Board 8 > nonary nonsense: giggs plays zero time dilemma

(+) Yeah! (+)

hi guys! those of you with good memories for inconsequential things might recall my previous two zero escape playthrough topics last year. it's taken me a while to get to ZTD, but I figure I might as well complete the set by providing inane commentary, crackpot ideas and general snark along the way.

initial ruminations up shortly! let the games begin.
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It's a very complex game; hopefully you can follow it.
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so we're back in the desert. can't these people resolve their problems in a regular way?

just got the first "ending" - no idea if my coin choice mattered (gotta go blue) and if a nonary game would only result from a wrong choice, or if the real game starts from here regardless.

i can't see any obvious reason why Zero would allow his participants to leave without playing, but then it's not immediately clear - obviously - why anyone would create a nonary game here in the first place. but then, why on earth would I expect to understand anything now?

obvious initial mysteries:

- why is Akane here? shouldn't she be, like, saving the world or something? and where's Sigma? is he the guy with the purple hair?
- Zero seems to know about the impending apocalypse, and gives the team the chance to "save the world". Free the Soul types wouldn't want that to happen, so this must be Akane and co again. but it can't be that simple, can it? and why would a Nonary Game forcing people to die help achieve that in any way?
- Zero looks super cool in a ridiculous way, but why the hell would it be of any use for the mastermind to dress up like a barely mobile Silent Hill apparition? surely you have better things to do with your time sir
- what kind of a name for a zero escape character is Carlos?

obviously avoid spoilers going forward, but feel free to ask questions at any time!
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Tag
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Carloooooooos!
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LapisLazuli posted...

Carloooooooos!

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Yessssssss, ZTD is such a good time. Tag!
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You deserve a reward for obeying. When you awake, all three of you will be able to regret the decision they made.

the decision game begins!

went with C team first

assorted thoughts:

- dearie me this is brutal, i hope the bleakness here is at least somewhat earned and not just totally gratuitous. I don't want a Saw to Saw 2 transition here.
- he hasn't even really done anything yet and i can already tell eric is going to be terrible
- Sigma, Phi, Akane and Jumpei are all in this game, where reportedly only three can survive. time paradoxes aside (*ahem*), we know that all four of them do. this suggests several things, the most obvious being that this game is going to be CONFUSING.

- all of these guys (besides Q) seem to know each other pretty well. this will be intriguing.
- i've been playing this game for almost half an hour and the sum total of the "gameplay" has been guessing a coin flip. is this likely to change?
- there are some fascinating character dynamics here, even early on. Akane and Junpei post-999, Sigma and young Junpei from an NPC perspective, Sigma presumably in messiah mode - lots to dive into here
- the willing of Zero Escape to throw their protagonists under the bus morally is pretty fascinating. In 999, Junpei is pretty much a stock likeable hero, but by VLR he's become a lecherous old grump and here he's actively advocating murder by betrayal. I can't work out if it's good writing, but it's certainly brave.

voted to go with the plan and execute team D. seems that I need to do this part for each team before moving forward, which means I might be two hours into the game before I hit a puzzle room. ...there are puzzle rooms in this game, right? maybe not!
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finished the execution choice for the other two teams, decided (probably boringly) to follow the note's instructions

assorted thoughts:

- why is mira interested in eric he's not even a charismatic type of dick
- Q is significantly more clever than either of his teammates
- what's up with mira and diana's eyes? they look more like cyborgs than luna did. don't even start me on phi's absurd orange eyebrows.

i then decided, like possibly everyone else to play this game, that the still image of chainsaw-bearing akane was too much to resist. on with the puzzles!
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C Team - Pantry

Seek a way out!

dearie me, this game is not playing

Akane and Carlos find their way out of the pantry, unknowingly using Junpei's dismembered body as a clue. we then discover D team is dead too, somehow, despite my vote choices. but that doesn't even really matter. a distraught Akane attacks me with a chainsaw. nice to see her show genuine, unambiguous affection for Junpei, though this wasn't quite the ideal manner.

