Board 8 > Are people too critical of modern games?

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Mozzezz
11/18/18 11:36:26 PM
#51:


iiicon posted...
SantaRPidgey posted...
no Final Fantasy will ever be good in the same way FFVII is good.

also I'm not so sure about this, because Square seems to have stumbled on what makes FF7 so good, which is basically a bunch of broken people dealing with depression in healthy (Barrett, Zack), unhealthy (Cloud), and destructive (Sephiroth) ways.

will Square never make a FF7 game that reaches the high of FF7? yeah probably not. but they might stumble on that formula again unknowingly. and it would probably play better too.


Those people also were meant to be average people with no real desire to play the role of the hero (or at least before Crisis Core was released) or be world savers, and how they were basically forced into it along with how they evolve and change to face these challenges makes the story a really good one, plus its set in a fairly modern setting. Looking back I think there are aspects of FFVII that are overrated, but recreating the good aspects of the story in a meaningful way I think is an almost impossible challenge.
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Keltiq
11/19/18 12:41:10 AM
#52:


Mozzezz posted...
Those people also were meant to be average people with no real desire to play the role of the hero (or at least before Crisis Core was released) or be world savers

I disagree with this on the basis that the party starts out as a group of eco-terrorists.

I once read an analysis of FF7 that posited that all the characters were "survivors" who had outlived the people and places that gave them their identities. It's definitely more than the shallow story its detractors think it is.
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foolm0r0n
11/19/18 12:53:33 AM
#53:


Yeah the whole "it's just average people" premise is what holds back so many RPG stories, not their secret sauce. Like this random kid in a village becomes a god killer. Fine, but what about the millions of other kids in the world?

FF actually gave really strong reasons for everyone in the party to be there, that's what made it good. It couldn't have been anyone else doing that journey. 7-10 definitely did that, and 15 also did it.
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Unbridled9
11/19/18 2:15:42 AM
#54:


If you're gonna make a topic arguing people should treat games fairly and discuss them on their own terms and then argue that people treating games fairly and discussing them on their own terms are annoying and they aren't even real gamers anyway, I think the place you're looking for is one of the many GamerGate sites, or at least Vlado's Nationalist topic.

Really? Like, that's seriously your answer? Okay. I'm going to assume from here on out that you are referring, in general, to the far left desire to censor media including video games. If I'm wrong I will change my response accordingly.

The issue here is not that they are, or are not, treating games fairly but, rather, that the reasons for what they say and do hold no basis in the game itself. For example, complaining about the masculinity in GoW is only a problem if masculinity is a problem. However such a thing would not be decided by the game but, rather, real life. Real life wherein the decision of the value of masculinity has been made by people whom have decided on these reasons for political and moral standards. In other words; not gamers. Now, arguments CAN be legitimately made one way or the other in regards to the acceptability of such a thing (and I'd really rather not go off on yet another side-line argument) especially within the context of the game itself. For example; it being strange for Kratos to suddenly and randomly stumble across two women on a temple on a titan's back and proceed to bang them or what-not.

However, think back to Hot Coffee. Remember, that mission COULD NOT be accessed normally within the game. You had to go and install a third party mod in order to get it to work. The people outraged about it had no clue what they were talking about and it showed to anyone who had even a basic knowledge of gaming. Likewise, a lot of the people outraged at the lack of 'strong female characters' often do so at the expense of throwing multitudes of strong female characters whom have existed in a multitude of games under the bus. Effectively because said characters didn't agree with their own personal interpretations of what such a thing should be. It becomes clear that these people are casuals at best whose knowledge of the industry doesn't go beyond trailers, mobile games, and the occasional AAA title. As such they hold no place criticizing the industry since they hold little to no actual knowledge of the industry.

If someone actually docked points from a game score simply for carrying a political message that they did not agree with, a political message that also showed they held only a shallow knowledge of the industry, people would be right in being outraged. I've been on the receiving end of such a thing myself when I've made criticisms of games while holding only a basic knowledge. It's part of how I learned to NOT do such a thing. Sending someone a death threat as a response is far overboard, especially just for a bad review, but if someone went '7/10 too much water' or '5/10 No female lead' or something you can bet I'd sure as heck be furious with the critic and want to respond at the least; assuming I didn't take the high-road and just flat-out discount their review and potentially the entire critic.

