Board 8 > Scarlet Fixes The Comic Book Movies: Dawn of Just Us

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scarletspeed7
10/06/18 4:36:33 PM
1
I'm the sort of guy that loves a good comic book. The weaving serialized narrative presents a long-burning world-developing character-building creative outlet that is only enhanced by an artist's unique vision for a story. In a lot of ways, comics are the best storyboards for future movies, with the best tales offering shot-by-shot instructions on how to translate an idea to the screen.

And that's why I'm always left scratching my head when I see a bad comic book movie. The answers for why a great character is mishandled on a larger stage can always be found right there on the page.

But more importantly, I think a project like this is important. Too often I see these armchair quarterbacks on Board 8 offering criticism without real passion for the source material. It's extremely easy to play the disaffected cynic who hates everything on the board (Nanis). And beyond that, it's very easy to regurgitate other popular opinions without having the context or knowledge of why that opinion might be the way it is (LMS). I think the end result is that passion is so often drowned out on the internet by mob rule. This list, hopefully, will demonstrate that the best superhero films can be better, and the worst superhero films can still offer something constructive. When you care about a property or when you want to champion the ideal of a genre, you have to be willing to set aside your preconceived notions of how things ought to be.

The world too often wants either fantasy booking or repetition. It's difficult to be a wholehearted fan of a product in an era where opinion articles and Tweets gain so much traction. Segments of the fandom care less about a storytelling experience and more about keeping up appearances. Other segments are hardline traditionalists who actually are the exact same way. Much like modern politics, comic book movies face bizarre liberals and ridiculous conservatives who attempt to change the dialogue about a project into a referendum on the opposing party, and the result is that most discussions about movies end up skin deep and shallow. The truth of storytelling is that the best messages are universal and timeless, not pointed and timely. Divides can be conquered through the power of the written word.

I hope this project (as suggested by all of you) will spur on a discussion about why the mythology of comic books is honestly the best source material in modern culture, and how we as audiences can fight back against pointless arguments with a celebration of creativity when we find it. I love working on these little projects during breaks at work because I develop great conversations with those of you who follow along regularly. So let's see how this (likely divisive) project goes!
---
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
scarletspeed7
10/06/18 4:38:14 PM
2
The List:

30 Days of Night
300 (2007)
Amazing Spider-Man
Amazing Spider-Man 2
Ant-Man
Ant-Man and the Wasp
Avengers
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Avengers: Infinity War
Barb Wire
Batman
Batman (1966)
Batman and Robin
Batman Begins
Batman Forever
Batman Returns
Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
Big Hero 6
Black Panther
Blade
Blade II
Blade: Trinity
Captain America: Civil War
Captain America: The First Avenger
Captain America: Winter Soldier
Catwoman
Constantine
Cowboys and Aliens
Daredevil
Dark Knight
Dark Knight Rises
Deadpool
Deadpool 2
Doctor Strange
Dredd
Elektra
Fantastic Four (2005)
Fantastic Four (2015)
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
From Hell
Ghost Rider
Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
Green Lantern
Guardians of the Galaxy
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
Hellboy
Hellboy II: The Golden Army
Howard the Duck
Hulk
Incredible Hulk
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Iron Man 3
Jonah Hex
Judge Dredd
Justice League
Kick-Ass
Kingsman: The Golden Circle
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Lego Batman
Logan
Man of Steel
Mask
Men in Black
Men in Black 2
Punisher
Punisher: War Zone
Richie Rich
Rocketeer
Scott Pilgrim vs. the World
Spawn
Spider-Man
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man 3
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Spirit
Steel
Suicide Squad
Superman
Superman II
Superman III
Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
Superman Returns
Swamp Thing
Tank Girl
Teen Titans Go! To the Movies
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990)
Thor
Thor: Dark World
Thor: Ragnarok
V for Vendetta
Watchmen
Wolverine
X-Men
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
X-Men: Apocalypse
X-Men: Days of Future Past
X-Men: First Class
X-Men: The Last Stand
X2: X-Men United
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Pirate_Harris
10/06/18 4:40:05 PM
3
Scarlet the hype is real boi
---
Don't believe in yourself; believe in me, because I believe in you!
Snake5555555555
10/06/18 4:40:30 PM
4
Oh yeah, tag!
---
If the suspense doesn't kill you, something else will!
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Eddv
10/06/18 4:41:05 PM
5
scarletspeed7 posted...
Scarlet Fixes The Comic Book Movies: Dawn of Just Us