anyway, the game makes me decide who I think killed Junpei, so I can "remove them". Carlos is weird. it doesn't like my answers of Zero, Eric, Sigma ("the dead cannot kill anyone") or Gab ("how could a dog do it?"). I answer both Akane and Carlos in turn, resulting in Carlos killing either Akane or himself in a fairly gory fashion. weirdly, the latter results in an instant game over, while the Akane death path allows me to hypothetically continue on - a curious development considering who should be the most important characters here.

anyway, lots to chew on here:

- why did my unambiguous vote choices lead to what seems like several possible outcomes? is the game treating each vote in a vacuum, and giving me every possibility based on that? that would explain D team being dead in the C path, since I did vote for them. this seems like a mildly baffling plot design choice, but okay.
- assuming it's Zero's plan somehow, why on earth did Junpei get chopped up for following the rules of the game? I was kind of joking about the Saw movies comparison earlier, but this definitely has a hint of the later movie traps, which are deliberately unfair. Sigma and Akane have a lot to answer for, but at least their games broadly followed the rules (bracelet hijinx aside). I'm getting the distinct feeling that Zero isn't on the side of good this time.
- on a lighter note, d'awww Akane. if she wasn't such a total Macchiavellian sociopath, I think her and Junpei could have been very happy together.

that might do for tonight! any suggestions about where to go next, or should I just jump around as I fancy?
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Jump around as you wish. Personally I stuck with B-Team whenever possible.

You will eventually be made to make every decision and go down every path to continue, so you can't really miss anything.

I will say that you should absolutely take real notes in regards to stuff like codes and passwords.
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Bump
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Junpei and Akane are an adorable couple. "You murdered me like 20 times across multiple timelines just to find the one where you don't die!" "But you still wuv me right?" "Yeah."
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Anthropic Principle

What the hell is this shit? This isn't even a fucking game!

team C awakens, 10.5 hours after our initial choice, in the Rec Room. after solving some nicely designed games (and one infuriating block puzzle) and listening to more of Carlos' tragic backstory, we solve the room, only for the "rules" of the decision game to be explained. basically, we each have to roll a die, and if any of them are not 1s, a whole bunch of hidden gatling guns will tear us to pieces.

what

the "99.537% reality" transpires, and we jump behind the bar, but of course that doesn't help us. team C meet a grisly end, and the voiceover calmly tells us that, in this reality, everyone except for Phi has been massacred.

i'd give you some more thoughts, but outside of the recurring "reverie syndrome" motif there's no real sign of any lore/themes appearing yet... i'm just getting pulverized in increasingly brutal ways. this certainly makes for an intriguing setup - after the first two games I'm preconditioned to believe that Zero has complex, partially altruistic motives for doing this, but maybe this simply isn't true here. which makes the coin flip at the beginning all the more baffling. i guess i'll find out!
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First come, first saved: C

Junpei, one year... and you've changed so much

well this one was a doozy

I stick with team C and awaken at 18:10 locked in the decontamination room, where I get an overdue but startling plot dump. Junpei's cold and callous persona, he reveals, was a result of becoming a detective and seeing the worst of humanity over the last year, including infiltrating and destroying Free the Soul's headquarters with Seven. he later threatened his way into D-Com after hearing that Akane would be there. it's pretty difficult to parse his feelings towards Akane - there's clearly anger, but it's hard to tell how much of a personal grudge he holds and how much he has simply become damaged since.

anyway, Zero informs us of the mutually beneficial results of the voting, and gives us a chance to "fix" things - by murdering both other teams with hydrofluoric acid showers (ouch). Junpei is totally all for it, Akane against, but Carlos takes the decision alone.

naturally, I choose not to press it. I find it mildly stunning that the game would allow you to make a decision to murder six people (including Sigma and Phi!), and I genuinely sort of hope I never have to come through this path again and press that button. the atmosphere of the game so far makes that feel like a vain hope indeed though. the segment ends in an open-ended fashion, with us placed back to sleep before discovering the outcome of the decision game.

sheesh.
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on a side note, I've just looked in the global flowchart for the first time. this game is huge.
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Poison

I don't think you saw the future, I think you saw an alternate past!

team C awakens in the infirmary at 18:10, where Zero coldly informs us that we (and another unspecified team) have been injected with poison, and will die unless we find the antidote. it occurs to me at this point that Zero is doing a fairly unbelievable amount of on-the-fly organisation during the course of this nonary game. this has got to be the work of an organisation of some kind.