My dad always said that the right to swing your fist wherever you want ends at another persons nose. I do believe you have a right to like what you like, be critical of what you think you should be critical of, hate what you hate, and so-forth. However, if you don't act responsibly with said rights you won't be a hero worth listening too, you'll be a drunkard flailing fists wildly and meaninglessly that everyone just tries to ignore until they hit someone.
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Tifas_Revenge
11/19/18 3:03:34 AM
#55:


"Don't you guys have phones?" - BlizzCon 2018

I for one do NOT support any games made solely to make money that are rip-offs of other games or use outsourced labor when they should be in-house only, killing thousands of jobs domestically in the USA. Why? Because all it does is add fuel to the fire.

We HAVE to be over-critical about games, because if we aren't, then several people will fall into the "money trap" and regret it later once they've emptied their bank account on online micro-transactions plus subscription fees, as well as carrier data usage fees for mobile games. Once you buy a game that's digital only, there's no way you can get a refund if the game stinks and you hate it, because microtransactions in most games are non-refundable.
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Vlado
11/19/18 7:01:46 AM
#56:


Tifas_Revenge posted...
"Don't you guys have phones?" - BlizzCon 2018

I for one do NOT support any games made solely to make money that are rip-offs of other games or use outsourced labor when they should be in-house only, killing thousands of jobs domestically in the USA. Why? Because all it does is add fuel to the fire.

We HAVE to be over-critical about games, because if we aren't, then several people will fall into the "money trap" and regret it later once they've emptied their bank account on online micro-transactions plus subscription fees, as well as carrier data usage fees for mobile games. Once you buy a game that's digital only, there's no way you can get a refund if the game stinks and you hate it, because microtransactions in most games are non-refundable.

Great post. The "phones" line was a nice representation of Blizzard and practically every other big Western game company's attitude towards gamers. They don't give a fuck about gamers. They want their money and that's all there is to it anymore.
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FinalFantasyVII
11/19/18 7:07:20 AM
#57:


Modern games all copycat each other's perceived profitable qualities.

Also openworld games are stupid except Zelda.
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Safer_777
11/19/18 11:11:43 AM
#58:


@FinalFantasyVII Nice username!
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Mozzezz
11/19/18 1:11:23 PM
#59:


Keltiq posted...
Mozzezz posted...
Those people also were meant to be average people with no real desire to play the role of the hero (or at least before Crisis Core was released) or be world savers

I disagree with this on the basis that the party starts out as a group of eco-terrorists.

I once read an analysis of FF7 that posited that all the characters were "survivors" who had outlived the people and places that gave them their identities. It's definitely more than the shallow story its detractors think it is.


I guess that's sort of true, but before that point, what you learn of their back history, they seemed to be the type of people who just wanted to live their everyday lives, especially Cloud, who seemed to just want to do his job in Soldier and was pushed to be part of the eco-terrorist group (also btw this game was made before "terrorists" were really a thing, so I don't think many players really viewed them as bad guys at all, just people fighting a corrupt system, or maybe Captain Planet planeteers lol. You only really start to get a glimpse of this line of thinking in Crisis Core (which I'm working on but haven't fully completed yet)).
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Mozzezz
11/19/18 1:17:11 PM
#60:


foolm0r0n posted...
Yeah the whole "it's just average people" premise is what holds back so many RPG stories, not their secret sauce. Like this random kid in a village becomes a god killer. Fine, but what about the millions of other kids in the world?

FF actually gave really strong reasons for everyone in the party to be there, that's what made it good. It couldn't have been anyone else doing that journey. 7-10 definitely did that, and 15 also did it.


The thing is usually that random kid has some desire to be a hero, FFVII is more about people who are just plain average and want to live their everyday joe life. Also, the youngest main character in FFVII is Yuffie at 16 I think, and shes a side character, they don't bother with little kids like many annoying modern anime shows and games do, and it comes off as more realistic cause of this.
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GranzonEx
11/19/18 1:19:21 PM
#61:


FinalFantasyVII posted...
Also openworld games are great except Zelda.

