Board 8 > Anagram Plays Persona 4 (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

NFUN posted...

I like how I'm offered the choice of who to go with during the investigation, then the game forces me to go with Yukiko anyway.

The game knows what's best for you even if you don't

NFUN posted...

I was going to say that this is uncomfortable to watch in 2019

I mean it was uncomfortable to watch in 2008 too

albeit maybe for different reasons
---

Derp, posted that in the wrong topic.

Anyway, didnt realize Leon was pro-Yukiko. Gotta say, Chie is beating Yukiko so far in personality if not in looks.
---

Team Yukiko represent
---

What's the difference between reading a book thoroughly and glancing?
---

Glancing means you finish it faster, thoroughly means you finish it slower, but you get more total stat boosts per book.
---

Anagram posted...

What's the difference between reading a book thoroughly and glancing?

I'm doing this off memory and on no sleep, so I can't say this for sure, but IIRC reading in P4 works something like this: Each book takes 4 "sessions." Reading thoroughly counts for 1 session, glancing is 2 (Think speed reading from Persona 5.)

So glancing will finish the book faster, but since you're reading it in 2 actions, that's only 2 times where you'll get the stats for it. If you read thoroughly, that's 4 actions. The bonus is the same either way, it's just how many times you can get it.

It's a bigger deal in Golden since ~trophies~ and there's a trophy for reading all books. You do get an accessory for reading all books but it's nothing that special and not worth the hassle of time management it adds.

now watch as in my lack of sleep and double-checking that i've completely crossed my wires and messed up on my info here
---

Ah thank you, but if you can just leave the thoroughly read book at 2 uses, what benefit is there in glancing?
---

Anagram posted...

Ah thank you, but if you can just leave the thoroughly read book at 2 uses, what benefit is there in glancing?

Outside the accessory for all books I... don't think there is one?

...There might be an additional boost for reading all books in what the game considers a "series" but I forget, and even if there is I think it'd be far outweighed by reading slow anyway.

I think later on there are some books related to part time jobs that increase the pay you get from them so finishing them faster might be a benefit. But at this point I'm wondering if my mind has strayed into Golden territory.
---

Anagram posted...

Ah thank you, but if you can just leave the thoroughly read book at 2 uses, what benefit is there in glancing?

I may be misunderstanding the question, but I don't think you can do that. You'd have to then either glance at the book once or read thoroughly twice more to read to finish so that you can read another book in original P4 (pretty sure you can't read another until the current book you're reading is finished).

Edit: Also, I don't remember when they take place other than one of them is sometime in May with Kou, but I think there's at least one or two events with missable books in original P4 (my memory is pretty shaky on this though) if you care.

I don't even remember reading books in p4...
---

...Oh yeah, I think that's right. You can't switch books in P4. Once you start one you have to finish it before you pick a new one.

...so that's a benefit to glancing >_>
---

Thanks, good to have this info for later.
---

No more until Monday, sadly.
---

Does resist fire on a fire-weak persona nullify the fire weakness? I remember fire immunity does.
---

Anagram posted...

Does resist fire on a fire-weak persona nullify the fire weakness? I remember fire immunity does.

I believe the Persona Skill Resist [Element] overrides the weakness. Accessories can't (unlike Persona 3.) Not 100% sure though.

Null/Repel/Absorb all override weaknesses for sure. Resist is the one I'm iffy on.
---