after a relatively pain-free puzzle room, I find the antidote, and Akane saves the team (and hopefully team D) with some quick thinking. Zero then reappears and informs us that team Q are dead, and Carlos has a morphogenetic vision of Junpei's severed head in the pantry freezer from the previous timeline. it begins...
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Monty Hall

Guess we can't order a bunch of pizza then, huh?

team C awakens locked in the control room at 12:10. after some awkward Akane fangirling over Carlos and cynical Junpei posturing, we set out to escape. music in this room is pretty great, by the way.

after some fun puzzling, the room begins to fill with carbon dioxide, and Zero provides us with a Monty Hall problem to find the life-saving oxygen mask. being the kind of nerd who doesn't know anything about maths but does spend too much time on wikipedia, I got it right, and watched as the locker opened to reveal... one mask. this is the second game in a row where Akane has known the answer but fainted right before telling us. I know that this is entirely within character, but get some new material, game!

Carlos and Junpei sacrifice themselves to save Akane, and the segment ends with the opening of the X door and an emotionally distraught Akane exiting alone to an unknown fate.

GAME OVER

(curious aside: the global flowchart continues from here, but I was diverted to a game over anyway. I wonder how this works?)
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since that's the end of my team C excursions for now, current thoughts:

- my Saw analogy from earlier seems to be gaining ground. maybe all of this death and destruction somehow needs to happen to save the world from Radical-6, but the violence in this game feels needlessly cruel so far. Sigma and Akane's Nonary Games (while cold and somewhat vengeful) were never this sadistic, and it's very hard to ascribe an altruistic motive to Zero here.

- in the VLR timeline, Sigma, Phi and Akane failed to stop Radical-6, but they all (alongside Junpei) clearly survived - in Sigma's case, with two fewer arms and an eye missing. this begs a few questions: why did they fail, and how could that be avoided this time? how could four people survive this brutal and unforgiving decision game setup? how did Sigma not bleed out despite losing both his arms in the middle of a Nonary Game? did Zero survive?

- I've been in this position before, but it's especially hard to imagine any of the main characters being Zero this time. Team Q are largely unknown entities, and there could be a collaborator or two dotted around, but this game feels so straight up villainous it's hard not to suspect Free the Soul and Brother as the masterminds here. I feel like if Brother is the big bad of the series then he must be someone we already know, too, or else that would be super anticlimactic. we've heard rumblings of Seven and Lotus' fate, but what of Santa? Ace? Snake? could any of them be involved?

- what's going on with Junpei's ring? I feel like, of the major recurring characters, he's the least pivotal to the main plot, but the game is clearly trying to tell his story here too. if Radical-6 was stopped, could Junpei and Akane could actually live a normal life together? that's probably too much to ask, Junpei will probably end up heroically sacrificing himself somehow (for the record I doubt Sigma and Phi are getting out of this alive either).

that'll do for now! if anyone has any specific questions, don't hesitate to ask!
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small postscript, having let things settle a little: this game is making me feel things. much more so than in previous games, the bad endings are making me more sad than surprised - there's a long way to go, but i am really invested in the core set of characters in this game. the in-universe stakes surrounding the game are of course higher than ever here, but I find myself drawn far more to the fates and interpersonal relationships of the characters than the overarching mysteries. it's a different approach than the previous games, but this is something that only a sequel can really pull off, and in that regard ZTD has begun fantastically well.
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Except Eric, Eric just sucks
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yeah that's why i said "core characters", i haven't really spent enough time with the others (besides carlos, who's aight) to gain strong feelings on them either way

eric certainly makes an impression though, i'll give him that much
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bump
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more nonsense tomorrow hopefully
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Loving the analysis so far. Very entertaining!

I really liked ZTD when I was playing it but after letting it sit for awhile, I'm not sure how to feel about it. Looking forward to seeing your reactions to everything though! D Team is the best.

I marathoned all 3 for a second playthrough a couple months ago, and ZTD is probably overall last, though it has my favorite moments in it in the series.
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it's Q team time!