Obligatory Just Us League image:
https://i.redd.it/66zf55e7z1nz.jpg
---
Board 8's Voice of Reason
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scarletspeed7
10/06/18 4:42:44 PM
6
Eddv posted...
scarletspeed7 posted...
Scarlet Fixes The Comic Book Movies: Dawn of Just Us


Obligatory Just Us League image:
https://i.redd.it/66zf55e7z1nz.jpg

https://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Young-Justice-Vol.-1-1-1998.jpg
---
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Raetsel_Lapin
10/06/18 4:44:13 PM
7
Tag.
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scarletspeed7
10/06/18 5:45:53 PM
8
For this list, I'll be running through all of these movies in chronological order, so we start today with...

Batman (1966)
Nominated by: Karo

Batman is an oddity in the superhero film genre in that it is not a standalone comic book movie but rather a continuation of the extremely popular three-year television series that aired on ABC. The film is fondly regarded - as is the show - by a bygone generation that embraced the campy appeal of the series. Instead of attempting to rework this film from scratch, there are a lot of pieces in place that can't be changed. The casting needs to remain the same, the tone of the show has to remain the same... ultimately, this needs to be an extension of what was already popular in its time.

While I'm not personally a big fan of the show itself, I do enjoy a lot of what made it tick. Performers like Frank Gorshin in particular really embodied the role they played. Meredith and Romero were also essential to the success of the original Batman show, so carrying them over to the movie only made sense. In fact, the idea of highlighting a group of villains working together was exactly what was necessary for this film - the show's greatest strength was playing up the goofy but entertaining guest baddies. And while I can't say the writing was the best in the world, it still held true to the show that came before it.

I think, in order to make this movie become a little more timeless, ABC and FOX would need to bring in a ringer writer and/or director and hand them a larger budget. For the era, someone along the lines of a Norman Lear would probably be a great choice. A better use of camerawork to make this feel less like a multi-cam sitcom would also be appreciated. If Batman is given the vibe of the show with the feel of a true movie, the stakes would feel more raised and the must-see quality of the movie would have some urgency. But the pieces and components are already there. Big names appearing as surprise cameos, for example, are certainly welcome. Even Sammy Davis, Jr.'s brief how-do-you-do is delightful in its own way. What I'm thinking is that Batman would be best served with just a little bit of that 21 Jump Street magic, not in terms of rauchiness, but in terms of unpredictability. If a larger budget had been given, we could have more absurd Bat-devices, for example. Better turns for the villains with sets that feel more akin to each character.

Ultimately, though, I think snappier dialogue with some nods to the fourth wall would be most welcome here. The show always embraced the camp, and the movie is best served by embracing the embrace of the camp. If it was a little more self-aware with more back-and-forth between characters, Batman would certainly be fondly remembered as a best episode of a series on steroids.

So while this isn't a movie you can really remake or even play with too much, you could definitely enhance the quality of the film with a couple million extra bucks and an outside eye.
---
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
scarletspeed7
10/06/18 5:51:50 PM
9
Future write-ups will be much more explicit in how I feel movies could be "fixed", but this was really just an episode of a show, and I think it would be inappropriate to essentially rework everything about said TV show given that the topic is for movies only.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Eddv
10/06/18 6:15:57 PM
10
I think you basically nailed it anyway
---
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Snake5555555555
10/06/18 6:18:51 PM
11
I'd probably give the Joker more to do or cut him out all together, since he could be replaced by a generic henchman and it wouldn't change anything really.
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scarletspeed7
10/06/18 6:21:31 PM
12
Snake5555555555 posted...
I'd probably give the Joker more to do or cut him out all together, since he could be replaced by a generic henchman and it wouldn't change anything really.

I think snappier dialogue and setpieces would probably fulfill your complaint here. Remember that the 60s characters aren't really akin to the comic characters in terms of personality necessarily, so giving Joker a few more memorable jokes and maybe a wacky lair would probably be the best options. But you're right that in the current form, he is Just Another Villain.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Sherry_Tueli
10/06/18 6:25:25 PM
13
Oh nice, hype. I'll have to tag on PC later.
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For Sugawara-sama.
Pirate_Harris
10/06/18 6:34:44 PM
14
Huh neat
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Don't believe in yourself; believe in me, because I believe in you!
PrinceKaro
10/06/18 6:35:29 PM
15
tag
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all going according to the plan of BKSheikah this time...
scarletspeed7
10/06/18 7:00:58 PM
16
Superman (1978)
Nominated by: hylian