- The reward for scoring in the top ten was more points with my school friends? Lame.
- Obviously-a-Girl tells Greg that Kanji's actions were "forced and unnatural" while she was with him. Apparently, him being called an "odd person" revealed his complex. Is... is this supposed to be translated as "queer person," like "strange" but also gay, but they chickened out at the last second and changed it to "odd?"
- Apparently the information that Kanji has "a complex" is enough for Teddie to sniff out a new location: a bathhouse. When we reach it, we start hearing some stereotypical gay voices from a door, and Yosuke suddenly doesn't want to go. I mean... I don't consider myself a social justice type, but this is just really uncomfortable.
- Aren't shadows based on human monster ideas? Is "evil cop" enough of a monster to qualify? Because that's actually very clever.
- On floor 3, we find Kanji surrounded by an evil blue aura. He has yellow eyes and speaks all fey, and to their credit, the heroes catch on more quickly this time.
- Again, I love the title screen that appears above Kanji for no reason, it's so good. This time there's even canned audience laughter coming from nowhere, this is so perfect. Apparently that's supposed to be everyone watching the Midnight Channel, but uh... I don't know, aren't most of the watchers in the high school? I would think our little band of heroes would be quickly recognized if that was the case.
- Daring Gigases almost give me a game over several times, although one of those times was my own fault for accidentally selecting escape.
- Apparently I just get 8 persona slots at 20. I remember there being a little more fanfare in 3 and 5.
- I reach floor 7, the door further in implies there'll be a boss, I use a goroh-M to return to the entrance to save because I don't want to redo the last eighty minutes.
---

Anagram posted...

Apparently, him being called an "odd person" revealed his complex. Is... is this supposed to be translated as "queer person," like "strange" but also gay, but they chickened out at the last second and changed it to "odd?"

No, at least I don't think so, Obviously-a-Girl meant all that literally. How Kanji took it however...
---

There's so much to unpack with Kanji's story arc in Persona 4. There's how the game handles it, there's how the game handles it in context of 2008 instead of 2018, there's the context of how homosexuality is treated in Japan as opposed to the US, and there's the context of how the translaters interpreted the original text.
---

Yosuke is very homophobic, but since this is Japan, no one cares.
---

- Went back to Yukiko's Castle (without ever leaving) to do some side quests.
- I go to fuse some personas, and Igor is gone! I guess Margaret and I chat off-screen, and I get a new social link out of it.
- "Entangle me within your strand of fate as well" - this is the most abstract flirting I've ever seen in my life.
- We get to the boss on floor 7 (I go back in, never left the TV world) and there's a Daring Gigas boss (buff mustache guy in a speedo) in there with Shadow Kanji. I get it, game. He's gay and doesn't want to admit it. Even ignoring all of the homophobia stuff, this is a one-second joke you've stretched into an hours-long joke. Anyway, of note: he one-shots my characters even after being debuffed, so I just stopped healing.
- The heroes reach the top of the bathhouse and find Kanji confronting Shadow Kanji. Shadow Kanji complains that girls are gross and think he's a weirdo, and to their credit, he's dressed in a diaper and stands like Waluigi. You know, I think I just realized why this joke doesn't work for me: Kanji might be gay, but he wouldn't be like flamboyently gay. It also doesn't quite work because Shadow Kanji doesn't quite say "I like dudes," he just heavily implies it, whereas Shadow Yukiko was talking about just getting railed.
- Anyway, Shadow Kanji turns into a big bodybuilder armed with male symbols. I don't even bother fighting him, I'm at sub-30 SP for everyone, so I just shut it off for now.
- I'm level 22 right now, and the normal enemies at the top of the bathhouse are rocking my world. Am I horribly underleveled? Because I don't run that often.
---

Your not underleveled at all. That's about the normal-ish level to fight Shadow Kanji. You have a couple options if you want to get that done in 1 day (To have more days to do Persona 4 things)

There is a priestess persona called Sarasvati at level 17 who learns invigorate 2 at level 19 which restores 5SP a turn.
You can do laps doing the first couple floors of bathhouse then do the entire castle looking for SP regen items. if you have an encounter that wont die to just autoattacks then run from it. Eventually you'll get enough SP from Castle treasure chest items to beat him.
Or just power level more and brute force it but that might take quite a bit of time more so than the other two options.
---

Anagram posted...

The reward for scoring in the top ten was more points with my school friends? Lame.

Not sure if it's too late, but talking to Doujima will also give you a reward for doing well on exams.

SythaWarrior posted...

Your not underleveled at all. That's about the normal-ish level to fight Shadow Kanji. You have a couple options if you want to get that done in 1 day (To have more days to do Persona 4 things)

There is a priestess persona called Sarasvati at level 17 who learns invigorate 2 at level 19 which restores 5SP a turn.
You can do laps doing the first couple floors of bathhouse then do the entire castle looking for SP regen items. if you have an encounter that wont die to just autoattacks then run from it. Eventually you'll get enough SP from Castle treasure chest items to beat him.
Or just power level more and brute force it but that might take quite a bit of time more so than the other two options.

