Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 191: Hey Now, You're a Lodestar

(+) Yeah! (+)

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Kenri posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Trump ran an amazing campaign. Only thing he did well. He appealed to the right type of people. Sadly.

If he ran an amazing campaign against Clinton's lousy one, why was the result so close?

Because Trump is the worst candidate for President since the civil war?

Yeah fucking Stephen Douglas man am I right
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https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1040403716170502151?s=19

Hmm I wonder if Fox News is pro-Avenatti
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oh sure avenatti is the creepy one

not the guy he's suing

that guy's not creepy

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Corrik, ask yourself: what reason is there to execute a warrant on a murder victim, requested after their death?

They were gathering evidence at a crime scene.
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With regard to Trump running a good/bad campaign: Trump ran a campaign that was tailor-made to the situation he found himself in - which was 16 bad Republican opponents, and 1 bad Democratic opponent. It's hard to say how he would have done things differently had he been up against different opponents. The campaign Trump ran would have been crushed by Bernie, but, naturally, Trump would have campaigned differently if Bernie were his opponent. It's hard to say if it would have worked, or if Trump was just uniquely suited to the situation he found himself in.
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/fox4/status/1040361795519541249?s=21

DEVELOPING: Search warrant: Marijuana found in Botham Jeans apartment after deadly shooting bit.ly/2D2fd0u

This is the dude who got shot and killed in his own apartment by the cop who thought it was hers

This is the sort of basic level racist playbook stuff thats been exposed so many times over and over again and yet the media still tries to use it

At least they used a nice picture

And here I had a bit more respect for the local affiliate than that.

Fuck them.

9/13/2018
LAW AND CRIME - Giuliani Confirms Trump and Manafort Have Joint Defense Agreement for Mueller Probe, Share Confidential Information

President Donald Trump has a joint defense agreement with former campaign chairman Paul Manafort. This agreement is presumably related to all aspects of the ongoing Russia probe led by special counsel Robert Mueller.

The presidents lead attorney, Rudy Giuliani, confirmed the agreement and said that President Trumps team was regularly in contact with Manaforts own attorneys. On Thursday, Giuliani also confirmed that the arrangement allowed both sides to share confidential information with one another. In comments to Politico, Giuliani said:

All during the investigation we have an open communication with them. Defense lawyers talk to each other all the time where as long as our clients authorize it therefore we have a better idea of whats going to happen. Thats very common.

Specifically, Giuliani noted that he had spoken with Manaforts lead defense attorney Kevin Downing just before and just after the long-deliberated verdicts were delivered in Manaforts Eastern District of Virginia trial held during the month of August.

Giulani clarified the ethical issues involved in such an information-sharing arrangement, saying, Itd all be attorney-client privilege not just from our point of view but from theirs.

What exactly is a joint defense agreement? The American Bar Associations Lee Ziffer described the function and utility of joint defense agreements in an explainer for the group.

They allow defendants to share information with other defense counsel without relative fear of waiving work product or attorney-client privileges, he Ziffer said. They allow development of a unified defense strategy to defend a claim and to avoid duplicative work. It allows defendants to divide the issues and conquer. One defendant can handle expert issues; another defendant can handle discovery issues, motions in limine and so forth.

Trump and his former attorney and fixer Michael Cohen were once part of such an agreement together but that all ended when Cohen switched out his attorneys during his federal criminal investigation. Trump also, at one time, had a joint defense agreement with Michael Flynn, who famously flipped on the president.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/giuliani-confirms-trump-and-manafort- have-joint-defense-agreement-for-mueller-probe-share-confidential-information/

Donald and Manafort teaming up for a joint defense agreement already looks bad enough, but also I don't know much about joint defense agreements.

That said, seeing that Donald has previously done joint defense agreements with both Michael Cohen and Michael Flynn gives me no faith in the innocence of him teaming with Manafort.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

A Democrat who shares 75% of your beliefs is far better than a Republican who shares none.

perhaps i'm not as hardcore leftist as some of the other people posting here, but i find it hard to imagine that a republican would share absolutely none of my beliefs.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

A Democrat who shares 75% of your beliefs is far better than a Republican who shares none.

perhaps i'm not as hardcore leftist as some of the other people posting here, but i find it hard to imagine that a republican would share absolutely none of my beliefs.

