson posted...
it would be against a prime directive of anthropologists to intervene in another cultures law and order system.

I don't get this.

Why not try to do the right thing, regardless of what the culture is?
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VTBM
07/25/18 9:34:00 AM
#14:


LightningAce11 posted...
Solar_Crimson posted...
it would be against a prime directive of anthropologists to intervene in another cultures law and order system.

I don't get this.

Why not try to do the right thing, regardless of what the culture is?


Because he'll be thrown in the box too.
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treewojima
07/25/18 9:34:24 AM
#15:


LightningAce11 posted...
Solar_Crimson posted...
it would be against a prime directive of anthropologists to intervene in another cultures law and order system.

I don't get this.

Why not try to do the right thing, regardless of what the culture is?


if he set her free, what would they have done to him? she was put in that box to die by the local authorities. the humane choice was to accelerate that by not feeding or helping her, because it would only prolong her suffering

if anything, it would have been more humane to put a bullet in her head, but that wouldn't be very respectful of their justice system either
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nicklebro
07/25/18 9:34:47 AM
#16:


LightningAce11 posted...
Solar_Crimson posted...
it would be against a prime directive of anthropologists to intervene in another cultures law and order system.

I don't get this.

Why not try to do the right thing, regardless of what the culture is?

Because "the right thing" is not always what you think it is. Interfering in other cultures can have dire effects, plus it ruins the work of an anthropologist. Think about seeing a bird that's on deaths doorstep, seems like the right thing to do. But then maybe that teaches the birds to come to people for food, which can go wrong in all kinds of ways, and might even flip the ecosystem on it's head if you do it enough.

It's pretty much one of those deals where you just have to trust that the people who are experts in this field know what they're talking about. Otherwise you'll have to dedicate some time to studying anthropology to learn why they are forbidden from interfering in nature as well as other cultures.
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LightningAce11
07/25/18 9:45:30 AM
#17:


Still, it's pretty sad. This dude comes over and begins snapping pictures. Can't imagine what she must have felt.
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eston
07/25/18 9:50:11 AM
#18:


Considering the time period and how remote this was, she might not have even known what a camera was
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Chicken
07/25/18 9:51:23 AM
#19:


fuck the prime directive
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haloiscoolisbak
07/25/18 9:53:21 AM
#20:


he photographer had to leave her in the box because it would be against a prime directive of anthropologists to intervene in another cultures law and order system.

what a lame excuse.

no offence to other cultures but we have international laws and shit, if you're stuck in the stone age then we have the right to intervene
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Heineken14
07/25/18 9:54:01 AM
#21:


treewojima posted...
if he set her free, what would they have done to him? she was put in that box to die by the local authorities.


Exactly. Ok, so you free her... now what? You get caught, she's back in the box and you.... are probably in a box as well now.
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Shuto-uke
07/25/18 9:54:15 AM
#22:


Darkman124 posted...
Humans' capacity for cruelty is boundless.
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E32005
07/25/18 9:54:15 AM
#23:


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Darkrobotisback
07/25/18 9:56:37 AM
#24:


What's that thing sticking out of the arm hole?
Her head?
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DevsBro
07/25/18 10:06:53 AM
#25:


nicklebro posted...
DevsBro posted...
nicklebro posted...
DevsBro posted...
You know, I always assumed recording disturbances and attrocities instead of helping came about with the smartphone, but apparently it started with the camera.

You don't seem to understand why, they literally addressed this in the article. And really what kind he going to do? Spend the rest of his life getting food for this woman?

Just an observation.

A misunderstood observation when accounting for context.

Misunderstood how? What are you inferring that I'm not implying?
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nicklebro
07/25/18 10:12:40 AM
#26:


DevsBro posted...

Misunderstood how? What are you inferring that I'm not implying?

Because you're equating the apathy that goes along with ignoring atrocities filmed on a smartphone with tbe rules anthropologists musr follow while taking pictures of deveststing scenes.

The two are not even comparable.
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DevsBro
07/25/18 10:21:04 AM
#27:


nicklebro posted...
DevsBro posted...

Misunderstood how? What are you inferring that I'm not implying?

Because you're equating the apathy that goes along with ignoring atrocities filmed on a smartphone with tbe rules anthropologists musr follow while taking pictures of deveststing scenes.

The two are not even comparable.

Nah. I was comparing the action but not really trying to make any statement about the motivation.

