Board 8 > Umineko playthrough topic 3

(+) Yeah! (+)

Another cliffhanger, fuck, what happened to Battler and Beatrice, stop piling up the mysteries, at least give some closure here

Bern and Lambda consider Beatrice their toy, and wants her to never win. They are on Battler side but get portrayed as the bad guys? So Beatrice is the good guy then and Battler is going to side with her against the other two next?

With how the characters are developing, I can definitely see the story go in that direction. It will however take a lot of convincing for me (+Battler) to see her in a different light.

The menu image is now the Golden Land. I get more tips and a music box.

I love the music in this game. Now I know the name of the songs, let's see.... goldenslaughterer, dead_angle, answer, worldenddominator, and a couple of japanese named tracks from episode 3 that I can't type here.

I think my favourite one is dreamendischarger, first played during the ep4 Tea Party. There are some other previous tracks mixed in there, very fitting for a 'final' confrontation.

Ah fuck, I clicked on the songs too fast and the game crashed again

Checking out the tips, Battler... went to hell embracing the witch? I take it to mean Beatrice dragged Battler into the Golden Land with her, and that's why the menu is now the Golden Land?

There's also a section on witches and magical items, pretty useful. I still don't understand what is witch-Maria and where she even came from.

Who is Chiester 556, I was messing around, found and resurrected her. Gave me the last two Steam achievements. She never appeared in the game

There's nothing more to do here.
Which means I have finished episode 4, and thus the entire Question Arc!
The playtime is.... 180 hours. I had left it running when updating this topic or doing other things at home, so it's more like 120 hours. This is easily the longest VN I've played and I'm only halfway through! For comparison, my next longest VN was CLANNAD at 101 hours, and that was the whole game.

I've been talking to myself for quite a while now, some discussion would be welcome. Uhhh

What's your favourite track over these 4 episodes?
How long did you play for episodes 1-4?

Oh hey, I've been away for some time due to very busy weeks at work but I am very glad you're continuing at a steady pace!

Favorite track is hard to say...but I've always been partial to the more serene tracks like Hope and Towering Cloud in Summer. They bring back good memories of getting to know the Umineko characters as they arrive at Rokkenjima...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZd41NMBM4s" data-time="

As for how long...uhh, 120+ sounds right. I took long to finish EP4 because of how much it dragged, especially in the early parts.
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Yeah those early parts dragged down EP4 as a whole. Without them it would easily be the best episode, I'm not sure where to put it now.

Some bad news, this playthrough is going on hiatus. Next week I'm going on a vacation which will last 2 weeks and when I come back I will have to take care of things at work. I don't know when I can start EP5, there isn't a fixed schedule but optimistically I'm gone for at least a month, until late July. In the meantime I will give my thoughts on this episode + rank them as always.

As for the character rankings... well there are so many I've lost count how many I am supposed to rank. Tbh doing it every episode is pretty exhausting. If say, 2 or 3 of you following the topic still want to see it, I'll keep doing it, maybe by spreading it out throughout the month.

Hey, that's fine. Have fun! Where are you vacationing?

As for character rankings I think it's fine if you just put the ranking without write ups except for the characters you feel compelled to write about.

And good news for @Dels , he can gain some ground now.
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yeah i started getting very brief with characters who haven't changed much

you can read everything in mine up to the end of topic 4 btw if you want. topic 5 is for chapter 5 and im only partway through, i haven't had much time either recently.

I will be off to a few countries in Europe. Since I have my phone I can continue with rankings slowly

Right I first want to talk about Beatrice's behaviour during the 4th game. It should be pretty obvious that she is intentionally throwing the game. A few things point to this:
-Giving up during the 'final battle' before Battler told her not to
-Making an tough appearance after that, but easily accepting Battler's arguments when she can absolutely counter it
-Not moving the bodies, or creating locked rooms, etc after killing the people on Rokkenjima like she did in the other games, allowing Battler to explain it easily.

Seemingly this change comes from her finding out Battler's origins and deeming him unfit as an opponent, but the last point suggests that Beatrice already planned this at the beginning of the 4th game, latest, so...is it also part of her plan? I don't have a clue what that was about.