Superman gets vastly more right than it gets wrong, and when you look at the reception of the film critically and commercially when it was released, you can see that in its time, it was exactly what it needed to be. I do have some constructive ways to improve the movie, but let's look at what it accomplished first and foremost. Much like Man of Steel attempted to do, Superman came to the character with a biographical lens. Characters, for example, set up in the opening sequences, are only there to build the world and mythos of Superman. Zod has no effect on the rest of the plot, but it reinforces the world of Krypton when Richard Donner chose to include him. As the story moves through time, we are introduced to many notable names from the comic history of the character, so you would be forgiven if this film felt like Forrest Gump, where these famous faces stop by to give audiences in the know a wink and a nod. Did we need Lana Lang? No, but it's nice to create that connection to the source material, something you can pay off later if need be.

I also can't express how much I love John Williams' score. It's still a phenomenal piece of writing. I recently went to a DSO concert where they played the Superman suite, and it is just a moving symphonic tune. Just thought I'd mention that. There's something you really can't improve upon in this movie.

Christopher Reeve, Margot Kidder and Gene Hackman are easily three of the best cast characters in comic book movies. Superman plays less upon the superheroic actions of Clark Kent and more upon the attitudes of the main roles than most superhero movies, and I think that alone allows these three to have more room to play up the iconic personalities of these characters. Reeve especially has become an iconic representation of not only Superman but superheroes in general, an influence upon the genre for years to come. His casting was perfect for both Clark and Superman. Hackman is a little more Hackman than Lex, but he changed the entire character for both films and comics in how he delivered the delightful little quips. And Kidder just nails Lois.

Where I see the potential for improvement is in the telling of the climax of the film. Up until that point, the pacing was quick, presenting a jaunt through the life of Clark Kent as he became the Man of Steel. Lex Luthor's desire for prime real estate comes across a little hollow as motivation for the character's crowning machinations, and I think you could either develop better reasons for what is about to happen and/or offer up a slightly modified plan itself. The idea that nuclear missiles can be used to cause earthquakes on the east coast are fine, except for the fact that the movie itself doesn't demonstrate that Lex's plan worked the way he wanted it too. I think it actually undermines Lex's credibility as a villain here, especially when you consider that the nuclear fallout from the blast would also ruin the land he claims will become prime real estate thanks to the detonation.

To give Lex more motivation, I think we have to go the Smallville route a bit and show earlier on in the movie that Superman's very existence has been a bane to Lex from the beginning. Kryptonite is introduced very suddenly in the film; perhaps it is found by a young Lex at the site of Superman's crash. It causes illness in Lex that Lex begins to blame on Superman after investigation links kryptonite to the Man of Steel. Perhaps the idea of the nuclear weapons are meant to be a test for Superman. I would throw in Lex having a military project of some sort that allows him to create super-weapons, just so his knowledge of the nuclear missiles isn't completely surprising. If it feels like Lex is trying to get revenge for a lifetime of physical misfortune and become rich in the process, I think the final act would play out with more emotional impact, and real cap the film as a classic of its era.
---
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
WickIebee
10/06/18 7:01:35 PM
17
Now from PC. Had you not already posted a ranking and effectively answered my question, first thing I would have asked when I saw this topic (and first thing I wanted to ask) was how you were going to order the movies. Well, reading is my friend and I know that answer already, ahaha~
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https://imgur.com/SXyi7uX
Pirate_Harris
10/06/18 7:08:37 PM
18
So your doing them chronologically? But no ranking?
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Don't believe in yourself; believe in me, because I believe in you!
scarletspeed7
10/06/18 7:10:21 PM
19
I don't think ranking my fixes is that interesting, nor would it make sense for going through a film series out of order and fixing it as an entirety.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Pirate_Harris
10/06/18 7:17:10 PM
20
Ok I understand...

So which write up are you dreading?
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Don't believe in yourself; believe in me, because I believe in you!
scarletspeed7
10/06/18 7:18:29 PM
21
I really have no interest in talking about Barb Wire or Tank Girl.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Anagram
10/06/18 7:21:41 PM
22
Tag
---
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005
Pirate_Harris
10/06/18 8:03:03 PM
23
scarletspeed7 posted...
I really have no interest in talking about Barb Wire or Tank Girl.