I mean, I could talk about the motivation. Obviously it's BS to just let bad stuff happen because of some rule in whatever anthropologist club but I wasn't really trying to go down that path.
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Veggeta X
07/25/18 10:27:35 AM
#28:


I've heard similar stories in parts of east Asia but what the woman did is far worst than just simple adultery. Not only did she cheated on her husband, she lied saying the guy cheated with was her cousin. They both planned to kill her husband and tried torturing him. The husband caught on and got the villagers involved and they were both caught red handed. The cheating wife and her boyfriend was locked in a cage in a cave.
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Solar_Crimson
07/25/18 10:29:16 AM
#29:


haloiscoolisbak posted...
he photographer had to leave her in the box because it would be against a prime directive of anthropologists to intervene in another cultures law and order system.

what a lame excuse.

no offence to other cultures but we have international laws and shit, if you're stuck in the stone age then we have the right to intervene

Note that, again, this was taken in 1913. Well before said laws were crafted.
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kingdrake2
07/25/18 10:32:53 AM
#30:


Veggeta X posted...
I've heard similar stories in parts of east Asia but what the woman did is far worst than just simple adultery. Not only did she cheated on her husband, she lied saying the guy cheated with was her cousin. They both planned to kill her husband and tried torturing him. The husband caught on and got the villagers involved and they were both caught red handed. The cheating wife and her boyfriend was locked in a cage in a cave.


if she only stayed faithful or just broke up with him. fate could of been changed.
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nicklebro
07/25/18 10:54:40 AM
#31:


DevsBro posted...

I mean, I could talk about the motivation. Obviously it's BS to just let bad stuff happen because of some rule in whatever anthropologist club but I wasn't really trying to go down that path.

Yeah it's make you look really ignorant if you did that, so I'd recommend just leaving.
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Pow Pow Punishment
07/25/18 11:00:18 AM
#32:


"The photographer had to leave her in the box because it would be against a prime directive of anthropologists to intervene in another cultures law and order system."

F*** that. Some aspects of all human cultures are hideous and should be battled whenever possible.

Also, humans are not birds.
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nicklebro
07/25/18 11:02:44 AM
#33:


Pow Pow Punishment posted...
"The photographer had to leave her in the box because it would be against a prime directive of anthropologists to intervene in another cultures law and order system."

F*** that. Some aspects of all human cultures are hideous and should be battled whenever possible.

Also, humans are not birds.

So what should he have done?
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Pow Pow Punishment
07/25/18 11:06:19 AM
#34:


nicklebro posted...

So what should he have done?

No idea. Don't know what resources or tools he had access to. That's why I said "whenever possible". Sheer physical inability or safety (if you're in a mob, for example) are obviously not part of that.
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spanky1
07/25/18 11:15:03 AM
#35:


If Captain Janeway was there she probably would have intervened.

Not Picard though.
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nicklebro
07/25/18 11:15:39 AM
#36:


Pow Pow Punishment posted...
nicklebro posted...

So what should he have done?

No idea. Don't know what resources or tools he had access to. That's why I said "whenever possible". Sheer physical inability or safety (if you're in a mob, for example) are obviously not part of that.

And what if he has the knowledge that even if he could help, it'd do more harm in the end anyways? Cuz that's what anthropologists are telling you and you're letting your emotions get the best of you when you claim they're full of shit.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And it's people like you who claim you know better than people who's profession it is to know this kinda thing. All because of a knee jerk emotional reaction based on 0 knowledge 0 expertise and 0 logic. You think they're ignoring people in need out of pure apathy? Cmon man, think better.
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Turtlebread
07/25/18 11:16:59 AM
#37:


the guy that took the picture was a millionaire
don't tell me there wasn't a way
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MasterOfSex
07/25/18 11:18:28 AM
#38:


people shit on white american for dominating america and the indian tribes.
But just look at their cultures like this....
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Pow Pow Punishment
07/25/18 11:18:48 AM
#39:


nicklebro posted...
And what if he has the knowledge that even if he could help, it'd do more harm in the end anyways? Cuz that's what anthropologists are telling you and you're letting your emotions get the best of you when you claim they're full of s***.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And it's people like you who claim you know better than people who's profession it is to know this kinda thing. All because of a knee jerk emotional reaction based on 0 knowledge 0 expertise and 0 logic. You think they're ignoring people in need out of pure apathy? Cmon man, think better.

You don't need to be an expert in a certain field to hold a desire for a type of society you want to live in. That's also logical from an evolutionary standpoint.

Human solidarity should trump notions of "professionalism" (and should also be a very knee-jerk reaction).
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DevsBro
07/25/18 11:20:34 AM
#40:


nicklebro posted...
DevsBro posted...