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iiicon
11/19/18 1:19:51 PM
#62:


Unbridled9 posted...
The issue here is not that they are, or are not, treating games fairly but, rather, that the reasons for what they say and do hold no basis in the game itself.

This is a pretty extreme opinion! I am specifically listing games that are about certain thematic elements because it should be uncontroversial to say "this game is about X, as noted by the developers themselves and in the text itself. We're going to discuss how it falls short in its ambitions." You, however, are suggesting that's off limits, that subject matters discussed in a game shouldn't be mentioned in a critical evaluation of the game. Look, if you only care about a games' mechanics, that's fine. We're probably not going to find much common ground, but if you don't care about about the history of misogyny in God of War, or how its rigid definition of masculinity limits true reflection and growth, or how it represents fatherhood vs motherhood, and only care that it's fun to throw around the ax and has surprisingly good boss fights, that's fine. You do you. But you do not get to set the limits of debate, and discussing God of War's thematic elements does have a "basis on the game itself."

Unbridled9 posted...
The people outraged about it had no clue what they were talking about and it showed to anyone who had even a basic knowledge of gaming. Likewise, a lot of the people outraged at the lack of 'strong female characters' often do so at the expense of throwing multitudes of strong female characters whom have existed in a multitude of games under the bus. Effectively because said characters didn't agree with their own personal interpretations of what such a thing should be. It becomes clear that these people are casuals at best whose knowledge of the industry doesn't go beyond trailers, mobile games, and the occasional AAA title. As such they hold no place criticizing the industry since they hold little to no actual knowledge of the industry.

if you're gonna get upset about being lumped in with GamerGate you might not want to repeat GamerGate talking points about Anita Sarkeesian verbatim.

Unbridled9 posted...
I'm going to assume from here on out that you are referring, in general, to the far left desire to censor media including video games.

I guess I'm pretty far left? I mean, I'm Canadian, so by default I'm to the left of where the internet typically defines a left/right spectrum, and moreover, I find myself constantly disappointed by how often our social democratic party capitulates on matters that should be central to the party. And I'm pretty far left in regards to free speech, which is to say, I don't think we talk enough about how oppressive forces (poverty, over-policing, limited social movement, etc) are intrinsic attacks and limits on free speech, and talk too much about trivial matters that don't actually exist (video game censorship. video game companies are not currently under threat of reprisal from the state).
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HeroDelTiempo17
11/19/18 2:21:04 PM
#63:


Mozzezz posted...

I guess that's sort of true, but before that point, what you learn of their back history, they seemed to be the type of people who just wanted to live their everyday lives, especially Cloud, who seemed to just want to do his job in Soldier and was pushed to be part of the eco-terrorist group (also btw this game was made before "terrorists" were really a thing, so I don't think many players really viewed them as bad guys at all, just people fighting a corrupt system, or maybe Captain Planet planeteers lol. You only really start to get a glimpse of this line of thinking in Crisis Core (which I'm working on but haven't fully completed yet)).


Cloud is the exact opposite of what you're describing. SOLDIER isn't exactly a "normal job" and IIRC you learn pretty early on that Cloud explicitly tried to join to become a hero. It's just that things didnt go so well and he's the cynical loner merc at the start of the game. The trope of "small town hero" gets subverted initially but then the game goes ahead and fulfills it anyways.

I think Cid is the only party member in 7 that legitimately wanted to just do his job and be left the fuck alone.
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Mozzezz
11/19/18 2:58:08 PM
#64:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
Mozzezz posted...

I guess that's sort of true, but before that point, what you learn of their back history, they seemed to be the type of people who just wanted to live their everyday lives, especially Cloud, who seemed to just want to do his job in Soldier and was pushed to be part of the eco-terrorist group (also btw this game was made before "terrorists" were really a thing, so I don't think many players really viewed them as bad guys at all, just people fighting a corrupt system, or maybe Captain Planet planeteers lol. You only really start to get a glimpse of this line of thinking in Crisis Core (which I'm working on but haven't fully completed yet)).