Radical-6

well, that title's quite the hook! Q team awaken at 18:10 locked in the bio-lab, where Eric immediately finds his default mode of terrified and useless (I assume he's saving his angsty aggression for later). the idea of a person entirely overwhelmed and rendered histrionic by a Nonary Game is an intriguing character archetype, but so far Eric's shown absolutely no sympathetic traits whatsoever.

in any case, we solve the puzzles of the lab, with Q showing a conspicuously deep understanding of laboratory science, and Zero shows up to regale us with another tragic tale of life being inherently unfair before actively screwing us. we might be infected with the deadly virus Fanatic Bio-R, which Radical-6, kindly provided, will negate. or we might not. so do we inject R-6 or not? Zero bizarrely claims that this is self-fulfilling, and we'll be fine either way, but why the hell would that be in his best interest?

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naturally, I choose not to inject Radical-6. Q reasons that FBR is likely a falsehood, while Radical-6 is definitely real. after a little more conversation, we learn that Q seems to understand the full stakes of this game - that the ultimate humanitarian priority is not so much for everyone to survive, but not allowing anyone infected with Radical-6 to escape. Mira, in the first clearly malevolent act of the game, secretly steals a vial anyway. Zero reappears and - accompanied by some actual visuals this time - informs us that in this timeline C team are dead. Q team then returns to sleep, and an unknown future.

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naturally, I choose to inject Radical-6. FBR is 100% lethal, and Radical-6 isn't, so pragmatically it's a no-brainer. in the chat afterwards, we're treated to a lengthy but worthwhile flashback to Eric's initially bland suburban upbringing that turns dark upon his mother's death. it's his first sign of depth as a character and it's super welcome. naturally, Mira responds to it by being a total fucking sociopath and laughing at him, then proceeding to murder Eric and Q for seemingly no reason whatsoever. uh, okay! is this Radical-6 showing, or is Mira just the most plain sight villain the series has seen yet? even Ace and Dio kept their murders off-screen and mysterious!
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Tagging this for later - I honestly loved ZTD (the whole series, really) and I can't wait for some of the later discussion.
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keeping this alive
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Giggsalot posted...

I genuinely sort of hope I never have to come through this path again and press that button

oops

Also all the new characters are pretty great (especially if you count Diana), better than the returning ones honestyl
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Giggsalot posted...

Radical-6

Fun fact about this one for later (don't read it now): try anagramming Bio Fanatic R
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LordoftheMorons posted...

I'd hold off on anything like this going forward - while this one is actually really minor, we really shouldn't even be putting the temptation to look at spoilers in front of TC.
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it's alright, if I was inclined to spoil myself I'm not short of ways to do so.

update coming soon!
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LapisLazuli posted...

Carloooooooos!

Tag
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First come, first saved: Q

I really, truly love ice cream

Finally, Eric gets relateable.

C team awakens at 18:00 in the decontamination room, and after another sappy Eric flashback about the day he met Mira, we have a quick discussion about what Zero's goal might be. Eric speculates that our survival instinct might kick in more effectively if we're placed in danger, and jokes that it would be wise to send a murderer as part of a Mars mission crew. as he says the word "murderer," the camera pans straight into Mira's icy neon eyes. well then.

Zero then informs us of our current plight, and Eric goes batshit. Mira, who is inescapably sinister even when she's doing the right thing, knocks him out before he can hurt Q, and with a smirk leaves the decision in the child's hands. it's hard to tell if Mira is Zero-evil, Free the Soul-evil, both, or neither, but she certainly seems to have some kind of plan here.

as Q, I naturally decide not to press the button - I'll return to these to make homicidal choices with each team later - and I'm placed to sleep by Zero, where an uncertain future awaits

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side note: for some reason the game seems to have failed to recognise my progress in the Radical-6 sub-chapter, so I'll have to rush through that again sometime. is this a known glitch of some kind, or did my game do something weird?
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Giggs, do not click this spoiler under any cirscumstance.

placed to sleep by Zero LMAO
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Triangle

Who will you kill?

