Current Events > Update on my Hiragana/Japanese learning thread.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Didn't mean to let that thread purge!

Still learning along. Got the hiragana and katakana pretty much down. I mean I don't have perfect recall of them, but enough to move on with my studies.

Doing sentences and stuff now.

I can tell you what means and why. That's about my level of grasp on the language.
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https://store.steampowered.com/app/438270/Learn_Japanese_To_Survive_Hiragana_Battle/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/554600/Learn_Japanese_To_Survive_Katakana_War/

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MoistenedYouth posted...

uhhh..

ta-na-ka-da-ma-hi-na-yu-na-ma-yu-ta-ma-ya-ni-ta

?

that was mostly by memory. Glanced at the chart a couple times.
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CiIantro posted...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/438270/Learn_Japanese_To_Survive_Hiragana_Battle/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/554600/Learn_Japanese_To_Survive_Katakana_War/

Interesting! Might check that out.
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Steve Nick posted...

MoistenedYouth posted...

uhhh..

ta-na-ka-da-ma-hi-na-yu-na-ma-yu-ta-ma-ya-ni-ta

?

that was mostly by memory. Glanced at the chart a couple times.

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My favorite tongue-twister. I like all the k-sounds in it.


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Forgettable posted...


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Steve Nick posted...

Didn't mean to let that thread purge!

Still learning along. Got the hiragana and katakana pretty much down. I mean I don't have perfect recall of them, but enough to move on with my studies.

Doing sentences and stuff now.

I can tell you what means and why. That's about my level of grasp on the language.

You are missing a between the and . Otherwise, yeah, that's proper.
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Reached the 1000 kanji mark a few days ago. Taking a break from it and focusing on vocab until the number of reviews per day decreases significantly.
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Rimmer_Dall posted...

Reached the 1000 kanji mark a few days ago. Taking a break from it and focusing on vocab until the number of reviews per day decreases significantly.

Vocab should be the focus, period. Kanji should always come with the words, not the other way around. Vocab is power.

This does mean you probably won't ever see certain ones for a long ass time, which is fine. This also means you're gonna learn some fairly obscure/unused ones, which is also fine. You may not encounter a certain reading for an otherwise common Kanji for a long time (looking at you ), which is fine too.

The brain doesn't "run out of room" for them, so enjoy the ride.
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YonicBoom posted...

Rimmer_Dall posted...

Reached the 1000 kanji mark a few days ago. Taking a break from it and focusing on vocab until the number of reviews per day decreases significantly.

Vocab should be the focus, period. Kanji should always come with the words, not the other way around. Vocab is power.

This does mean you probably won't ever see certain ones for a long ass time, which is fine. This also means you're gonna learn some fairly obscure/unused ones, which is also fine. You may not encounter a certain reading for an otherwise common Kanji for a long time (looking at you ), which is fine too.

The brain doesn't "run out of room" for them, so enjoy the ride.

It's mostly that I'm getting sick of the daily grind of writing 60-80 kanji on top of learning 15 new ones every day. I'll do the rest eventually, but not until the number of kanji I have to repeat per day is way lower.
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Only old men and women use
Its either or depending if you're cool guy or not

vocedelmorte posted...

Only old men and women use
Its either or depending if you're cool guy or not

Pretty sure you mean is still used a lot, or as I am told. Yeah, Boku and Ore are there too, but that's like..... a boy's thing and a tough-guy-who-thinks-his-dick-is-big thing.

And lol, typing this, I just had roll call in an econ class and said "hai" when he asked if he was pronouncing my last name right. That was embarrassing.
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Pretty sure you mean is still used a lot, or as I am told

is just more trendy and casual way to say official
And none of Japanese men i know actually use it, unless they're gay and bottom and want to emphasize their femininity ;D

vocedelmorte posted...

Pretty sure you mean is still used a lot, or as I am told

is just more trendy and casual way to say official
And none of Japanese men i know actually use it, unless they're gay and bottom and want to emphasize their femininity ;D

Fun fact, Urahara Kisuke uses it in Bleach.
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Is there some kind of thumb-rule I can use to know whether is pronounced or in any given sentence?


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@Rimmer_Dall posted...