Cloud is the exact opposite of what you're describing. SOLDIER isn't exactly a "normal job" and IIRC you learn pretty early on that Cloud explicitly tried to join to become a hero. It's just that things didnt go so well and he's the cynical loner merc at the start of the game. The trope of "small town hero" gets subverted initially but then the game goes ahead and fulfills it anyways.

I think Cid is the only party member in 7 that legitimately wanted to just do his job and be left the fuck alone.


I'm checking up on it and it looks like you are right, I guess I either missed that part or forgot (I played the game when it originally released). Still, Cloud wanted to do it in the conventional way, by joining Soldier, he was still someone who sort of just wanted to do his job. And yeah Soldier isn't exactly a normal job, but for games like that it still comes pretty close to normal lol. That's one of the problems I also sort of have with FFVII when I said aspects were overrated, there's too much stuff that is more unrealistic then people gave it credit for at the time. Also FFVII Cid is a really good character.
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Hardcore_Adult
11/19/18 3:14:23 PM
#65:


There's High Standards and then there's Intergalactic Standards.
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lordjers
11/19/18 3:23:42 PM
#66:


It's the other way around. For every nostalgic person, there's like 20 or more people who won't even try a a game more than 5 years older, and what little they see they judge as clunky/too hard/too ugly.

Try looking at reviews for NES games vs. PS4 ones. NES games struggle having scores in the upper 3s and up unless it's something SMB3. PS4 games get those scores way more easily even if they're just ok. You have to be a very very sucky PS4 if you're gonna get the average NES game score.
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pjbasis
11/19/18 3:26:56 PM
#67:


I think the most hilarious part of that, is that the NES is weak HERE overall.

It's a site of people who mostly started with SNES/N64/PS1 that finds anything before that too old to play too! Aside from like 5 NES games.
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KingAshnard
11/19/18 3:30:53 PM
#68:


Games have simply evolved to a point where there's a lot more to be critical of.

I think it's fair.
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Hardcore_Adult
11/19/18 3:33:26 PM
#69:


Truth but it seems like people wouldn't know fun if it kicked them.
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Mozzezz
11/19/18 3:40:20 PM
#70:


Most stuff pre Wii/PS3 feels too old to play at this point, but post that during the Wii U gen I mostly only really cared about the Wii U and it was a mediocre gen, and I care about very little during the Switch gen. It's quite a predicament to be in, and I've contemplated quitting gaming quite a few times in recent years because of it.
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foolm0r0n
11/19/18 10:42:17 PM
#71:


Unbridled9 posted...
In other words; not gamers

jesus christ how much more strict can your definition of gamers get?

Anyone who complains about no playable women isn't a gamer. Anyone who complains about playable women in Battlefield isn't a gamer. Anyone who thinks MGS is political, not a gamer. Anyone who plays casual games, anyone who likes old games, anyone who doesn't think BOTW is the best game ever made, anyone who criticizes any game you like, not a gamer. Who is even left? Children? You don't even count by your own definition.
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foolm0r0n
11/19/18 10:52:07 PM
#72:


Tifas_Revenge posted...
We HAVE to be over-critical about games, because if we aren't, then several people will fall into the "money trap" and regret it later once they've emptied their bank account on online micro-transactions plus subscription fees, as well as carrier data usage fees for mobile games.

How is it that others fall into this trap but you and I can avoid it?
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Unbridled9
11/20/18 10:28:03 AM
#73:


foolm0r0n posted...
Unbridled9 posted...
In other words; not gamers

jesus christ how much more strict can your definition of gamers get?

Anyone who complains about no playable women isn't a gamer. Anyone who complains about playable women in Battlefield isn't a gamer. Anyone who thinks MGS is political, not a gamer. Anyone who plays casual games, anyone who likes old games, anyone who doesn't think BOTW is the best game ever made, anyone who criticizes any game you like, not a gamer. Who is even left? Children? You don't even count by your own definition.


Wow. Way to ignore basically everything I said.