C team awakens at 18:10. Eric wanders off, and in an uncharacteristic act of usefulness, appears to find a "secret" room, purporting to be Zero's study. after a little snooping we find a mural of our nine heroes, as well as a crossbow and a handgun, which are treated with considerably less consternation than similar discoveries were in 999. different times, I guess. we then, utterly ridiculously, acquire ourselves a grenade launcher, which we use to help us solve the puzzle without damaging or setting fire to anything else in the vicinity. right.

we solve the room, only to find a single piece of paper saying "KILL ONE". Zero appears on the monitor, and shows us footage of Junpei's severed head and Carlos' suicide, placing us in time. D Team are also all deceased in this timeline, meaning only one more person has to die for the game to be over. in combination with our ludicrous newfound arsenal, this leads to a Mexican standoff between the three members of team D (good luck using that grenade launcher as a short range weapon, Eric). I am then prompted who to kill.

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I choose whiny, oblivious Eric, of course. Q fires the crossbow into Eric's chest, and he collapses to the ground. Q collapses too, shaken by his actions, and Mira coldly finishes Eric off with a bullet to the head during his last words. Mira then goes into a long soliloquy about her many killings, revealing herself as the heart-stealing serial killer alluded to somewhere earlier as she roots around in Eric's insides, searching for her treasure.

stunned into acquiescence, Q accompanies Mira to the X door and enters the six X-Passes we just learned. accompanied by Gab, our only undamaged survivor, we walk through the door, and the credits roll.

Q-END: 1
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I choose murderous, despicable Mira, of course. Q fires the crossbow with a scream, and Eric dives into the path of the arrow, which hits him right in the heart. Mira, freaking out not because of any emotional human response but because her favourite of Eric's internal organs has been damaged, unloads two bullets into Q and walks away, profoundly irritated by the whole experience. it's hard for the good guys to win in this game.

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I return to the scene to try to enter Q and Akane's name, surely the two other names the game wants, but the game weasels out of this on a technicality - we need to know Q's true name to continue. the game also doesn't allow us to decide to kill Akane, either, so I enter "nobody". this somehow works! Q lowers his weapon slowly, and Eric of all people decides to take the opportunity to blast the small child to oblivion with the highly unrealistic grenade launcher. that bastard might be worse than Mira somehow.

those two escape hand in hand, and the game treats us to a cathartic epilogue where Mira murders Eric three days later. good on her. if it comes down to Mira or Eric, I'm on team psychopath here, no question.
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Giggsalot posted...

- why is mira interested in eric he's not even a charismatic type of dick

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I love Mira
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Pop Off

The only things I trust right now are myself and my big gun

my last adventure with Q team for now begins in the very sci-fi Pod Room at 18:10. or at least, Eric and Q. Mira is conspicuously absent, which feels especially ominous in light of C team's pantry experience. after some very cool room rotation puzzles and the discovery of an exceptionally creepy "Become me" Zero card, we unlock a goddamn shotgun. oh sure, Zero, give the team consisting of a frightened child, a nervous overcompensating wreck and a mass murderer all the weapons. bravo.

Eric, concerningly thrilled with his new ballistic companion, shoots up the final puzzle of the room, unveiling the room's titular pods, and a cold, strangled Mira. after a genuinely disturbing flashback implying that Eric's father killed his brother and forced him to hide the body, Zero sends us footage of Junpei's head and Carlos killing Akane. Eric's eyeballs begin to flutter madly (genuinely maybe the most terrifying thing the game has shown so far) and he begins to strangle Q, accusing him of orchestrating the deaths in league with Carlos.

Q gets away to the X door, but before he can enter the codes, Eric returns and shoots the console (and after I'd written them down, too! what a prick). he demands to know who killed Mira, or he will kill Q too.

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I tell Eric that he did it. it couldn't have been me, right? he doesn't especially like this, though, and shoots Q in a rage. his life quickly seeps from his body, but weirdly, and in stark contrast to most of the other deaths we've seen so far, no blood spills from Q's body at all. meaningless graphical omission, or is this some kind of Luna situation here? I guess we'll see!

Game over

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I tell Eric that I don't know who killed Mira. it's the truth, right? surprisingly, this time Eric puts the gun down, and falls into the couch to lament his loss and the general tragedy of his existence (somewhat reasonably, to be fair). we're at somewhat of a loss as to what to do, when Q notices a damaged area of the floor beside them.

"This is..."

To be continued
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I'd give a quick recap at this point about what I know and who I suspect before I move onto D team (exciting!), but outside of individual character development I'm not sure I really learned all that much about the overall plot from the Q team section.

