Current Events > Have you ever done acupuncture before?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I just did it for the first time, interesting experience
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No, Im open to it tho. Needles don't bother me much.
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The insertion was painless for the most part, I barely noticed when they were being put in.
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I hate needles

Do they stick one in your pp?
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I was offered cupping the other day. No to that and this I say. Im sure its great and all but I dont wanna.

Zurkon posted...

What exactly does it do to you? Do you feel better after getting it done?

It is *supposed* to alleviate the pain in my arm on a long-term basis. I'm going to be doing it 4 more times the next 2 weeks and then see if there is any improvement.

So far, I do feel a bit less pain. There's a specific area that I think they should put needles in next time.
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Vol2tex posted...

The insertion was painless for the most part, I barely noticed when they were being put in.

That's what she said after me and my boy ran a train *puts hand up for high five*
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Lost_All_Senses posted...

Vol2tex posted...

The insertion was painless for the most part, I barely noticed when they were being put in.

That's what she said after me and my boy ran a train *puts hand up for high five*

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I tried it once, Im surprised I havent gone back. I dont think it necessarily fixed anything for me but it was definitely relaxing.
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No, I do not partake in any alternative medicine.
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Ex-Kefiroth posted...

No. It's a bunch of hocus-pocus folk medicine bullshit.

For me it was like getting a massage. But yeah when we were in the waiting room this other customer was excitedly talking to the receptionist about how during her session she had felt her chakras opening up, lol.
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Shablagoo posted...

Ex-Kefiroth posted...

No. It's a bunch of hocus-pocus folk medicine bullshit.

For me it was like getting a massage. But yeah when we were in the waiting room this other customer was excitedly talking to the receptionist about how during her session she had felt her chakras opening up, lol.

Yeah I didn't feel any of those things and it didn't really relax me either, but I will say that my arm has felt a bit better. That's all I want.
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Vol2tex posted...

Yeah I didn't feel any of those things and it didn't really relax me either, but I will say that my arm has felt a bit better. That's all I want.

I remember feeling relaxed but it was probably just as much the setting and personal attention I was receiving as it was anything else. Nice to hear that it helped your arm, even if only a bit!
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Shablagoo posted...

Vol2tex posted...

Yeah I didn't feel any of those things and it didn't really relax me either, but I will say that my arm has felt a bit better. That's all I want.

I remember feeling relaxed but it was probably just as much the setting and personal attention I was receiving as it was anything else. Nice to hear that it helped your arm, even if only a bit!

I am curious to see how it will be after the 5 sessions. I will make another topic about it in 2 weeks.
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I came to say that it helped stopped my vertigo attacks and I haven't had them for 7 years already. Western medicine couldn't do that for me.
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GigaSPX posted...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I came to say that it helped stopped my vertigo attacks and I haven't had them for 7 years already. Western medicine couldn't do that for me.

How many sessions did you do?
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@Vol2tex posted...

GigaSPX posted...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I came to say that it helped stopped my vertigo attacks and I haven't had them for 7 years already. Western medicine couldn't do that for me.

How many sessions did you do?

It's hard to remember exactly but I think no more than 10 visits. The acupuncturist I went to is 3 hours from where I live so I had to make every visit count. It was important regardless because veritgo was a newly acquired problem that was heavily affecting my lifestyle. After doing acupuncture, the problem never came back again ever since.
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Sounds like you simply had a short-term inner ear imbalance, and that it would have gone away on its own in the same period of time that the acupuncture took place.

But what do I know. You can go on believing that witchdoctor remedies are legitimate because of a total coincidence for all I care.
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Paragon21XX posted...

Sounds like you simply had a short-term inner ear imbalance, and that it would have gone away on its own in the same period of time that the acupuncture took place.

But what do I know. You can go on believing that witchdoctor remedies are legitimate because of a total coincidence for all I care.

For an issue like mine, my only other options are physical therapy (minor improvement after 4 years) or surgery (which will likely cost $30,000+).
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I think people are misinformed about them. Yeah, there are bad ones but the same can be said of doctors in any field.
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Paragon21XX posted...

Sounds like you simply had a short-term inner ear imbalance, and that it would have gone away on its own in the same period of time that the acupuncture took place.

But what do I know. You can go on believing that witchdoctor remedies are legitimate because of a total coincidence for all I care.

Sure thing, tell me why a prominent ear, nose, and throat medical center in my area couldn't just tell me that and only prescribed medication that would screw up my urination control? I went for several visits and they gave me no solutions to my issues.