Why would she do this? My theory is that she is trying to trick Bernkatsel and Lambdadelta. She is aware that she is being played and treated like a toy (I think there's a monologue about that) and is trying to do something about it. In the ???? part, Bern and Lambda believe that Beatrice was tricking Battler like she did in episode 3, but probably.... these two are the ones getting tricked. This would however make episode 3.... an act within an act? She tricked Battler, but the target was Bern and Lambda all along, and she had this planned out even earlier? What am I even talking about.

Finally, what even is Beatrice's objective here? My first thought is that she wanted to get killed so she wouldn't have to be controlled anymore, but at the end it was said she embraced Battler and took him to the Golden Land....? I think she has some sort of goal and Battler is unknowingly part of it. But I can't guess what she is trying to achieve, and how she is going to achieve that.

I didn't see the new topic. Will post stuff later. I'm in the middle of my work week, so not much time to post.

But Raka, come post in my topic too! I haven't see anyone in ages. :P
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I wrote a long rant
The tldr version is that i am guessing Beatrice knows that she is in a bad position and is doing something about it. The game with Battler (he doesnt know anything) is probably part of it. I cant say when this started or to what end though.

Been thinking for a while on how to talk about episode 4. Its got some very high and very low points, so I think the best way is to list out what I like and dislike.

Dislikes:
-Maria and Ange backstory. More depth to characters is always good. This however went on for wayyy too long and I came close to falling asleep a few times. I dont need an hour+ long exposition on how Marias life sucked, or how Anges life sucked, or why magic is awesome, or whatever life lesson I cant remember. Worst of all is when they stand in the same place and drone on the same topic over and over.
-Jumping around multiple timelines and versions of characters without knowing which is which, confusing the hell out of me as I try to make sense of their thoughts and actions. Worst offender is Maria who was in a book, then in 1986, is dead, then alive, becomes a psycho, and reverts back after that....
-Ange dying. Its a waste of a character if she doesnt return after going through all that shit. I imagine she will come back sooner or later, she hasnt even resolved the threads in 1998.
-The whole game being Kinzo killing whoever he pleases and a couple of fights, there is almost nothing to solve. Battler didnt even have to try. There might a narrative reason though.

Likes:
-Jessica and George fighting, and the prison escape. These arent the mysteries I wanted but nonetheless fun and exciting with some great comedic moments (Loser flags)
-Some of the 1998 parts where Ange meets some relatives of the dead, the money and letters were very interesting.
-The final battle between Battler and Beatrice. Might be my single favourite moment of the game so far. Music, dialogue, sprites etc are all very fitting. Really got me excited and pumped all the way.
-Couple of other parts I havent mentioned. They are all pretty good.

I was so ready to rank episode 4 at the very bottom after it put me through multiple snoozefests. But it managed to turn it around and win me back with some great sequences, particularly that godly Tea Party. After balancing it out I think this is my current episode ranking:

1. Episode 3
2. Episode 4
3. Episode 1
4. Episode 2

Something I want to know is how everyone thinks of the Maria flashbacks... I hope Im not the only one hating on them.

My opinion on EP4 was I think closer to yours at first, but has shifted pretty drastically over time. The Maria flashback and 1998 parts are some of my favorite parts, whereas I've come to find most of the magical fighting pretty tiresome.

The rose garden battle is still the best part of the first 4 episodes though.
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Ep 4 is pretty hard to rank due to the reasons you listed. Sometimes I rank it as a whole, sometimes I unashamedly rank the first part and second part separately. When I was doing my reread, I was sorta dreading Ep 4 because I remembered it being painful the first time, but it was actually tolerable the second time around.
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I like the concept of the Maria flashbacks (and Ange story) but unfortunately they took too long and therefore became sleep-inducing. Worst part was whenever the seven sisters were involved, because they're totally worthless characters.

Oh yeah, here's Beatrice's riddle from the end of Ep 4 if you wanna try it.