Thanks.

theawesomestevr posted...

Anagram posted...

The reward for scoring in the top ten was more points with my school friends? Lame.

Not sure if it's too late, but talking to Doujima will also give you a reward for doing well on exams.

I'll see if that works, thanks.
---

Tried to fight the Yukiko's Castle boss again, died in one round to a rampage when I was at nearly full health. Welp.
---

So Shadow Kanji one-shot Greg with an AoE attack from near full health.

This will be fun.
---

For what it's worth, the first two dungeons are the hardest and longest, for whatever the reason. The game gets pretty manageable after this.
---

LeonhartFour posted...

For what it's worth, the first two dungeons are the hardest and longest, for whatever the reason. The game gets pretty manageable after this.

I didn't really mind the length, though the second dungeon did cost me all but three of my SP sodas.

- Defeated the boss at the top of Yukiko's Castle. I did really well, but Yukiko fell unconscious one turn before I beat him, so I guess she doesn't get that tasty experience. I think I just got lucky, though, he only used rampage once.
- Defeated Shadow Kanji by having Yosuke constantly unbuff him, which forced Nice Guy into constantly wasting turns rebuffing him, while everyone else very slowly burned him down. After he was dead, Shadow Kanji was less dangerous, though he still nearly wiped me twice, so I guess that tells you how skilled I actually am at these games.
- I feel like I should be fair and TRY to ignore the whole homophobia element here and just analyze the boss' design on its own, and actually it is appropriate. Giant buff guy surrounded by roses, I mean, you could do way worse.
- I just realized Chie's defensive stance is standing on one foot. You're lucky that shadow realm stuff justifies that kind of thing, Chie! In basically any other RPG I could make fun of that.
- Afterwards, Kanji still rejects his shadow because "there are too many witnesses." Kanji then claims that "it ain't a matter of guys or chicks, I'm just scared ****less of being rejected." I find that incredibly difficult to believe, Kanji, but it seems to satisfy his shadow. Can I just say, by the way, that having played 3 and 5, the big trauma other characters had to accept is like "my mom was killed and I could nothing" or "I was framed for assault and had my life destroyed" or "I hate how my life was planned out before I was born" and this game apparently equates being gay with that?
- I will say this, though: I really like the idea of your inner psyche taking the form of a doppelganger who openly talks about your hidden feelings inside of a warped location that relates to your repressed emotions. That's absolute genius, it's so much better than Tartarus in P3. I can obviously see how P5 refined that.
- I like how Dojima is clever enough to tell that I'm doing something I shouldn't be, but doesn't know what, and so just tells me to be careful... Yet can't tell that his partner is obviously evil.
- Dojima gives me 20000 yen for doing well on my test. Well, thanks for the 181.72 dollars, I guess!
- Heeyyyyyy, it's the guy from P3, the evil salesman, now hawking his wares on TV.
- I like how, by chance, I did Yosuke's rank 9 social link shortly after rescuing Kanji. In the space of a few days, Yosuke goes from horrified at the idea of being attractive to a gay to saying "you're special to me" to Greg. Way to go, Yosuke, I'm glad you could get over that flaw.
- Yosuke's social link: beated. I like how this resolves with a completely pointless fistfight, that might be the most realistic portrayal of a teenage boy friendship in any medium. It is a bit weird that Yosuke tells Saki that he's going to go on living when he knows she didn't even like him. Yosuke's persona turns into Susano-o, one of the like five Shinto gods I remember. He's the one who murders another goddess for disgusting him, right?
---

Anagram posted...

Can I just say, by the way, that having played 3 and 5, the big trauma other characters had to accept is like "my mom was killed and I could nothing" or "I was framed for assault and had my life destroyed" or "I hate how my life was planned out before I was born" and this game apparently equates being gay with that?