- Mira's pretty great for what she is. she doesn't seem to be in league with anyone here, she's just been placed in the game to speed up the murder rate, Dio-style. which is fair enough, I guess - she's certainly more fun than he was. in any case, that would seem to suggest that Zero very much knows what he's doing, even if I currently don't. but it's hard to speculate beyond that, really.

- Eric is obviously a very damaged man and, to be honest, that makes him a somewhat more understandable (if not likeable) character. I don't see him as a major player in the plot here though, unless he's genuinely schizophrenic or something. and if he is somehow the big bad here, I'll be mildly depressed.

- Q is seemingly the most plot-pivotal character here. he knows a suspicious amount about the more mythological elements of the series' plotting, and his mysterious background and appearance sets him up to be a person of interest at the very least. the K comparison would be too obvious, probably - but if we are in a situation like 999/ZTD where 3-4 of the participants qualify as Zero accomplices (as unlikely as that currently seems), it's hard not to see Q as a suspect.

happy to field any other questions at this time! I remember I periodically did "Zero rankings" throughout my ZTD playthrough, if anyone would be curious about stuff like that I'd be happy to oblige.
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Like the other "choose a character" scenes, Pop Off has a surprising amount of unique incorrect responses. Yes, this means they recorded a voice line specifically for Eric's reaction to accusing the dog of murder. ZTD good
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And I ran through all 8000 of them trying to figure out what answer that fucking idiot wanted. This is why I hate him. oihhgaposdhg
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DeathChicken posted...

And I ran through all 8000 of them trying to figure out what answer that fucking idiot wanted. This is why I hate him. oihhgaposdhg

Actually, that scene is also unique in that it has a timer when typing your answer, unlike the situations in Suspicion and Triangle (as two examples TC has already gotten through). If you let the timer run out, it automatically continues with the "I don't know" answer.
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oh that's funny, I actually thought at the time that the timer was quite short to type in a full (albeit short) sentence.

super tired tonight so update tomorrow, hopefully!
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a brief foray into the world of Team D tonight! no time to play for long, but hopefully starting out will whet my appetite for future evenings.

Suppression

we awaken at 18:05 trapped in the Healing Room, a strange, Twin Peaks-esque monochrome space. immediately, Phi begins to feel parallel universe dissonance. after some funky puzzles and more than a little luck, we unearth a ridiculously ominous huge button labelled with "do not press this button". Sigma says we have to push it - after all, how else will we get out of this room? Phi pushes back vehemently. interestingly, the game gives me a full minute to decide, while Sigma and Phi argue in the background.

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Diana pushes the button. all we see is white light, as the complex is utterly obliterated by a gargantuan explosion. well then.

(a highly abrupt) GAME OVER

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Diana chooses to not push the button. the door opens, no one dies. who would have thought? we exit the room and Sigma gives an important but honestly fairly dull explanation of the consciousness-shift stuff. this is livened up when a mysterious hooded figure rushes Sigma and guts him with a knife! Diana runs off to find Phi, and the two return to witness Sigma's last moments, where he gets all emotional about the subsequent non-existence of his psychopathic rabbit AI and it's all-but-confirmed that he modelled Luna after Diana. Luna begins to suspect Phi, and runs away in terror, only to eventually find Phi stabbed too. six X-Passes in hand, she goes to exit the open X-Door, when the unknown assailant catches up with her, and makes it 3/3 without ever revealing their face. our assassin calmly walks through the X-Door, scalpel in hand. impressive stuff!

(a slightly more elaborate) GAME OVER

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well, that was something. judging by the flowchart, this all takes place directly after Mira stabs Eric and Q. which apparently answers one question - our assassin is almost certainly Mira - but raises several others. firstly, how did she get into Ward D? secondly, the game suggested Q was still alive! and thirdly, the flowchart implies that this storyline continues from here, even though we witness assassin Mira walk through the X-Door, and with the possible exception of a presumably heavily wounded Q, everyone else is dead. what?

I guess I'll find out soon!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImbN08ep5AY" data-time="
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Giggsalot posted...

Diana pushes the button. all we see is white light, as the complex is utterly obliterated by a gargantuan explosion. well then.

(a highly abrupt) GAME OVER

Best timeline.
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Button ending is the high point of this entire series
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