Many in this topic view it very black and white. It is hard to imagine that they might share more views with me than some democrats. And vice versa.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

A Democrat who shares 75% of your beliefs is far better than a Republican who shares none.

perhaps i'm not as hardcore leftist as some of the other people posting here, but i find it hard to imagine that a republican would share absolutely none of my beliefs.

I don't disagree with this in concept, but the way that politics has become so divided and most things have been party line votes, it's hard for me to see Republicans breaking with their party to vote with their beliefs.
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Manafort's plead to conspiracy charges?

yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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GuessMyUserName posted...

Manafort's plead to conspiracy charges?

yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Yeah this is a much bigger deal than doorik's feelings.

The special counsel says he's cooperating. Trump previously railed against the investigation because it costs $10m to taxpayers - but Manafort is surrendering over $46m. So this "witch hunt" is making the country money, and has had a pretty large number of guilty verdicts. I suspect trump is freaking out because he knows he owes the country similar millions of dollars.
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GuessMyUserName posted...

Manafort's plead to conspiracy charges?

yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

His plea deal has cooperation agreements in it too.

He's flipped.
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And this is where Trump pardons him.
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I can't speak to the accuracy of this, but I read --

Reasons why this is pardon proof:

1) Mueller already got the key pieces of testimony a pardon would thwart.
2) Manafort is subject to civil forfeiture; he loses $46M even w/pardon.
3) The dropped charges can be filed in states.

A pardon, at this point, does nothing. Nothing.
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except Trump look like he's got something to hide, more so than he already does.
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TotallyNotMI posted...

I can't speak to the accuracy of this, but I read --

Reasons why this is pardon proof:

1) Mueller already got the key pieces of testimony a pardon would thwart.
2) Manafort is subject to civil forfeiture; he loses $46M even w/pardon.
3) The dropped charges can be filed in states.

A pardon, at this point, does nothing. Nothing.

Mueller definitely knows what he's doing here.
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September 14th, 2018.

This will be a date.
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How long until Trump says this is the worst things to ever happen to America in the first two weeks of September?
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Donald J. Trump Retweeted
National Guard
Sep 12
Today, nearly 3,000 National Guard members from Guam, Hawaii, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia are on duty responding to or preparing to respond to hurricanes and a typhoon. https://ngpa.us/5959 #HurricaneFlorence

1 for every dead Puerto Rican.
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TotallyNotMI posted...

Mr Lasastryke posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

A Democrat who shares 75% of your beliefs is far better than a Republican who shares none.

perhaps i'm not as hardcore leftist as some of the other people posting here, but i find it hard to imagine that a republican would share absolutely none of my beliefs.

I don't disagree with this in concept, but the way that politics has become so divided and most things have been party line votes, it's hard for me to see Republicans breaking with their party to vote with their beliefs.

That's not the way to do it. Republicans won't break with the party, but if they agree with you, they shouldn't have to. It is also much easier to negotiate a deal when some Republicans agree with you on some issues. A global deal allows Republicans to maintain a united front.

Of course Republicans will not bargain without collecting their fee. Because they can. But that's because they won the last election.
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LapisLazuli posted...

September 14th, 2018.

This will be a date.

it's already my sister's birthday
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A reminder:

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1040636549342355457

Flashback. August 19, 2016. Newt Gingrich: "Nobody should underestimate how much Paul Manafort did to really help get this campaign to where it is right now." https://t.co/OlTOpC1B1l

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/14/pelosi-renews-obamas-war-on-coal-backs-group-looking-to-shut-down-coal-plants.html

Damn she must be feeling super confident that he is gonna retain his seat in West Virginia to say this shit before the midterms
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In July one of Diane Feinstein's constituents sent her a letter accusing Brett Kavanaugh of attempting to rape her at a party when he was a high schooler:

https://www.goo.gl/bB3Utk (New Yorker; Ronan Farrow + Jane Mayer)