P4's central theme is certainly less dramatic than 3 or 5's, but I also think it makes for more relatable characters, so that's a tradeoff.
---

Anagram posted...

I like how, by chance, I did Yosuke's rank 9 social link shortly after rescuing Kanji. In the space of a few days, Yosuke goes from horrified at the idea of being attractive to a gay to saying "you're special to me" to Greg. Way to go, Yosuke, I'm glad you could get over that flaw.

The main character is special to Yosuke. But not in a gay way, you understand.
---

You have to keep in mind these are 14-16 year olds in 2008 or whenever. I dunno about you guys, but when I was a high schooler in the 2000's, Yosuke's form of misinformed homophobia was still pretty rampant everywhere. I wouldn't say it makes me like him more, but it definitely grounds the cast more in reality. How often would you come across one teenager who's perfectly accepting of everyone around them back in 2008, let alone a huge group of them?
---

MrSmartGuy posted...

You have to keep in mind these are 14-16 year olds in 2008 or whenever. I dunno about you guys, but when I was a high schooler in the 2000's, Yosuke's form of misinformed homophobia was still pretty rampant everywhere. I wouldn't say it makes me like him more, but it definitely grounds the cast more in reality. How often would you come across one teenager who's perfectly accepting of everyone around them back in 2008, let alone a huge group of them?

Im pretty sure Yosuke is 16, so hes on the older end of that, but I accept that. Its still fun to rag on him for it.
---

Anagram posted...

- Defeated the boss at the top of Yukiko's Castle. I did really well, but Yukiko fell unconscious one turn before I beat him, so I guess she doesn't get that tasty experience. I think I just got lucky, though, he only used rampage once.

i'm telling you because of his bugged rampage that guy is almost comically op. The other bonus boss shadows shouldn't have that issue.

Anagram posted...

- I like how, by chance, I did Yosuke's rank 9 social link shortly after rescuing Kanji. In the space of a few days, Yosuke goes from horrified at the idea of being attractive to a gay to saying "you're special to me" to Greg. Way to go, Yosuke, I'm glad you could get over that flaw.

IIRC, dataminers found deleted dialogue that suggested there was originally a romance route for Yosuke.
---

Anagram posted...

Can I just say, by the way, that having played 3 and 5, the big trauma other characters had to accept is like "my mom was killed and I could nothing" or "I was framed for assault and had my life destroyed" or "I hate how my life was planned out before I was born" and this game apparently equates being gay with that?

Well, in P4, it's more along the lines of "accepting the parts of yourself that you don't want others to see."

Which is part of what makes the Investigation Team such a great cast. They've all seen each other at their lowest points and they accept each other anyway.
---

xp1337 posted...

IIRC, dataminers found deleted dialogue that suggested there was originally a romance route for Yosuke.

That actually does surprise me.

LeonhartFour posted...

Well, in P4, it's more along the lines of "accepting the parts of yourself that you don't want others to see."

Which is part of what makes the Investigation Team such a great cast. They've all seen each other at their lowest points and they accept each other anyway.

I'm waiting to do a cast analysis until I have everyone.
---

- I like how Nanako just randomly stumbles on Chie and me in the park, like six year-olds just wander around town by themselves.
- I JUST got to level 2 expression and already Nanako is telling me to improve before talking to her again, dammit. She's one of two people I can talk to at night!
- Greg watches the Midnight Channel and sees that no one is on it because we rescued Kanji. Meanwhile, in the shopping district, the mysterious silhouette who's definitely not Adachi complains "Again..."
- Later, Kanji shows up and thanks us. We learn that the person who attacked Kanji came through a TV. After that, he joins the team. I feel like this is much later to have your fifth member join than P3 and P5. Kanji then reveals that he stole a list from a kid at school of the kidnap victims. Everyone realizes the killer is targeting people who have been on TV in the news the day before. Rarely do you get a video game where bullying saves the day, but here we are.
- Yosuke laments not being smarter. Don't worry, Yosuke. The only other Persona party members smarter than you are Makoto and Futaba, and Futaba does it by having zero social skills. I'll admit, I do like Kanji getting sunglasses, that's a clever way to add some visual diversity.
- When I realized Kanji's persona's element is electricity, I typed up a whole thing about how P3's and P5's protagonists' elements weren't doubled up on by other party members. Then I was smart enough to go back and check and discovered that not only was P3's doubled up on, it was tripled up on by Junpei and Koromaru. Though in my defense, I used Koromaru like twice the entire game.
- Went into the bathhouse to do some side quests, got an upright Death card, got teleported back to the entrance. And that's the UPRIGHT one. Stopped after that for now.
---

Anagram posted...