Is there some kind of thumb-rule I can use to know whether is pronounced or in any given sentence?

Read more stuff and you'll figure it out

This is sort of a set construction right here, X() Y

Most of the time you'll see it read is attached to a verb stem like so on and so forth, where it would not sound or feel natural to say Say them out loud, they sound fucking weird.

Likewise, saying something like in the above post () (the way of not knowing is better,, isn't it?) would sound really strange with instead of

The only way to get to this point of understanding how it seems and sounds strange is to listen and read more though, up front that construction is really dumb sounding to most learners because of how roundabout it is, but... gotta get used to it for other similar things.

As an aside, typically verbs will be in past tense when using but there's no hard and fast rule, it does flow a lot better. Technically verbs in the negative are adjectives so in the case of your pic that's why it's not going full bore and using .

for example sounds a lot better than , literally easier to say "" than "()"
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Rimmer_Dall posted...

vocedelmorte posted...

Pretty sure you mean is still used a lot, or as I am told

is just more trendy and casual way to say official
And none of Japanese men i know actually use it, unless they're gay and bottom and want to emphasize their femininity ;D

Fun fact, Urahara Kisuke uses it in Bleach.

I was talking about real and modern life.

YonicBoom posted...

@Rimmer_Dall posted...

Is there some kind of thumb-rule I can use to know whether is pronounced or in any given sentence?

Read more stuff and you'll figure it out

This is sort of a set construction right here, X() Y

Most of the time you'll see it read is attached to a verb stem like so on and so forth, where it would not sound or feel natural to say Say them out loud, they sound fucking weird.

Likewise, saying something like in the above post () (the way of not knowing is better,, isn't it?) would sound really strange with instead of

The only way to get to this point of understanding how it seems and sounds strange is to listen and read more though, up front that construction is really dumb sounding to most learners because of how roundabout it is, but... gotta get used to it for other similar things.

As an aside, typically verbs will be in past tense when using but there's no hard and fast rule, it does flow a lot better. Technically verbs in the negative are adjectives so in the case of your pic that's why it's not going full bore and using .

for example sounds a lot better than , literally easier to say "" than "()"

Yeah, about the reading to get used to it part, are you recommending I read manga with furigana for that? Because otherwise it'd be a bit difficult to see if I read it right or not without asking someone.
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Rimmer_Dall posted...

Yeah, about the reading to get used to it part, are you recommending I read manga with furigana for that?

Thing is, is such a common kanji that I'm not sure what manga is going to contain furigana over it... I've never seen anything besides like kid's video games (dragon quest, etc) with furigana over easy Kanji. Exception being which I think I saw once in like... Pokemon Colosseum? lol that reading though

It may be worth playing an older game in kana only to see some of the usage, but your vocab does need to be up to the task to handle it.
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YonicBoom posted...

Thing is, is such a common kanji that I'm not sure what manga is going to contain furigana over it... I've never seen anything besides like kid's video games (dragon quest, etc) with furigana over easy Kanji. Exception being which I think I saw once in like... Pokemon Colosseum? lol that reading though

Naruto and One Piece have furigana over every kanji other than from what I can tell, and even those have furigana for certain readings.
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I'm seriously slacking on my Japanese studies. Turns out it's too much to balance calculus, engineering courses, work, and a 2nd language.

I made it as far as verb conjugates, I think. Not very far
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Steve Nick posted...

CiIantro posted...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/438270/Learn_Japanese_To_Survive_Hiragana_Battle/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/554600/Learn_Japanese_To_Survive_Katakana_War/

Interesting! Might check that out.

I just started playing the Hiragana one

Seems like a neat idea to teach the basics

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Ugh... Having the same exact problem with that I'm having with . Can't tell when it's supposed to be read as and when it's supposed to be read as . Seems almost arbitrary.
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Just a matter of learning the words and contexts it's likely to appear in and going from there.

Don't be like me and overthink the magic of though. For some reason there was a moment in my ultra-beginner phase where I thought that was supposed to be read as , as in, potential form (had just learned about it that day iirc) and then I played a different game (kana only) which had it... as . Felt dumb, but there is now a 0% chance of me ever forgetting that.