There's absolutely more than just acupuncture and these "witch practices" existed longer than Western modern medicine. Not all of the methods are viable, but some absolutely work. I'm not here to convince everyone, especially hard headed people like you, but I'm just sharing my successful experiences.
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I haven't personally but I knew a guy who had it prescribed and he had acupuncture "earrings" or w/e and he said they worked out pretty well.
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GigaSPX posted...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions

You can have your opinion, everyone else can have the consistent body empirical research that have failed to demonstrate that acupuncture is any more effective than a placebo at treating actual medical conditions
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JACKBUTTMOMMY posted...

Hexenherz posted...

I haven't personally but I knew a guy who had it prescribed and he had acupuncture "earrings" or w/e and he said they worked out pretty well.

Oh yeah, there is lots of support for daith (sp?) piercings and acupuncture for migraines. If it were me I would do the latter though, as its not permanent and the migraines may be due to a cause or resolve better through other treatment options.

yeah he got it for shoulder pain, was still getting it fixed up but it was a temporary relief option.
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Frolex posted...

GigaSPX posted...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions

You can have your opinion, everyone else can have the consistent body empirical research that have failed to demonstrate that acupuncture is any more effective than a placebo at treating actual medical conditions

Placebos can still be en effective treatment. It got rid of his vertigo. If it works, it works.
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LordRazziel posted...

Placebos can still be en effective treatment.

Advocating for people invest time and money into sham medical practices because "placebos sometimes make people feel better" is extremely irresponsible and beyond reprehensible. For every alleged clinical use that acupuncture has, there are countless alternative options that are not only cheaper, but have a significincalty more demonstrably clinically provn track record of actually treating their ailments. Hell, you could just spend 50 cents on a pack of tic tacs if you believe so strongly in the power of placebos
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JACKBUTTMOMMY posted...

Thats strange since I know neurologists who work with acupuncturists for conditions like TBI, PTSD, anxiety, migraines and probably more.

Do you have even a single piece of peer reviewed research that establishes acupuncture has demonstrably positive effects on even one of those conditions?
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JACKBUTTMOMMY posted...

No. Im not a database.

Neither am I. I just like to at least make a nominal effort to familiarize myself with the empirical research on a topic before I start making broad claims about it. Also, google scholar is free. If there's even a modicum of clinical support for acupuncture, shouldn't take long to type "acupuncture effectiveness" and get at least one study to back up your claim.
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Frolex posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Placebos can still be en effective treatment.

Advocating for people invest time and money into sham medical practices because "placebos sometimes make people feel better" is extremely irresponsible and beyond reprehensible. For every alleged clinical use that acupuncture has, there are countless alternative options that are not only cheaper, but have a significincalty more demonstrably clinically provn track record of actually treating their ailments. Hell, you could just spend 50 cents on a pack of tic tacs if you believe so strongly in the power of placebos

Not every acupuncturist is changing tons of money. Seeing a therapist or neurologist is pretty damn expensive. If the acupuncturist is charging thousands of dollars, I would consider that to be bad, charlton or sincere. I also think there needs to be much stricter regulations on these practitioners in many areas. In some states, you can go to a 6 week "school" and officially earn the title of Doctor. That shouldn't happen.
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LordRazziel posted...

Not every acupuncturist is changing tons of money. Seeing a therapist or neurologist is pretty damn expensive. If the acupuncturist is charging thousands of dollars, I would consider that to be bad, charlton or sincere. I also think there needs to be much stricter regulations these practitioners in many areas. In some states, you can go to a 6 week "school" and officially earn the title of Doctor. That shouldn't happen.

Any acupunucturist charging more than the cost of a vial of sugar water is a charlatan. I mean really even then they still would be, but at least your claim of "some acupuncture is only, a marginal violation of basic human and medical ethics" would actually hold some weight.
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Frolex posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Not every acupuncturist is changing tons of money. Seeing a therapist or neurologist is pretty damn expensive. If the acupuncturist is charging thousands of dollars, I would consider that to be bad, charlton or sincere. I also think there needs to be much stricter regulations these practitioners in many areas. In some states, you can go to a 6 week "school" and officially earn the title of Doctor. That shouldn't happen.

Any acupunucturist charging more than the cost of a vial of sugar water is a charlatan. I mean really even then they still would be, but at least your claim of "some acupuncture is only, a marginal violation of basic human and medical ethics" would actually hold some weight.

Charlatan has the connotation that it is intentional. Many medications that psychiatrist prescribe have been shown not to do much better than placebo. Just going to see a professional has been show to have positive effects. Sometimes, if other treatments aren't working, I don't see a problem with tricking the brain.
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JACKBUTTMOMMY posted...