- I JUST got to level 2 expression and already Nanako is telling me to improve before talking to her again, dammit.

Nanako: "you ain't ****, big bro"

Anagram posted...

After that, he joins the team. I feel like this is much later to have your fifth member join than P3 and P5.

Actually, it's earlier than P3 I think. IIRC, Mitsuru (well technically 6th depending on how you count Fuuka) is the 5th to join and she doesn't join until after Fuuka does which is mid June/the second Full Moon Operation. So it's later by like a week. Later than P5 though, yeah, think you can get Yusuke in Mid May if you do the Palace ASAP. If you wait it's actually probably pretty close.
---

Oh right, I know this trips a few people up so I'll make this a separate post rather than edit it in and risk you missing it.

Kanji's link doesn't start automatically. You need to talk to an NPC in the school who mentions bullying to set the flag that starts it. I think the girl is on 2F. Kanji should be on 1F in the not-classroom building.
---

xp1337 posted...

Oh right, I know this trips a few people up so I'll make this a separate post rather than edit it in and risk you missing it.

Kanji's link doesn't start automatically. You need to talk to an NPC in the school who mentions bullying to set the flag that starts it. I think the girl is on 2F. Kanji should be on 1F in the not-classroom building.

Oho, thank you. I noticed him hanging around by himself, but I figured it would start on its own.
---

Anagram posted...

We learn that the person who attacked Kanji came through a TV.

Ew.
---

Yeah, the Kanji S. Link is tricky. I think I went months without starting it the first time I played because I didn't know how to kick start it.
---

- I'd never tried to use the fox's services before. 30650 yen to heal, huh? No thank you.
- I should say that I love how Kanji uses a folding chair as his weapon.
- Got all the side quest items and reached the last floor of the bathhouse again. Took longer than I expected.
- Tried to do the bonus boss of the bathhouse. I feel like I could beat him, but it would require him to miss a few times, and my +dodge chance accessories don't seem to be working. For now, I give up.
- An old woman's advice on how to woo girls: "Don't ruffle her feathers. You have to keep telling her exactly what it is she wants to hear. That's a surefire way to win her heart!"
- "That's not Yukiko-san... She was better gloomy." Sounds like someone has a fetish for goth girls. I don't blame him.
- "Ms. Sofue was saying something about being happy she could recharge her rod."
- Nanako and Dojiro both tell me to come back with higher expression, they're ridiculous.
- At a campout, the girls cook for us poorly, and Yosuke lays into them. I think it's supposed to be funny, but he's way too cruel for that.
- I bet you thought I'd complain about how Yosuke continues to be scared of them gays, or how Kanji feels he must prove himself not gay by barging into a girl's tent, or how every joke about the fat girl is that she's fat, or how Yosuke tricks the girls into going swimming with him. Nope. Instead I'm going to complain about how tall these tents are. I was in the boy scouts for thirteen years, dammit. I've been on dozens or hundreds of campouts, there is no tent this spacious.
- I only just realized that everyone has a different posture when just standing around. Chie puts her hands on her waist, Yukiko folds her hands behind her waist, Yosuke folds his arms, Kanji just lets his arms fall to his sides, and Greg puts one on his waist and lets the other fall. Nice little details.
- I refuse to believe that Kanji understands or could pronounce the words 'filial piety.'
- "I'm gonna renovate your ass."
- We have another teenager on the TV, this one a famous idol who's coming to Inaba. This girl has her own portrait and she's on the cover art of the game, so she probably won't get kidnapped, thrown into the TV world, be forced to face her inner emotions, and join the party.
- To their credit, the heroes discuss how she might be the next target, and Yosuke even logics out how the killer selects targets based on whether or not she's the next target.
---

The Fox gets significantly cheaper the higher its S. Link is. Highly recommended that you focus on ranking it up.
---

Anagram posted...