I mean, I could talk about the motivation. Obviously it's BS to just let bad stuff happen because of some rule in whatever anthropologist club but I wasn't really trying to go down that path.

Yeah it's make you look really ignorant if you did that, so I'd recommend just leaving.

That's one reason I didn't, tbh.
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spikethedevil
07/25/18 11:25:54 AM
#41:


MasterOfSex posted...
people shit on white american for dominating america and the indian tribes.
But just look at their cultures like this....


Native Americans In Mongolia? And yes people tend to get pissed off at genocide. @MasterOfSex
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Pow Pow Punishment
07/25/18 11:26:02 AM
#42:


nicklebro posted...
You think they're ignoring people in need out of pure apathy? Cmon man, think better.

Also, this is a strawman and tbh I think you're actually making a more emotional argument out of assumptions than me. And I say that as someone who posits that human emotion is undoubtedly needed for social cohesion and doesn't shy away from that accusation.
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BaphometFlux
07/25/18 11:38:32 AM
#45:


It's definitely a hard position to be in , something I can't imagine doing. But trying to go against that local custom , especially in that era would have been helpful to no one, sad to say.
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Foppe
07/25/18 11:47:12 AM
#46:


Turtlebread posted...
the guy that took the picture was a millionaire
don't tell me there wasn't a way

They let people starve to death for adultery, what do you think would happen if an outsider came and offered them money to break their own traditions and laws?
And even if they let her free, how long would it take until somebody decided to take the law in their own hands and give her the punishment they believe she deserved?
And why does she deserve to be released and not everybody else that got the same punishment?
You expect him to hire merchenaries and take over the country, changing the laws and become a dictator?
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Turtlebread
07/25/18 11:52:38 AM
#47:


Foppe posted...
Turtlebread posted...
the guy that took the picture was a millionaire
don't tell me there wasn't a way

They let people starve to death for adultery, what do you think would happen if an outsider came and offered them money to break their own traditions and laws?
And even if they let her free, how long would it take until somebody decided to take the law in their own hands and give her the punishment they believe she deserved?
And why does she deserve to be released and not everybody else that got the same punishment?
You expect him to hire merchenaries and take over the country, changing the laws and become a dictator?


Yeah they could have bought her for like 5 bucks
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Foppe
07/25/18 11:54:28 AM
#48:


Turtlebread posted...
Foppe posted...
Turtlebread posted...
the guy that took the picture was a millionaire
don't tell me there wasn't a way

They let people starve to death for adultery, what do you think would happen if an outsider came and offered them money to break their own traditions and laws?
And even if they let her free, how long would it take until somebody decided to take the law in their own hands and give her the punishment they believe she deserved?
And why does she deserve to be released and not everybody else that got the same punishment?
You expect him to hire merchenaries and take over the country, changing the laws and become a dictator?


Yeah they could have bought her for like 5 bucks

I want a source that you could buy a death sentenced person for 5 bucks back then.
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Pow Pow Punishment
07/25/18 11:56:27 AM
#49:


Foppe posted...
And why does she deserve to be released and not everybody else that got the same punishment?

This is another strawman. Nobody is suggesting anthropologists go on a crusade to seek out every victim around the globe.
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Solar_Crimson
07/25/18 11:59:32 AM
#50:


MasterOfSex posted...
people shit on white american for dominating america and the indian tribes.
But just look at their cultures like this....

European cultures aren't innocent of this sort of stuff, either.
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Turtlebread
07/25/18 12:12:48 PM
#51:


Foppe posted...
Turtlebread posted...
Foppe posted...
Turtlebread posted...
the guy that took the picture was a millionaire
don't tell me there wasn't a way

They let people starve to death for adultery, what do you think would happen if an outsider came and offered them money to break their own traditions and laws?
And even if they let her free, how long would it take until somebody decided to take the law in their own hands and give her the punishment they believe she deserved?
And why does she deserve to be released and not everybody else that got the same punishment?
You expect him to hire merchenaries and take over the country, changing the laws and become a dictator?


Yeah they could have bought her for like 5 bucks

I want a source that you could buy a death sentenced person for 5 bucks back then.


5 bucks was like a million bucks back then
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Kitt
07/25/18 12:18:37 PM
#52:


https://imgur.com/a8Etsb3
pinky0926 posted...
Russman posted...
Its fascinating to look at past cultures


Past cultures? Stuff like this still happens in a lot of countries. You can still get necklaced in much of africa for being gay.

I'm curious to know what this is, but something tells me I don't want to know.
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