Don't be discouraged either. Every time you're confused, that's another memory you'll have to refer back to later to remind you which one's which.
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Another important thing to note is that is basically only used for specific phrases or expressions and almost never as a general verb.

Yeah, don't think too hard on some of the usage/specific phrasing. Esp.
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I was reading the key to learning a language is to always think in that language and not in your home language
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YonicBoom posted...

Yeah, don't think too hard on some of the usage/specific phrasing. Esp.

Though, to be fair, is just a common verb.

skermac posted...

I was reading the key to learning a language is to always think in that language and not in your home language

A cool idea, once you have the necessary tools to think in it.

One of the things which is accelerating my learning of the language is that I am to the point where it is possible to indeed learn in Japanese.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

YonicBoom posted...

Yeah, don't think too hard on some of the usage/specific phrasing. Esp.

Though, to be fair, is just a common verb.

All in all, any word does need to be learned as a "word" and in context rather than in isolation. Knowing kanji is useless when you are better served knowing

same story. The nice thing is that learning these words, you've "learned" a handful of extra kanji, which isn't the point, but it advances you towards knowing them faster than trying to memorize a long list of readings and basing your understanding of the character on a vague keyword or something.
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I think learning both the kanji and the vocab is important. Sure, vocab and phrases are critical for practical application and expedited comprehension. Those are the words you use most often after all. But spending time studying the kanji themselves gives you a more complete picture of said vocab, assists retention, and allows for easier compartmentalization.

The reason kanji becomes easier is because the more you learn, the greater the web of connections in your head becomes. The more ways you approach studying kanji, the stronger the web becomes overall.

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YonicBoom posted...

Those are some good lessons

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Rimmer_Dall posted...

It's mostly that I'm getting sick of the daily grind of writing 60-80 kanji on top of learning 15 new ones every day. I'll do the rest eventually, but not until the number of kanji I have to repeat per day is way lower.

I'm at 1700 kanji that I'm reviewing with another 300 more to go. I haven't written a single one. What are you using to study kanji with? I'm using the the Anki flash card software. It's super useful as I can swap between my phone and computer and pick up where I left off. So I can go to a restaurant on my lunch break, do some studying, come back to work, and boom, on my computer, synched. Feels great that I recognize just all about all the kanji in this topic so far.
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Sad_Face posted...

Rimmer_Dall posted...

It's mostly that I'm getting sick of the daily grind of writing 60-80 kanji on top of learning 15 new ones every day. I'll do the rest eventually, but not until the number of kanji I have to repeat per day is way lower.

I'm at 1700 kanji that I'm reviewing with another 300 more to go. I haven't written a single one. What are you using to study kanji with? I'm using the the Anki flash card software. It's super useful as I can swap between my phone and computer and pick up where I left off. So I can go to a restaurant on my lunch break, do some studying, come back to work, and boom, on my computer, synched. Feels great that I recognize just all about all the kanji in this topic so far.

Same. Using the KKLC deck on Anki. For kanji in isolation I do production rather than recognition, though.
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Rimmer_Dall posted...

Same. Using the KKLC deck on Anki. For kanji in isolation I do production rather than recognition, though.

I am using the Nihongo Shark's deck, it's really just the Heisig books transposed onto flash cards. I've been at it since May, I really just want to stop and crack open my Genki books now.
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Writing is important practice for retention and for understanding their similarities. Also, it's better to understand individual kanji as nebulous concepts rather than strict meaning. It makes it easier understand their flexibility within the language proper.

Sad_Face posted...

Rimmer_Dall posted...

Same. Using the KKLC deck on Anki. For kanji in isolation I do production rather than recognition, though.

I am using the Nihongo Shark's deck, it's really just the Heisig books transposed onto flash cards. I've been at it since May, I really just want to stop and crack open my Genki books now.

Wait, you've only been learning Kanji and have yet to even look at "actual" Japanese? For 4 months?

There's an abundance of easy stuff to start reading at the beginner level. Spend 3 some odd months with NHK Easy News and work your way up from there. If you start doing this sooner rather than later, you're gonna make it that much easier to spend more time with, and subsequently get more out of, Japanese media of all sorts.
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So many good games not being localized for a long time like Trails, Great Ace Attorney, Fire Emblem