Yeah... have you seen those films?
---
Don't believe in yourself; believe in me, because I believe in you!
scarletspeed7
10/06/18 8:15:07 PM
24
...Yes. Unlike LMS, I can't talk about movies if I haven't seen them!
---
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Pirate_Harris
10/06/18 8:29:45 PM
25
Of course of course..

If you've seen barb wire then you must've heard about stripperella
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Don't believe in yourself; believe in me, because I believe in you!
JonThePenguin
10/06/18 8:31:56 PM
26
scarletspeed7
10/07/18 12:04:09 AM
27
Pirate_Harris posted...
Of course of course..

If you've seen barb wire then you must've heard about stripperella

I have never watched it.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
HeroDelTiempo17
10/07/18 12:17:00 AM
28
Tagging this
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Xeybozn
10/07/18 12:18:39 AM
29
Tag
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Congrats to 2017 Guru champ BKSheikah!
FakeAccount3000
10/07/18 12:33:37 AM
30
Yeah, I like it so far but its understandable that two films that largely did what they set out to do for better or worse would need less fixes. :) Will be interesting to see you recreate one of the real train wrecks.
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scarletspeed7
10/07/18 1:41:09 AM
31
I actually have more fixes for the B+ films than the D+ films, weirdly. They are less sweeping and more concise though.
---
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Pirate_Harris
10/07/18 5:11:19 AM
32
scarletspeed7 posted...
Pirate_Harris posted...
Of course of course..

If you've seen barb wire then you must've heard about stripperella

I have never watched it.

It's the inspiration for barb wire
---
Don't believe in yourself; believe in me, because I believe in you!
scarletspeed7
10/07/18 12:38:28 PM
33
Pirate_Harris posted...
scarletspeed7 posted...
Pirate_Harris posted...
Of course of course..

If you've seen barb wire then you must've heard about stripperella

I have never watched it.

It's the inspiration for barb wire

That would be impressive considering it came out 5 years later.
---
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Pirate_Harris
10/07/18 1:08:45 PM
34
scarletspeed7 posted...
Pirate_Harris posted...
scarletspeed7 posted...
Pirate_Harris posted...
Of course of course..

If you've seen barb wire then you must've heard about stripperella

I have never watched it.

It's the inspiration for barb wire

That would be impressive considering it came out 5 years later.

I may have got that on reverse
---
Don't believe in yourself; believe in me, because I believe in you!
davidponte
10/07/18 1:16:39 PM
35
Tag!
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scarletspeed7
10/07/18 4:04:57 PM
36
My next work day is Tuesday, so expect me to resume then.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Pirate_Harris
10/07/18 4:06:48 PM
37
Can you give us a sneak preview?
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scarletspeed7
10/07/18 6:30:54 PM
38
Yes. The next movie to drop is the closest remaining release to Superman chronologically.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
scarletspeed7
10/08/18 1:37:25 PM
39
More tomorrow.
---
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
scarletspeed7
10/09/18 11:51:17 AM
40
Superman II (1980)
Nominated by: Cybat

Superman II is my favorite film in the original Superman series, and that might be why I have more to change in regards to this film than others. Since this entire series was nominated, I'll start with how I would adjust this film in relation to the films around it, and then I'll break down a couple changes I would make regardless of series.

I think what Superman II succeeds at is building off of the sweeping and epic nature of the previous film. With that in mind, there is less of a historical perspective to this film and, for my money, that's what needs to be brought back in full force. I think one aspect of this movie that is overlooked is the role Lex could or should play. To this end, I would have him create Metallo in this movie in order to seek out the Phantom Zone and bring it to Earth to serve Lex's own agenda. In the process of releasing the prisoners from the Phantom Zone, Metallo would be dispatched and Lex would be left begging for his life as Zod, Ursa and Non announced their plans to seek world domination. At this point, they would essentially decimate the LexCorp forces and work their way out of a laboratory where Lex keeps many of his greatest experiments - different colored pieces of kryptonite, something called "the toy room", etc. These glimpses are important simply because they would give us material with which to work in Superman III and IV. And, honestly, that's the only major change I would make for this film as it pertains to the series itself.