She didn't tell other Dems, and referred the matter to the FBI (as the woman wasn't willing to come public). Within a day of this coming out, Chuck Grassley was ready with a letter from 65 women who knew Kavanaugh in high school. The fact that he could produce such a letter that quickly highly suggests that Grassley knew that some allegation of this nature might arise, which in turn makes the allegation more credible.
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Corrik posted...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/14/pelosi-renews-obamas-war-on-coal-backs-group-looking-to-shut-down-coal-plants.html

Damn she must be feeling super confident that he is gonna retain his seat in West Virginia to say this shit before the midterms

I cant believe shed openly vow to close steel plants like that.
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Obellisk posted...

oh god please let it be some secret sexual assault thats was buried for one reason or the other.

LordoftheMorons posted...

In July one of Diane Feinstein's constituents sent her a letter accusing Brett Kavanaugh of attempting to rape her at a party when he was a high schooler:

Wooo
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Espeon posted...

Corrik posted...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/14/pelosi-renews-obamas-war-on-coal-backs-group-looking-to-shut-down-coal-plants.html

Damn she must be feeling super confident that he is gonna retain his seat in West Virginia to say this shit before the midterms

I cant believe shed openly vow to close steel plants like that.

In a roundabout way yes. But, what is more pressing is how it relates to coal miners. To shut down coal fired plants means no coal, no mines (as she says to keep it in the ground). Which Manchin in no way in hell can support and is definitely gonna be used against him in the campaign now.
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Obellisk posted...

Obellisk posted...

oh god please let it be some secret sexual assault thats was buried for one reason or the other.

LordoftheMorons posted...

In July one of Diane Feinstein's constituents sent her a letter accusing Brett Kavanaugh of attempting to rape her at a party when he was a high schooler:

Wooo

I can only imagine wishing for a sexual assault to occur and cheering when you think it has. Like seriously.
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That is a 2018 Leftist in a nutshell. So shook by Trump that they're resorting to false rape allegations to desperately attempt to thwart his nominee.
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I was very much hoping it wasn't a sexual accusation

He's probably going to get confirmed anyway and Clarence Thomas is already one more creepy piece of shit than the Court should have.
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Corrik posted...

Obellisk posted...

Obellisk posted...

oh god please let it be some secret sexual assault thats was buried for one reason or the other.

LordoftheMorons posted...

In July one of Diane Feinstein's constituents sent her a letter accusing Brett Kavanaugh of attempting to rape her at a party when he was a high schooler:

Wooo

I can only imagine wishing for a sexual assault to occur and cheering when you think it has. Like seriously.

I think i'll go play the lottery, I got that hot streak going.
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Fun fact: With Manafort surrendering 46 million dollars in assets to the federal government, that means the Mueller investigations have actually earned a 36 million dollar profit for this country.
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maybe i'm a bad person for this but i don't care about what crimes you committed as a minor

feels like there are better reasons not to confirm hiim
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HarrietTubgirl posted...

That is a 2018 Leftist in a nutshell. So shook by Trump that they're resorting to false rape allegations to desperately attempt to thwart his nominee.

They should know by now that sexual assault allegations and sexual assault proof means nothing. You can still become president, why not a supreme court justice.
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yeah, this manafort thing is actually exciting
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Crossfiyah posted...

Fun fact: With Manafort surrendering 46 million dollars in assets to the federal government, that means the Mueller investigations have actually earned a 36 million dollar profit for this country.

Trumps going to spend it at his Golf Clubs.
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HarrietTubgirl posted...

That is a 2018 Leftist in a nutshell. So shook by Trump that they're resorting to false rape allegations to desperately attempt to thwart his nominee.