The issue isn't that you can't have political messages or whatever else in games. We see them all the time. After all, how many games have held an anti-religious viewpoint? The issue is that you have people who clearly do NOT understand even the basics of how gaming functions (the kind of people who think every game is Mario) coming in and imposing their own personal values, values that are political in nature or are little more than personal opinions that ignore basic aspects of the industry coming in and thinking that they hold as much sway as someone who has partook of three console wars.

If everyone who played Candy Crush was a gamer on-par with someone who spends 6 hours a day working through no less than three titles at a time than the title is meaningless. Similar to having someone who likes TNG saying that they're as much of a trekkie as a person who sought down an authentic tribble prop and dresses up as Spock. Clearly that can't be the case.

Hence why I don't feel that the criticisms made are accurate or reflective of real gaming culture. Complaining about Kratos's hyper-masculinity is something determined not by the game in the slightest but by real-life values and definitions. Complaining about a lack of female characters ignores massive swaths of the industry that even basic knowledge of gaming can disprove. As such I'd ignore someone who treated such things as valid criticisms of a game.
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Unbridled9
11/20/18 10:28:31 AM
#74:


Look, if you only care about a games' mechanics, that's fine. We're probably not going to find much common ground, but if you don't care about about the history of misogyny in God of War, or how its rigid definition of masculinity limits true reflection and growth, or how it represents fatherhood vs motherhood, and only care that it's fun to throw around the ax and has surprisingly good boss fights, that's fine. You do you. But you do not get to set the limits of debate, and discussing God of War's thematic elements does have a "basis on the game itself."

I'm saying it's wrong to judge a game based on your personal opinions. After all, how would you feel if someone said Mass Effect was a terrible game because it allowed for a lesbian relationship which is against God's word? Or that Dragon Age was ignorant because it DOES present religion (and one with similarities to Christianity) as both positive and true? Even if you would consider such people to be gamers as opposed to opinion mouth-pieces it's clear that their opinions are worth squat in terms of actually determining the value of a game.

if you're gonna get upset about being lumped in with GamerGate you might not want to repeat GamerGate talking points about Anita Sarkeesian verbatim.

Why the heck would I care about GG? I got put on it's side simply for saying that Depression Quest was a terrible game and that critics should focus on reviewing games and not inserting their personal beliefs into the review. I don't give a crap if people make me pro, anti, or neutral on GG. Just that you make good games and don't try to make me play some crap like Gone Home by telling me it's wonderful when it's really just you gushing over it's lesbian message.

@ the whole 'small town hero' thing. It's actually decently rare on the whole. Sure, it exists, but it's clearly something that's far from 'common'. I mean, in Final Fantasy, in 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 (arguably)/10-2, 13, 14, and 15 your character is blatantly not some small-town hillbilly but someone who was actually important or at least a trained fighter beforehand. Sure, in 2, 3, 5 (arguably), and 12 you're basically a normal guy beforehand (no clue about 11), but otherwise... Yea. It's not TOO common on the whole. I'm not including discovering down the line that you're actually a princess or something. In Fire Emblem Lyn, Eliwood, and Hector are all nobles. Eirika and Ephriam are nobility. Ike is the descended of not!Obi-Wan and a trained merc. Micaiah is... important in multiple ways. Robin's clearly not just some random person from the get-go. Corrin's nobility as well. Same with Marth and Alm/Celicia in the remade games. Sure, you get a bunch of BASICALLY random schmucks becoming heroes otherwise; but they're not really the stars of the game. I can easily thumb through my collection to find many instances in which the main character started off special and knew it or was at least trained to fight specifically.
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foolm0r0n
11/20/18 11:39:09 AM
#75:


Unbridled9 posted...
Way to ignore basically everything I said.

I assure you it is exactly the opposite.

Unbridled9 posted...
as someone who has partook of three console wars

Unbridled9 posted...
someone who spends 6 hours a day working through no less than three titles at a time

Especially stuff like this LMAO

Why not SIX console wars, like Icon and I have been through? Not to mention the handheld wars. Why not 5+ titles at a time like the reviewers you hate do? I guarantee we play more and care more about games than you do. Many mobile gamers DESTROY you on time/number of games played simultaneously. You're just a kid trying to feel special by adding so many rules to the simple word "gamer" that YOU YOURSELF lose any meaning.