- I'd never tried to use the fox's services before. 30650 yen to heal, huh? No thank you.

Yeah, it's extremely cost prohibitive at low levels. It gets cheaper as you level up the S. Link though.

also you successfully blended Dojima and Sojiro there
---

LeonhartFour posted...

also you successfully blended Dojima and Sojiro there

I regret nothing.
---

KamikazePotato posted...

The Fox gets significantly cheaper the higher its S. Link is. Highly recommended that you focus on ranking it up.

Eh, I'm not sure it's all that worth ranking up outside of days where there's not much else to do but turn in the completed quest. It can be a nice a convenience, but I personally wouldn't prioritize it over everything else.

It's still fairly expensive to use his services, and there are other, more efficient ways to regain SP. Though it should be noted that the fox's cost also depends on how much sp you're currently missing, so if you're only missing some SP, it may be situationally worth it to use his services if you have a decent amount of money on hand and depending on where you are in the current dungeon.

Also, you can just remove party members from the entrance if there's a specific member you want to regain SP without incurring the full cost for the whole party.

Maxing out the Fox has another benefit. It lets you use the Shrine to wish for a better relationship to whoever you want. Which on raining days when Sun isn't open is really really strong.
---

- Oh my godddddd it's Rise on the Midnight Channel, who could have predicted thisssss
- I actually was shocked to see her, but only because I thought there'd be more tiptoeing around and teasing the audience, I didn't expect it to just immediately be the next plot point.
- I like how Greg thinks "she looks somewhat like Rise," like anyone else has that hairstyle.
- We meet Adachi outside of the tofu shop where Rise is staying. He's not conspicuous at all.
- We meet Rise, who's very tired and normal outside of her idol persona.
- She denies being on the Midnight Channel based on the specific swimsuit being worn. I like how the Midnight Channel is so blurry that Greg can barely make it out half the time, but Rise can identify swimsuits and cup-sizes.
- Rise talks to Dojima and Adachi, and mentions "three guys wearing school uniforms," even though one of us wasn't in a uniform. Dojima begins to suspect that we know something, and Adachi clearly isn't evil.
- Rise shows up on the Midnight Channel again. The next day, Yosuke rules out that all of the victims are connected to Ms. Yamano. You know, I just remembered that the husband and wife in the affair never got closure. I bet they'll show up again later somehow.
- They speculate that the Midnight Channel shows might be an announcement, but to whoooooooom? Yukiko puts together that we're seeing the culprit's intentions.
- Isn't Kanji supposed to be 14 or 15? I'm fine with him being huge for his age, that's funny, but there is no 14 or 15 year-old with a Vegeta hairline.
- Everyone decides to do another stakeout. As they buy snacks, Adachi shows up, so we all go together. There actually is a weird stalker, and Adachi arrests him as a suspect for the murders. I don't know, though. Maybe it's the fact that I can't imagine this kind of story having a tubby murderer, the guy's voice being ridiculous, or the fact that he doesn't even have a portrait, but somehow I think this would fool zero people. I mean, come on, at least give this guy a portrait, at least pretend he might be the real murderer.
- Everyone goes to talk to Rise, but she's gone.
---

Anagram posted...

I like how the Midnight Channel is so blurry that Greg can barely make it out half the time, but Rise can identify swimsuits and cup-sizes.

I think they mention this at one point (it's not really a spoiler or anything), but the Midnight Channel appears clearer to some people than others. It can also appear clearer or blurrier from day to day.
---

LeonhartFour posted...

I think they mention this at one point (it's not really a spoiler or anything), but the Midnight Channel appears clearer to some people than others. It can also appear clearer or blurrier from day to day.

Well, they watched it on the same day, but that is a fair point about some people having an easier time. I definitely didn't hear that anywhere yet.
---

Yeah, I think they don't talk about it until later, but there's actually a reason for it being that way.
---