But Series-Less-ly: From here, the film would largely play out the same way. This is the Zod show, and we're just living in it. I think I would raise the stakes of Zod to a point where we see flowing Zod banners in various major cities, if only to convey that Superman, after retreating, was forced to spend time licking his wounds and planning a comeback. All of this comes on the heels of Superman declaring his love for Lois; instead of removing his powers, I would simply have the Kryptonians beat Superman back with raw strength. It's three-to-one. So after Superman returns following his first defeating, we get a smarter Clark. He plays the Batman a bit, picking off Ursa and Non one-on-one. Zod, however, has taken Lois hostage in order to bargain his way out of defeat. In the end, though, we have Lex team with Superman (briefly), using his alternate-colored kryptonite to depower Zod and send him back into the Phantom Zone. This kryptonite causes a form of amnesia, and the film would end with Superman kissing Lois with kryptonite lipstick in order to erase her memories of his secret identity. He knows that Lois will never be safe if he continues to expose her to larger-than-life threats, and he has to make this sacrifice.

Ultimately, the film would end with Superman offering Lex the opportunity to work with him in changing the world. Lex would refuse but, after Superman leaves, seemingly at least give the offer some thought. Superman himself would fly off to stop some natural crisis, and the film would cue credits.

I think it's important that the film have some more emotional beats, and the fact that this will always be the one film where it feels like Superman is truly outmatches matters. I want to embrace the emotional stakes as well as the physical stakes to Superman, and I think remove the plot-convenient devices and replacing them with Superman just being smarter than his opponents would really sell it to audiences.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Anagram
10/09/18 11:56:21 AM
41
But would you keep in the weird cellophane Superman symbol that briefly inconveniences Zod?
---
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Started: July 6, 2005
scarletspeed7
10/09/18 12:11:48 PM
42
I mean, how could you not?
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
scarletspeed7
10/09/18 1:43:10 PM
43
Swamp Thing (1982)
Nominated by: Xeybozen

When you consider the year Swamp Thing was released, you kind of have to admit that Wes Craven actually worked wonders with what little source material he had. Months before the heights of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing run would elevate the character into cult-classic status, Craven came along and plucked ol' Alec Holland from the depths of obscurity, giving Swamp Thing a new lease on life and essentially providing DC with the momentum to give the character his longest running and most successful series. It's amazing to think about how a 171-issue series came out of DC's attempt to capitalize on a potential summer blockbuster.

But said blockbuster really doesn't hold up against the comics that spun out from it. The story suffers from lacking some of the nuanced depth Craven normally includes in his better films, and Swamp Thing has always been a character upon which you build layers of symbolism. Playing the character straight makes this just another campy, goofy rubber monster movie. The difference between this and the Creature from the Black Lagoon is minimal. Given that this is 1982, I think that I would try and snag Stanley Kubrick for this project, and let him overhaul the entirety of the script and cast. First and foremost, the casting of Ray Wise as Alec Holland is a bizarre and terrible miscast, and I'd honestly try to pull in Ryan O'Neal. There needs to be more innocence in the character and he has the name recognition value to make this movie more of a marquee project. Plus, his previous experience with Kubrick is a plus.

So with Stanley Kubrick pushing this project in a new direction, I would expect the transformation of Swamp Thing to be much more bizarre and maybe even a little grotesque. And the massive casting of Anton Arcane could now be given more weight, so I would probably try and snag Laurence Olivier. The role would have a little more understated tone to it, and I think such a meaty actor could prevent the concept from devolving into a campy super-villain.

I imagine the plot itself is not too different from the original plot, but small details that build a heavier focus on the symbology of Swamp Thing would maybe turn this into an awards contender if you build this film correctly. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the basic plot of the movie, and hewing close to the original Len Wein story arc is great. But the players involved in the original project placed a ceiling on the potential of this movie, and that's just not working for me. Swamp Thing could come out and rival Superman as a very different kind of comic book movie if you do it right. Artistic, measured and visually stunning.

Be prepared for a lot of these films to be completely overhauled with cast and crew as we go forward.
---
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
ClyTheCool
10/09/18 2:42:00 PM
44
Ambitious series, as usual
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So more power to North Korea for this one. Good show. - MWC
scarletspeed7
10/09/18 4:15:55 PM
45
Hopefully that ends up being a good thing.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
Snake5555555555
10/09/18 4:43:22 PM
46
Kubrick Swamp Thing would be too good for this world.
---
If the suspense doesn't kill you, something else will!
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scarletspeed7
10/10/18 12:34:37 AM
47
Or it could have a 4-minute pan on a tree. You never know.
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"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
WickIebee
10/10/18 3:32:42 AM
48
lol
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I'll just go back to gifs. Not like the winner was gonna click my topic.
https://imgur.com/SXyi7uX
redrocket
10/10/18 3:58:23 AM
49
Tag
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Murphiroth
10/10/18 4:12:06 AM
50
Tag
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