Ushiromiya Battler, I will now kill you. And right now, there is no one other than you on this island. The only one on this island is you. Nothing outside the island can interfere You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. Yet I am here, now, and am about to kill you. Who am I?"
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No luck with the riddle. Have to admit Im not very good at this. Might give it another try when it comes up later.

i mean, i didn't have a clue either. honestly, if she hadn't said "i am not you", i'd have just decided battler was beatrice in some weird meta twist and that was that.

Wow Dels filled up an entire topic in less than a week and is still going

what can i say, i want answers

I was checking through the archives for my last ranking and apparently 10 out of 50 pages are archived?

Ill do a head count
Original 18 people
Beatrice
Bern
Lambda
Virgilia
Ronove
Gaap
Ass sisters
Bunny girls
Ange
Sakutarou

Others are not that relevant
So 28 people to rank (not going to separate the sisters)

handsomeboy2012 posted...

I was checking through the archives for my last ranking and apparently 10 out of 50 pages are archived?

welp, turns out I'm a big dummy and that topic was the first victim of the bug that ate dels's topic 5 for a bit! since it's fallen off the live forums I replaced it with the cache from that one site you can't talk about here that rhymes with Fog Rocksit feels a bit silly to be uploading a version of those pages that's still on the internet, true, but it's better than nothing at least, for the sake of having all the topics available to review in one place
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29. Kinzo
Fuck off

28. Evatrice
No

27. Lambdadelta
Im sooo evil, wow

26. Chiester Sisters
The contrast between being superweapons, and being bullied by Kinzo/needing pampering by Virgilia is a bit funny. Barely characters otherwise.

25. Seven sisters of purgatory
Yeah theyre not only killing machines, but still pretty one-dimensional. Mammon is a bit better. Doesnt help that they are heavily featured in the worst parts of this episode

24. Nanjo
Useless

23. Kumasawa
Where does she go from here now that shes is not Virgilia?

22. Maria
Evil Maria is always rock bottom or somewhere close. This episode showed what she was like before getting corrupted by Beatrice and all the abuse, an actual child who is innocent and forgiving to a fault. Maria-in-a-book is also nice for being more mature with less crying or uuus. However her optimism is rather unrealistic, a normal kid would never take it so well, and it only further perpetuates the problem. If I just rank her good side she would probably in the middle. So I think 22nd is a suitable placement if I consider her whole character.

21. Genji
Zero presence here. Still dont like his indifference.

20. Kanon
A bit better without all the whining

19. Gouda
His arc is coming soon... probably.

18. Gaap
For a great demon her powers sure are lame. Making wormholes and barely able to beat George... really? She doesn't really stand out among the huge cast except for the clothing which I'm not a fan of.

17. Krauss
Slowly redeeming himself. I find it funny how tries to keep up appearances even in a jail cell. That punch scene was kind of bs. Thought this is his arc but guess not.

16. Sakutarou
The purest thing in the world. But I dont like hearing Uryu over and over again. Im so sorry.

15. Bernkatsel
Its nice to have a witch thats not evil or screwing people over.... nevermind. I had an inkling shes just like the others which is not what I want to see.

14. Virgilia
Why does her profile still say shes a good witch?
Also gapgapgapgap

13. Rosa
This is a tricky one.
First of all, I dont buy that she truly despises Maria.
If she hates her daughter that much she wouldnt have gone through the effort of making her a present, or calling her at night, or reading books with her; instead she could have done the same as Eva to Ange (putting aside finances). Yeah she might be putting up appearances but its not like Maria would complain if she did anything less. The rant after she died in this episode is more of a spur of the moment.
BUT boy is she a terrible parent. I think all the conflict stems from her lifestyle being complete shambles. Lying and neglecting and blaming her daughter and losing her head when things go wrong... I can symphazize with her being an emontional train wreck but that doesnt mean I (or anyone) agree with her actions.
This might be ranked a bit high. I just like more complexity to characters as long as they arent a bag of contradictions. Too bad her showing this episode doesnt do her any favours.

I didn't like Maria and Ange's flashbacks either. Very soap opera-like with all the bullying wah wahs.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

14. Virgilia
Why does her profile still say shes a good witch?

Well, relatively speaking...
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12. Eva
Child abuse is bad. I dunno why she is above Rosa, maybe I didn't actually see her beat up Ange.