You think yourself as some Cultural Integrity Soldier in the gaming war, but you forget that you made this whole topic to cry about people liking MM more than BOTW. How about you get your shitty opinions out of here and then you can talk about other people's objectivity? At least go play your 3 games for 6 hours instead of crying online all day.

You really should just read the shit you're posting though. I get why you don't. I really do. But you should.
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Mozzezz
11/20/18 12:11:13 PM
#76:


Just felt like throwing some stuff out there since it was brought up.

I personally don't like playing more then two titles at a time seriously, with a third casually to semi seriously. You just stretch yourself too thin. You forget things and don't get anything done in a reasonable amount of time. This is especially true if you have other interests outside of video games.

I'm also just wondering what you guys are defining as console wars. I've been playing since the late NES generation, so I have been through seven generations including the Switch one if you look at it that way in terms of wars. But if you look at it as, Nintendo vs Sega, Nintendo vs Sony, Nintendo vs Sony vs Xbox, there have only been three wars (I guess four if you look at stuff pre NES, but Atari pretty much just dominated there as far as I know).
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iiicon
11/20/18 12:36:30 PM
#77:


Unbridled9 posted...
The issue is that you have people who clearly do NOT understand even the basics of how gaming functions (the kind of people who think every game is Mario) coming in and imposing their own personal values

can we get a list of these writers, i am genuinely curious what you're pulling from here.

Unbridled9 posted...
Complaining about Kratos's hyper-masculinity is something determined not by the game in the slightest but by real-life values and definitions.

I would really like it if you could stop conflating criticism and complaining! And for you to clearly state why thematic elements a game brings up are off limits when discussing a game! And if it's not too much, for you to understand people aren't criticizing masculinity itself (you might be under the impression that masculinity = men, I dunno), but rather discussing God of War's limited portrayal of masculinity, and the values it assigns certain aspects of performative masculinity. There's some good pieces out there - Dia Lacina wrote two solid articles at Deorbital and Waypoint, and Gita Jackson covered another angle at Kotaku.

Unbridled9 posted...
I'm saying it's wrong to judge a game based on your personal opinions.

That is literally what happens when you internalize media and formulate thoughts.

Unbridled9 posted...
After all, how would you feel if someone said Mass Effect was a terrible game because it allowed for a lesbian relationship which is against God's word?

Well, in this weird hypothetical where I'm somehow reading this article, I'd ignore it and move on because who has time to dedicate to niche bigoted media criticism? Or maybe I'd share a link with a friend because it's a moderately funny stance?

Unbridled9 posted...
I got put on it's side simply for saying that Depression Quest was a terrible game and that critics should focus on reviewing games and not inserting their personal beliefs into the review. I don't give a crap if people make me pro, anti, or neutral on GG. Just that you make good games and don't try to make me play some crap like Gone Home by telling me it's wonderful when it's really just you gushing over it's lesbian message.

"Are people too critical of modern games?"
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foolm0r0n
11/20/18 12:40:01 PM
#78:


Mozzezz posted...
other interests outside of video games

sorry this topic is for gamers
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CasanovaZelos
11/20/18 12:49:16 PM
#79:


Unbridled9 posted...
I'm saying it's wrong to judge a game based on your personal opinions.


...what?
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wg64Z
11/20/18 12:54:53 PM
#80:


Modern Gaming things that are great:

Graphics
Music/Sound
Online
Open Dialogue with Developers
DLC (Not launch day DLC)
Balance Patches

Modern Gaming things that are awful:

Day 1 patches.
Massive Loading/Install times
Open/Closed Beta/Alpha/Omega runs, usually tied to pre-ordering
Pre-Order bonuses
Paid cosmetic DLC
On Disc DLC/Launch day DLC
Lootboxes/Card Packs
Pay to Skip gameplay/Win
Absence of Completion Bonuses
Ability to Patch (Forces Devs to push out a game that's not ready since they have this crutch)
Retailer specific purchase bonuses
Complete mistreatment of AAA Developers (And even some Indie)
Digital games being removed without notice
Advertisements (Looking at you Xbox One dashboard)
Games as a Service
Couch Co-op Sign-in F***ery. You know what I'm talking about.
Just Monetization as a whole, really.