Oh Im familiar. I also use PubMed and other resources. Not sure how factual claims that are easily verifiable are considered broad claims. Just because I dont have a particular source I hand doesnt mean i havent read them before. Like I said Ill be back - if you want an intellectual discussion. Given that you seem to know how to research I just dont know why youre not already familiar with them or incapable of doing it yourself. And I dont appreciate the attitude - although I do appreciate your passion for healing others and wanting them to avoid false treatments.

If you are really looking to shut people down, I recommend The Sacred Plant. Their organization is essentially cult like and filled with misinformation, blanket statements, and generalizations. Ive argued with them myself about such matters.

Anyway, until later, be well.

If they were actually easily verifiable, you would have done so by now. Also, I adore the attempt to reframe my arguments as being ideologically motivated and wilfully ignorant of whatever "truth" you insist exists but can't actually prove. And I could give to shits about what you think of my "attitude". I'll take being a big ol stinky head to someone on the internet over propping up and legitimizing an industry that serves no benefit to the world other than to separate the most desperate in society from their few precious dollars.
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LordRazziel posted...

Charlatan has the connotation that it is intentional. Many medications that psychiatrist prescribe have been shown not to do much better than placebo. Just going to see a professional has been show to have positive effects. Sometimes, if other treatments aren't working, I don't see a problem with tricking the brain.

1.That's a pretty weasely claim. What portion of medication being prescribed by psychiatrists have been shown to have equal effictiveness to placebos. Could it be a handful psychiatrists that are prescribing ineffective medications? or is this a systemic problem in the field? be specific. Unlike acupuncture, there is a significant body of research that attests to the efficacy of psychiatry in treating illness. 2. There absolutely is a problem with proscribing sham medical practices as legitimate treatments. Not only does it have the potentiality to dissuade patients from seeking actually effective treatments, but it legitimizes it as form of treatment to be regarded as equal to clinically proven methods.
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Frolex posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Charlatan has the connotation that it is intentional. Many medications that psychiatrist prescribe have been shown not to do much better than placebo. Just going to see a professional has been show to have positive effects. Sometimes, if other treatments aren't working, I don't see a problem with tricking the brain.

1.That's a pretty weasely claim. What portion of medication being prescribed by psychiatrists have been shown to have equal effictiveness to placebos. Could it be a handful psychiatrists that are prescribing ineffective medications? or is this a systemic problem in the field? be specific. Unlike acupuncture, there is a significant body of research that attests to the efficacy of psychiatry in treating illness. 2. There absolutely is a problem with proscribing sham medical practices as legitimate treatments. Not only does it have the potentiality to dissuade patients from seeking actually effective treatments, but it legitimizes it as form of treatment to be regarded as equal to clinically proven methods.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-debate-is-over-antidepressants-do-work-better-than-placebo/

I just looked it up and found this. It had been a while since I looked into all this. I guess they've settled it. It's a matter of improperly prescribing them, which seems to be very common. So, there are still many people on antidepressants, that are only experiencing the placebo effect.

I said after traditional treatments aren't working. Would it be better to let them continue to have symptoms?
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JACKBUTTMOMMY posted...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5294361/

What you gave me here is a study that purports a dubious link to therapeutic benefits in rats. What you did not do is demonstrate the actual clinical outcomes of patients subjected to acupuncture as a form of treatment. I'll spare you the time of trying to find that data by linking you a comprehensive literature review of those clinical studies.
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD007700.pub3/full

and while I'm at it, here are links to the research reviews for other conditions you mentioned.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28151093
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25254059

Spoiler alert:they all end the same way
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LordRazziel posted...

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-debate-is-over-antidepressants-do-work-better-than-placebo/

I just looked it up and found this. It had been a while since I looked into all this. I guess they've settled it. It's a matter of improperly prescribing them, which seems to be very common. So, there are still many people on antidepressants, that are only experiencing the placebo effect.

I said after traditional treatments aren't working. Would it be better to let them continue to have symptoms?

No. You keep trying different combinations of treatments and medication until you find something that does work. You don't knowingly send you patient off to spend their money on a placebo.
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Frolex posted...

LordRazziel posted...

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-debate-is-over-antidepressants-do-work-better-than-placebo/

I just looked it up and found this. It had been a while since I looked into all this. I guess they've settled it. It's a matter of improperly prescribing them, which seems to be very common. So, there are still many people on antidepressants, that are only experiencing the placebo effect.

I said after traditional treatments aren't working. Would it be better to let them continue to have symptoms?

No. You keep trying different combinations of treatments and medication until you find something that does work. You don't knowingly send you patient off to spend their money on a placebo.

It seems, in many cases, they already prescribe placebos.
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