Or, just to offer an alternate viewpoint:

That is a 2018 Alt-Righter in a nutshell. Hate the Majority of Americans so much that theyre willing to hand wave rape allegations (and keep in mind, after the two parties vastly different responses to Roy Moore versus Al Franken, this isnt just a matter of Republicans not giving a shit when Kavanaugh is accused) so long as they can force their unpopular will on the powerless majority, solely because it makes them mad.
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banananor posted...

maybe i'm a bad person for this but i don't care about what crimes you committed as a minor

feels like there are better reasons not to confirm hiim

If he did drugs or stole something, sure

You don't need to be an adult to know that rape is wrong. If you're willing to do that (or attempt it), you're a piece of shit, full stop, and have no place being on the highest court in the land.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Within a day of this coming out, Chuck Grassley was ready with a letter from 65 women who knew Kavanaugh in high school. The fact that he could produce such a letter that quickly highly suggests that Grassley knew that some allegation of this nature might arise, which in turn makes the allegation more credible.

Amazing how some people have such a lack of common sense they can't make this connection and still think this is all fake.
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This is your reminder that civil forfeiture is absolutely disgusting and I'm disappointed in anybody cheering for it just because the target this one time happens to be utter scum.

Also fuck Newt Gingrich. The country would be a better place if he never existed.

Lol it's not civil forfeiture if you earned it illegally and you're forfeiting it as part of a plea deal to not spend the rest of your life in jail.

This is criminal forfeiture which is fine.

From wikipedia:

In civil forfeiture, assets are seized by police based on a suspicion of wrongdoing, and without having to charge a person with specific wrongdoing, with the case being between police and the thing itself, sometimes referred to by the Latin term in rem, meaning "against the property"; the property itself is the defendant and no criminal charge against the owner is needed.[1]

In contrast, criminal forfeiture is a legal action brought as "part of the criminal prosecution of a defendant", described by the Latin term in personam, meaning "against the person", and happens when government indicts or charges the property which is either used in connection with a crime, or derived from a crime, that is suspected of being committed by the defendant;[1] the seized assets are temporarily held and become government property officially after an accused person has been convicted by a court of law; if the person is found to be not guilty, the seized property must be returned.

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Crossfiyah posted...

Lol it's not civil forfeiture if you earned it illegally and you're forfeiting it as part of a plea deal to not spend the rest of your life in jail.

If giving it up is explicitly part of the plea deal, that's fine imo. I've only skimmed through things and I saw people using those words to describe it.

Those people are dumb.

If he wasn't found guilty he wouldn't be having his money taken. That's the difference between civil forfeiture and criminal forfeiture.

Civil forfeiture is fucked. Criminal forfeiture is fine.
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Crossfiyah posted...

Civil forfeiture is fucked.

Right, this is the point I wanted to make. I was a bit hasty in calling it out because I hadn't totally informed myself on the specifics.

Though frankly, if people are incorrectly calling it civil and still cheering it they need to be slapped for idiocy.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh too much news

You guys posted Farrow's article on Kavanaugh but the only thing I'll add to all that is ugh Feinstein sitting on this since July and not even briefing the other Dems is so dumb. It kinda made sense with the initial report (after rumors but before Farrow when there wasn't even mention of sexual assault) because that didn't sound like much of anything. But with Farrow's report? what was she doing

As for Manafort... wow. I really didn't think he was flipping. I was sure if he was going to do so he'd have done it long ago when it would have been more to his advantage to do so. That he let the first trial happen made me sure he was going for the pardon. A bit curious what changed. I guess it could be the guilty verdicts in Trial 1 but did he really think he'd win? Only other thing that makes sense to me is if he got indication from Trump there'd be no pardon.

Massive news though. Reminder that Manafort was in the Trump Tower meeting and IIRC he was reported to have taken contemporaneous notes on it.
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Feels like Trump missed his chance. Now there will be no pardon, and everyone knows he will throw you under the bus even if you risk going on trial for your life for him.
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FWIW one of the letter signees claims that she signed the letter last night, so maybe Grassley really did scramble it together in a day (though it doesnt stop the letter itself from being meaningless): https://twitter.com/virginiahume/status/1040631218092625921?s=21

Going forward with a vote without looking into things further is ridiculous though.
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The accusation is meaningless. It was made 40 years after the fact, without any supporting evidence, only after a Supreme Court nomination. It has zero credibility.
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red sox 777 posted...

only after a Supreme Court nomination.

this is like being upset because a drug test comes after you're being considered for a job instead of before LMAO
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