I'll think of more.
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Mozzezz
11/20/18 12:58:52 PM
#81:


foolm0r0n posted...
Mozzezz posted...
other interests outside of video games

sorry this topic is for gamers


lol, touche. But still, even though I am not super hardcore, I'm not really a casual either, I guess I'm a moderate gamer. Unless you count stuff like keeping up with gaming news and reading message boards. I guess hardcore and casuals are both annoying to me, neither has the right balance.
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Unbridled9
11/20/18 6:58:36 PM
#82:


foolm0r0n posted...
You really should just read the shit you're posting though. I get why you don't. I really do. But you should.


You know... Considering you just failed basic grammar, I'm going to stop talking to you.

can we get a list of these writers, i am genuinely curious what you're pulling from here.

I seriously need to pull up things like the Hot Coffee controversy or the moral outrage stuff? I mean, that's the whole point of the statement; that the people getting outraged were people who knew nothing about games.

I'll think of more.

In favor:

Improved hardware, software, and design tools.
Digital Downloads for all consoles.
Portable titles on par with console titles at least in-part.
Easy modding/mod-sharing
Cheat Codes
Sprite Graphic

Against
Lack of cheat codes
Ballooning budgets
'Always Online' games.
Shrieking tweens screaming racial/homosexual slurs sixty times a second over voice chat.

I would really like it if you could stop conflating criticism and complaining! And for you to clearly state why thematic elements a game brings up are off limits when discussing a game! And if it's not too much, for you to understand people aren't criticizing masculinity itself (you might be under the impression that masculinity = men, I dunno), but rather discussing God of War's limited portrayal of masculinity, and the values it assigns certain aspects of performative masculinity. There's some good pieces out there - Dia Lacina wrote two solid articles at Deorbital and Waypoint, and Gita Jackson covered another angle at Kotaku.

Would you rather GoW take six minutes aside to discuss the various merits of every different type of masculinity? God, it feels so weird defending GoW considering I hate it for it's hyper-masculinity.

Well, in this weird hypothetical where I'm somehow reading this article, I'd ignore it and move on because who has time to dedicate to niche bigoted media criticism? Or maybe I'd share a link with a friend because it's a moderately funny stance?

But you can't really say that it's okay for you to discount someone imposing their personal opinion on a game when it disagrees with you and then turn around and say that it's okay for someone to impose a personal opinion on a game when it does agree with you. I notice you ignored my follow-up comment about Dragon Age (which I specifically chose because it was made by the same dev at the same time). Though I'd also like to point out that you also just said it's okay to ignore certain people in the medium and their criticisms/problems.

"Are people too critical of modern games?"

Depression Quest is nothing but a CYOS game that's a personal retelling of someone's own issues with depression. As someone who has struggled with suicidal depression I found it lacking in all regards. As a game it's not even worthy of being called a 'text adventure' and the choices are blatant and obvious. In regards to depression it is actually a bit insulting since it seems to play it off as something that can be handled simply through obvious solutions. Compare it to 'Today I Die' and it's pretty clear which is better as a game and for presenting, and dealing with, depression.

Gone Home is just a basic walking simulator. There's no challenge, conflict, real puzzle, or even antagonist really. It's just walking and hearing the story of the girls lesbian sister. If lesbianism wasn't such a major thing ATM it would have garnered no attention what-so-ever.
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foolm0r0n
11/20/18 7:36:23 PM
#83:


Unbridled9 posted...
You know... Considering you just failed basic grammar, I'm going to stop talking to you.

Uhh what's wrong with my grammar there? I thought I made a your/you're mistake, but no it's all correct.

Maybe you're misunderstanding what I'm saying: I totally understand why you don't read the shit that you post. If I cared about people's shitty gaming opinions like you do, it would make me want to gouge out my eyes (and my ears, so screen readers wouldn't work either).
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