11. Natsuhi
This is what happens when you get all the attention in episode 1

10. Hideyoshi
A very nice guy. And... that's all.

9. Rudolf
Not dying first would be a good start. He's got so much potential.

8. Shannon
Uhhh she's pretty much the same as before with some more power ups.

7. Ange
When she appeared at the end of episode 3 I got excited. She is going to help Battler out and might be a second protagonist in Umineko. That kind of happened but not exactly that way that I hoped. She went through - and made me go through - many of the parts I disliked about this episode... all just to drag Beatrice back, motivate Battler and then die? Feels like she's being used as a plot device. At least give her more interactions with Battler.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Ange quite a lot, she takes after Battler (who is awesome) in a lot of ways, but with a more cynical side and doesn't mess around. Jumping off a building twice is badass as well. It's amazing really how she held up with that kind of childhood which speaks of her mental strength. However being in some bad parts and not utilized that well knocked her down a peg.

6. Jessica
My first impression of her way back in episode 1 was what she is like this episode. Took her long enough to stop being a wimp and finally man up (woman up?) to the effect of jumping up ~10 places.

5. Kyrie
She cool and smart and all, but like everyone else that escaped the prison, died pathetically without much of a chance to fight. The point here I think is that even the brightest human around can do jack shit against magical beings.

As you can see I'm almost done with ranking characters
Think I might start episode 5 sometime next week.

4. George
Every episode there's someone that stands out for me and he fits the bill this time (Ange is new and Maria is... Maria). I never guessed he was the type of person to not only talk shit but do so pretty eloquently. Being able to fight is good too though it isn't that special anymore, half the family can do that. Not hitting Gaap is pretty stupid, I'm sure he can hurt her a lot before asking where the prisoners were if not for his pride getting in the way.

3. Beatrice
I can't get a good read on her. Most of the time she is like the usual. Then she gets upset at Battler for a weird reason? And shuts herself up until she got dragged out and forced to play the game? And what the hell with the ending part? I don't even know what she is anymore. All I can say now is she is very interesting and entertaining.

2. Ronove
I love the guy. Please give him more screentime.

1. Battler
After sitting at #2 for so long he finally makes it. His development and performance in the "final" battle is enough to justify putting him here, and there's no need to give a long explanation why, really.

Finished character rankings. That took way too long. Anyway I am pretty certain I can start episode 5 on Friday or Saturday, it's been a while and I'm looking forward to it.

If there's anything you think I can do/write to make the topic more interesting feel free to suggest them, no promises tho

Wow that's very high for George lol.

Also, hyped for Episode 5! I guess there's nothing in particular other than maybe have the updates a bit more regular if your schedule permits. Then again it's your life and playthrough.
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Going to start once I finish downloading and patching
Just a heads up, I'm going to be very busy in the coming months and it will be almost impossible for me to play this as quickly as before.

Here we go again
'Chiru' is added to the title... I don't know what it means.
I think the cliff in the menu was where human-Beatrice fell off back in episode 3. Like so many things it still hasn't bee addressed

END of the golden witch? Didn't think this would come up for ep 5
I'm really interested in how it plays out from here, every episode was a new 'game' but this could be different

Shit that was loud, for a moment I thought it's yet another new game, seems like they were only flashbacks.

Looks like they're in the Golden Land and Beatrice is in some sort of stupor. What is even going on here, isn't Battler supposed to kill her once and for all and go home? And what about that final question?

What I'm getting here... is that Beatrice is forced to play the game until she either wins or loses. Last time she threw the game, so it didn't count as losing, and she can't die, and Battler didn't actually win.

Oh and Beatrice looks pretty good with her hair down.

The more I read the more it looks like Beatrice wasn't the one who started all this. The other two witches are so invested in this they look more like the players instead of the fans.

I don't think I like how Bernkatsel is a also a piece of shit. Unlike Lambda I don't think there are any signs until the late in episode 4 so it kind of looks like the writer decided she should be evil right then and there. It feels very jarring to me.